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We speculated way beyond their development

DullahanDullahan Posts: 2,056Member Uncommon

Though I enjoyed the EQN keynote, and am really impressed by their ideas, the showing today was nothing but a proof of concept with little proof, and very little actual development.  No aspect of this game seems to be finished outside their general ideas.  Like alpha alpha.  You could tell the scenario that they had for combat had no UI, no real abilities, no mob AI, and I have my doubts as to whether they were actually even controlling the characters.

I'm looking forward to the game still, and will definitely try out EQN Landmark, but it just seems like all of the features we've been hoping for have hardly even come into consideration yet.  In the panels, they opted out of answering a ton of questions, and other questions they just straight up said they do not know, or don't have plans for it yet.  I mean stuff like combat systems, rulesets and whether there will even be PvP.  Of course they don't know whether theres PvP, rulesets or anything else, they don't even have their classes ironed out, their abilities or a combat system developed.

Never been so let down over something I actually like and look forward to.  So much for Smed's comments about we'll be seeing the game this year.  (and don't give me that Landmark bull, that comment was in the context of EQN itself!)

 


Comments

  • karat76karat76 Wellston, OHPosts: 1,000Member Uncommon
    You are most likely right. From what I saw we will be lucky to see it by end of 14.
  • Redfeather75Redfeather75 Guelph, ONPosts: 182Member

    I loved the reveal, but totally agree.
    Analyzing what was shown today puts them a lot less further in development than I thought.

    They have environments and environment manipulation, character models and animations, and mobility across the environment. Looking like it is the bare essentials for releasing EQN Landmark later this year.

  • jerlot65jerlot65 Lake Mary, FLPosts: 788Member

    they told you they scrapped everything except for the lightforge engine only two years ago many times before SOE Live.  Were you expecting a beta version of EQN?

    You know MMO's are known to take up to 5 years to develop right?

    image
  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon

    Blizzards Titan might come out before this game .

     

    Blizzard has the money and the resources to pump out a EQN clone which is better and has what we want in it .

     

     

  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,657Member Uncommon

    Sounds like they really want our input this time around. From literally helping make the game with Landmark to providing feedback and communicating with the devs.

    I think this is a great plan. Let us make the game for them. Sucks for those that just want to pay $50 and install it, but many would love the chance to have an actual impact on the game they will invest years of their life into.

    I'm sure they have a lot more up their sleeves, but at the same time it is obvious they aren't finished and have a lot of work to do.

    EQN is a new concept, not 100% original, but nothing like it out there. Landmark, beta, release and beyond will be different then any game before from what I can see.

    No need to have people beta testing millions of quests or figuring out class balance or a lot of things that bog down traditional mmos. EQN seems like it will always be a work in progress. They could release the game with no quests and when we can't find them, just get told to look harder...how would we know.

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    I agree.  Their comments that they kept it in the black box to get a sizeable lead on the competition isn't really matching their progress.  I would speculate it was actually more to do with it took until now to even have enough information and progress done to be able to discuss it and show it.
  • DullahanDullahan Posts: 2,056Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jerlot65

    they told you they scrapped everything except for the lightforge engine only two years ago many times before SOE Live.  Were you expecting a beta version of EQN?

    You know MMO's are known to take up to 5 years to develop right?

    They scrapped part of it, but not the assets.  The underlying gameplay ideas changed, that is all.

    When Smed said we'll be playing it this year, and he doesn't mean beta, I believed him.  I trust he actually believed this as well, but it seems he was wrong.


  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    I agree - tech demo is not the "playable" version Smed alluded to at SOE Live last October

     

    regardless, I am looking forward to playing/using EQN Landmark and beyond

  • DullahanDullahan Posts: 2,056Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Allein

    Sounds like they really want our input this time around. From literally helping make the game with Landmark to providing feedback and communicating with the devs.

    I think this is a great plan. Let us make the game for them. Sucks for those that just want to pay $50 and install it, but many would love the chance to have an actual impact on the game they will invest years of their life into.

    I'm sure they have a lot more up their sleeves, but at the same time it is obvious they aren't finished and have a lot of work to do.

    EQN is a new concept, not 100% original, but nothing like it out there. Landmark, beta, release and beyond will be different then any game before from what I can see.

    No need to have people beta testing millions of quests or figuring out class balance or a lot of things that bog down traditional mmos. EQN seems like it will always be a work in progress. They could release the game with no quests and when we can't find them, just get told to look harder...how would we know.

    I personally believe all that feedback thing is just a way of making up for not having a product developed and even near ready.

    I also don't want them to talk to players, because most players have absolutely no idea what makes a good MMO.  I hardly trust SOE to make another good MMO, let alone a bunch of kids who never played anything outside of xbox and WoW.  Look no further than the most popular MMOs on the market, and that is the "pool of knowledge" that player suggestions will come from.  I shiver at such a horrible thought.  

    Before they ever open themselves to a single suggestion, they need to have the important things publicly set in stone. Then the fluff they can open to player input.


  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Originally posted by Allein

    Sounds like they really want our input this time around. From literally helping make the game with Landmark to providing feedback and communicating with the devs.

    I think this is a great plan. Let us make the game for them. Sucks for those that just want to pay $50 and install it, but many would love the chance to have an actual impact on the game they will invest years of their life into.

    I'm sure they have a lot more up their sleeves, but at the same time it is obvious they aren't finished and have a lot of work to do.

    EQN is a new concept, not 100% original, but nothing like it out there. Landmark, beta, release and beyond will be different then any game before from what I can see.

    No need to have people beta testing millions of quests or figuring out class balance or a lot of things that bog down traditional mmos. EQN seems like it will always be a work in progress. They could release the game with no quests and when we can't find them, just get told to look harder...how would we know.

    I personally believe all that feedback thing is just a way of making up for not having a product developed and even near ready.

    I also don't want them to talk to players, because most players have absolutely no idea what makes a good MMO.  I hardly trust SOE to make another good MMO, let alone a bunch of kids who never played anything outside of xbox and WoW.  Look no further than the most popular MMOs on the market, and that is the "pool of knowledge" that player suggestions will come from.  I shiver at such a horrible thought.  

    Before they ever open themselves to a single suggestion, they need to have the important things publicly set in stone. Then the fluff they can open to player input.

    Most players also don't spend hours and hours on forums and providing feedback to devs either. They are too busy actually playing games.

    Seems the consensus on this forum is WoW and anyone that played it is a ADD child with no common sense of what is good (even though many claim to have played for years, but it is terrible since they left).

    Where are theses people at? I don't believe I've read one single thread/post from someone in this forum that came off as some huge WoW fanboi going against all that is holy to the EQ/Sandbox world.

    Again, they are still playing WoW or whatever game all of us deem unworthy of our time.

    To assume those horrible horrible children will take time away from pwning each other in WoW to create something in Landmark or have a discussion with devs seems far fetched.

    This is why I'm glad they are doing it, even if it is a smoke screen. Hopefully people actually interested in making a positive impact will do so.

  • mos0811mos0811 Sacramento, CAPosts: 173Member
    Originally posted by Allein

    Sounds like they really want our input this time around. From literally helping make the game with Landmark to providing feedback and communicating with the devs.

    I think this is a great plan. Let us make the game for them. Sucks for those that just want to pay $50 and install it, but many would love the chance to have an actual impact on the game they will invest years of their life into.

    I'm sure they have a lot more up their sleeves, but at the same time it is obvious they aren't finished and have a lot of work to do.

    EQN is a new concept, not 100% original, but nothing like it out there. Landmark, beta, release and beyond will be different then any game before from what I can see.

    No need to have people beta testing millions of quests or figuring out class balance or a lot of things that bog down traditional mmos. EQN seems like it will always be a work in progress. They could release the game with no quests and when we can't find them, just get told to look harder...how would we know.

    They are going to the players to have us make the game for them.  They admitted themselves they can't turn out content fast enough, so now they go to the community and if content isn't coming out fast enough they blame us.  We have just become SOE's scapegoat.

    From my experience the only long lasting content is PvP content, which is why I'm really sad in the direction they are taking.  Give players the tools to create conflict and resolve that conflict and the game could be made once with no updates and continue for years.  What they are doing is still scripting a story and having us follow along.  They are still not allowing the players to build the story like in EvE's 0.0.

    It's my opinion that they are releasing Landmark so we can help them finish developing items.  I can't wait to see the tears when little Johnny doesn't get his item put into EQN proper because it either doesn't fit into EQN, the polycount is astronomical, or it looks like something a cat puked up. (No offense to any real live persons named Johnny)  Landmark will be the testing ground where I envision anything going, while only a fraction of that will ever make it into EQN proper.

    My prediction for release of EQN proper - May 2014.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,437Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Originally posted by Allein

    Sounds like they really want our input this time around. From literally helping make the game with Landmark to providing feedback and communicating with the devs.

    I think this is a great plan. Let us make the game for them. Sucks for those that just want to pay $50 and install it, but many would love the chance to have an actual impact on the game they will invest years of their life into.

    I'm sure they have a lot more up their sleeves, but at the same time it is obvious they aren't finished and have a lot of work to do.

    EQN is a new concept, not 100% original, but nothing like it out there. Landmark, beta, release and beyond will be different then any game before from what I can see.

    No need to have people beta testing millions of quests or figuring out class balance or a lot of things that bog down traditional mmos. EQN seems like it will always be a work in progress. They could release the game with no quests and when we can't find them, just get told to look harder...how would we know.

    I personally believe all that feedback thing is just a way of making up for not having a product developed and even near ready.

    You make it sound like they had a deadline. They already scrapped the game twice, clearly they could have pushed the announcement back however long they wanted. Also, considering the last scrapped concept was similar to EQ2 there was probably very little as far as assets and gameplay they could keep. Sure most of the concept art was kept I am sure. Character models. But the world is destructible now and absolutely nothing like EQ2. They went from a static world concept to a procedurally generated one. You think they were able to keep most of that stuff easily? Really?

    That's akin to saying Blizzard scrapped WoW to turn it into Minecraft and was able to keep all the old stuff they made. It doesn't work like that when you are talking about an entirely different system.

    image
  • alyosha17alyosha17 ergftmjhkPosts: 156Member

    It basically looks like vapourware at this point.  Zero proof.

     

    GW2 talked big before release too.

     

    At least Black Desert shows proof of their concepts working in videos before ranting about them.

  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by alyosha17

    It basically looks like vapourware at this point.  Zero proof.

     

    GW2 talked big before release too.

     

    At least Black Desert shows proof of their concepts working in videos before ranting about them.

    Can you direct me to a Black Desert proof video? Or you talking about all the flybys and 5 sec combat clips? Game looks interesting but it is 2015 at the very earliest, if it even comes to NA. Every time I see a video I'm just baffled how they claim to be able to have huge battles with those graphics. 100 tech demo npcs aren't the same as 100 players.

    GW2 talked big and delivered. I still get confused by all the GW2/SWTOR complaining. SWTOR promised story story story and delivered (why I never thought about buying it) and GW2 gives decent PVE with good PVP arenas and pretty good WvWvW action. Wasn't what many wanted, but I don't they did any bait and switch type stuff.

  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,623Member Uncommon

    Oh please enlighten us on how PvP provides the only lasting content!

    Oh yes, in your mind it does of course.  From a player base perspective though I think your statement rings a bit false.   Oh wait here it comes....EVE.   Thank heavens for EVE or you guys wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

    I don't disagree that you can have some meaningful PvP in a game.  I think the thing that keeps EVE going strong is that it is not kiddie or ganker friendly.  There is a strong learning curve and a required time sink in order to be successful.  Not what the average antisocial player is looking for.  And difficult to have an impact as a solo ganker also.

    As for EQN, unfortunately the antisocials are going to have an easier time of it.   My guess is that Sony is going to add a PvP only server, and probably use that to gauge what the real response to this type of gameplay is, in a game like EQN.  It will likely give PvP players more options than they have had in the past, I hope.  It should also  be a "polished game", which is a stupid but frequent argument I have heard against PvP games recently. (Sorry you are just gonna have to get past the graphics thing I guess people)   Not sure what rulesets they will come up with to govern it, but I think this is a big responsibility on the serious PvP players to get out and support this kind of effort instead of dissing it like they have done with everything else that has come their way, these past years.   When a triple AAA MMO offers PvP in any form you better step up and take notice!

    IMO if EQN makes an attempt to deliver open world PvP then players should step up and support it instead of whining that it lacks this or has too much of that!  Support it and make suggestions to improve it, instead of complaining and ignoring it, and hopefully we will see another game besides EVE, have something we can call successful open world PvP.

    Just my 2 cents as a concerned care bear!

     

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by alyosha17

    It basically looks like vapourware at this point.  Zero proof.

     

    GW2 talked big before release too.

     

    At least Black Desert shows proof of their concepts working in videos before ranting about them.

    Can you direct me to a Black Desert proof video? Or you talking about all the flybys and 5 sec combat clips? Game looks interesting but it is 2015 at the very earliest, if it even comes to NA. Every time I see a video I'm just baffled how they claim to be able to have huge battles with those graphics. 100 tech demo npcs aren't the same as 100 players.

    GW2 talked big and delivered. I still get confused by all the GW2/SWTOR complaining. SWTOR promised story story story and delivered (why I never thought about buying it) and GW2 gives decent PVE with good PVP arenas and pretty good WvWvW action. Wasn't what many wanted, but I don't they did any bait and switch type stuff.

    You honestly are baffled by SWTOR complaining?  Story is the ONLY thing it delivered on, apparently at the sacrifice of everything else.

  • jerlot65jerlot65 Lake Mary, FLPosts: 788Member
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by alyosha17

    It basically looks like vapourware at this point.  Zero proof.

     

    GW2 talked big before release too.

     

    At least Black Desert shows proof of their concepts working in videos before ranting about them.

    Can you direct me to a Black Desert proof video? Or you talking about all the flybys and 5 sec combat clips? Game looks interesting but it is 2015 at the very earliest, if it even comes to NA. Every time I see a video I'm just baffled how they claim to be able to have huge battles with those graphics. 100 tech demo npcs aren't the same as 100 players.

    GW2 talked big and delivered. I still get confused by all the GW2/SWTOR complaining. SWTOR promised story story story and delivered (why I never thought about buying it) and GW2 gives decent PVE with good PVP arenas and pretty good WvWvW action. Wasn't what many wanted, but I don't they did any bait and switch type stuff.

    Thanks, was going to say the same thing...... proof

    image
  • BeyornBeyorn Canton, GAPosts: 249Member Uncommon
    So is EQ Next and EQ Next: Landmarks two different games?
  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Margulis
    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by alyosha17

    It basically looks like vapourware at this point.  Zero proof.

     

    GW2 talked big before release too.

     

    At least Black Desert shows proof of their concepts working in videos before ranting about them.

    Can you direct me to a Black Desert proof video? Or you talking about all the flybys and 5 sec combat clips? Game looks interesting but it is 2015 at the very earliest, if it even comes to NA. Every time I see a video I'm just baffled how they claim to be able to have huge battles with those graphics. 100 tech demo npcs aren't the same as 100 players.

    GW2 talked big and delivered. I still get confused by all the GW2/SWTOR complaining. SWTOR promised story story story and delivered (why I never thought about buying it) and GW2 gives decent PVE with good PVP arenas and pretty good WvWvW action. Wasn't what many wanted, but I don't they did any bait and switch type stuff.

    You honestly are baffled by SWTOR complaining?  Story is the ONLY thing it delivered on, apparently at the sacrifice of everything else.

    I admit I didn't follow it all the closely, but I was keeping an eye on it up until release and their focus on story really turned me off. Guess I didn't assume the rest of the game would make up for it like others did.

    Not once did the PVP or just general game play seem fresh or original. The story line was about it and from what I've heard, it was okay. Seemed more like a bunch of people following blindly to the light of Bioware and the Star Wars IP.

  • mos0811mos0811 Sacramento, CAPosts: 173Member
    Originally posted by Beyorn
    So is EQ Next and EQ Next: Landmarks two different games?

    Technically yes; but Landmark seems like it will feed into EQN proper.  So far Landmark is where the player ownership will happen, it's where the player creation will happen and where the player content will be made.  When SOE finds a few items that are worth being ported to EQN proper they will put them in that game.

    But this is still speculation based on what was seen today, and the Murphey article.

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member

    At least they showed us something and revealed a lot about the core concepts of the game. It's still early in development, hence no long videos with massive amounts of players, finished cities, dungeons, etc. This game is in pre-alpha afaik so it's just silly to expect beta level of info at this point.

    If they had held back this reveal until they had more to show, people would have whined about them being too secretive and "not open" and whatnot. You just can't please some people I guess...

  • DullahanDullahan Posts: 2,056Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Originally posted by Allein

    Sounds like they really want our input this time around. From literally helping make the game with Landmark to providing feedback and communicating with the devs.

    I think this is a great plan. Let us make the game for them. Sucks for those that just want to pay $50 and install it, but many would love the chance to have an actual impact on the game they will invest years of their life into.

    I'm sure they have a lot more up their sleeves, but at the same time it is obvious they aren't finished and have a lot of work to do.

    EQN is a new concept, not 100% original, but nothing like it out there. Landmark, beta, release and beyond will be different then any game before from what I can see.

    No need to have people beta testing millions of quests or figuring out class balance or a lot of things that bog down traditional mmos. EQN seems like it will always be a work in progress. They could release the game with no quests and when we can't find them, just get told to look harder...how would we know.

    I personally believe all that feedback thing is just a way of making up for not having a product developed and even near ready.

    You make it sound like they had a deadline. They already scrapped the game twice, clearly they could have pushed the announcement back however long they wanted. Also, considering the last scrapped concept was similar to EQ2 there was probably very little as far as assets and gameplay they could keep. Sure most of the concept art was kept I am sure. Character models. But the world is destructible now and absolutely nothing like EQ2. They went from a static world concept to a procedurally generated one. You think they were able to keep most of that stuff easily? Really?

    That's akin to saying Blizzard scrapped WoW to turn it into Minecraft and was able to keep all the old stuff they made. It doesn't work like that when you are talking about an entirely different system.

    Yes, when Smed said we'll be playing it this year, and not a beta, I did consider that to be a deadline.  He was referring to EQ Next too, not EQN Landmark.  I understand though, development always talks longer, but as much as I like their ideas, I'm disappointed in their progress.

    Originally posted by Allein
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Originally posted by Allein

    Sounds like they really want our input this time around. From literally helping make the game with Landmark to providing feedback and communicating with the devs.

    I think this is a great plan. Let us make the game for them. Sucks for those that just want to pay $50 and install it, but many would love the chance to have an actual impact on the game they will invest years of their life into.

    I'm sure they have a lot more up their sleeves, but at the same time it is obvious they aren't finished and have a lot of work to do.

    EQN is a new concept, not 100% original, but nothing like it out there. Landmark, beta, release and beyond will be different then any game before from what I can see.

    No need to have people beta testing millions of quests or figuring out class balance or a lot of things that bog down traditional mmos. EQN seems like it will always be a work in progress. They could release the game with no quests and when we can't find them, just get told to look harder...how would we know.

    I personally believe all that feedback thing is just a way of making up for not having a product developed and even near ready.

    I also don't want them to talk to players, because most players have absolutely no idea what makes a good MMO.  I hardly trust SOE to make another good MMO, let alone a bunch of kids who never played anything outside of xbox and WoW.  Look no further than the most popular MMOs on the market, and that is the "pool of knowledge" that player suggestions will come from.  I shiver at such a horrible thought.  

    Before they ever open themselves to a single suggestion, they need to have the important things publicly set in stone. Then the fluff they can open to player input.

    Most players also don't spend hours and hours on forums and providing feedback to devs either. They are too busy actually playing games.

    Seems the consensus on this forum is WoW and anyone that played it is a ADD child with no common sense of what is good (even though many claim to have played for years, but it is terrible since they left).

    Where are theses people at? I don't believe I've read one single thread/post from someone in this forum that came off as some huge WoW fanboi going against all that is holy to the EQ/Sandbox world.

    Again, they are still playing WoW or whatever game all of us deem unworthy of our time.

    To assume those horrible horrible children will take time away from pwning each other in WoW to create something in Landmark or have a discussion with devs seems far fetched.

    This is why I'm glad they are doing it, even if it is a smoke screen. Hopefully people actually interested in making a positive impact will do so.

    I hope you're right, that it will be just the EQ fans shaping EQN, but I think its wishful thinking.  Even the people on this forum seem to have no concept of what made Everquest great, or how far away in the themepark direction they've departed.

    No thanks.  I'd rather have Jeff Butler hammer out the details that he likes, things that players loved in past games like EQ and Vanguard, things that they KNOW work, and then consider feedback on the rest.

    Honestly I feel like they've tried so hard to be innovative, now they can't see the forest for the trees.  They unable to answer simple questions about PvP, dungeons or rulesets, because its way beyond the scope of their one big innovative idea.  Tell tale signs.

    We will see I guess.  Two days of Q&A but I have a feeling it will only reveal how early they are in the dev process.


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