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Originally posted by Four0Six Funny thing about "fantasy fans", we are all racist. Yup. you hate Fae, I hate Elves.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You nailed it Adam!
As EQ was my first MMO back in 1999, i have yet to have any new game come close to giving me that feeling again. We want EQ 1 with todays technology. That would wok for me. I could do without staying up for 3 days waiting for the cyclops to drop the ring for the j boots. I do not miss that nor does my wife!
"And on a side note, here's to hoping that marine bells and instant teleportation are kicked into the wings while boats make a reappearance. While the original game has infuriating wait times for traveling, it also made it feel real and immersive. Adding in teleports instantly decreases the size of the world."
If you like your immersion so much to eschew teleports I hope you'll be ok with your character being parked on a boat for two weeks IRL during the journey. Maybe they could add mini games on board, like fishing, tieing knots, sewing sails, etc. Or you could level an alt during that time.
If you don't like teleports don't use them. Go ahead, walk from one end of the island to the other, making up your own story. But don't make me waste my time with boring things like that.
5. Couldn't care less. Zoning and instancing can be useful as well.
4. Couldn't care less. What is in the game is what counts. Don't care what is on a map, if I can't visit it.
3. Sandbox sounds like choices over limits. Might be what you want.
2. Fae over dragons everytime. I don't like creatures with scales. Fae have been cool!
1. Good told stories give characters life. SWTOR sucks but for its stories. GW2 give you something as well. Hell, even DAoC had something for your char. EQ should do so as well.
I might only agree with no 3 though.
Completely agree with the writer of the article. Also about the Fae.
I wonder though if they are able to do without any instancing at all. I prefer it for immersion reasons, but I can also imagine that it could cause some design problems. Just as an example, shared dungeons always cause drama (groups that camp a boss, or just ninja the encounter while your group is handling trash mobs etc). During prime hours you could be waiting in a row to fight the boss, also making the encounter way easier then designed. While in off hours, you might find the dungeon too difficult. Weird unbalance like that.
Having no Fae is like asking for no sorcery or magic spells of any kind. You don't have to like em but they are iconic in fantasy games. A hell a lot more iconic than dragon people which came bout only because people wanted to play dragons instead of being what they should be as a rare sighting and extremely dangerous.
The list is incredibely broad features or features that are counterintuitice to sandbox games which is what EQN will be first n foremost. Really a worthless read. How bout having come concrete issues like crafting meaningful or end game not being 'Raid or GTFO' mentality or features that numerous threads have gone over?
Originally posted by xWraith As much as I agree with this article, the title is quite a bit misleading. "5 things *WE* don't want in Everquest Next." Who exactly is "we?" Shouldn't it be titled, "5 things I don't want in EQN."
Jesus, "We" is MMORPG.com editorial staff who hasn't seen the game. Is that really that hard to figure out?
When you watch a team athlete give and interview and he says "We really had a lot of problem with their quick passing today", do you say to yourself "wait, I didn't play pro sports today! What is he talking about?!", and shut off the TV?
I agree with every word of the article!. My first deep luv of MMO's was the original EQ during it's golden age (just prior too, and including Kunark). All the distinct classes, and races and their individual starting areas, wonderful! I want to see a return to that! and I want Magicians something like they were, with the different summoned pets which were distinct. EQ2's equivalent didn't have it, not at all... I so hope $oE doesn't screw this up... I have serious doubts as from the images so far it looks all too WoW-ified... We will soon see!
I can definitely do without the fae! Also no dragon-people, not needed already have the wonderful classic Iksar!
Originally posted by Tjed This is great! I have my doubts, because I don't want to get my hopes up, but I agree with everything you said here. Add in huge non linear, non instanced dungeons and a ton of group content to level cap...... man I gotta reign myself in here... I'm starting to get excited and I've been burnt too many times.
"I've been burnt too many times. " Ha! I know exactly what you mean, feeling exactly the same myself!
Originally posted by Clattuc Seamless worlds, lots of individual character choices rather than a linear story on rails, SOE, hmm, hmm, where have I heard these things before?... Seems like there was some game... the name Koster floats by in the aether... Adam, I loved STAR WARS GALAXIES too. Unfortunately, the "lessons" of GALAXIES are baked into SOE's DNA by now. And they have seen what the new audience likes in MMO's. I suspect you'll have five disappointments when EQN is revealed.
The funniest thing to me about this discussion, and the previous about what we want in EQN, is that what many people want (probably without even realizing it) is a return to Vanilla WoW. That's probably why Vanilla WoW was the huge success that it was.
Before the WoW haters jump all over this, I'm not saying that EVERY person wants a return to Vanilla WoW, or that Vanilla WoW was perfect and should be copied exactly, because it should not. All I'm pointing out is that what I'm reading in a majority of replies, and the main article, are things that Vanilla WoW either had or had something very similar.
5) Zoning - Vanilla WoW had a seemless map. You could move from zone to zone without loading screens. This made the world feel really big and real. While it's true that Vanilla WoW did have instanced dungeons and raids, it was somewhat balanced out by the fact that it also had many large areas throughout the world that acted similarly to open world dungeons. There were places such as the castle in Arathi Highlands that had group quests with good rewards and also elite enemies that required teamwork. There was the Troll temple in the Hinterlands that was the same way. These are just two examples.
Additionally, there was no instanced PvP and that led to the epic Tauren Mill/Southshore battles.
4) Small Map - This was touched on above, but with a seemless world, Azeroth felt HUGE. There was nothing small about it.
3) Limited Scope (Linearity) - Of course this is the area where you could knock Vanilla WoW the most, but for those who played back in Vanilla, you remember that the game was not nearly as linear as it's become. Back in Vanilla there were exclamation points over quest giver's heads when you found them, but they were not marked on the map. You had to figure out where to go to find them, or look on the internet. There were also many different starter zones and an abundance of zones you could level in, such that you could level multiple characters to 60 without repeating the same zone. The game certainly didn't feel "linear" when you played it originally.
2) No Fae! - Well duh! Seriously though, Vanilla WoW had an abundance of races to choose from and had a race to fit just about everyone's idea of what was cool. There were no lame Blood elves or Pandas.
1) Story on Rails - The WoW of today is very much a story on rails as you level up each expansion to inevitably face the major bad guy. This was not the case in vanilla WoW. There was no over-arching villain in Vanilla WoW. Blizzard simply gave us a cool world to explore. Back in vanilla WoW you very much did go where you wanted and made your own adventure.
Beyond these points, vanilla WoW was very challenging, especially when compared to its current version, or many of the current MMOs. There was limited fast travel. No mounts until level 40 and no epic mounts until level 60. If you played vanilla WoW you realize that attaining an epic mount truly felt rewarding and epic.
Vanilla WoW had the roaming higher level monsters that were there to gank and scare the lowbies. There was stiches that would spawn and attack Duskwood. There were the elite Sons of Arugal in Silverpine Forest, along with the elite devilsaurs in un'goro crater. These types of mobs made you feel like you had to look over your shoulder while questing.
Epic gear was truly epic. You didn't get epics handed to you. If you wanted epic gear you had to work for it. I could go on and on.
I'm not saying that EQN should be Vanilla WoW 2.0, simply pointing out that what people seem to want is a return to something very similar to what what Vanilla WoW brought to the table 9 years ago.
3, 4 and 5 will really have a major effect on gameplay and general opinion.
Originally posted by Grimlock426 The funniest thing to me about this discussion, and the previous about what we want in EQN, is that what many people want (probably without even realizing it) is a return to Vanilla WoW. That's probably why Vanilla WoW was the huge success that it was.
Let's look back at Suzie's article and compare it to your statement:
5. Make MMOs HARD Again
Vanilla WoW - Nope. In fact it was the opposite, compared to EQ or Lineage or FFXI.
4. Give Us Connections to EverQuest and EverQuest 2
Vanilla WoW - Nope.
3. Make Crafting and Active Game, Not Just an Ingredients Checklist
Remember the days when you weren’t simply handed a mount or a skill simply for completing a quest?
I have to agree on most points. The Fae I never saw as a playable race so I am indifferent there.
Not having really played since Luclin, I still have a load of fond memories from EQ. First time I solo'd the Cyclops in Karana Plains. Getting my Sword of Yakesha. Earning my Ranger Epics before level 40. Becoming a Master Linguist. Peeling mobs. Nobody knows what peeling is anymore. Training Blackbarrow like a boss. My full set of Crusty armor on my Orc Warrior.
Originally posted by viruzex Originally posted by Maquiame Originally posted by ninjagranny Great list although id add No Race after Iksar No mounts No evil erudites ( they just didnt fit really) zoning i can live with - just Alchol abuse needs to come back - nekked drunk running was superb fun . Not sure about instancing - it seems to ruin most other games UNLESS you have to walk there / get a party to get there God I loved EQ1 - from beta till i decided to stop due to the dumbing down - I had an SBH early on and I was awesome as i could actually kill whisps outside BB - no xp just did it cos at last i could ... GOD I LOVED THAT GAME - up to Kunark ( minus the hole) it has never been bettered or even anything come close ..
You would do yourself a lot of good by taking a step back off the overreaction train. They can always add Odus and the Erudites in.
have a nice day
No they won't.From a design standpoint it would make no sense when you can just make a brown human. Besides didn't you know all humans are from Medieval England?
Have a nice day~
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Missed the MOST important one ...NO CASH SHOP !.
I don't mind zones at all,they can actually offer more strategy to game play,problem is the SOE staff is not so good at realizing ideas outside the bubble.
I don't want to see questing as the most proficient reason to level and attain gear.Choice and if they can put on some sort of thinking cap ,more than just the choice of camping in a group.
No matter how good the game is,if i see cash shop all over this game,it's not entering my HD.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Originally posted by Asamof Everyone ITT saying they want instancing gone are going to be crying/begging for it back when it's near impossible to get any good gear drops due to camping.
Make all gear crafted. Problem solved.
Originally posted by discord235 As with every new MMO coming out, I have a feeling there will be a lot of disappointed fans.
Oh hey, first batch of those is coming up in 48 hours, more or less?
Got the team jerseys yet? Still on sale, forum=PVP equipped and ready to go, cheap.
Originally posted by grimfall Originally posted by Grimlock426 The funniest thing to me about this discussion, and the previous about what we want in EQN, is that what many people want (probably without even realizing it) is a return to Vanilla WoW. That's probably why Vanilla WoW was the huge success that it was.
Huh? That should be directed at your responses! It's hard to take you seriously at all when it's obvious you didn't even read what I wrote. All of the specific points I made were compared to this article: what we don't want in EQN. You're obviously going back to the article of what we do want in EQN. So the first thing I suggest is that you actually read what I wrote in response to THIS article specifically, with a nod to the previous article.
Even so, let's look at what you wrote.
5. Make it hard - I won't argue that Vanilla WoW was as hard as EQ 1, however compared to most all MMOs released since 2004, Vanilla WoW is VERY difficult. Let's face it, you're not likely to ever see anything quite as difficult as EQ 1 was, but Vanilla WoW certainly had many challenges.
4. Obviously WoW can't give a comparison to EQ. Obviously also though I wasn't say make Vanilla WoW and call it EQN.
3. Make crafting an active game - I'm not going to argue that crafting in wow is deep or engaging.
2. Give a nod to the good old days - It seems to me like you didn't play vanilla wow. Not only was saving for an epic mount a huge challenge, but you WERE ABSOLUTELY NOT given gear. You got epic gear from raiding 40-man dungeons, or from crafting it made from mats that only came from epic dungeons. Towards the end of the vanilla life cycle they started having the 20-man raids that dropped epic gear, but that was still no walk in the park.
1. Give events that change the world - I agree that vanilla wow did not have events that changed the world and that was one of the main things I would like to see different in EQN, or any MMO for that matter.
To summarize, I never said that EQN should just be Vanilla WoW re-skinned. My point was just that a lot of what people want out of EQN was what was contained in Vanilla WoW. I absolutely think there are things that can be improved upon in EQN and I would hope they do, but starting with vanilla WoW as a base and expanding from there, using the EQ lore of course, would not be a bad way to begin.
You forget the most important thing
we don't want SOE too