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Bring Back Crowd Control

24

Comments

  • WolfenprideWolfenpride San''doria, WIPosts: 3,988Member
    Can't imagine they would throw away the enchanter class, i'm sure it will be in.
  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    @cirin

    My point is your less damage when cc'd doesn't work, and it still stands.

  • NagelRitterNagelRitter fewefw, CTPosts: 607Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Bigmamajama
    In before the GW2 freaks post to tell you having to rely on OTHER PEOPLE in an MMO is bad.

    I bye a game to play and win, not to be CC'd and lose!

    Since when does GW2 not have CC?

    Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
    Currently playing: GW2, EVE
    Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,731Member Uncommon
    My best moments in EQ came as an Enchanter locking down several mobs at a time......Two of the biggest things missing since classic EQ are good crowd control and a skilled puller who could seperate mobs.....Games need to get away from the "everyone is DPS" mentality and get back to role playing.
  • Damage99Damage99 Upstate, NYPosts: 173Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    My best moments in EQ came as an Enchanter locking down several mobs at a time......Two of the biggest things missing since classic EQ are good crowd control and a skilled puller who could seperate mobs.....Games need to get away from the "everyone is DPS" mentality and get back to role playing.

    Someone who gets it!

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member
    Originally posted by Damage99
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    My best moments in EQ came as an Enchanter locking down several mobs at a time......Two of the biggest things missing since classic EQ are good crowd control and a skilled puller who could seperate mobs.....Games need to get away from the "everyone is DPS" mentality and get back to role playing.

    Someone who gets it!

    Agreed!  Same goes for Bard in DAoC...really after DAoC CC died.  It used to be great to mez a whole group and then keep them locked down while healing and chain pulling endlessly.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member
    Originally posted by jusomdude

    @cirin

    My point is your less damage when cc'd doesn't work, and it still stands.

    Quite simply put...it does.  You never refuted my point at all.  You merely whined about how you would watch your friend die...cool story, no one cares.

     

    To recap what I had ALREADY pointed out, since you obviously overlooked it.

    MMO's are group-based games, so if you are in a group-based fight and are left mez'd indefinitely then your group was merely outplayed.  If your teammates didn't cleanse, heal, or kill the other group then (again), looks like you lost (again).

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • UproarUproar Canton, MIPosts: 520Member Uncommon
    MEZ for the Win!  Assist the Enchanter!

    image

  • jusomdudejusomdude Somewhere, KSPosts: 2,401Member

    @cirin

    LOL, ok, you "win", is your ego soothed now?

  • MaquiameMaquiame Posts: 793Member Uncommon
    Hell yes, I always thought that City of Heroes had the absolute best CC classes along with EQ, it'd be nice to see that again. Thank god its going to be in FFXIV:ARR.

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,421Member Uncommon

    FFXI has crowd control but what happens is in ANY game,if it gets too easy,the dev remove anything that is effective.

    Personally i don't like the lazy approach of devs because we work days,months to improve our player only to see all of our effective abilities get resisted by Bosses.

    What FFXI did on SOME Bosses was give them resistances over time,so the more you used a certain ability,the more they would become resistant to it.However no matter how much you try to make it realistic or a challenge,it still comes down to simple math numbers.

    An example of crowd control but how devs make it meaningless.

    Ok so imagine SOE advances their level of depth in combat design and copy the over time resistance idea.What happens is to make the fight challenging is right about the time your CC is totally resisted like about 25% of a Bosses HP's,they give the Boss it's more powerful counter abilities.SO what happens is the first 75% of the fight is meaningless,the real fight happens at the 25% mark and this is basically what happens in most challenging fights in MANY games.

    You have to realize that if you can just stun or mez/sleep your way to a win,it is not challenging at all.Line up 5 stuns and have 2 Mez/sleepers ready so you can wait for the stun timers to reset and rinse repeat,not good challenging combat.

    I am always thinking and it is really tough to go all out either way,it would be too easy or if you remove CC altogether the players have nothing fun,just boring tank and spank.like i said ,i hate when devs just make Bosses 100% immune that is cheap lazy design,so i guess the resistance over time is the best bet  ,but even that is not a great option,just one that works better.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • ego13ego13 Reno, NVPosts: 267Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    FFXI has crowd control but what happens is in ANY game,if it gets too easy,the dev remove anything that is effective.

    Personally i don't like the lazy approach of devs because we work days,months to improve our player only to see all of our effective abilities get resisted by Bosses.

    What FFXI did on SOME Bosses was give them resistances over time,so the more you used a certain ability,the more they would become resistant to it.However no matter how much you try to make it realistic or a challenge,it still comes down to simple math numbers.

    An example of crowd control but how devs make it meaningless.

    Ok so imagine SOE advances their level of depth in combat design and copy the over time resistance idea.What happens is to make the fight challenging is right about the time your CC is totally resisted like about 25% of a Bosses HP's,they give the Boss it's more powerful counter abilities.SO what happens is the first 75% of the fight is meaningless,the real fight happens at the 25% mark and this is basically what happens in most challenging fights in MANY games.

    You have to realize that if you can just stun or mez/sleep your way to a win,it is not challenging at all.Line up 5 stuns and have 2 Mez/sleepers ready so you can wait for the stun timers to reset and rinse repeat,not good challenging combat.

    I am always thinking and it is really tough to go all out either way,it would be too easy or if you remove CC altogether the players have nothing fun,just boring tank and spank.like i said ,i hate when devs just make Bosses 100% immune that is cheap lazy design,so i guess the resistance over time is the best bet  ,but even that is not a great option,just one that works better.

     

    Again....halved damage during stuns or even higher %age damage reduction during stuns would easily counter this.

    Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.

    image

  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon

    For CC to be required you would need mobs that hit so hard that they cant all be tanked at once .

     

    Just saying .

     

     

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    For PvE yes, crowd control adds a lot to the game. But for PvP, no. There is no fun being the target of a CC and stand helpless as you, or your friends, are getting slaughtered.
  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    I have to agree with OP, my wife played a Enchanter in EQ and was amazing at it, she could use 3-4 different mez spells, and they all had different timers, and she mentally could keep track of what was on each and how long she basically had before they would break...Her favorite class ever, she would be thrilled to have a class like that back.

     

    I played a DE Necro, so I am probably pretty certain their will be a class along those lines in a EQ game, not 100%, but fairly certain their will be pet class casters.

     

  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xthos

    I have to agree with OP, my wife played a Enchanter in EQ and was amazing at it, she could use 3-4 different mez spells, and they all had different timers, and she mentally could keep track of what was on each and how long she basically had before they would break...Her favorite class ever, she would be thrilled to have a class like that back.

     

    I played a DE Necro, so I am probably pretty certain their will be a class along those lines in a EQ game, not 100%, but fairly certain their will be pet class casters.

     

    Of course today people would run some add on that kept track of mez and timers and tell you exactly what mob to mez and when etc making it so easy even a newb could play enchanter .

     

    Enchanter was great in EQ till they made mobs that couldn't be mezed and they became just mana crack dealers .

    It was always fun to charm mobs as pets until it randomly wore off and the ex pet became super agro towards the enchanter :)

     

     

     

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member
    Originally posted by Grailer

    For CC to be required you would need mobs that hit so hard that they cant all be tanked at once .

     

    Just saying .

     

     

    Exactly, the developers have made group monsters too weak or the players too strong .. either way it needs to be corrected.

  • Burdoc101Burdoc101 Fort Campbell, KYPosts: 281Member
    Agree, I miss em.
  • SirFubarSirFubar SeoulPosts: 397Member
    Originally posted by Bigmamajama
    In before the GW2 freaks post to tell you having to rely on OTHER PEOPLE in an MMO is bad.

    Not at all, having to rely on a specific class is.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    For PvE I think robust CC is a great thing, especially if there is no way to mitigate damage to a great degree. For PvP the issues are obvious but usually are remedied by moderation and counters.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Ashville, NCPosts: 363Member

    Amen to that the AOE spam nonsense and everbody is a dps hybrid trash has got to go. My greatest fear about this game is it has all these good features but they will ruin it all using a GW2 ish 5 button spam nonsense. 

    Making everyone dps with no CC and giving everyone minor heals is terrible this was initially the brainchild of Ghostcrawler when he started tearing WOW apart and MOP was the product GW2 is the natural evolution of those bad ideas and because its easier to program combat that way you can bet every fly by night cash grab mmo will do something like it.

     

    On a personal note as well some kind of shapeshifter would be nice as well, I dont know if anyone has noticed but not many games do it. I was a D@D kid before I started playing MUDs and MMOs and druids without shapeshifting feels a ranger with a different weapon. Or even some kind of transmuter, they have really gotten lazy with classes across the board these days. 

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    I want CC back! Please! There's nothing in GW2 worth copying imho.
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wiha
    I want CC back! Please! There's nothing in GW2 worth copying imho.

    There is a lot worth copying from GW2...

     

    But the trinity is not one of them...

     

    Perfect game for me has 6 man teams for normal content...  2 tanks, 2 healers 2 CC/Support classes.... where DPS is a seccondary option every class can switch to on the fly...  DPS is not a tactical role.   Also  the content has to push people to switch from DPS to an offtank, or to use crowd controll, or to assist healing... but there could also be easy content where no tanking and only minor healing is needed.... So for this system to work content needs to be more diverse..

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Wiha
    I want CC back! Please! There's nothing in GW2 worth copying imho.

    There is a lot worth copying from GW2...

     

    But the trinity is not one of them...

     

    Perfect game for me has 6 man teams for normal content...  2 tanks, 2 healers 2 CC/Support classes.... where DPS is a seccondary option every class can switch to on the fly...  DPS is not a tactical role.   Also  the content has to push people to switch from DPS to an offtank, or to use crowd controll, or to assist healing... but there could also be easy content where no tanking and only minor healing is needed.... So for this system to work content needs to be more diverse..

    That was my opinion. I leveled 2 toons up to 80 in GW2 and after that I really think that it's the worst RPG I've ever played and also simplified as an MMO. That's my opinion and nothing will change my first hand experience.

  • FinalFikusFinalFikus Chicago, ILPosts: 906Member
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish

    Amen to that the AOE spam nonsense and everbody is a dps hybrid trash has got to go. My greatest fear about this game is it has all these good features but they will ruin it all using a GW2 ish 5 button spam nonsense. 

    Making everyone dps with no CC and giving everyone minor heals is terrible this was initially the brainchild of Ghostcrawler when he started tearing WOW apart and MOP was the product GW2 is the natural evolution of those bad ideas and because its easier to program combat that way you can bet every fly by night cash grab mmo will do something like it. 

    That's your greatest fear?

    That the game has twitch instead of tab target combat?

    What good features does this game have that will be ruined?  Do you think destructible world or buildings wouldn't be rendered lame by tab target combat? You have to target the side of the barn before hitting it.

     

     

     

    "If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

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