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"I would not call this game a hardcore MMO." - per Terry Michaels

245

Comments

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by velmax
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    "I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

     

    They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

     

    not surprising at all.

    Look at the combat skills - facerolling AE into enemies, there is no pulling and splitting mob mechanic in EQN (like classic EQ1). dodge out of red circles and AE spam the mobs.

    EQN will not be a hard game like eq1 - it will be easy mode.

    Granted this could change but from the looks of AE skills, I expect EZ mode game.

    How do u know? Have u played the game? They clearly haven't revealed everything of the game yet.

    Also people don't seem to understand how demo's like this work they were demonstrating the tech and so make things easy because they don't need to characters dying and pausing the demo.Not to mention that a lot of the mobs clearly had no AI and were just fodder.Judging the difficulty of the final game from what was shown is an exercise in foolishness.

    Now the game may turn out to be everything you and I fear but you can't tell from what was shown.

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by Latronus
    Originally posted by Biskop

    Yeah, shame on SOE for wanting a commercially viable product! After all, they do have a responsibility to provide "hardcore" nolifers with the game of their dreams.

    You know, a game can be "hardcore" (meaning complex, difficult, and rewarding time investment) and yet accesible. For example, the core game mechanics and basic features can be simple and intuitive while high-end content is hard and demanding. A player can then chose which level of difficulty he/she wants to engage.

    But I guess some people still think "hardcore" = long grind + harsh death penalties + tedious mechanics that anyone with a life and a job will shun, and if a game does not abide by those 1999 design standards it is to be considered a kid's game and a WoW clone.

     

    You sound like the whiners that would cry back in 1999 because they couldn't get what a raider could after only playing an hour or so night.  A very wise man once said,"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."  You may have heard of him, he was very charismatic, was responsible for guiding hundreds of men, and has a trophy named after him.  His name was Vince Lombardi.  

    You want the badass stuff?  Here's an idea, work for it.  Earn it.  It is meaningless if you don't have to achieve something to get it though.  But what am I saying, this game is about horizontal progression.  There are red boxes on the ground to telegraph to the learning impaired that they need to get out of the way or get smacked.  You can finally be a tank/healer/DPS/nuker all at the same time!  Looks like SOE got tired of the whining children throwing tantrums and caved so they will STFU.

    i only hope they finally listen and change a few things.

    And you sound like someone who's living in the past.

    I'm not opposed to challenge and having to earn things in games. What I'm saying is that a game can be accessible and challenging at the same time. There is not need for it to be a second job where you "earn" stuff by grinding PvE mobs for hours, days, weeks and months.

    The challenge can come in many forms; building things in the world, becoming rich through crafting and trade, completing difficult "detective"-like quests, finding hard-to-reach places through smart exploration, and of course PvP, territory control, and player politics. None of these things exclude simple core mechanics and easy-to-learn gameplay.

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,278Member Uncommon

     Wushu might survive another...

     

     

     

    more info tomorrow though!!! image

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Drakynn
    Originally posted by velmax
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    "I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

     

    They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

     

    not surprising at all.

    Look at the combat skills - facerolling AE into enemies, there is no pulling and splitting mob mechanic in EQN (like classic EQ1). dodge out of red circles and AE spam the mobs.

    EQN will not be a hard game like eq1 - it will be easy mode.

    Granted this could change but from the looks of AE skills, I expect EZ mode game.

    How do u know? Have u played the game? They clearly haven't revealed everything of the game yet.

    Also people don't seem to understand how demo's like this work they were demonstrating the tech and so make things easy because they don't need to characters dying and pausing the demo.Not to mention that a lot of the mobs clearly had no AI and were just fodder.Judging the difficulty of the final game from what was shown is an exercise in foolishness.

    Now the game may turn out to be everything you and I fear but you can't tell from what was shown.

    Imagine any character in classic EQ1 having that whirlwind attack - yeah breaking mez, and getting 20 adds to wipe your group.

    AE attacks like that scream of action combat EZ gameplay to me. Yes pure speculation on my part, but I am pretty sure EQN will not be a very hard game.

     

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Drakynn
    Originally posted by velmax
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    "I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

     

    They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

     

    not surprising at all.

    Look at the combat skills - facerolling AE into enemies, there is no pulling and splitting mob mechanic in EQN (like classic EQ1). dodge out of red circles and AE spam the mobs.

    EQN will not be a hard game like eq1 - it will be easy mode.

    Granted this could change but from the looks of AE skills, I expect EZ mode game.

    How do u know? Have u played the game? They clearly haven't revealed everything of the game yet.

    Also people don't seem to understand how demo's like this work they were demonstrating the tech and so make things easy because they don't need to characters dying and pausing the demo.Not to mention that a lot of the mobs clearly had no AI and were just fodder.Judging the difficulty of the final game from what was shown is an exercise in foolishness.

    Now the game may turn out to be everything you and I fear but you can't tell from what was shown.

    Imagine any character in classic EQ1 having that whirlwind attack - yeah breaking mez, and getting 20 adds to wipe your group.

    AE attacks like that scream of action combat EZ gameplay to me. Yes pure speculation on my part, but I am pretty sure EQN will not be a very hard game.

     

    um using AoE effectively in groups is old hat.This demo was just showing off some select abilities from 2 classes in the game in an area designed to be easy to showcase them in.I/m not saying you may not be right just you can take none of that away from watching this focused demo.Your certainly free to speculate though just as long as you are prepared to be wrong which you should always be when speculating on anything.

  • buckeyebuckeye tipp city, OHPosts: 70Member Uncommon
    To put it in Smed terms...it's not Metal....it's more like bubble-gum Pop
  • KiyorisKiyoris BejingPosts: 965Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by buckeye
    To put it in Smed terms...it's not Metal....it's more like bubble-gum Pop

    lol

    ]

  • RemyVorenderRemyVorender Riverside, RIPosts: 3,266Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    "I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

     

    They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

     

    not surprising at all.

    Look at the combat skills - facerolling AE into enemies, there is no pulling and splitting mob mechanic in EQN (like classic EQ1). dodge out of red circles and AE spam the mobs.

    EQN will not be a hard game like eq1 - it will be easy mode.

    Granted this could change but from the looks of AE skills, I expect EZ mode game.

     

    You say that like you're surprised.

    The people that still want a hardcore game in this day and age will have to rest there hopes and dreams on small crowdfunded indie dev teams, because the big budget studios are making games that they think will be the most profitable.

    Played: AA, AC1, AC2, Aion, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
    ESO, FE, FFXI, FFXIV, FF, GW1, GW2, Istaria, L2, LoTRO, MO, MxO, NW, Rift, RoE,
    Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  • FratmanFratman Bumpkinville, WYPosts: 344Member
    It's going to be on the PS4, so we already knew it can't be hardcore. Console and hardcore mmo don't even belong in the same sentence.
  • NagelRitterNagelRitter fewefw, CTPosts: 607Member

    Of course it won't be hardcore. Hardcore implies Darkfall or EVE or something. I don't want that, either.

    Originally posted by Fratman
    It's going to be on the PS4, so we already knew it can't be hardcore. Console and hardcore mmo don't even belong in the same sentence.

    Have you played any of the Souls games?

    Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
    Currently playing: GW2, EVE
    Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  • FratmanFratman Bumpkinville, WYPosts: 344Member
    Originally posted by NagelRitter

    Of course it won't be hardcore. Hardcore implies Darkfall or EVE or something. I don't want that, either.

    Originally posted by Fratman
    It's going to be on the PS4, so we already knew it can't be hardcore. Console and hardcore mmo don't even belong in the same sentence.

    Have you played any of the Souls games?

    Are they mmos? No, I haven't.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Fratman
    Originally posted by NagelRitter

    Of course it won't be hardcore. Hardcore implies Darkfall or EVE or something. I don't want that, either.

    Originally posted by Fratman
    It's going to be on the PS4, so we already knew it can't be hardcore. Console and hardcore mmo don't even belong in the same sentence.

    Have you played any of the Souls games?

    Are they mmos? No, I haven't.

    They are not MMOS but they are more hardcore than any MMO out there difficulty wise and very popular.

  • DrakephireDrakephire Fontana, CAPosts: 445Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Biskop

    Yeah, shame on SOE for wanting a commercially viable product! After all, they do have a responsibility to provide "hardcore" nolifers with the game of their dreams.

    You know, a game can be "hardcore" (meaning complex, difficult, and rewarding time investment) and yet accesible. For example, the core game mechanics and basic features can be simple and intuitive while high-end content is hard and demanding. A player can then chose which level of difficulty he/she wants to engage.

    But I guess some people still think "hardcore" = long grind + harsh death penalties + tedious mechanics that anyone with a life and a job will shun, and if a game does not abide by those 1999 design standards it is to be considered a kid's game and a WoW clone.

     

    Agreed with you mate.

    The hardcore players I'm reading here seem to want a sugar daddy to pony up 50-100 million dollars to make a beautiful game that only they and a few thousand of their hardcore buddies can play.

    It is false to conflate 'hardcore' with difficulty...which the hardcore crowd loves to do. One can make a difficult, challenging game that is also accessible and dare I say casual friendly. 

  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member
    Originally posted by Drakynn
    Originally posted by Fratman
    Originally posted by NagelRitter

    Of course it won't be hardcore. Hardcore implies Darkfall or EVE or something. I don't want that, either.

    Originally posted by Fratman
    It's going to be on the PS4, so we already knew it can't be hardcore. Console and hardcore mmo don't even belong in the same sentence.

    Have you played any of the Souls games?

    Are they mmos? No, I haven't.

    They are not MMOS but they are more hardcore than any MMO out there difficulty wise and very popular.

    I have...and I love them..

     

    Now someone steer away from this childish wussy garbage and make one an MMO.

  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Zod, CAPosts: 743Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fratman
    Originally posted by NagelRitter

    Of course it won't be hardcore. Hardcore implies Darkfall or EVE or something. I don't want that, either.

    Originally posted by Fratman
    It's going to be on the PS4, so we already knew it can't be hardcore. Console and hardcore mmo don't even belong in the same sentence.

    Have you played any of the Souls games?

    Are they mmos? No, I haven't.

    The souls are really more of an MO-RPG...

    and its not really hardcore but its a good start.

    image
  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member
    Originally posted by Drakephire
    Originally posted by Biskop

    Yeah, shame on SOE for wanting a commercially viable product! After all, they do have a responsibility to provide "hardcore" nolifers with the game of their dreams.

    You know, a game can be "hardcore" (meaning complex, difficult, and rewarding time investment) and yet accesible. For example, the core game mechanics and basic features can be simple and intuitive while high-end content is hard and demanding. A player can then chose which level of difficulty he/she wants to engage.

    But I guess some people still think "hardcore" = long grind + harsh death penalties + tedious mechanics that anyone with a life and a job will shun, and if a game does not abide by those 1999 design standards it is to be considered a kid's game and a WoW clone.

     

    Agreed with you mate.

    The hardcore players I'm reading here seem to want a sugar daddy to pony up 50-100 million dollars to make a beautiful game that only they and a few thousand of their hardcore buddies can play.

    It is false to conflate 'hardcore' with difficulty...which the hardcore crowd loves to do. One can make a difficult, challenging game that is also accessible and dare I say casual friendly. 

    can you provide proof on those numbers?

  • NagelRitterNagelRitter fewefw, CTPosts: 607Member

    I'm just trying to deal with the strange idea that all action console games are easy (there are very few console MMO's out there so that point is rather moot anyway) and that you can't make a challenging game with action combat (didn't everyone whine about GW2 for forever and it got nerfed?). It's some stupid idea that comes from elitism. Bash the game all you want, but use arguments that make any shred of sense and are not pure ignorance. If you think Souls games are easy I want to see your Platinum trophy.

    Originally posted by Drakephire

    Agreed with you mate.

    The hardcore players I'm reading here seem to want a sugar daddy to pony up 50-100 million dollars to make a beautiful game that only they and a few thousand of their hardcore buddies can play.

    It is false to conflate 'hardcore' with difficulty...which the hardcore crowd loves to do. One can make a difficult, challenging game that is also accessible and dare I say casual friendly. 

    Indeed. My impression with EQN is when they say it's not hardcore, they mean it won't be a long grind forever and ever, and it probably won't be FFA PvP is what I would guess.

    They didn't really choose the best combat elements to demonstrate the game's difficulty, but it doesn't mean it won't exist. Tbh, it looked like too early to tell with those rats standing still, does the game even have AI yet?

     

    Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
    Currently playing: GW2, EVE
    Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,459Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    "I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

     

    They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

     

    lol, I've said this from the beginning; they want/need to cater to as large a group as possible. For some reason players made up their own little story.

    Oh, I'm sure there is going to be a lot to this game but some players like to hone in on specific words that these devs say and then imbut them with their own definitions/meaning.

    Just wait until the pvp info starts rolling in.

  • FratmanFratman Bumpkinville, WYPosts: 344Member
    Originally posted by Drakynn
    Originally posted by Fratman
    Originally posted by NagelRitter

    Of course it won't be hardcore. Hardcore implies Darkfall or EVE or something. I don't want that, either.

    Originally posted by Fratman
    It's going to be on the PS4, so we already knew it can't be hardcore. Console and hardcore mmo don't even belong in the same sentence.

    Have you played any of the Souls games?

    Are they mmos? No, I haven't.

    They are not MMOS but they are more hardcore than any MMO out there difficulty wise and very popular.

    Fascinating. But I specifically said hardcore mmos and consoles don't go together.

  • diabeldiabel KoszalinPosts: 26Member
    1. The reason for creating a MMORPG is profit and not kittens and rainbows.
    2. SOE presented a flashy tech demo with no real AI. No where was it mentioned that the NPC's will stand still and all be killed with one hit.
    3. Lack of actual confirmed facts is making people jump to their own conclusions. A pointless cycle.
  • NagelRitterNagelRitter fewefw, CTPosts: 607Member
    Originally posted by Fratman

    Fascinating. But I specifically said hardcore mmos and consoles don't go together.

    And you're an authority on this because...?

    Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
    Currently playing: GW2, EVE
    Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  • seacow1gseacow1g Savannah, GAPosts: 254Member
    Originally posted by Margulis

    Here is the link to the interview where he says this:

    http://www.usgamer.net/articles/everquest-nexts-terry-michaels-you-wont-get-snake-skins-coming-from-gnolls-

    Ok well I've officially lost all interest in this game. Easiness is the single biggest deal breaker for me. It's my opinion that casualness is what destroyed the MMO genre and any game that doesn't seek to remedy this will not be getting any of my money. I'm not arguing that a game needs to involve huge grinds or tedious activities in order to be good, but if the gameplay itself is not harsh and punishing of mistakes then rewards just feel meaningless. Casual and Hardmode versions of the same content does not remedy this either as it ruins immersion and cheapens the sense of reward for the players that do play the hardmode content. All I want is a AAA mmo for hardcore players but I guess that's too tall of an order.

    image
  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Zod, CAPosts: 743Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    "I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

     

    They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

     

    lol, I've said this from the beginning; they want/need to cater to as large a group as possible. For some reason players made up their own little story.

    Oh, I'm sure there is going to be a lot to this game but some players like to hone in on specific words that these devs say and then imbut them with their own definitions/meaning.

    Just wait until the pvp info starts rolling in.

    Come on Sovrath...

    Granted you were right from the start, however the whole "wait until the pvp info comes in" is a cop out.

    We both know all PvP looks good on paper .. hence GW2

     

    image
  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    "I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people"

     

    They should have said they were making a children's MMO right off the bat.

     

    lol, I've said this from the beginning; they want/need to cater to as large a group as possible. For some reason players made up their own little story.

    Oh, I'm sure there is going to be a lot to this game but some players like to hone in on specific words that these devs say and then imbut them with their own definitions/meaning.

    Just wait until the pvp info starts rolling in.

    Or its people who hope that for once,a company will release something truly different and more their style.Then having that hope continuously stomped on because companies keep catering to the population of lemmings introduced by WoW.

  • azarhalazarhal Somewhere, BCPosts: 761Member Uncommon

    So how many people have actually read the "interview"? Because the title is leaving quite a bit of context.

    "Well, risk and reward is what MMOs are all about. I would not call this game a hardcore MMO. We want something that is accessible to a larger number of people but we want to make sure it's balanced with good gameplay and interesting things that will keep people interested." 

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