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One way to tell EQN is serious about being a sandbox
Dudehog
Member Posts: 112
If there aren't any completely non-combat classes announced, then you can be sure this is just going to be some sort of dumbed down sandpark game and not a real sandbox. Even though I wouldn't play a non-combat class, I think this is the most important reveal they can do tomorrow because it will be very telling about the type of game EQN will end up becoming.
Comments
Darkfall is not a sandbox now?
A game doesn't have to mimic SWG to be a sandbox, you know. I hate the idea of non-combat classes because it means I can't be a combat character and craft/do other stuff at the same time.
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Definition 25098250285028520582058111511515 of Sandbox.
No one cares what a sandbox is anymore at this point.
All sandbox means is player driven content. Sandbox features are simply player generated content. A sandbox game is a game that is actually altered by player actions.
That really is the meat of it.
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Does this mean FFXIV:ARR is a sandbox?
Because they have 8 combat classes, 9 combat jobs, 8 crafting classes, and 3 gathering classes?
Good thread, very informative and interesting.
+1
Also, the definition of sandbox is my definition of sandbox. What is actually is doesn't matter to you since it's not the same as yours.
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Not now and never was. Next question.
If I can't dig a 1 meter cube out of the dirt, it's not a sandbox.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I see this is a difficult concept for some to comprehend. Let me make it simple so even you can understand.
A sandbox has to have crafting, correct? My point is that if a game is going to have crafting, but it doesn't have fully fleshed out crafting classes in the same way it has for combat classes, then it's very likely it's going to be a weak sandbox experience. I'm not saying EQN won't be a sandbox without non-combat classes. I'm saying it will probably be a lame sandbox.
[mod edit]
That where gamers get messed up. They take a game to be known for being a great sandbox and look at all its features and say that = a sandbox game. Minecraft, SWG etc. Even Minecraft and SWG were very different games. A sandbox MMO that has PvP in it that lets you loot items off players you kill and now looting players is a sandbox feature... NO. Its simple, if the game designed lets you build, change parts of the game you interact with you now have sandbox. Be that your char, the world, crafting and story. How much of the game you can change depends on how much of the game is sandbox.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
This is why I can't stand this whole Sandbox vs Themepark debate. These terms are so vague they're practically meaningless.
The idea was non-combat classes. Is this or good idea or not? Who gives a crap if it's "sandbox".
They are very simple, problem most people dont know what themepark or sandbox means. Its simple, Themepark - play as the devs intended and players interaction with crafting, story, char and world will only have an outcome the devs intended. Sandbox - Players get ti change part or all of the world be that crafting, world, story or char. If you get creative rights over some or all of it you have a sandbox. How much you get to change tells you what % of the game is sandbox. Most MMOs are a hybrid of Sandbox and Themepark.
They have alluded to the possbility of a character changing classes.
So it could allow you to do what you want to do in a sense by changing from blacksmith to wizard.
I don't know how that would be better than a classless system though.
We all understand ,and we all knew this before you posted it. You can stop repeating yourself.
I wasn't defining the term sandbox in my post. I was giving my opinion of one aspect of what I believe makes a good sandbox game. That's it. I think a good sandbox will have non-combat classes. Is that so controversial or hard to understand?
No you were very clear, if no non-combat classes are in EQN we dont have a real sandbox game. Time to move on then?
It is controversial, and most likely incorrect. The way that EQ did it, for the most part was that there were no crafting classes at all, it was just a skill. Making it so you cannot be an adventurer and simultaneously a crafter is a little bit stupid, but needlessly limiting (I think 15 years later the games should offer as a minimum features that EQ and UO had, right?).
Now, if you what you really meant to say is that it won't be a good sandbox game unless it offers crafting and a crafting based economy that is so compelling you can and many will want to play only or primarily as crafters, that is a totally different thing and a compelling argument to my mind.
Is this what you were intending?
I would really like it actually if you had traditional classes, but they were independent of each other and all had to be leveled up individually.
Like if you hit max level as a warrior, then want to be a wizard, you start as a lev 1 wizard and have your max level warrior "banked". You aren't a wizard that gets to use some warrior skills or anything like that, but it's there for you to go back to. If you get to level 5 as a wizard, you're just an ordinary level 5 wizard even though you're a level 50 warrior too. You don't get to use any of the warrior stuff while in wizard mode. But you can go talk to an npc or something and switch to whatever you've been already.
One thing I never liked about making alts is the loss of all the fluff on your main character. Your main has the fancy titles, the fancy appearance gear, some cool mount or whatever...but you don't have access to that because you're playing a different class now. It has deterred people (definitely has deterred me) from doing more in a game.
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I can't wait to hear all of the reasons why EQNext is not a sandbox!! That debate should carry us over into the next decade at least!
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Yes, there are different shades of sandbox. A real sandbox has more features than certain other types of less "real" sandboxes, which is why I said it will most likely be a sandpark.
You said the same thing in your response " Most MMOs are a hybrid of Sandbox and Themepark." It's a gray area and not one extreme or the other.
I think its important for a sandbox style game to offer mechanics that let a player focus entirely on crafting activities, much as EVE lets a player focus all their skill training on industry and marketing and not have to fight along way to advance.
In each case the player may be unable to effectively fight (nor need to) but has the freedom to change their training path and pick up some combat skills should they chose to do so at a later date.
But no, dedicated crafter "classes" aren't necessary, in fact I'm from the camp that doesn't believe sand box style games should have defined, and limiting classes, but that's another debatable issue entirely
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A sandbox according to me acts as open choice in skills as well as content, a sandbox can contain themeparks.
So a sandbox can not have classes, if it does its a themed-tool/sand-box.
Original UO was close to being a sandbox, but it went the way of themeparks when trammel opened, so that means OWPvP needs to be in a sandbox.
According to me a "Sandbox" includes:
Free skill progression, build your own class.
Deep crafting & resource management/gathering.
Terraforming / Housing.
Player created content & storylines.
Developer created themeparks, cities & storylines.
Player policed pvp & murder systems.
I formed this view on sandboxes based on oldschool MUD rulesets.
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