one of the things that made EQ unique and diferent was the realistic fantastic setting created by an amazing artist, he created a paradoxal atmosfere where the magic and the mytic could happen in a real world.... all that killed. sad times.
Originally posted by thyraven FFXIV is a good example that graphic DOES NOT make a game good, its looks semi realistic but in a shitty way and the game systems is just crap. Id rather have a cartoonish graphic with good animations than bad semi realistic animations.
And now we have FFXIV A realm reborn.
Why do we have to choose between having good gameplay with unimaginative graphic and crappy game with aesthetically pleasing graphic?
Oh really? FF XiV has complete destruction in its world? WoW I never knew!
ARR runs on anything now pretty much, I have an old computer sitting around that is almost 6 or more years old and it runs it on standard graphics with 30FPS.
It's graphic style and art direction are far more appealing TO ME, than EQ's.
Which I think is what Jason1989 was trying to say.
I like a lot of the concepts EQnext is presenting, some of them sound iffy and I hope they are done right, but honestly the art style and direction are unappealing to me, and from the looks of it, I'm not alone.
So couldn't they have gone another way with it and maybe still had it run on anything and have all the options this game presents?
I think that is probably possible.
the point being is you can't compare the two engines because they aren't the same engine, they aren't even close because the options available in one isn't even close to the options available in the other.
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
But the graphics are ridiculous, they're more childish than WoW, which means it will attract a demographic of children....so you can forget about any death penalty or forced grouping.
This is such a ludicrous statement. The graphics are not childish, they are just not going for a "realism" aesthetic. And to say that there won't be any death penalty, or that grouping won't be encouraged just b/c of how the game looks is just as ridiculous.
SoE has learned from their past mistakes and are not making them again. With graphics like what we are seeing, they are ensuring there is not a high barrier to entry based on PC hardware, and that as many people as possible will be able to play. WoW doesn't look like it does b/c Blizzard wanted "cartoonish" graphics, it looks like it does to ensure almost everyone can play the friggin game. SoE is making sure what happened in EQ2 doesn't happen in EQN, MANY people weren't able to play EQ2 for years after release b/c the graphics were so hardware intensive (yes, I know EQ2 was designed for a "next gen" single-core CPU that never materialized, but the point still stands).
Originally posted by Amjoco I was looking for a more mature game like the original EQ was. This console style game design needs to be rethought imho. They should have put time into building Vanguard from the ground up, instead of ruining the EQ franchise with Disney art style and Wildstar gameplay. I will reform my opinion as more details come out, but this just is the same old thing as it stands.
wildstar gameplay? Seriously? LOL.
If you are watching the livestream than you should understand what I am talking about. Warriors spinning in a circle is way overdone!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
the point being is you can't compare the two engines because they aren't the same engine, they aren't even close because the options available in one isn't even close to the options available in the other.
I'm sure they could have gone with a different art style or direction.
It's about scalability.
FFXIV ARR look's pretty meh on it's lowest settings.
It looks really nice on its ultra settings.
I'm sure that you can compare the two GRAPHIC styles, and the two choices of ART DIRECTION. No one is comparing the graphics engines.
Why can't this game have scalability and art direction / art style that is more realistic and less pixar.
Originally posted by Amjoco This console style game design needs to be rethought imho.
and ... you dont think it might be just a tad too late for that?
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
the point being is you can't compare the two engines because they aren't the same engine, they aren't even close because the options available in one isn't even close to the options available in the other.
I'm sure they could have gone with a different art style or direction.
It's about scalability.
FFXIV ARR look's pretty meh on it's lowest settings.
It looks really nice on its ultra settings.
I'm sure that you can compare the two GRAPHIC styles, and the two choices of ART DIRECTION. No one is comparing the graphics engines.
Why can't this game have scalability and art direction / art style that is more realistic and less pixar.
I'm sure it could.
Graphics doesn't equal ENGINE. You are so sure, how many years have you spent developing engines for gameplay on large scale platforms? Art style does however matter when dealing with poly counts.. and FF XiV isn't photorealistic, its just as cartoony have you even played it?
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
Originally posted by thyraven FFXIV is a good example that graphic DOES NOT make a game good, its looks semi realistic but in a shitty way and the game systems is just crap. Id rather have a cartoonish graphic with good animations than bad semi realistic animations.
And now we have FFXIV A realm reborn.
Why do we have to choose between having good gameplay with unimaginative graphic and crappy game with aesthetically pleasing graphic?
Oh really? FF XiV has complete destruction in its world? WoW I never knew!
ARR runs on anything now pretty much, I have an old computer sitting around that is almost 6 or more years old and it runs it on standard graphics with 30FPS.
It's graphic style and art direction are far more appealing TO ME, than EQ's.
Which I think is what Jason1989 was trying to say.
I like a lot of the concepts EQnext is presenting, some of them sound iffy and I hope they are done right, but honestly the art style and direction are unappealing to me, and from the looks of it, I'm not alone.
So couldn't they have gone another way with it and maybe still had it run on anything and have all the options this game presents?
I think that is probably possible.
the point being is you can't compare the two engines because they aren't the same engine, they aren't even close because the options available in one isn't even close to the options available in the other.
But we were talking about the art style and the aesthetic of the game, not the engine.
anyway i understand the reason why they chose the cartoonish style but i think it is short sighted and being unimaginative at all.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by thyraven FFXIV is a good example that graphic DOES NOT make a game good, its looks semi realistic but in a shitty way and the game systems is just crap. Id rather have a cartoonish graphic with good animations than bad semi realistic animations.
And now we have FFXIV A realm reborn.
Why do we have to choose between having good gameplay with unimaginative graphic and crappy game with aesthetically pleasing graphic?
Oh really? FF XiV has complete destruction in its world? WoW I never knew!
ARR runs on anything now pretty much, I have an old computer sitting around that is almost 6 or more years old and it runs it on standard graphics with 30FPS.
It's graphic style and art direction are far more appealing TO ME, than EQ's.
Which I think is what Jason1989 was trying to say.
I like a lot of the concepts EQnext is presenting, some of them sound iffy and I hope they are done right, but honestly the art style and direction are unappealing to me, and from the looks of it, I'm not alone.
So couldn't they have gone another way with it and maybe still had it run on anything and have all the options this game presents?
I think that is probably possible.
the point being is you can't compare the two engines because they aren't the same engine, they aren't even close because the options available in one isn't even close to the options available in the other.
But we were talking about the art style and the aesthetic of the game, not the engine.
anyway i understand the reason why they chose the cartoonish style but i think it is short sighted and being unimaginative at all.
not if you are talking about how well it runs on machines. You need to either focus your argument/debate on one subject or learn what each subject means. Engine will be what determines system resources, not the art style.
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
Yeah this game is a double-whammy dealbreaker: PvE only (waste of a sandbox) and shitty art direction.
People say games with realistic graphics don't age well, bullshit, look at Age of Conan, it's still the second best looking MMORPG on the market, only bested by TSW.
These colourful fairy pastel puke shit art styles are poision to my eyes. IT'S A PLAGUE!!!!!!!!!
"Where is the feeling of accomplishment in a game where you can never go where there is none to be had?" -Me, on the subject of Bethesda > BioWare
the point being is you can't compare the two engines because they aren't the same engine, they aren't even close because the options available in one isn't even close to the options available in the other.
I'm sure they could have gone with a different art style or direction.
It's about scalability.
FFXIV ARR look's pretty meh on it's lowest settings.
It looks really nice on its ultra settings.
I'm sure that you can compare the two GRAPHIC styles, and the two choices of ART DIRECTION. No one is comparing the graphics engines.
Why can't this game have scalability and art direction / art style that is more realistic and less pixar.
I'm sure it could.
Graphics doesn't equal ENGINE. You are so sure, how many years have you spent developing engines for gameplay on large scale platforms? Art style does however matter when dealing with poly counts.. and FF XiV isn't photorealistic, its just as cartoony have you even played it?
No offense but these things we are discussing are entirely unrelated.
Art direction and art style have nothing to do with graphics engines. They are directly related to each other, but they have literally nothing to do with the engine itself.
I have to agree though.... cartoonish graphics is a huge turnoff. I breaks the lovely feeling that make me feel like I am a part of the world.
Of course the gameplay are always of more importance then the graphics. However why settle with childish and cartoonish graphics and amazing gameplay when you can have both amazing gameplay AND amazing graphics.
Also, why follow this totally lame handholding that has been common with the games released the last years like advertising where a monster will lands it's big hit abilities in forms or red lines marking the area where it will land. How friggin hard is it to learn by mistake. Fight the monster and pretty soon your will see when he makes etc that specific animation then you have that nasty blow incoming and then learn that and move away.
I see no signs at all of this being more towards the original everquest... on the contrary it's way more towards WoW and Wildstart and imo opinion that's not what the old EQ fans are after. We already have tons of such games incoming.
Now EQ next have ALOT of really nice things that compensate alot of the complaints I have. However if EQN is not a game that has increased difficulty over the other released games (more like old style EQ where you actually had hard times ALOT during your playsessions) then this will follow the regular trend of a huge amount of starting players just to decrease as fast after the first month after release.
Damn, I am both glad and sad after this first presentation...
I soooo much wish that they simply took the old EQ added the extra sweet features they added to this game like the improved class system, destroyable world, crafting, AI but added top notch graphics and beside that basically kept the old EQ original world the same with some new contents added along. The difficulty that EQ had would basically remain the same with some minor adjustments. A game like THAT is what I think most of the old EQ players would prefer much over this.
I have to agree alot with the players in the chat at twitch.tv during the presentation - "This is NOT everquest". Sure new game and new design and many great stuff, but the only thing that remains from EQ are the lore not much more.
not if you are talking about how well it runs on machines. You need to either focus your argument/debate on one subject or learn what each subject means. Engine will be what determines system resources, not the art style.
Again, SCALABILITY.
Make the game scale so it runs on different machines.
They can have features, and not have a 'cartoony' graphics / art style and direction. And still have a graphics engine that supports the features they want. It was a design choice.
Yeah this game is a double-whammy dealbreaker: PvE only (waste of a sandbox) and shitty art direction.
People say games with realistic graphics don't age well, bullshit, look at Age of Conan, it's still the second best looking MMORPG on the market, only bested by TSW.
These colourful fairy pastel puke shit art styles are poision to my eyes. IT'S A PLAGUE!!!!!!!!!
I must agree. I'm the biggest EQ1 fanboy, but if the game is released with these graphics, then no level of amazing gameplay will be able to immerse me into the game.
Originally posted by thyraven FFXIV is a good example that graphic DOES NOT make a game good, its looks semi realistic but in a shitty way and the game systems is just crap. Id rather have a cartoonish graphic with good animations than bad semi realistic animations.
And now we have FFXIV A realm reborn.
Why do we have to choose between having good gameplay with unimaginative graphic and crappy game with aesthetically pleasing graphic?
Oh really? FF XiV has complete destruction in its world? WoW I never knew!
ARR runs on anything now pretty much, I have an old computer sitting around that is almost 6 or more years old and it runs it on standard graphics with 30FPS.
It's graphic style and art direction are far more appealing TO ME, than EQ's.
Which I think is what Jason1989 was trying to say.
I like a lot of the concepts EQnext is presenting, some of them sound iffy and I hope they are done right, but honestly the art style and direction are unappealing to me, and from the looks of it, I'm not alone.
So couldn't they have gone another way with it and maybe still had it run on anything and have all the options this game presents?
I think that is probably possible.
the point being is you can't compare the two engines because they aren't the same engine, they aren't even close because the options available in one isn't even close to the options available in the other.
But we were talking about the art style and the aesthetic of the game, not the engine.
anyway i understand the reason why they chose the cartoonish style but i think it is short sighted and being unimaginative at all.
not if you are talking about how well it runs on machines. You need to either focus your argument/debate on one subject or learn what each subject means. Engine will be what determines system resources, not the art style.
My mind is blown by your wisdom.
anyway point is when you show a screenshot of FFXI or XIV you know it is a Final Fantasy game.
When you show a Age of Conan game it spills Conan the barbarian.
You show a WoW screenshot Warcraft players know it is from the same universe.
Then we have EQN which the characters model and the environment share very little similarites to the aesthetic of previous EQ titles.
As a graphic developer for like 20+ years, I can only say one thing... their voxel based engine is one of the most impressive things I've seen for a MMO engine, or even just a game engine. Voxels looking as smooth as polygons.
If the price to pay is to have a bit more cartoonish graphics (which I actually like, and the emotes are pretty cool too, at least visible on the screen), I've no problems with that.
I dunno if they had to make it look the way it did for the features they are providing, but I'm thinking they probably could have taking a different art direction and it would have looked better, maybe still a little plastic, but in my opinion the amount of "plastic" that SWTOR was called, is nothing compared to how plastic this looks. I dunno, I hope it gets polished and they tone down some of the color scheme.
Originally posted by thyraven FFXIV is a good example that graphic DOES NOT make a game good, its looks semi realistic but in a shitty way and the game systems is just crap. Id rather have a cartoonish graphic with good animations than bad semi realistic animations.
And now we have FFXIV A realm reborn.
Why do we have to choose between having good gameplay with unimaginative graphic and crappy game with aesthetically pleasing graphic?
Oh really? FF XiV has complete destruction in its world? WoW I never knew!
ARR runs on anything now pretty much, I have an old computer sitting around that is almost 6 or more years old and it runs it on standard graphics with 30FPS.
It's graphic style and art direction are far more appealing TO ME, than EQ's.
Which I think is what Jason1989 was trying to say.
I like a lot of the concepts EQnext is presenting, some of them sound iffy and I hope they are done right, but honestly the art style and direction are unappealing to me, and from the looks of it, I'm not alone.
So couldn't they have gone another way with it and maybe still had it run on anything and have all the options this game presents?
I think that is probably possible.
the point being is you can't compare the two engines because they aren't the same engine, they aren't even close because the options available in one isn't even close to the options available in the other.
But we were talking about the art style and the aesthetic of the game, not the engine.
anyway i understand the reason why they chose the cartoonish style but i think it is short sighted and being unimaginative at all.
not if you are talking about how well it runs on machines. You need to either focus your argument/debate on one subject or learn what each subject means. Engine will be what determines system resources, not the art style.
My mind is blown by your wisdom.
anyway point is when you show a screenshot of FFXI or XIV you know it is a Final Fantasy game.
When you show a Age of Conan game it spills Conan the barbarian.
You show a WoW screenshot Warcraft players know it is from the same universe.
Then we have EQN which the characters model and the environment share very little similarites to the aesthetic of previous EQ titles.
Which is why they went with Next instead of 3. They want this to be a brand new game in a familiar setting...
Comments
the point being is you can't compare the two engines because they aren't the same engine, they aren't even close because the options available in one isn't even close to the options available in the other.
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
This is such a ludicrous statement. The graphics are not childish, they are just not going for a "realism" aesthetic. And to say that there won't be any death penalty, or that grouping won't be encouraged just b/c of how the game looks is just as ridiculous.
SoE has learned from their past mistakes and are not making them again. With graphics like what we are seeing, they are ensuring there is not a high barrier to entry based on PC hardware, and that as many people as possible will be able to play. WoW doesn't look like it does b/c Blizzard wanted "cartoonish" graphics, it looks like it does to ensure almost everyone can play the friggin game. SoE is making sure what happened in EQ2 doesn't happen in EQN, MANY people weren't able to play EQ2 for years after release b/c the graphics were so hardware intensive (yes, I know EQ2 was designed for a "next gen" single-core CPU that never materialized, but the point still stands).
If you are watching the livestream than you should understand what I am talking about. Warriors spinning in a circle is way overdone!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I'm sure they could have gone with a different art style or direction.
It's about scalability.
FFXIV ARR look's pretty meh on it's lowest settings.
It looks really nice on its ultra settings.
I'm sure that you can compare the two GRAPHIC styles, and the two choices of ART DIRECTION. No one is comparing the graphics engines.
Why can't this game have scalability and art direction / art style that is more realistic and less pixar.
I'm sure it could.
and ... you dont think it might be just a tad too late for that?
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
Graphics doesn't equal ENGINE. You are so sure, how many years have you spent developing engines for gameplay on large scale platforms? Art style does however matter when dealing with poly counts.. and FF XiV isn't photorealistic, its just as cartoony have you even played it?
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
But we were talking about the art style and the aesthetic of the game, not the engine.
anyway i understand the reason why they chose the cartoonish style but i think it is short sighted and being unimaginative at all.
I think the graphics are fine.
What I absolutely hate is the aoe crap and red circles. And all the over the top flash. Combat looks stupid.
Disney was my first thought. It reminds me of the time I was watching tv: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlk36vgygh4
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
not if you are talking about how well it runs on machines. You need to either focus your argument/debate on one subject or learn what each subject means. Engine will be what determines system resources, not the art style.
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
Yeah this game is a double-whammy dealbreaker: PvE only (waste of a sandbox) and shitty art direction.
People say games with realistic graphics don't age well, bullshit, look at Age of Conan, it's still the second best looking MMORPG on the market, only bested by TSW.
These colourful fairy pastel puke shit art styles are poision to my eyes. IT'S A PLAGUE!!!!!!!!!
"Where is the feeling of accomplishment in a game where you can never go where there is none to be had?"
-Me, on the subject of Bethesda > BioWare
No offense but these things we are discussing are entirely unrelated.
Art direction and art style have nothing to do with graphics engines. They are directly related to each other, but they have literally nothing to do with the engine itself.
I have to agree though.... cartoonish graphics is a huge turnoff. I breaks the lovely feeling that make me feel like I am a part of the world.
Of course the gameplay are always of more importance then the graphics. However why settle with childish and cartoonish graphics and amazing gameplay when you can have both amazing gameplay AND amazing graphics.
Also, why follow this totally lame handholding that has been common with the games released the last years like advertising where a monster will lands it's big hit abilities in forms or red lines marking the area where it will land. How friggin hard is it to learn by mistake. Fight the monster and pretty soon your will see when he makes etc that specific animation then you have that nasty blow incoming and then learn that and move away.
I see no signs at all of this being more towards the original everquest... on the contrary it's way more towards WoW and Wildstart and imo opinion that's not what the old EQ fans are after. We already have tons of such games incoming.
Now EQ next have ALOT of really nice things that compensate alot of the complaints I have. However if EQN is not a game that has increased difficulty over the other released games (more like old style EQ where you actually had hard times ALOT during your playsessions) then this will follow the regular trend of a huge amount of starting players just to decrease as fast after the first month after release.
Damn, I am both glad and sad after this first presentation...
I soooo much wish that they simply took the old EQ added the extra sweet features they added to this game like the improved class system, destroyable world, crafting, AI but added top notch graphics and beside that basically kept the old EQ original world the same with some new contents added along. The difficulty that EQ had would basically remain the same with some minor adjustments. A game like THAT is what I think most of the old EQ players would prefer much over this.
I have to agree alot with the players in the chat at twitch.tv during the presentation - "This is NOT everquest". Sure new game and new design and many great stuff, but the only thing that remains from EQ are the lore not much more.
/Ely
Again, SCALABILITY.
Make the game scale so it runs on different machines.
They can have features, and not have a 'cartoony' graphics / art style and direction. And still have a graphics engine that supports the features they want. It was a design choice.
The graphic were amazing especially given the destructible part and building.. insane. Games looks like a 20 out 1-10
Farstryder,
I must agree. I'm the biggest EQ1 fanboy, but if the game is released with these graphics, then no level of amazing gameplay will be able to immerse me into the game.
My mind is blown by your wisdom.
anyway point is when you show a screenshot of FFXI or XIV you know it is a Final Fantasy game.
When you show a Age of Conan game it spills Conan the barbarian.
You show a WoW screenshot Warcraft players know it is from the same universe.
Then we have EQN which the characters model and the environment share very little similarites to the aesthetic of previous EQ titles.
Love the art style.
Feel bad for those so caught up in their own strict styles that they can't enjoy different things.
I dunno if they had to make it look the way it did for the features they are providing, but I'm thinking they probably could have taking a different art direction and it would have looked better, maybe still a little plastic, but in my opinion the amount of "plastic" that SWTOR was called, is nothing compared to how plastic this looks. I dunno, I hope it gets polished and they tone down some of the color scheme.
Which is why they went with Next instead of 3. They want this to be a brand new game in a familiar setting...
Yea because this totally looks like the finshed combat. :P
The artstyle MUST fit the game, as it sets the overall tone of the world. This Art Style does NOT fit the game, so no it isn't us being too "Strict".