You people arguing saying these things have been done before and "what is really soo innovative about the features" need to just step away and get out of MMORPG gaming altogether I supposed. All of these features in the 4 holy grails are brand new to s game containing all of them together at the same time. I have played MANY MMORPGS and I have never heard of the different levels of terrain, adaptive NPCS who change locations and don't just spawn every 15 minutes, destructible terrain and environments and stuff like this is amazing, whether you guys arguing just to troll or act immature just need to get the hell out of here already. This stuff is going to revolutionize the genre. So trolls stop trolling. Forget what you know and jump into the world of Everquest Next like I will be doing coming from years of EQ, EQOA, and EQ 2 as well as many other mmorpgs. These features in tandem will make for an amazing gaming experience.
People just don't seem to see that there is innovation within genre, and technological innovation, they're two separate things. EQN is taking many aspects that have been exclusive to certain types of games, and infusing another genre with them, innovating on what has been done in that genre (in this case MMO's). Up until now MMO's have largely been static, lifeless, games that have used tricks to accomplish what will now no longer be an illusion. You're really going under ground, that NPC is freely attacking that camp or village, your character is really climbing that obstacle. You're actually building/maintaining, and possibly defending that castle.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
DO not recall an MMO ever having the ability to have non scripted artificial intelligence that responds one way to someone and another way to someone else. Never played an MMO where consequences mattered, i.e. Want to play a Paladin, then you better freaking behave like one or the class option may never become available to you. I also do not ever playing an MMO where everything about the world is buildable and destructible. Seriously there is just so many innovative elements its pointless to showcase to someone who cant see the obvious.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Most of the people that are hating dont even care about the new kinds of features the game is offering because their too stuck on the fact that they just hate the graphics style and they cant get past that regardless of how cool the other features are.
Innovative stuff in a MMORPG (please not the game type). In most case they took something from another game (no necessarily a MMO) and altered/improved it.
Seamless world that can be permanently altered by player's actions (no GM required or xpac)
Player world destruction (only MMO I know where you can destroy the map when you don't own the server)
No levels
No spawn point for mobs
Mirror's Edge still movements, bringing new combat tactics (ex: running on walls)
The AI
The best of all though is how we will be able to deal with farming bots: open holes under them right to a lavabed.
Ooh. I LIKE that last one.
Another point for your bullet list:
Free-form multi-class system with dozens of classes whose trainers are part of the dynamically generated NPC/mob population and have to be discovered 'in the wild'
The devs would be free to add new classes almost at will... and there may be some elusive classes whose trainers you never DO encounter.
I'm not at all sure I'll like this game because of the combat scenes, but I have to give it to SOE that this game is very innovative.
We don't know how many tools we'll get from Landmark, but it sounds like we'll get some. The whole landmark system being available and being a world is pretty innovative. If you wanted to live in a crafting world that's it.
The destructable levels to the core is an awesome concept that might have been around, but it's never been done like this.
I've seen skill based games, but this multi class hodge podge is innovative even if I think it might backfire.
I'm closer to being a hater now than I was before the reveal, but I have to give them credit, they did show a very innovative game.
Originally posted by tkreep Most of the people that are hating dont even care about the new kinds of features the game is offering because their too stuck on the fact that they just hate the graphics style and they cant get past that regardless of how cool the other features are.
Exactly this.
"So what if you can do x, y, and z. LION KING LOL WOW CLONE"
Really like the combat. Everything was real time and just flowed well with the gameplay. As a free to play this games launch is going to be bigger then anything we have seen. The next big thing is Everquest Next.
Innovative stuff in a MMORPG (please not the game type). In most case they took something from another game (no necessarily a MMO) and altered/improved it.
Seamless world that can be permanently altered by player's actions (no GM required or xpac)
Player world destruction (only MMO I know where you can destroy the map when you don't own the server)
No levels
No spawn point for mobs
Mirror's Edge still movements, bringing new combat tactics (ex: running on walls)
The AI
The best of all though is how we will be able to deal with farming bots: open holes under them right to a lavabed.
Ooh. I LIKE that last one.
Another point for your bullet list:
Free-form multi-class system with dozens of classes whose trainers are part of the dynamically generated NPC/mob population and have to be discovered 'in the wild'
The devs would be free to add new classes almost at will... and there may be some elusive classes whose trainers you never DO encounter.
It was on my list, but I removed it, because it's not really new. It's like they took GW1 multi-classing with skill-hunting and removed the hand-holding and static presentation.
It is the reeses peanut butter cup of MMOs. They many not have invented chocolate or peanut butter, but damn did they find a great mix.
of course I would need a sample taste before I can validate this response.
In the end the used parts from many other games, and just mixed them up with an EQ flair. WoW did the same thing, and so have most games since. Although it does sound funny that they are copying a copy of their game.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
Not enough information for me. I love the ideas now its time to put it into action. Until we see that we're all speculating. I never decide to play a game based on its graphics.
Originally posted by Wakygreek If you have to ask what is so innovative about this reveal then you missed the entire reveal. When i finished watching it I shipped my pants.
This. All of the mechanics and elements we've seen before in other games, but never implemented like this before, and definitely not in this genre. I'm keeping my expectations tempered, but this game could really revolutionize the genre, like no game has since...EQ1?
There is nothing innovative about it if we are talking game industry. However, if we are talking specifically for the MMO genre, it's actually really innovative ... sort of. What do I mean by that?
Well, this has been thought of plenty of times. Heck, I am sure you and I, all of us, have thought of these ideas before. SoE just happened to decide and add them in their game. These ideas are nothing new, it's just been really difficult to figure out a proper way to implement these features in a single game while being a MMO at the same time.
This leads to the reason I am still not convinced. They showed the features, but they didn't show them actually working in a way they would be used. What do I mean? In an open world online setting. This could be one of those things that sounds good and looks fantastic on paper, but has loads of problems when done in practice. Any company can easily have pulled off what SoE did in a tech demo, however, not many can pull it off in an actual full game with out issue.
It has already been mentioned that their so called "Holy grails" are not unique really. The most crazy claim of all was their class system. This has been used before and is nothing new. It's not even new to the MMO genre at all. I don't like when companies out right ignore other games and act as if they are the first.
Besides that, I am most certainly interested in this game. It sounds fun. However, I am a skeptic, these ideas they threw to the table will not be so simple to put in a MMO setting. They will need to work out many issues.
Examples and questions: When you destroy some of the world it will regenerate itself. Does this happen no matter what? What if you are standing in a tunnel you made and afk? If it doesn't regenerate while standing in the way, could a player not use that as an exploit and as a troll / griefer? I could destroy a person home or castle and such, then stand in the way of it regenerating. Heck, a whole group could do that.
Those issues are just the tip of the ice burg. It baffles me how they are going to come up with a way to prevent all these.
Giving a car with wings sounds innovative, but it doesn't come without it's issues. It may not be very practical in the end, and only time will tell if it can even be done at all in a safe and intuitive manner. I feel the same applies to EQN.
If they pull this off, I will admit, this game is going to be pretty darn neat, and most certainly will be innovative in the mmo genre. It could even become a standard for future MMOs. Though, I some how doubt this is going to work as they imagined just because I can come up with an issue with every fix to another issue. They very well may have to ignore some issues and hope it doesn't get in the way.
"destructable terrain" is going to be the next big buzzword for animated doorway. There is a reason why Minecraft looks like it's graphics came off an Atari 2600. The 3D power needed just to render a world that has 100% real destructable terrain is enormous. There is no way this is possible in EQN, I am betting is a type of phasing overlaid on the real world that resets after a respawn period. Or that the destructable terrain is only in specific spots where there is a need for it. At the end of the day when all is said and done. It's going to be another one of those .........yawn....."innovations that's great for 10 minutes then it loses it's "shiny".
I felt that the presentation was very well done, and that the features were literally ground breaking. For the simple fact that the game will age and evolve over time from the rally calls will compel me to be a regular player and contributor. The mix-n-match aspect of the class design will keep me engaged as I try to find a blend that suits my particular tastes. (I am far from a "flavor of the month" player). While that's not a new concept, it's just another ingredient, and a welcome one.
I was also quite impressed with the movement. It looks fun to explore, giving life to the phrase "getting there is half the fun". The voxels and tiered world design is almost hard to wrap my head around when I try to think of the possibilities.
The features aren't all innovative, granted. But all of what has been shown are very welcome. For example, just because the "day/night cycle" isn't anything new, it's worth seeing and knowing that it's included. What I mean to say is: if SOE only shows features they believe are brand new in the genre, people will start to question if the game has "Feature X" or "System Y". ("Yes, but does it have a travel power? A mail system? Day/night cycle? Yadda and so forth).
SOE seems genuinely passionate about their product. Why shouldn't they be? We've only seen a small part of a grand plan. If they keep up the pace of information like Smedley claims, we're going to be swimming in information soon enough.
It's going to be a fun and exciting ride towards launch.
I will not go so far as to say there is no innovation in this game because clearly there is. The things that disturb me about this game so far is the fact that it is F2P, which generally means that it will be instanced to death and split into two different gaming experiences. The PvP side and the (Generally Shallow) PvE side. I hope they can change this trend but the PvE in most F2P mmos is absolute garbage.
Also the fact that nothing about the game in its current state actually says mmo. As it currently stands from what they have shown it currently appears to be an online hack and slash game with a few rpg elements thrown in. Again I will reserve judgement until they actually show us a bit more than a few tech demos but I was very underwhelmed. At first I was very high on the "fully destructable" world but after a bit more thought about it wouldn't that lead to some of the ugliest areas ever seen in gaming?
If you see no innovation here you need to visit an oculist because it's a PBKAC at this point...
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
"destructable terrain" is going to be the next big buzzword for animated doorway. There is a reason why Minecraft looks like it's graphics came off an Atari 2600.
Yes, because Notch really, really, really sucks at programming and openly admitted it. He also found the style had a bit of a charm, which it does. MC has tons of random errors such as memory overexpenses and crashing into JVM limits. It's a poorly written game.
Don't spread misinformation, please.
There are limitations to destructible terrain obviously, but you don't talk about that when you have horrific code on motherfucking JAVA.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
I will not go so far as to say there is no innovation in this game because clearly there is. The things that disturb me about this game so far is the fact that it is F2P, which generally means that it will be instanced to death and split into two different gaming experiences. The PvP side and the (Generally Shallow) PvE side. I hope they can change this trend but the PvE in most F2P mmos is absolute garbage.
Also the fact that nothing about the game in its current state actually says mmo. As it currently stands from what they have shown it currently appears to be an online hack and slash game with a few rpg elements thrown in. Again I will reserve judgement until they actually show us a bit more than a few tech demos but I was very underwhelmed. At first I was very high on the "fully destructable" world but after a bit more thought about it wouldn't that lead to some of the ugliest areas ever seen in gaming?
Good thing this is a zero instanced world.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
I felt that the presentation was very well done, and that the features were literally ground breaking. For the simple fact that the game will age and evolve over time from the rally calls will compel me to be a regular player and contributor. The mix-n-match aspect of the class design will keep me engaged as I try to find a blend that suits my particular tastes. (I am far from a "flavor of the month" player). While that's not a new concept, it's just another ingredient, and a welcome one.
I was also quite impressed with the movement. It looks fun to explore, giving life to the phrase "getting there is half the fun". The voxels and tiered world design is almost hard to wrap my head around when I try to think of the possibilities.
The features aren't all innovative, granted. But all of what has been shown are very welcome. For example, just because the "day/night cycle" isn't anything new, it's worth seeing and knowing that it's included. What I mean to say is: if SOE only shows features they believe are brand new in the genre, people will start to question if the game has "Feature X" or "System Y". ("Yes, but does it have a travel power? A mail system? Day/night cycle? Yadda and so forth).
SOE seems genuinely passionate about their product. Why shouldn't they be? We've only seen a small part of a grand plan. If they keep up the pace of information like Smedley claims, we're going to be swimming in information soon enough.
It's going to be a fun and exciting ride towards launch.
My thoughts exactly. Well said. Really looking forward to this game so far. On a another note. There is so much hate on this site. This is the hardest crowd to please.
I wish you all could see how stupid you look. You are passing judgement, critiquing, and coming to conclusions on mechanics/systems that you have neither seen in full, played, or even heard about second hand from an unbiased source...LOL at all of you.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
I will not go so far as to say there is no innovation in this game because clearly there is. The things that disturb me about this game so far is the fact that it is F2P, which generally means that it will be instanced to death and split into two different gaming experiences. The PvP side and the (Generally Shallow) PvE side. I hope they can change this trend but the PvE in most F2P mmos is absolute garbage.
Also the fact that nothing about the game in its current state actually says mmo. As it currently stands from what they have shown it currently appears to be an online hack and slash game with a few rpg elements thrown in. Again I will reserve judgement until they actually show us a bit more than a few tech demos but I was very underwhelmed. At first I was very high on the "fully destructable" world but after a bit more thought about it wouldn't that lead to some of the ugliest areas ever seen in gaming?
Why isnt it an mmo? I mean its going to have a massive amount of players in a persistant multiplayer online world thats a sandbox where people can destroy and build what they like. It will have npcs that can go anywhere they please in the world based on their nature. On top of that the world is seamless not just on the surface but even going multiple levels under the surface of the world.
And I didnt know RPGs are suppose to have a specific style of combat because the first Mass Effect had third person shooter style combat and still an RPG because you could develop your characters role based on a class and the items you get, Elder Scrolls has hack and slash combat and thats still an RPG, Final Fantasy series had instanced turn based combat and thats still an RPG. EQ Next from what they have revealed so seems to have more depth in role playing than most mmos. How many mmos out there have 40 different classes that you can mix freely once you unlock them to have the specific role you want?
Originally posted by CalmOceans SoE, MMORPG.COM and TenTonhammer said people were going to be blown away and see something they had never seen before.
I'm watching the videos just now, what are they talking about.
Vindictus has destructible terrain, the landscaper is just like Minecraft, the combat didn't seem special at all, looked like WoW.
What's so innovative about this title that was going to revolutionalise MMO? Seems like pretty run of the mill to me.
Umm. didn't you watch the video? The 4 holy grails.... that's innovative.
you realise they have all basically been done before right?
But Blizzard does this and everyone claims WoW is original and innovative. They take every cool new whiz bang from new MMOs and the MMO world goes goo goo over it. The hipocracy just astonishes me .
Comments
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The question should be:
What isn't "innovative" about this game?
DO not recall an MMO ever having the ability to have non scripted artificial intelligence that responds one way to someone and another way to someone else. Never played an MMO where consequences mattered, i.e. Want to play a Paladin, then you better freaking behave like one or the class option may never become available to you. I also do not ever playing an MMO where everything about the world is buildable and destructible. Seriously there is just so many innovative elements its pointless to showcase to someone who cant see the obvious.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
Ooh. I LIKE that last one.
Another point for your bullet list:
I'm not at all sure I'll like this game because of the combat scenes, but I have to give it to SOE that this game is very innovative.
We don't know how many tools we'll get from Landmark, but it sounds like we'll get some. The whole landmark system being available and being a world is pretty innovative. If you wanted to live in a crafting world that's it.
The destructable levels to the core is an awesome concept that might have been around, but it's never been done like this.
I've seen skill based games, but this multi class hodge podge is innovative even if I think it might backfire.
I'm closer to being a hater now than I was before the reveal, but I have to give them credit, they did show a very innovative game.
Asdar
Exactly this.
"So what if you can do x, y, and z. LION KING LOL WOW CLONE"
Really like the combat. Everything was real time and just flowed well with the gameplay. As a free to play this games launch is going to be bigger then anything we have seen. The next big thing is Everquest Next.
It was on my list, but I removed it, because it's not really new. It's like they took GW1 multi-classing with skill-hunting and removed the hand-holding and static presentation.
It is the reeses peanut butter cup of MMOs. They many not have invented chocolate or peanut butter, but damn did they find a great mix.
of course I would need a sample taste before I can validate this response.
In the end the used parts from many other games, and just mixed them up with an EQ flair. WoW did the same thing, and so have most games since. Although it does sound funny that they are copying a copy of their game.
the missing link in a chain of destruction.
All spelling and typographical errors are based soely on the fact that i just dont care. If you must point out my lack of atention to detail, please do it with a smile.
This. All of the mechanics and elements we've seen before in other games, but never implemented like this before, and definitely not in this genre. I'm keeping my expectations tempered, but this game could really revolutionize the genre, like no game has since...EQ1?
There is nothing innovative about it if we are talking game industry. However, if we are talking specifically for the MMO genre, it's actually really innovative ... sort of. What do I mean by that?
Well, this has been thought of plenty of times. Heck, I am sure you and I, all of us, have thought of these ideas before. SoE just happened to decide and add them in their game. These ideas are nothing new, it's just been really difficult to figure out a proper way to implement these features in a single game while being a MMO at the same time.
This leads to the reason I am still not convinced. They showed the features, but they didn't show them actually working in a way they would be used. What do I mean? In an open world online setting. This could be one of those things that sounds good and looks fantastic on paper, but has loads of problems when done in practice. Any company can easily have pulled off what SoE did in a tech demo, however, not many can pull it off in an actual full game with out issue.
It has already been mentioned that their so called "Holy grails" are not unique really. The most crazy claim of all was their class system. This has been used before and is nothing new. It's not even new to the MMO genre at all. I don't like when companies out right ignore other games and act as if they are the first.
Besides that, I am most certainly interested in this game. It sounds fun. However, I am a skeptic, these ideas they threw to the table will not be so simple to put in a MMO setting. They will need to work out many issues.
Examples and questions: When you destroy some of the world it will regenerate itself. Does this happen no matter what? What if you are standing in a tunnel you made and afk? If it doesn't regenerate while standing in the way, could a player not use that as an exploit and as a troll / griefer? I could destroy a person home or castle and such, then stand in the way of it regenerating. Heck, a whole group could do that.
Those issues are just the tip of the ice burg. It baffles me how they are going to come up with a way to prevent all these.
Giving a car with wings sounds innovative, but it doesn't come without it's issues. It may not be very practical in the end, and only time will tell if it can even be done at all in a safe and intuitive manner. I feel the same applies to EQN.
If they pull this off, I will admit, this game is going to be pretty darn neat, and most certainly will be innovative in the mmo genre. It could even become a standard for future MMOs. Though, I some how doubt this is going to work as they imagined just because I can come up with an issue with every fix to another issue. They very well may have to ignore some issues and hope it doesn't get in the way.
"destructable terrain" is going to be the next big buzzword for animated doorway. There is a reason why Minecraft looks like it's graphics came off an Atari 2600. The 3D power needed just to render a world that has 100% real destructable terrain is enormous. There is no way this is possible in EQN, I am betting is a type of phasing overlaid on the real world that resets after a respawn period. Or that the destructable terrain is only in specific spots where there is a need for it. At the end of the day when all is said and done. It's going to be another one of those .........yawn....."innovations that's great for 10 minutes then it loses it's "shiny".
I felt that the presentation was very well done, and that the features were literally ground breaking. For the simple fact that the game will age and evolve over time from the rally calls will compel me to be a regular player and contributor. The mix-n-match aspect of the class design will keep me engaged as I try to find a blend that suits my particular tastes. (I am far from a "flavor of the month" player). While that's not a new concept, it's just another ingredient, and a welcome one.
I was also quite impressed with the movement. It looks fun to explore, giving life to the phrase "getting there is half the fun". The voxels and tiered world design is almost hard to wrap my head around when I try to think of the possibilities.
The features aren't all innovative, granted. But all of what has been shown are very welcome. For example, just because the "day/night cycle" isn't anything new, it's worth seeing and knowing that it's included. What I mean to say is: if SOE only shows features they believe are brand new in the genre, people will start to question if the game has "Feature X" or "System Y". ("Yes, but does it have a travel power? A mail system? Day/night cycle? Yadda and so forth).
SOE seems genuinely passionate about their product. Why shouldn't they be? We've only seen a small part of a grand plan. If they keep up the pace of information like Smedley claims, we're going to be swimming in information soon enough.
It's going to be a fun and exciting ride towards launch.
I liked the game as much as i seen so far. Lots of question to be answered before we all change our minds a couple of times.
UO-EQ1-SWG-DAOC-WOW-EQ2-WAR-GW2-RIFT
I will not go so far as to say there is no innovation in this game because clearly there is. The things that disturb me about this game so far is the fact that it is F2P, which generally means that it will be instanced to death and split into two different gaming experiences. The PvP side and the (Generally Shallow) PvE side. I hope they can change this trend but the PvE in most F2P mmos is absolute garbage.
Also the fact that nothing about the game in its current state actually says mmo. As it currently stands from what they have shown it currently appears to be an online hack and slash game with a few rpg elements thrown in. Again I will reserve judgement until they actually show us a bit more than a few tech demos but I was very underwhelmed. At first I was very high on the "fully destructable" world but after a bit more thought about it wouldn't that lead to some of the ugliest areas ever seen in gaming?
Yes, because Notch really, really, really sucks at programming and openly admitted it. He also found the style had a bit of a charm, which it does. MC has tons of random errors such as memory overexpenses and crashing into JVM limits. It's a poorly written game.
Don't spread misinformation, please.
There are limitations to destructible terrain obviously, but you don't talk about that when you have horrific code on motherfucking JAVA.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Good thing this is a zero instanced world.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.
My thoughts exactly. Well said. Really looking forward to this game so far. On a another note. There is so much hate on this site. This is the hardest crowd to please.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
I think people should start going through these interview videos posted on page 1 of this forum for more info.
There's been a lot more information about how things are going to work revealed since we watched the initial EQN reveal.
Why isnt it an mmo? I mean its going to have a massive amount of players in a persistant multiplayer online world thats a sandbox where people can destroy and build what they like. It will have npcs that can go anywhere they please in the world based on their nature. On top of that the world is seamless not just on the surface but even going multiple levels under the surface of the world.
And I didnt know RPGs are suppose to have a specific style of combat because the first Mass Effect had third person shooter style combat and still an RPG because you could develop your characters role based on a class and the items you get, Elder Scrolls has hack and slash combat and thats still an RPG, Final Fantasy series had instanced turn based combat and thats still an RPG. EQ Next from what they have revealed so seems to have more depth in role playing than most mmos. How many mmos out there have 40 different classes that you can mix freely once you unlock them to have the specific role you want?
But Blizzard does this and everyone claims WoW is original and innovative. They take every cool new whiz bang from new MMOs and the MMO world goes goo goo over it. The hipocracy just astonishes me .