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People hate innovation and change!

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  • BigmamajamaBigmamajama Houston, TXPosts: 198Member

    Agree totally, when I saw a room full of adults cheering when the doe eyed Disney characters made cutesy emotes I almost punched my computer.

    I don't want to play a kids cartoon where I can knock trees down.  Its doesn't get it done for me.

     

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon
    Seriously, people need to stop spreading lies! The freaking developer of the game said that EverQuest Next does have trinity! Quit spreading untrue rumors!

    Smile

  • winterwinter El Paso, TXPosts: 2,276Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by vorpal28
    I just like the fact that it's a very tiny amount of people complaining, rest of us a really looking forward to a new interration of EQ!

    Isn't it funny how everyone always thinks they are a majority :)

  • TygranirTygranir Colordo Springs, COPosts: 741Member
    Originally posted by Bigmamajama

    Agree totally, when I saw a room full of adults cheering when the doe eyed Disney characters made cutesy emotes I almost punched my computer.

    I don't want to play a kids cartoon where I can knock trees down.  Its doesn't get it done for me.

     

    Then this probably isn't the game for you.

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  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,081Member Uncommon

    I agree with the OP but i also think people are giving SOE to much credit for somethings they have yet to see fully working.

     

    Talking about this epic AI, well go play Ryzom with it's migrating npcs and real dynamic seasons that actually effect the world around you.

    Also have a look a Ryzoms Core system http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/05/06/ryzom-is-now-open-source/ sorry Smed but Ryzom has already done it.

    As for the combat i saw at the reveal, sorry but watching this gave me more thrills http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/05/06/ryzom-is-now-open-source/

    Hey, i'm an EQ vet and will try the game but it sure aint doing any justice to the epic IP of EQ.

    At least they didn't turn it into darkfall in norrath though.

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  • StrangerousStrangerous ny, ILPosts: 165Member

    I agree people complain about everything being the same then ignore the truly different games out there, even bashing them, then go line up to buy the next gimmicky recycled game.

     

    However, we have ALL heard the buzzword and hype heard here applied to many games that ended up being the same old thing with a slight repackage that ended up play, feeling, and acting like the same old thing.

     

    Yeah, the only thing that really sounded groundbreaking was their goal in having people say "I was there for the goblin invasion of 2014" or whatever...however...that's on paper.  In execution it could end up being like those Rift events, that were cool at first...but after the 10-100th time it was just meh...

    With EQN I think they are forgetting that everyone will want to be a part of the cool stuff, to do this they are going to have to run it over and over and over...even if they pace it once per month...they would have to put a lot of development into making it really unique...and even then...is this just going to be invasion after invasion after invasion for reasons X, Y, or Z with a new mob skin applied monthly?

     

    Also a lot of people forget what made EQ so long lasting.  Its not popular to state this but its the truth.  The difficulty, unforgiving nature of the game....and the GRIND...back then it wasn't grind it was a difficult level cap...but its what kept people going.

    Theres no levels, no real classes...so I feel group work is going to end up being a tank/healer/ everyone else a dps type that can kinda self support.  I sort of miss the days when you had a large group (more than 5) and you got to choose between a heavy buffer, crowd control mage, off healer, debuffer along with the normal mix, made things interesting...hope that's not dead with this game.

     

    This is all mixed in with a sad trend where people cant even wait to hate on a new game...until they play it...now were hating new games before much is known, seen with ESO too.  Makes me wonder...why do most of you even hang around mmorpgs since they clearly are not the type of games that interest you...plenty of fantastic games out on steam that don't have the current trendy reason to hate a mmorpgs like progression, difficulty, quest, grind ect.

     

     

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by leoo88556
     didn't I mention that they say they WILL NOT remove trinity as a whole?

    There are probably some mixed messages going on.  The panel quote i read is: "The trinity is dead, time to move on."   Seems pretty definite to me.

    The panel, if you watch it again, states there are the same roles you have always had, but - The AI is smart enough to make it near impossible to play those roles as you would have in the past. You can still be a tank, but the AI will not be the simple "Tank is yelling at me, so I will ignore the fact that his buddies are stabbing the shit out of me and just focus on him" type encounter that everyone has grown used to as 'the' way to play. Instead the AI will say "WTF? Who the hell is stabbing me?!" and actively seek to stop the person that is hurting them.

    Healers will still be able to heal, but if the AI sees that his target isnt dying because the elf in the corner is healing it, it will stop what its doing, think to its self "Aww hell no!" and go after the healer. The healer will then need to be able to defend itself as the tank cannot just scream out "Hey, your mom..." to get it to drop aggro and switch to him.

    So yes, the trinity is still there. The problem is, sticking to the trinity mindset may be more of a detriment than a bonus.

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  • mikunimanmikuniman Keene, NYPosts: 312Member
    What I'm seeing mostly is people get all hyped with all the cool things EQN is bringing to the table then to finally see it all wrapped up with disney tangled graphics. It's not the gamers fault it's the marketing train ride you're led on.
  • KezzadrixKezzadrix Toronto, ONPosts: 90Member
    Originally posted by BearKnight
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    We have seen a "tech demo" of ingame combat which was created to highlight aspects of movement and illustrate terrain destruction. There was virtually no AI used for the mobs, in fact most of them didn't actually move or fight.

     

    We have no idea what the combat will actually be like. We know a few general details, but the specifics remain hidden. It certainly sounds like it will be similar to GW2 more than any other game, but how similar is the important part.

     

    A great deal hinges on how well the new "Adaptive AI" will work. It is mentioned very frequently, and it certainly sounds like it will make or break the game.

     

    We i know EXACTLY what the in-game combat will be like. Smedly already mentioned that we have about 40 multiclasses to choose from, but he also stated that the number of skills per class is LESS than the number of classes to choose from. That's pretty sad considering the Magician from EQ1 had about 200 spells give or take between level 1-60.

     

    The combat is also going to be almost a direct ripoff of GW2. They're doing an "Action" based combat system with telegraphs. We saw "red circles" dictating what was going to happen. Boring, repetitive, nonsense. It's just horrible. 

     

    Then, we know the "Art-Style" that SOE is going with for Everquest:Next that looks NOTHING anywhere NEAR what an Everquest game should look like. It's just BAD.

     

    We know a lot for not knowing much to be honest. It's rather frightening.

    It's true, EQ had a lot of spells as well as abilities and enhancements through AA.  Many were just better versions of existing spells, so the number of unique spells/abilities were less than 200.  While there may be less skills per class than the number of classes to choose from, (lets just say 15 as an example since I have no clue), all of these will be available to your one character to choose from. 40x15 = 600 skills.  That's a lot on one character if you ask me and will give players real customization options.  Now maybe there won't be 15 skills/spells per class, but as long as there's 5 per, you'll have your 200 on one character.

    The bad part, from what I understand, is that you can only choose 4 of these spells/skills at any given time with the other 4 dictated by your weapon and that sounds kinda gay.  I'd rather have 8 skills/spells chosen myself.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,779Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mikuniman
    What I'm seeing mostly is people get all hyped with all the cool things EQN is bringing to the table then to finally see it all wrapped up with disney tangled graphics. It's not the gamers fault it's the marketing train ride you're led on.

    I have to agree. Everything they are bringing to the table is going to be awesome except the character models and youthful combat system. ie spinning warriors crashing through walls and steps. The world itself looks amazing and I'm all for it!  The demographics show that the fans aren't 15 anymore, (no I don't have a link this is my own assessment) and imho deserve something more towards their age group! They are what most would have thought SoE was shooting for.

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  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by arieste

    There has been a lot of criticism of EQN over the last couple of days and inevitably in response to every criticism is this statement that "it's new and innovative, and you don't like it because you can't handle change".

     

    Here is the thing though.  The innovative pieces of EQN - Rally Calls, Voxel World, Landmark, Dynamic Content - these ARE NOT what are "hating" on.   Even the "hater" threads tend to like some or all of these innovative and new things. 

     

    What people are criticizing is stuff that's been done in multiple other games and that people have hated.

    The WoW-meets disney character models - there is nothing innovative about them. It is an inappropriate choice for the EQ franchise.  It has nothing to do with it being new, it has to do with them being ugly and just wrong.

    The GW2 action-combat and removal of the trinity - this sucked in GW2 and resulted in extremely trivial easy-mode encounters, no reliance on other people, poor socialization (no one ever talked in GW2 raids) and general boredom.     There are other action-combat game (NW, TSW - that do a better job designing complex encounters with action-combat, but only GW2 has totally tossed out the trinity and their encounters are crap.)

     

    So yeah, before you blame people for hating change, consider that it's not change they hate, it's bad or inappropriate features that they've seen before and did not like.   I don't see too many people talking about how "Rally Calls are a bad idea" or "being able to build anything via landmark is stupid".   Poeple LIKE the new and innovative ideas.  It's stuff copied from WoW and GW2 that people are hating on.

    uh look, another WoW hater. so newwwwwww......

     

    seriously, without wow we would be playing with 400 people per server. try finding groups on that dude.

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  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    Well said OP. If SOE doesn't change the Walt Disney models and do away with the GW2 combat the game will be headed for failure long term. I doubt SOE will change these things, just look what happened to SWG.
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  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common
    Originally posted by Bigmamajama

    Agree totally, when I saw a room full of adults cheering when the doe eyed Disney characters made cutesy emotes I almost punched my computer. 

    People were laughing at funny emote.  When they showed the in-game version of the most iconic EQ character - Firiona Vie - there was stunned silence and not a single person clapped.  It was quite sad.

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  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,779Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Thane
    Originally posted by arieste

    There has been a lot of criticism of EQN over the last couple of days and inevitably in response to every criticism is this statement that "it's new and innovative, and you don't like it because you can't handle change".

     

    Here is the thing though.  The innovative pieces of EQN - Rally Calls, Voxel World, Landmark, Dynamic Content - these ARE NOT what are "hating" on.   Even the "hater" threads tend to like some or all of these innovative and new things. 

     

    What people are criticizing is stuff that's been done in multiple other games and that people have hated.

    The WoW-meets disney character models - there is nothing innovative about them. It is an inappropriate choice for the EQ franchise.  It has nothing to do with it being new, it has to do with them being ugly and just wrong.

    The GW2 action-combat and removal of the trinity - this sucked in GW2 and resulted in extremely trivial easy-mode encounters, no reliance on other people, poor socialization (no one ever talked in GW2 raids) and general boredom.     There are other action-combat game (NW, TSW - that do a better job designing complex encounters with action-combat, but only GW2 has totally tossed out the trinity and their encounters are crap.)

     

    So yeah, before you blame people for hating change, consider that it's not change they hate, it's bad or inappropriate features that they've seen before and did not like.   I don't see too many people talking about how "Rally Calls are a bad idea" or "being able to build anything via landmark is stupid".   Poeple LIKE the new and innovative ideas.  It's stuff copied from WoW and GW2 that people are hating on.

    uh look, another WoW hater. so newwwwwww......

     

    seriously, without wow we would be playing with 400 people per server. try finding groups on that dude.

    I'm not really seeing how he said he hated WoW. IMHO he was merely stating that EQ is not, and should not be like WoW.

    WoW is an awesome game but isn't EQ, and EQ isn't WoW. /shrug

    Simply stating someone is a WoW hater because they don't like the art style being used in EQN makes no sense. 

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • ckeeton999ckeeton999 valley center, CAPosts: 53Member
    I like how everyone is judging a game before it comes out and think they know better then the people actually creating the game. . Lol
  • AceshighhhhAceshighhhh Gainesville, FLPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by leoo88556

    Read? You need to watch the QA in that panel if you haven't...

    One of the dev, Jeff I think, talked a lot about the subject since so many people is asking questions related to the trinity. The focus in EQN combat is not about removing trinity and streamlining every character build, but to remove the bad things that happened in the old system in the last 15 years while maintaining the feel and need to have certain "roles" in a combat situation, dungeon, or guild. It's not going to be easy, and they'll be arrogant to say that they will make everything perfect on their first try, but they're definitely not going to stop trying to find the middle ground between trinity and action combat just because someone else tried and failed.

    This.

    Everyone seems to be complaining that the combat may be similar to Guild Wars 2, but why should SOE copy the same boring and overused combat system we've seen in every MMO over andover?

    The developers said during the panels that they are aware of the problems that have occurred in Guild Wars 2 and they will try to create a better game.

    SOE IS NOT MAKING EQ 2.5

  • gatherisgatheris Charlotte, MIPosts: 995Member Uncommon

    Pity MMORPG doesn't adopt a thumbs up or down system (or any kind of voting) for posts

    Big thumbs up to OP anyway

     

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  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,779Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh
    Originally posted by leoo88556

    Read? You need to watch the QA in that panel if you haven't...

    One of the dev, Jeff I think, talked a lot about the subject since so many people is asking questions related to the trinity. The focus in EQN combat is not about removing trinity and streamlining every character build, but to remove the bad things that happened in the old system in the last 15 years while maintaining the feel and need to have certain "roles" in a combat situation, dungeon, or guild. It's not going to be easy, and they'll be arrogant to say that they will make everything perfect on their first try, but they're definitely not going to stop trying to find the middle ground between trinity and action combat just because someone else tried and failed.

    This.

    Everyone seems to be complaining that the combat may be similar to Guild Wars 2, but why should SOE copy the same boring and overused combat system we've seen in every MMO over andover?

    The developers said during the panels that they are aware of the problems that have occurred in Guild Wars 2 and they will try to create a better game.

    SOE IS NOT MAKING EQ 2.5

    I think some would believe they aren't even making Everquest.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • C3llTherapyC3llTherapy Summerville, SCPosts: 15Member
    Awesome post.
  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh
    Originally posted by leoo88556

    Read? You need to watch the QA in that panel if you haven't...

    One of the dev, Jeff I think, talked a lot about the subject since so many people is asking questions related to the trinity. The focus in EQN combat is not about removing trinity and streamlining every character build, but to remove the bad things that happened in the old system in the last 15 years while maintaining the feel and need to have certain "roles" in a combat situation, dungeon, or guild. It's not going to be easy, and they'll be arrogant to say that they will make everything perfect on their first try, but they're definitely not going to stop trying to find the middle ground between trinity and action combat just because someone else tried and failed.

    This.

    Everyone seems to be complaining that the combat may be similar to Guild Wars 2, but why should SOE copy the same boring and overused combat system we've seen in every MMO over andover?

    The developers said during the panels that they are aware of the problems that have occurred in Guild Wars 2 and they will try to create a better game.

    SOE IS NOT MAKING EQ 2.5

    Action combat is now the same boring and overused combat system that we are seeing in every new mmo over and over.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Layton, UTPosts: 4,779Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh
    Originally posted by leoo88556

    Read? You need to watch the QA in that panel if you haven't...

    One of the dev, Jeff I think, talked a lot about the subject since so many people is asking questions related to the trinity. The focus in EQN combat is not about removing trinity and streamlining every character build, but to remove the bad things that happened in the old system in the last 15 years while maintaining the feel and need to have certain "roles" in a combat situation, dungeon, or guild. It's not going to be easy, and they'll be arrogant to say that they will make everything perfect on their first try, but they're definitely not going to stop trying to find the middle ground between trinity and action combat just because someone else tried and failed.

    This.

    Everyone seems to be complaining that the combat may be similar to Guild Wars 2, but why should SOE copy the same boring and overused combat system we've seen in every MMO over andover?

    The developers said during the panels that they are aware of the problems that have occurred in Guild Wars 2 and they will try to create a better game.

    SOE IS NOT MAKING EQ 2.5

    Action combat is now the same boring and overused combat system that we are seeing in every new mmo over and over.

    I agree! They need to put the RPG back into MMORPG. We need a new genre! RPGMMO

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  • Whiskey_SamWhiskey_Sam Lynchburg, VAPosts: 294Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by niceguy3978
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh
    Originally posted by leoo88556

    Read? You need to watch the QA in that panel if you haven't...

    One of the dev, Jeff I think, talked a lot about the subject since so many people is asking questions related to the trinity. The focus in EQN combat is not about removing trinity and streamlining every character build, but to remove the bad things that happened in the old system in the last 15 years while maintaining the feel and need to have certain "roles" in a combat situation, dungeon, or guild. It's not going to be easy, and they'll be arrogant to say that they will make everything perfect on their first try, but they're definitely not going to stop trying to find the middle ground between trinity and action combat just because someone else tried and failed.

    This.

    Everyone seems to be complaining that the combat may be similar to Guild Wars 2, but why should SOE copy the same boring and overused combat system we've seen in every MMO over andover?

    The developers said during the panels that they are aware of the problems that have occurred in Guild Wars 2 and they will try to create a better game.

    SOE IS NOT MAKING EQ 2.5

    Action combat is now the same boring and overused combat system that we are seeing in every new mmo over and over.

    I found this to be the great irony in the presentation.  They said they didn't want to make the same game they had been making for years...so they make the same combat everyone has been making for the last couple of years.

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  • chilly15450chilly15450 plover, WIPosts: 16Member

    "Guys" they basically said that AI is too smart for a holy trinity. You can't just have tank just standing or moving around and the AI just targets him all the time. It won't work like that. If AI sees that the taket is not dieing he will go after the healer who's healing the tank. The smart AI destroys the holy trinity. This is why you can't have holy trinities while they're are smart AI's.

     

    They also pointed out the problems that the holy trinity brings out. It doesn't bother me if they do action-combat game. I fuckin hate that almost every MMORPG has the exact same combat. For the last 20 years!

  • DullahanDullahan Posts: 2,057Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chilly15450

    "Guys" they basically said that AI is too smart for a holy trinity. You can't just have tank just standing or moving around and the AI just targets him all the time. It won't work like that. If AI sees that the taket is not dieing he will go after the healer who's healing the tank. The smart AI destroys the holy trinity. This is why you can't have holy trinities while they're are smart AI's.

     

    They also pointed out the problems that the holy trinity brings out. It doesn't bother me if they do action-combat game. I fuckin hate that almost every MMORPG has the exact same combat. For the last 20 years!

    Saying something is "too smart" for a role thats sole purpose is to hinder, block, distract, annoy and create threat is just an excuse to remove the role.  You simply don't have an MMO ROLE playing game when you destroy the role system by taking out the mechanic that allows them and everyone else to play their part.


  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,752Member Uncommon
    There is still too little information to know if what they are saying is even true....Also most of the things they have mentioned have been done in other games......I dont really want to do mental masturbation on this game for months on end.....When we see some real gameplay footage and hear some beta info then we can debate...until  then, we are just wasting our time.
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