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Call the ambulance WoW under 8 million subs now

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  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,349Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    The interesting thing is, other MMO's populations aren't going up. So people aren't switching games...they are leaving the genre.

    The entire concept of the mmo was bastardized to bring in maximum number of players. This means players who should never have ever played a mmorpg as they were originally intended and created have been drawn into the player base expectations of developers.

     

    Developers shot themselves in their own feet by losing sight of what the mmo market is. It has always been a niche market of players who like rpg style games and came from heavy social and/or rpg backgrounds. Developers like Blizzard hit a home run and then continued trying to cater to the larger crowd which alienated their core audience. Other developers either stuck with their niche audience (and therefore were called failures because they didn't attract millions or tried to copy the themepark concept to bring in players from everywhere instead of striving to creating community).

     

    What I am saying is the you can't expect a constantly growing player base when it is an inflated bubble ready to pop already.

     

    I for one don't fear this issue. The bubble should indeed pop and only then will we see properly build games which target a specific audience. We will start seeing lower population yet very healthy games once developers and the big distributors realize the limitations of the genre.

    You stay sassy!

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,731Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Mothanos
    And of those 7.7 million 5 million are asian.
    Free to play comming at you this winter.

    Yeah, except most of the losses from 12 million to now have been in Asia.


    But who needs facts? Facts are useless in the face of a random internet forum poster.

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,349Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Prenho
    The thing I want to see the most is WoW going to oblivion. i will make party if it happens.It will help the  MMO genre.

    How?

    Don't even listen to people like him. They think the world has to implode before change occurs. Perhaps this is because they can't imagine enough control over their own lives without catastrophic occurrences forcing them to change.

    You stay sassy!

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 6,889Member Rare
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Wake up devs, themepark model doesn't work.

    Ummm...

    Hope this is sarcasm... cause the themepark model works very, very well - depending on the game and the payment model.

    Haha, seriously? Didn't work for WAR, or SWTOR, or AoC, or TSW, or Rift, or LotRO, or any of the other recent flops. When a game merges servers and forces itself to go FTP after a month or so, and developers get fired, it did poorly.

    How many sandbox MMOs are there that prove that model works?

    One? EvE? And, by the way, their 500k peak subscribers is still... let's see.... 6 times less than what you say was the peak WoW subscriber count in the west (3 million.)

    Don't be ignorant.

    We're not talking about sandboxes. DAoC, EQ, AC,  those games grew over time because they weren't built around linear scripted content that you burn through and then leave. They had heavy social elements, which built human ties that kept you on the game. Same for sandboxes like UO, and SWG.

    How many AAA sandbox MMOs have there been? Two. UO, and SWG, and both were massive successes of their time, and didn't start failing until themepark features were added.

    And Eve, which started out as a nothing MMO, is the second biggest MMO in the west, and its a sandox, and its STILL GROWING. Meanwhile, SWTOR, 300 million budget, died instantly.

    SWG was no massive success. It was average for it's time. But the IP also gave it an initial jump start it might not have had if it were any other game besides SW. But I remember very vividly asking guildies where everyone was. And the answer was EQ2. The game was not dead but the decline in population was noticeable. I'm going to tell you something else about this massive success. It was a failure. SWG was a ticking time bomb. That game was set up around a balance of players. Certain balance of Brawlers, Scouts, Politicians, Artisians, Entertainers, Sharp Shooters, etc. But then there was the Jedi. The game was set so that only the very most hardcore elite of the player base would ever take on such a horrific grind. Well, that must have been the thought. But I don't think SoE ever imagined the entire population of SWG wanting to be Jedi. But that's what it turned into. And SWG would not be able to support that kind of shift that was happening. So like it or not, SWG was going to change one way or another. If left alone, it was going to fail from the inside out.

     

    And that brings us to EVE. The biggest contributor to EVE's success is CCP's ability to re monetize the mediocre player base to fund the whole game. They capitalized on the fact that their player base wants multiple accounts and figured out a way to spread that expense across the whole population. That's great for EVE, but don't be looking at the next sandbox for that model. Any game coming out now is having difficulty keeping each player subbed to one account forget about multiples. So then, what does that mean for EVE? Well, if we had a game where one player only needs one account, how many Subs would EVE really have now? Eves' number of active original players is much lower than its subscriptions due to this. What is EVE's current subscription count at?  I read somewhere it's around 250K. I read that here so I have no idea if that's true or not  but if it is then out of all those subs, you merged them into the single account for the player that uses multiples, what would that number be? I'd bet they would be lucky to have a high 5 figure active population. Maybe low 6. That  would spell failure in any other MMO to be released today. 100K subs or less? Please. EVE is just the most successful niche game, but it's not the success story people here love to make it into. Certainly, whatever success they do have in the industry is about as un repeatable as WoW's

    "The Sith attacks!"
                --everyone who's not a Sith.
  • Atomic_PinkAtomic_Pink Edmond, OKPosts: 2Member

    Hey all, I know that I'm new to the forums/site, I've been mostly reading the GW2 forums, I really love GW2 atm, but I've had trouble leveling because there isn't enough people to do events with, and the full realms I can't get into.

    But anyways, I just wanted to say that MoP has probably been my least favorite with Cata being the second.)

    I just can't stand the asian style music and all the asian type names for the bosses, I am in no way racist, but the asian style themes are just not my thing, I really loved Wrath and BC..MoP has just been a huge let down for me. :(

    Does anyone else feel this way..?

  • TygranirTygranir Colordo Springs, COPosts: 741Member
    Why does everyone want WoW to die? I'd much prefer the WoW community stays where it is....

    SWTOR Referral Bonus!
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  • LizardKing89LizardKing89 Ft Wayne, INPosts: 55Member Uncommon
    For all of those people that wait with glee of Wow's impending doom will have a long wait.  The game is still going strong and more fun that ever.  I was skeptical but MoP has been fun as hell and the best expansion since BC.  I don't get all the hate on this site towards WOW.  I guess it's popular to feel superior and hate on the popular and successful. I've tried alot of other mmo's but something keeps me coming back to WoW.  That's the mark of a successful game.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 6,889Member Rare
    Originally posted by LizardKing89
    For all of those people that wait with glee of Wow's impending doom will have a long wait.  The game is still going strong and more fun that ever.  I was skeptical but MoP has been fun as hell and the best expansion since BC.  I don't get all the hate on this site towards WOW.  I guess it's popular to feel superior and hate on the popular and successful. I've tried alot of other mmo's but something keeps me coming back to WoW.  That's the mark of a successful game.

    At any other point in the game's history, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but with current impending business decisions being made by the parent company that owns Blizzard. I can say, I'd be very surprised if we don't see an all out cash shop in WoW very soon.

    "The Sith attacks!"
                --everyone who's not a Sith.
  • DocBrodyDocBrody EldridgePosts: 1,926Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by DocBrody

    from now on it can only go downwards.

    also, lol@the numbers when EQ Next hits the shelves

    People have been saying that the last 8 years.

    "lol@the numbers when Vanguard hits the shelves."

    "lol@the numbers when Age of Conan hits the shelves."

    "lol@the numbers when LOTRO hits the shelves."

    "lol@the numbers when hits the shelves."

    I never hyped any of these games. Vanguard, really?

    I never jumped on board with the TOR/GW2 hype either.

    Well Age of Conan at least is great now,  took them 5 years but it's way too bloody / gory / brutal for WoW players and their cartoon stylized preference. 

  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,381Member Uncommon

    These threads always make me laugh.  Oh no, the game lost this many subs but still has more players than most of the competition combined...it's so dead!

     

    Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will tell you that subs gradually go down (well for the good ones anyways), then they get a boost with new content or expansions, then they slowly fall again...I'm sure ANY developer would love to launch with half the subs WoW has after 10 years...

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    Originally posted by Gravarg

    These threads always make me laugh.  Oh no, the game lost this many subs but still has more players than most of the competition combined...it's so dead!

     

    Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will tell you that subs gradually go down (well for the good ones anyways), then they get a boost with new content or expansions, then they slowly fall again...I'm sure ANY developer would love to launch with half the subs WoW has after 10 years...

     

    ya but...but...all the current "subscribers" are Asian accounts who only play for 1 hour for 3 cents....

  • TheHavokTheHavok San Jose, CAPosts: 2,403Member Uncommon
    Nobody can escape the cracks of time. Blizzard doesn't need to change a thing.  The game is almost 10 years old.  Its already reached all the success it needs to.  Let it age in peace like Everquest and remain a fond memory to many of us.  And for the people that still play it and don't want to play a different mmo - good for them.  As long as they are still having fun, then that's perfectly fine.
  • jimmywolfjimmywolf henderson, NVPosts: 77Member Uncommon
    well said statement, also keep in mind even if went down too 1 mill players, it still be making them money. an by then they just swap things around too cash in on those left playing. also if/when it hits that point, blizzard next MMO will be out an the cycle will continue.
  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 1,173Member Uncommon

    No, from 12M to 7.7M means that 4.3 million people are unemployed and can't afford to pay for MMOs.  When they find work again, they will sub to WoW again. 

    If WoW went down to 1M subs, then the next best MMO would have 1k subs, and everyone else would be playing F2P for free.

    Those of you who think WoW is Dying are the same ilk that didn't believe in Global Warming.  BTW the reason the Republicans denied GW was because they feared that the Oil and Coal companies would be held financially responsible for it.

    Keep ringing that bell, because WoW is sticking around for another 10 years.  The last WoW gamer hasn't been born yet.  Your kids, grandkids, and great grandkids will play WoW, before anything else replaces it. 

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by Gravarg

    These threads always make me laugh.  Oh no, the game lost this many subs but still has more players than most of the competition combined...it's so dead!

     

    Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will tell you that subs gradually go down (well for the good ones anyways), then they get a boost with new content or expansions, then they slowly fall again...I'm sure ANY developer would love to launch with half the subs WoW has after 10 years...

     

    ya but...but...all the current "subscribers" are Asian accounts who only play for 1 hour for 3 cents....

    This.  Not to mention that at 7.7 mil, even if that were the true number of concurrent players - it still isn't nearly "more than most of the competition combined".  Every MMO that takes a lot of time and effort is competing with one another, and I can name a handful of games whose numbers WoW cannot touch.

  • Eir_SEir_S Argyle, NYPosts: 4,623Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Konfess

    No, from 12M to 7.7M means that 4.3 million people are unemployed and can't afford to pay for MMOs.  When they find work again, they will sub to WoW again. 

    Or maybe they're tired of the game.  I have the money to pay for WoW, but I wouldn't go back with all the games on my pc and/or MMOs coming out in the near future.  With all the improvements being made in the genre, it'd be like going back to Runescape when I was playing WoW.

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member Uncommon
    What they have to do is stop releasing shitty expansions. That is all.
  • jagd1jagd1 istanbulPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Prenho
    The thing I want to see the most is WoW going to oblivion. i will make party if it happens.It will help the  MMO genre.

    How?

    Dangerous and fun subject to talk about   image . Because it will stop carbon copies made by mmo industry ? First thing came to my mind

  • intrinscintrinsc EGG HARBOR CITY, NJPosts: 91Member Uncommon
    Comparing sub losses to "dying" is like saying that the Apple iPod line is "dead" because their sales have dropped off severely compared to when it came out and several years after. Don't be ridiculous, guys. People are just trying other things, some will come back periodically, but the fad is over. WoW still has great content, the best raiding in the business, incredibly competitive PVP, and almost 8 million subs. I bet you any MMO out there would kill for 1/8th of that number. Oh, that's right, almost all the other MMOs are F2P now, so they don't have subs. That is 7,700,000 guaranteed sources of income for Blizzard from their WoW franchise month after month going forward barring future decreases, etc. I bet the expansion settles at around 6.5-7million subs before picking another 1.5 million when the new expansion comes out.
  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member
    Originally posted by jagd1
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Prenho
    The thing I want to see the most is WoW going to oblivion. i will make party if it happens.It will help the  MMO genre.

    How?

    Dangerous and fun subject to talk about   image . Because it will stop carbon copies made by mmo industry ? First thing came to my mind

     

    Actually, I would bet the copies would increase. "Guys! Guys! our #1 Themepark MMO competitor is dead! Time for us to move in and take the market!!" x 1000

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 18,767Member Rare
    Originally posted by jagd1
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Prenho
    The thing I want to see the most is WoW going to oblivion. i will make party if it happens.It will help the  MMO genre.

    How?

    Dangerous and fun subject to talk about   image . Because it will stop carbon copies made by mmo industry ? First thing came to my mind

    I'd say years of those kind of games already did that, if you look around you'll see many of the recently announced MMO's are going in different directions. Make no mistake though, whichever design comes out on top of this next crop, will be copied for another decade.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at one's character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • jagd1jagd1 istanbulPosts: 281Member
    Originally posted by intrinsc
    WoW still has great content, the best raiding in the business, incredibly competitive PVP, and almost 8 million subs. I bet you any MMO out there would kill for 1/8th of that number. Oh, that's right, almost all the other MMOs are F2P now,

    Do you realese wow numbers from china and other asian countries  (excluding korea ) is payperhour ? wow has 7.7m players /accounts now but not subs . Subs = 15$ (euro etc ) monthly fee playing player .

    It is impressive how everyone repeating this  blizzard PR  without thinking/ questioning .

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 9,332Member Epic
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Konfess

    No, from 12M to 7.7M means that 4.3 million people are unemployed and can't afford to pay for MMOs.  When they find work again, they will sub to WoW again. 

    Or maybe they're tired of the game.  I have the money to pay for WoW, but I wouldn't go back with all the games on my pc and/or MMOs coming out in the near future.  With all the improvements being made in the genre, it'd be like going back to Runescape when I was playing WoW.

    This is a really good post Eir.  It's the dilemma I have with a few of the old games I like.  I got a letter from Turbine warning me that my two LotRO houses are going to be taken away.  I realized then I probably wasn't going to play the game again. I wasn't going to reinstall the game to get my account in order and it hit me.  I'm done with this game.  The same is true with EQ2 as much as I enjoyed it.  There are too many games now for the time I have and new releases right around the corner.

    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.
  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 1,173Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by Gravarg

    These threads always make me laugh.  Oh no, the game lost this many subs but still has more players than most of the competition combined...it's so dead!

     

    Anyone who knows anything about MMOs will tell you that subs gradually go down (well for the good ones anyways), then they get a boost with new content or expansions, then they slowly fall again...I'm sure ANY developer would love to launch with half the subs WoW has after 10 years...

     

    ya but...but...all the current "subscribers" are Asian accounts who only play for 1 hour for 3 cents....

    This.  Not to mention that at 7.7 mil, even if that were the true number of concurrent players - it still isn't nearly "more than most of the competition combined".  Every MMO that takes a lot of time and effort is competing with one another, and I can name a handful of games whose numbers WoW cannot touch.

    You must be counting Runescape, because 7.7M is more than the total playing any of the WoW killers on the failed shelf( Next to GW2 ).

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.

  • MagicabbageMagicabbage virginia beach, VAPosts: 93Member
    OMG DOWN to 8 MILLION!! that's still more than 4 x the amount of ALL the MMOs currently on the market. Love it or hate it or love to hate it or hate that you once loved it. WoW isn't going anywhere. If EQ can last 14 years and 18 plus expacks then your grand kids will be playing WoW with you in the nursing home. Peace haters
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