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Concerned about no leveling
ethion
Member UncommonPosts: 2,888
So I've read everything possible about the game. I'm really impressed by everything but I'm getting a bit concerned about the why play it. Sounds like there isn't really any progression in the game at all. Thats a huge deal in my book.
So there are no levels, there are no attributes on gear, player attributes will be very difficut to modify. There will be 40 classes.
So your motivation is to find new classes. Gear will be meaningful only in that different types will have different weapon abilities.
So the game has no progression? No reason to get new equipment? No levels to advance? Not even AA points.
Yes it will be fun to play for awhile but without any sense of achievement will just living in the world be reason enough to play??
Anyone else concerned?
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Ethion
Comments
there will be levels
Im pretty sure its just masked by a different term -"Tier"
http://www.reddit.com/r/EQNext/comments/1jm875/talked_to_darrin_lead_game_design_at_the_pool/
Quote:
Yes, this could potentially kill the game.
But that depends on how much of a sense of progression you can get otherwise. there has to be more than gear related progression. We don't know enough about hte game to really know if it will work without levels or exp. Long term goals are essential to keep people's interest, at least until theyve been in the game a good 3-6 months and get attached to it.
Fast leveling games tend to have abysmal retention. Hopefully the rest of EQN is so good it wont matter.
Your power is related to the # of classes you unlocked. More classes, more abilities.
Everything is scaled to your level, even "raid" encounters with only 2 people.
I imagine GW2 was a big influence. So endgame is probably crafting your special gear, hitting up all the Vistas, and collecting more classes, getting rich, and so on. Those interested in zone creation can have lots to do with that also, from what it sounds like.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
I keep using this caged bird analogy. I have been there in EVE. You sit there and you think to yourself what do I want to do, I can do anything. I can go kill enemy NPCs or do missions or even raid but first I need to get more powerful and into at least a Tier 3 ship. Then you do that and discover that you really like mining, so you then progress towards being able to use Tier 3 mining ships to organize mining operations.
Everyone knows what you can do and what you can fly and you can even help out in the high level Tier 5 content.
It is a great community builder because you still need more players to kill through a swarm of orcs and having one lumberjack may not cut it, oooh bad pun, so you need 20 to build your guild hall faster.
YOU decide what to do YOU decide what "progress" is.
We have this in the real world too. Money. It is a solid measure of "success", but there are many musicians and other artists out there starving but living their dream and progressing in their art. Who is more successful? The millionaire level 1 billion bussinessman or the 20 year music veteran that can read and write music and make you cry without uttering a word?
These posts are so idiotic.
Narrow minded people that don't understand that lots of people love to create. There will be some absolutely ecstatic folks out there that create something that is used in the game. People who are cynical about this really have some serious issues. This is one of the greatest dev idea ever, and it ultimately benefits the player base far more than the devs because Norrath will look even better because of it.
its funny, people bitch about not having the tools to craft a world, then when a dev team gives them to people, they bitch its the devs being lazy
as to no leveling, I am pretty positive there will be some type of horizontal leveling curve, albeit, AA's, skill leveling etc. It is an RPG, there will be experience earned, and it will be spent somewhere, right?
Created an account just to troll on 08/03? nice life
From what I read, each class 'tiers-up' separately... but there may be some interdependence or conflicts in the prerequisites for each class. For instance... to advance a tier in SK, you might need to attack the group you need good faction with to advance a tier in Paladin.
Now, I can't tell from what I've read whether you advance the class skills along with the class... or whether what you're 'tiering-up' (damnit... they should just use the 'L'-word!) are the individual skills you get from the class rather than the class itself.
In other words, I can't tell if my "shaman elemental spirit summoner", built with shamanic and mage skills, would advance the shaman and mage classes... or whether what I'd be focusing on is advancing my mage summoning spells and my shaman buffs and heals.
I could see it going either way.
Awesome! That provides some hope for advancement.
The person who mentioned tiers vs levels that was already asked and no there are no tiers. You can expand horizontally by learning more classes but there is no tiering or leveling.
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Ethion
Luckily admins can ban IP addresses. now we get to hear how smart he is and how he will use a proxy bla bla, he is the uber awesome know it all 22 year old!
No leveling isn't necessarily a bad thing. A lot of your game play is in the end game anyway. So most games have a LOT of throw away stuff getting you to the end game where many people say the game really begins. Sounds like perhaps they are skipping everyone directly to the end game which might fix one of the big problems with most new games, ie no end game. You rush through levels and get to the end and there are a few dungeons and no real development.
So I'm hoping they have something really fleshed out for progression. End game progression in my opinion was something everquest did pretty good.
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Ethion
I'm not as concerned about levels as much as I am about the attributes and gear system. Think they said gear will not be stat driven, so how do you make it more powerful? The other questions are what is PvP like, how is the Death Penalty. Basically the common question's you'd ask.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/08/03/everquest-next-interview/
There are indeed tiers:
"your tier three warrior, in order to advance to tier four, has to collect a full suit of tier three armor. You have to have spent enough points in that class. You have to have accomplished a certain amount of things in the game in order to have advanced."
http://www.eqnemesis.com
I'd be very interested in that as well.
Only info I know about:
EverQuest Next interview: no grinding, no leveling, and a maybe on Frogloks
http://l337gamers.com/2013/08/everquest-next-interview-no-grinding-no-leveling-and-a-maybe-on-frogloks/
If I’m killed, will I respawn nearby, or have to go collect my items from my corpse like back in the day?
McPherson: So, death penalty is not one of the things we’re ready to talk about yet, but there needs to be some amount of risk. There needs to be some amount of reward for doing hard things, and we’ll release more of that information in the future.
So some form of penalty perhaps, but very elusive in answers.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
except that in EQ, the game didnt begin at endgame.
in Vanilla WoW, the game didnt begin at end game
"the game begins at endgame" means you designed an awful game (or your game is several old and thats where all the players are)
There absolutely has to be tangible power progression, outside of only gear. If they can manage that it shouldnt be an issue.
Well, if you just joined to bitch, we have enough of those already so don't bother.
Did they talk about what going up in tiers gives you? Does it actually make you stronger as a character or is it just some requirement for you to be able to wield better armor or unlock a new class.
I guess it's kind of a cool idea to complete these particular tasks for your character to progress like slaying some epic monster or finding that shiny set of armor. If this is just an alternative way of leveling that replaces grinding xp with completing tasks then that sounds pretty cool. Them saying there will be no levels is probably just for marketing purposes.
"Horizontal progression" makes me kind of nervous though. From what I understand gear will improve your abilities n resources (hp/mana/energy etc) instead of stats, which is sort of the same thing because stats do the same thing just in a more general sense. But how will different tiers of gear differ?
I can imagine that it'll probably be along the lines of [Fire gauntlets] +20 fireball damage - req being like tier 3 fire mage then [blazing gauntlets] +50 fireball damage -0.25 cooldown reduction - req tier 10 fire mage. I guess that could be quite interesting but how will that work with expansions and such? What will gear improve then? Will it just keep improving the power of your spells but if there are no levels then what's the purpose of making your spells more powerful? I though npc's don't have levels either and just scale to your tier or something, so technically I can just stay at tier 1 and go raiding?
I hope it won't just become another skin farming game like GW2. I was a big fan of GW1 and how it worked there but GW2 just feels strange with the same system. Not that I dislike the system but I don't want every game having this type of "progression"
There are no levels in the sense that there are no zones for specific character levels. Some mobs will simply be harder than others (usually the farther away from town).
Classes have progression through tiers. You will have to progress each classes individually by doing things (and that's not just combat). I suspect these "goals" will be set by the class trainers too. Sort of like very long quests.