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I don't understand one thing

EQAbnerEQAbner Marietta, GAPosts: 25Member Common

If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

 

I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

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Comments

  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common
    Originally posted by EQAbner

    If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

     

    I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

    There are sorta levels.  They're called "Tiers".   They're just not based on XP.  They're based on different conditions, the example that was given that to "Tier Up", you may need to collect a certain set of armor for your class.   Obviously collecting classes, gear, etc. will be goals in the game too.

     

    It's pretty vague at the moment ,but that's what we know.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

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  • GiffenGiffen Lacey, WAPosts: 268Member Uncommon

    Although there are no levels there are Tiers for each class you acquire.  I believe these Tiers go to 4 or 5.  The way it seems to me is you have to level up the Tiers for a class, you can tier up all classes you acquire and you don't have to actually play the class you are Tiering up.  They mentioned that for a warrior it might be required to acquire all pieces of a certain armor set to tier up from one tier to the next.

     

    On top of that it appears you can level up your class abilities or maybe it's the weapon abilities.  They mentioned something like you gain points (sort of like AA points) over time and you can spend them in abilities to increase their power.

     

    So there is "some" leveling/progression...it just seems like it is very small...sort of like if you started EQ2 and were already top level...then the only way to increase power is to tier up items and abilities...but no more leveling.

     

    Also they mentioned that areas of the world will be designed for a certain Tier...(sort of like level based zones) where if you aren't close to that Tier in the class you are playing you will have problems.

  • dandurindandurin Santa Clara, CAPosts: 493Member

    They stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better".

     

    Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor.

     

    A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.

     

     

  • quseioquseio stevens, PAPosts: 222Member
    SEEMS like its new for the sake of new not being any better i want5 to get more powerful not do things differently
  • SuraknarSuraknar Montreal, QCPosts: 824Member
    Originally posted by EQAbner

    If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

     

    I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

    You get better by engaging in better challenges.

    Levelng up a character may make the character better compared to a lower level character, but does it really make the player better?

    With this system you are invited to become a better player, and as a reward you have more options opening to you to further customize your character according to your emergent play style which in turn permit you to become an even better player and engage in more challenging adventure.

    This is actually a feature I am looking forward to with EQN.

     

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    image
    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard

  • ChakaCanChakaCan San Antonio, TXPosts: 22Member
    Originally posted by dandurin

    They stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better".

     

    Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor.

     

    A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.

     

     

    I would love a game where new players can run around with veterans!!!  I hope this is true.

  • NadiliNadili Grand Forks, BCPosts: 197Member
    They did say there would be tierd areas or mobs so you can't venture anywhere since I would expect you would be attacked by a tierd mob higher than your current tier.

    image
  • DaakenDaaken New York, NYPosts: 158Member
    Originally posted by EQAbner

    If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

     

    I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

    Build a world, live in that world, create memories that'll last a lifetime, have fun, collect phat lewts, raid epic bosses, explore anywhere, be known for being the most ruthless Shadow Knight/Tempest on my server, Kill People I think don't deserve to breathe the same air as me. 

     

    Those are just some of the goals for me when the game launches.

    Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.

    Me: So you want something like EQN

    Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.

    Me: Double Facepalm.

  • EQAbnerEQAbner Marietta, GAPosts: 25Member Common
    Originally posted by dandurin

    They stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better".

     

    Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor.

     

    A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.

     

     

    I just don't get it. I can play for years and be no better than someone who started yesterday? This makes no sense to me. What exactly is the point of playing? What is the goal for your character? Why work your butt off if the guy that started this morning is no different? (not at a disadvantage)

  • SahrhynSahrhyn Atlanta, GAPosts: 49Member
    Originally posted by Daaken
    Originally posted by EQAbner

    If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

     

    I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

    Build a world, live in that world, create memories that'll last a lifetime, have fun, collect phat lewts, raid epic bosses, explore anywhere, be known for being the most ruthless Shadow Knight/Tempest on my server, Kill People I think don't deserve to breathe the same air as me. 

     

    Those are just some of the goals for me when the game launches.

    I second reaching those noble goals good Daaken - tho I fear we are on opposite ends of the Knight's virtues.  Rest assured I plan to crush underfoot evil where it lives.. and turn it back to hell from whence it came.

  • EQAbnerEQAbner Marietta, GAPosts: 25Member Common
    What good is phat lewt if it makes your character no better than someone new? Why aspire to collect it?
  • Bad.dogBad.dog Belleville, ONPosts: 1,108Member
    Originally posted by Suraknar
    Originally posted by EQAbner

    If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

     

    I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

    You get better by engaging in better challenges.

    Levelng up a character may make the character better compared to a lower level character, but does it really make the player better?

    With this system you are invited to become a better player, and as a reward you have more options opening to you to further customize your character according to your emergent play style which in turn permit you to become an even better player and engage in more challenging adventure.

    This is actually a feature I am looking forward to with EQN.

     

    You will be playing a skill based game not a gear based game ... to get better you actually have to improve your skills not just farm gear

  • TygranirTygranir Colordo Springs, COPosts: 741Member
    Originally posted by EQAbner
    Originally posted by dandurin

    They stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better".

     

    Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor.

     

    A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.

     

     

    I just don't get it. I can play for years and be no better than someone who started yesterday? This makes no sense to me. What exactly is the point of playing? What is the goal for your character? Why work your butt off if the guy that started this morning is no different? (not at a disadvantage)

    Maybe you could just have fun playing the game? Odd concept, I know.

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  • EQAbnerEQAbner Marietta, GAPosts: 25Member Common
    Originally posted by Bad.dog
    Originally posted by Suraknar
    Originally posted by EQAbner

    If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

     

    I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

    You get better by engaging in better challenges.

    Levelng up a character may make the character better compared to a lower level character, but does it really make the player better?

    With this system you are invited to become a better player, and as a reward you have more options opening to you to further customize your character according to your emergent play style which in turn permit you to become an even better player and engage in more challenging adventure.

    This is actually a feature I am looking forward to with EQN.

     

    You will be playing a skill based game not a gear based game ... to get better you actually have to improve your skills not just farm gear

    When you say skills I assume you mean in-game character skill rather than human playing abilities. That is essentially leveling a character to be better and at less of a disadvantage than someone who is new. 

     

    I am not complaining about anything. I just want to understand.

  • VhayneVhayne none, CAPosts: 546Member Common

    Try to picture Minecraft and the different sets of gear based on material.  Stone, Iron, Diamond, etc.  Those are "Tiers", diamond being the highest.  So to adventure into their higher "tier" content, you need to have acquired appropriately tiered gear. 

    Also, I don't believe I have seen them mention how many tiers there will be.  We would assume it's like 1-5 or so.  But one of the devs mentioned that the surface tier (we would expect to be tier 1) in a zone such as Lavastorm might be like Tier 3 or 4 starting out.  And as you go deeper of course, the tiers would increase in difficulty. 

    This could be endless, and could forever increase with the addition of new zones and content.  In other words, Tiers are not necessarily directly associated with "depth level".

  • evianwaterevianwater New Braunfels, TXPosts: 308Member

    I'm not really on board with this...if it was more like UO maybe. Requiring a set of gear to advance a "tier" ? That just sounds like a different type of time sink.

     

    I'm trying to withhold my judgement until there is more info however. Progression is kind of a necessary part of an mmo if you want any kind of retention. And no that doesn't just mean getting "better" at your class and/or getting new armor.

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by EQAbner

    If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

     

    I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

    I guess you havent played an sandbox MMO before (no offence here)...

    There will be pretty much a lot of things to do... craft items, collect items, explore the world, raise the skills, build a houses/cities, pick flowers, kill the duchebags in world PvP and destroy their houses/cities (if they implement any, of course) etc.

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

  • EQAbnerEQAbner Marietta, GAPosts: 25Member Common
    Originally posted by Tygranir
    Originally posted by EQAbner
    Originally posted by dandurin

    They stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better".

     

    Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor.

     

    A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.

     

     

    I just don't get it. I can play for years and be no better than someone who started yesterday? This makes no sense to me. What exactly is the point of playing? What is the goal for your character? Why work your butt off if the guy that started this morning is no different? (not at a disadvantage)

    Maybe you could just have fun playing the game? Odd concept, I know.

    Please don't troll me. I just want to understand. This is foreign to me.

     

    In my games now, my main goal is to level up and get better gear. This in turn also allows me to see new sights as well. 

  • AzothAzoth montreal, QCPosts: 720Member Uncommon

    Well the thing is we don't know yet.  You unlock classes and then can mix some of said class abilities. But how exactly that will work is unknown. Can you level those abilities, or/and do you learn new ones.

    Classes restrict you to certain armor, leather cloths plate etc. So I am guessing you cannot mix warrior/mage type since they use different type of armor.

    But ya.. not much info to go on.

  • EQAbnerEQAbner Marietta, GAPosts: 25Member Common
    Originally posted by dzoni87
    Originally posted by EQAbner

    If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

     

    I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

    I guess you havent played an sandbox MMO before (no offence here)...

    There will be pretty much a lot of things to do... craft items, collect items, explore the world, raise the skills, build a houses/cities, pick flowers, kill the duchebags in world PvP and destroy their houses/cities (if they implement any, of course) etc.

    You are very correct. I have never played a sandbox game or minecraft either. I look forward to playing this new game. I am only trying to wrap my brain around what exactly my in-game goals will be.

     

    Thanks!

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Giffen

    Although there are no levels there are Tiers for each class you acquire.  I believe these Tiers go to 4 or 5.  The way it seems to me is you have to level up the Tiers for a class, you can tier up all classes you acquire and you don't have to actually play the class you are Tiering up.  They mentioned that for a warrior it might be required to acquire all pieces of a certain armor set to tier up from one tier to the next.

     

    On top of that it appears you can level up your class abilities or maybe it's the weapon abilities.  They mentioned something like you gain points (sort of like AA points) over time and you can spend them in abilities to increase their power.

     

    So there is "some" leveling/progression...it just seems like it is very small...sort of like if you started EQ2 and were already top level...then the only way to increase power is to tier up items and abilities...but no more leveling.

     

    Also they mentioned that areas of the world will be designed for a certain Tier...(sort of like level based zones) where if you aren't close to that Tier in the class you are playing you will have problems.

    Hmm, does this mean their is a gear treadmill, just done differently? I thought I read that with gear not giving stats their would be none.

    Also, this sounds similar to old way of keeping you in the "correct" area for your level. If no levels, then they sort player by tier for where you adventure?

    Seems kind of like they are doing things similar to past but just making it seem different. Trying to get my head around these "new" systems/ideas.

  • VhayneVhayne none, CAPosts: 546Member Common

     

     

    In my games now, my main goal is to level up and get better gear. This in turn also allows me to see new sights as well. 

    I think you will be doing exactly that.  You will need higher "tiered" gear to adventure into the higher "tiered" areas.  But the "tiering" up of your character isn't just only with gear, but also with abilities and classes as well.  So acquiring those things will in essence be the same as getting exp or leveling up. 

  • DivonaDivona WellingtonPosts: 175Member

    This except is explain the goal:

    There are no levels in EQN, all of your progression will come from exploring the world, unlocking classes and experimenting with weapons and spells.

    That’s right folks, EQN is bringing back the glory of exploration for purpose in that it’s going to actually ask you to, well, you know explore the world to unlock things. In the example Dave gave us, an adventurer comes upon a farmer who’s being besieged by legions of orcs.  He begs you for help. Or, if you prefer, you can help the orcs take control of the farm and do away with the farmer.  If you help the poor guy out, maybe you’ll find out he’s actually a hedge Wizard and will teach you the art of magic.

    Or perhaps you help out the orcs instead (because orcs are awesome, that’s why) and they’re so impressed with your combat prowess that they’ll teach you how to become a mighty warrior.  There won’t be some golden exclamation point over the farmer’s head, and it won’t be clear from the get go how this whole experience would go down or what your rewards would be. And what’s more is that once you do it, it won’t be there for the next person.

    That’s not to say that others couldn’t learn wizardry or the art of war, but rather this will be EQN’s way of combating guides that lay out exactly how to find and do everything in the game.  Dave and his team want to make sure that the sense of wonder, exploration, and accomplishment are put back into the MMORPG.

    Think of it as collecting skills / equipment like a trading card games.

    From: EverQuest Next Previews: The Future of the MMORPG Lies in Norrath [MMORPG.com]

  • ropeniceropenice Lake Worth, FLPosts: 587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sahrhyn
    Originally posted by Daaken
    Originally posted by EQAbner

    If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

     

    I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

    Build a world, live in that world, create memories that'll last a lifetime, have fun, collect phat lewts, raid epic bosses, explore anywhere, be known for being the most ruthless Shadow Knight/Tempest on my server, Kill People I think don't deserve to breathe the same air as me. 

     

    Those are just some of the goals for me when the game launches.

    I second reaching those noble goals good Daaken - tho I fear we are on opposite ends of the Knight's virtues.  Rest assured I plan to crush underfoot evil where it lives.. and turn it back to hell from whence it came.

    Well said, good knight. I will aspire to make a hefty profit off both your goals and retire to my seaside palace with the best of wine, treasure and decadent delights. I hope this will be possible in game.

  • dzoni87dzoni87 BelgradePosts: 541Member
    Originally posted by EQAbner
    Originally posted by dzoni87
    Originally posted by EQAbner

    If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?

     

    I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).

    I guess you havent played an sandbox MMO before (no offence here)...

    There will be pretty much a lot of things to do... craft items, collect items, explore the world, raise the skills, build a houses/cities, pick flowers, kill the duchebags in world PvP and destroy their houses/cities (if they implement any, of course) etc.

    You are very correct. I have never played a sandbox game or minecraft either. I look forward to playing this new game. I am only trying to wrap my brain around what exactly my in-game goals will be.

     

    Thanks!

    ... and you are the most welcome

    However, the fact is that we saw and know only of like 15% (if even that) of whole game. On the other hand, having played Ultima Online, SWG and a tiny bit of EvE, i can get a somewhat basic understanding of game's progress concept :)

     

    Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
    Waiting for: Pathfinder Online

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