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What do you do in this game, exactly?

xyagentguyxyagentguy Seattle, WAPosts: 78Member

I have a serious question.  But first I was to stress that I don't necessarily believe "grinding" is fun, but it may seem so based on a what I write.

 

I was really trying to think about what I loved from EQ1 and EQ2 (unlike most I played both heavily and enjoyed both heavily).  I loved camping certain mobs with my buds in EQ1 (Dervish camps, anyone?).  I loved dungeoneering for the exp, the fun of the kill, the loot, the levels, the new spells and abilities.  I loved raiding for the same reason.  I loved named NPCs and the excitement of when they popped.  I simply loved the adventure of the games, the clear roles, and progressing my character in power and fortune.  I was never a HARDCORE raider, by any means, I still liked doing these things at my leisure. 

So now EQN comes along.  It has NO levels.  No raids to speak of, no stats on gear, no vertical progression.  Am I missing something here?  I'm supposed to go out and explore to get all these classes and then progress these classes.  Uh, what if I only care about a few classes, or want to even be a purist, and JUST play my Necromancer?  What am I working for, exactly?  Why do I enter a dungeon with my buddies to not gain experience, levels, or loot with stats?  Is it PURELY cosmetic?  Things will start to look cooler as I grow in tier?  I feel like they removed some of the basic building blocks of a fantasy mmo, and I'm kinda lost.

I love the new AI, and I'm sure I will participate in some really cool dynamic event and rallying calls...... but then, after a while... for what?  No exp, no levels, no loot with stats..?  It seems after a very short time, I'm just gonna bugger out (not terribly too dissimilar to what happened with me and GW2). 

The destructible thing is cool, but really.. I never saw myself so much of a miner or digger or caver in my fantasy mmo.  I am constantly going down.  Further and further down... for what?  No exp, no levels, no loot with stats?

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Comments

  • KiyorisKiyoris BejingPosts: 965Member Uncommon

    lol, not sure

    I am still not sure what horizontal progression means. Gather more classes....that's great. Then what. No gear progress, no raid progress, uhm....

    ]

  • ozmonoozmono Not tellingPosts: 1,211Member
    Be part of and by being part of, change the game world. Learn new stuff, kill stuff still, explore, be part of quest that have real impact (hopefully) and there is progression as far a gear and characters go too. They talked about items altering your skills so that is atleast equal to a stat boast and they talked about learning new skills and so on from emergent quest.
  • RorrinRorrin Waxahachie, TXPosts: 29Member Common
    i'm wondering the same thing.  we must surely be missing something...
  • xyagentguyxyagentguy Seattle, WAPosts: 78Member
    Originally posted by ozmono
    Be part of and by being part of, change the game world. Learn new stuff, kill stuff still, explore, be part of quest that have real impact (hopefully) and there is progression as far a gear and characters go too. They talked about items altering your skills so that is atleast equal to a stat boast and they talked about learning new skills and so on from emergent quest.

    Yeah I'm sure changing the world will be cool.  But that's all WORLD.  What about changing ME.  MY toon, my fantasy avatar.  I'm sure these events will be dynamic and impactful, but to what end?  To see the world change.... okay.... I'm following.  But the change does what for me?  I guess in some ways it'll be gratifying that I helped the change, unless I don't LIKE the change, then it's sort of.... sad.  Learn new stuff, kill stuff, and explore..... to not gain experience, levels, or stats on loot?

  • DatawarlockDatawarlock Eden Prairie, MNPosts: 338Member
    Sounds like they just found a way to finally sucker the masses into playing this like it were Secondlife or something. No real goals to it so to speak, and they'd love for you to create their content for them too 'cause they were too lazy to do it themselves... plus they want a percentage of whatever you make off it, just like Linden Labs. lol!
  • xyagentguyxyagentguy Seattle, WAPosts: 78Member
    I also wanted to add that I actually love horizontal progression.  I think it's a very fun and important aspect of mmorpg's.  But I don't understand how a fantasy mmorpg can ONLY sustain itself with horizontal progression.  I can see how one can sustain itself with vertical only progression, though many would argue that is a grind-fest or whatever.  I am seriously sitting here confused, I am not trying to be rude or troll WHATSOEVER.
  • andrewr47andrewr47 Chicago, ILPosts: 15Member
    wondering the same thing. exploration and gaining skills aren't gonna take all that much time. crafting could be, but for what? since there are no stats associated with these crafted items, what is the point? perhaps you can gain a "high tiered" weapon, but what is it all for if the boss isn't going to drop anything with stats? Maybe the boss will drop something even "higher tiered" but since there are only 4-5 tiers, i dont see how much of a progression you can reach. 
  • Greyhawk4x4Greyhawk4x4 Eagle Mountain, UTPosts: 471Member

    Just because you don't have some symbolic number (levels) next to your name doesn't mean your character isn't getting more powerful. Your character still has new experiences and is able to affect the game world even without levels.

    Pre -NGE  SWG didn't have levels...and no one cared.  You had titles, skills and gear.

    I was the most well known Master Ranger on the Naritus server and I made millions of credits helping Jedi track down the rare mobs they needed for the Knight trials. I used those credits to fund my player city and upgrade my starships and so on.

    I didn't give a crap about levels. 

    image

    image
  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,758Member Uncommon
    I dont know...The games that seem to be influencing EQN (minecraft, GW2, vindictus) I didnt find all that enjoyable......Being a former EQ 1 and 2 player I was hoping for a continuation of that but it sure doesnt sound liek that is what we are getting......It sounds more like this is Everquest online adventures next, not everquest next.
  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    Chat and tell people to go back to WoW
  • ozmonoozmono Not tellingPosts: 1,211Member
    Originally posted by xyagentguy
    Originally posted by ozmono
    Be part of and by being part of, change the game world. Learn new stuff, kill stuff still, explore, be part of quest that have real impact (hopefully) and there is progression as far a gear and characters go too. They talked about items altering your skills so that is atleast equal to a stat boast and they talked about learning new skills and so on from emergent quest.

    Yeah I'm sure changing the world will be cool.  But that's all WORLD.  What about changing ME.  MY toon, my fantasy avatar.  I'm sure these events will be dynamic and impactful, but to what end?  To see the world change.... okay.... I'm following.  But the change does what for me?  I guess in some ways it'll be gratifying that I helped the change, unless I don't LIKE the change, then it's sort of.... sad.  Learn new stuff, kill stuff, and explore..... to not gain experience, levels, or stats on loot?

    What about you? Well I sort of answered that already. I'm under the impression it will be pretty much everything like in another MMO except you won't have levels. You'll still have powerful skills to learn, you'll still have gear that doesn't just have a cosmetic effect (they talked about it changing skills and so on, an example was less mana for a certain skill) so it is equal to having a piece of gear that gives you X amount of mana, it's just the way it's being done is different.

     

    This is just what I've gathered from watching their videos. In addition to that I would assume their would be plenty of need for resources and as such loot because they have talked about making crafting important and are talking about carrying over some of the building elements from landmark. All that's really gone as far as you the character is concerned is level numbers and it looks like we are getting so much more in return.

  • xyagentguyxyagentguy Seattle, WAPosts: 78Member
    Originally posted by Greyhawk4x4

    Just because you don't have some symbolic number (levels) next to your name doesn't mean your character isn't getting more powerful. Your character still has new experiences and is able to affect the game world even without levels.

    Pre -NGE  SWG didn't have levels...and no one cared.  You had titles, skills and gear.

    I was the most well known Master Ranger on the Naritus server and I made millions of credits helping Jedi track down the rare mobs they needed for the Knight trials. I used those credits to fund my player city and upgrade my starships and so on.

    I didn't give a crap about levels. 

    I do remembering loving SWG before NGE (ick) but playing a sci-fi mmorpg is sort of a different beast in my opinion.  Maybe that's my problem.  I DON'T love TSW, I find it's "progression" system dull and lackluster.

  • FratmanFratman Bumpkinville, WYPosts: 344Member
    Originally posted by xyagentguy

    Yeah I'm sure changing the world will be cool.  But that's all WORLD.  What about changing ME.  MY toon, my fantasy avatar.  I'm sure these events will be dynamic and impactful, but to what end?  To see the world change.... okay.... I'm following.  But the change does what for me?  I guess in some ways it'll be gratifying that I helped the change, unless I don't LIKE the change, then it's sort of.... sad.  Learn new stuff, kill stuff, and explore..... to not gain experience, levels, or stats on loot?

    This is a legitimate question. At this point we don't know enough about their plans for pve and pvp to have an answer.

  • dandurindandurin Santa Clara, CAPosts: 493Member

    The OP brings up the fundamental question about level-less MMO design.

     

    My play group logs in.  What do we do?  Why do we do it if it doesn't improve our circumstances?

     

    They have yet to address that.  They have plenty of time to do it, but it seems to conflict with a primary design pillar.

  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean st. pete, FLPosts: 706Member Uncommon
    I hope to spend most of my time browsing the extensive cash shop.
  • Greyhawk4x4Greyhawk4x4 Eagle Mountain, UTPosts: 471Member
    Originally posted by xyagentguy
    Originally posted by Greyhawk4x4

    Just because you don't have some symbolic number (levels) next to your name doesn't mean your character isn't getting more powerful. Your character still has new experiences and is able to affect the game world even without levels.

    Pre -NGE  SWG didn't have levels...and no one cared.  You had titles, skills and gear.

    I was the most well known Master Ranger on the Naritus server and I made millions of credits helping Jedi track down the rare mobs they needed for the Knight trials. I used those credits to fund my player city and upgrade my starships and so on.

    I didn't give a crap about levels. 

    I do remembering loving SWG before NGE (ick) but playing a sci-fi mmorpg is sort of a different beast in my opinion.  Maybe that's my problem.  I DON'T love TSW, I find it's "progression" system dull and lackluster.

    My point is that they are giving us a living, changing world to explore, build up, destroy, etc.  ...... instead of a game.

    If you need structured, linear gameplay and objectives then I don't think this will be your cup of tea.

    Best of luck to you.

    image

    image
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by xyagentguy

    I have a serious question.  But first I was to stress that I don't necessarily believe "grinding" is fun, but it may seem so based on a what I write.

     

    I was really trying to think about what I loved from EQ1 and EQ2 (unlike most I played both heavily and enjoyed both heavily).  I loved camping certain mobs with my buds in EQ1 (Dervish camps, anyone?).  I loved dungeoneering for the exp, the fun of the kill, the loot, the levels, the new spells and abilities.  I loved raiding for the same reason.  I loved named NPCs and the excitement of when they popped.  I simply loved the adventure of the games, the clear roles, and progressing my character in power and fortune.  I was never a HARDCORE raider, by any means, I still liked doing these things at my leisure. 

    So now EQN comes along.  It has NO levels.  No raids to speak of, no stats on gear, no vertical progression.  Am I missing something here?  I'm supposed to go out and explore to get all these classes and then progress these classes.  Uh, what if I only care about a few classes, or want to even be a purist, and JUST play my Necromancer?  What am I working for, exactly?  Why do I enter a dungeon with my buddies to not gain experience, levels, or loot with stats?  Is it PURELY cosmetic?  Things will start to look cooler as I grow in tier?  I feel like they removed some of the basic building blocks of a fantasy mmo, and I'm kinda lost.

    I love the new AI, and I'm sure I will participate in some really cool dynamic event and rallying calls...... but then, after a while... for what?  No exp, no levels, no loot with stats..?  It seems after a very short time, I'm just gonna bugger out (not terribly too dissimilar to what happened with me and GW2). 

    The destructible thing is cool, but really.. I never saw myself so much of a miner or digger or caver in my fantasy mmo.  I am constantly going down.  Further and further down... for what?  No exp, no levels, no loot with stats?

    well, it looks like you are supposed to.......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpUYjpKg9KY

  • zwei2zwei2 SingaporePosts: 361Member
    Originally posted by Vigg
    I hope to spend most of my time browsing the extensive cash shop.

    Why does this reminds me of...

    The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  • Redfeather75Redfeather75 Guelph, ONPosts: 182Member

    Long term goals from what I've seen in videos.

    1. Attribute Point acquisition. Stated as something that requires a lot of effort and time.
    2. Item acquisition. Items have functionality changes that compliment playing styles. The example given was a type of ring that makes teleport moves cost less energy.
    3. Each class is a full package. Multi-classing is only for if you want to alter the existing play styles of a class. Each classes progression has been designed to be a long-term progression.

  • andrewr47andrewr47 Chicago, ILPosts: 15Member

    I think this game shuld be called Evercraft or Eversims. You kill monsters, get better mining axes, get more raw material, and build more stuff, and SOE take more royalty. 

    It's beginning to sound like a viable plan... 

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,561Member Uncommon
    What did people do in other sandbox games like SWG and Ultima Online? I think the best answer you will get for now is from those players and not players of themepark mmos post WoW. Other than the devs havent revealed much so you will have to wait for the official word on this subject.
  • KarbleKarble San Diego, CAPosts: 741Member
    Originally posted by xyagentguy

    I have a serious question.  But first I was to stress that I don't necessarily believe "grinding" is fun, but it may seem so based on a what I write.

     

    I was really trying to think about what I loved from EQ1 and EQ2 (unlike most I played both heavily and enjoyed both heavily).  I loved camping certain mobs with my buds in EQ1 (Dervish camps, anyone?).  I loved dungeoneering for the exp, the fun of the kill, the loot, the levels, the new spells and abilities.  I loved raiding for the same reason.  I loved named NPCs and the excitement of when they popped.  I simply loved the adventure of the games, the clear roles, and progressing my character in power and fortune.  I was never a HARDCORE raider, by any means, I still liked doing these things at my leisure. 

    So now EQN comes along.  It has NO levels.  No raids to speak of, no stats on gear, no vertical progression.  Am I missing something here?  I'm supposed to go out and explore to get all these classes and then progress these classes.  Uh, what if I only care about a few classes, or want to even be a purist, and JUST play my Necromancer?  What am I working for, exactly?  Why do I enter a dungeon with my buddies to not gain experience, levels, or loot with stats?  Is it PURELY cosmetic?  Things will start to look cooler as I grow in tier?  I feel like they removed some of the basic building blocks of a fantasy mmo, and I'm kinda lost.

    I love the new AI, and I'm sure I will participate in some really cool dynamic event and rallying calls...... but then, after a while... for what?  No exp, no levels, no loot with stats..?  It seems after a very short time, I'm just gonna bugger out (not terribly too dissimilar to what happened with me and GW2). 

    The destructible thing is cool, but really.. I never saw myself so much of a miner or digger or caver in my fantasy mmo.  I am constantly going down.  Further and further down... for what?  No exp, no levels, no loot with stats?

    Where did you hear that gear won't have stats and be unique? I thought that was one of the things they were specifically talking about. Plus in a video they showed a wizard using some boots that allowed a floating effect as she was traveling down a mountain area. I think we will be amazed by the crafting and the cool gear we find. Also being able to make your own housing and protect it from the environment. Take daily adventures to explore new areas or perhaps raid dungeons or group up and set out to see a new camp your buddy heard about. It's kind of like choose your own adventure. If you like just playing one class that you pick the weapons and get really good at the class and maybe pick up new skills as you go. We are still only partially into the details phase. Many things are yet to be revealed. I know I am very curious about this whole game. They even have guns in this version of EQ. That means some classes of the 40 will be gun slingers.

  • toddzetoddze no where, OKPosts: 2,155Member

    What do you do in this game exactly?

    I hope it is playing the game like an MMO should be. Which is letting the player decide what he wants to do and where he wants to do it, instead of the typical themepark MMO where it tells you what to do and where to do it, and if you dont like it tough luck your doing it anyways, because thats part of the ride on rails.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,561Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karble
    Originally posted by xyagentguy

    I have a serious question.  But first I was to stress that I don't necessarily believe "grinding" is fun, but it may seem so based on a what I write.

     

    I was really trying to think about what I loved from EQ1 and EQ2 (unlike most I played both heavily and enjoyed both heavily).  I loved camping certain mobs with my buds in EQ1 (Dervish camps, anyone?).  I loved dungeoneering for the exp, the fun of the kill, the loot, the levels, the new spells and abilities.  I loved raiding for the same reason.  I loved named NPCs and the excitement of when they popped.  I simply loved the adventure of the games, the clear roles, and progressing my character in power and fortune.  I was never a HARDCORE raider, by any means, I still liked doing these things at my leisure. 

    So now EQN comes along.  It has NO levels.  No raids to speak of, no stats on gear, no vertical progression.  Am I missing something here?  I'm supposed to go out and explore to get all these classes and then progress these classes.  Uh, what if I only care about a few classes, or want to even be a purist, and JUST play my Necromancer?  What am I working for, exactly?  Why do I enter a dungeon with my buddies to not gain experience, levels, or loot with stats?  Is it PURELY cosmetic?  Things will start to look cooler as I grow in tier?  I feel like they removed some of the basic building blocks of a fantasy mmo, and I'm kinda lost.

    I love the new AI, and I'm sure I will participate in some really cool dynamic event and rallying calls...... but then, after a while... for what?  No exp, no levels, no loot with stats..?  It seems after a very short time, I'm just gonna bugger out (not terribly too dissimilar to what happened with me and GW2). 

    The destructible thing is cool, but really.. I never saw myself so much of a miner or digger or caver in my fantasy mmo.  I am constantly going down.  Further and further down... for what?  No exp, no levels, no loot with stats?

    Where did you hear that gear won't have stats and be unique? I thought that was one of the things they were specifically talking about. Plus in a video they showed a wizard using some boots that allowed a floating effect as she was traveling down a mountain area. I think we will be amazed by the crafting and the cool gear we find. Also being able to make your own housing and protect it from the environment. Take daily adventures to explore new areas or perhaps raid dungeons or group up and set out to see a new camp your buddy heard about. It's kind of like choose your own adventure. If you like just playing one class that you pick the weapons and get really good at the class and maybe pick up new skills as you go. We are still only partially into the details phase. Many things are yet to be revealed. I know I am very curious about this whole game. They even have guns in this version of EQ. That means some classes of the 40 will be gun slingers.

    Thats the thing that impresses me, it makes me think that items will have actual enchanted powers that you can physically use in the world other than just provide +stats value.  Well pretty much every feature impresses me so far.  It really is starting to seem like what they are saying the game will be...A virtual world.

  • fyerwallfyerwall Posts: 3,155Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by Karble
    Originally posted by xyagentguy

    I have a serious question.  But first I was to stress that I don't necessarily believe "grinding" is fun, but it may seem so based on a what I write.

     

    I was really trying to think about what I loved from EQ1 and EQ2 (unlike most I played both heavily and enjoyed both heavily).  I loved camping certain mobs with my buds in EQ1 (Dervish camps, anyone?).  I loved dungeoneering for the exp, the fun of the kill, the loot, the levels, the new spells and abilities.  I loved raiding for the same reason.  I loved named NPCs and the excitement of when they popped.  I simply loved the adventure of the games, the clear roles, and progressing my character in power and fortune.  I was never a HARDCORE raider, by any means, I still liked doing these things at my leisure. 

    So now EQN comes along.  It has NO levels.  No raids to speak of, no stats on gear, no vertical progression.  Am I missing something here?  I'm supposed to go out and explore to get all these classes and then progress these classes.  Uh, what if I only care about a few classes, or want to even be a purist, and JUST play my Necromancer?  What am I working for, exactly?  Why do I enter a dungeon with my buddies to not gain experience, levels, or loot with stats?  Is it PURELY cosmetic?  Things will start to look cooler as I grow in tier?  I feel like they removed some of the basic building blocks of a fantasy mmo, and I'm kinda lost.

    I love the new AI, and I'm sure I will participate in some really cool dynamic event and rallying calls...... but then, after a while... for what?  No exp, no levels, no loot with stats..?  It seems after a very short time, I'm just gonna bugger out (not terribly too dissimilar to what happened with me and GW2). 

    The destructible thing is cool, but really.. I never saw myself so much of a miner or digger or caver in my fantasy mmo.  I am constantly going down.  Further and further down... for what?  No exp, no levels, no loot with stats?

    Where did you hear that gear won't have stats and be unique? I thought that was one of the things they were specifically talking about. Plus in a video they showed a wizard using some boots that allowed a floating effect as she was traveling down a mountain area. I think we will be amazed by the crafting and the cool gear we find. Also being able to make your own housing and protect it from the environment. Take daily adventures to explore new areas or perhaps raid dungeons or group up and set out to see a new camp your buddy heard about. It's kind of like choose your own adventure. If you like just playing one class that you pick the weapons and get really good at the class and maybe pick up new skills as you go. We are still only partially into the details phase. Many things are yet to be revealed. I know I am very curious about this whole game. They even have guns in this version of EQ. That means some classes of the 40 will be gun slingers.

    Thats the thing that impresses me, it makes me think that items will have actual enchanted powers that you can physically use in the world other than just provide +stats value.  Well pretty much every feature impresses me so far.  It really is starting to seem like what they are saying the game will be...A virtual world.

    Items will have ability modifiers on them. Things like '- 5 energy consumption for Fire Spells'.

    Your items will compliment the specific abilities you want to use in your role. You will want to find/collect items that have the modifiers you need to make the builds you plan to use even more effective. So items will still have value, just as they have had in EQ/EQ2/WoW/Etc, just not in the same manner people are used to.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


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