This has gotten way beyond out of hand. There has been no discussion about what this thread was intended for and it has become nothing but a lot of complaints and arguing that just fosters hostility which is the complete opposite of what I had intended. As the person who started this thread I would like to have it locked but I would prefer if it was completely deleted as what has been done with it only causes hostility among the people who use this forum.
Originally posted by Fendel84M Just let it go already. The only things that were ever intended to be similar between the two games was the Star Wars IP. This is like comparing KOTOR to Dark Forces.
not true,,the box prices looks similar at launch
and the monthly sub fees
so now we have FIVE different star wars factions
the original swg crowd
the CU crowd
the NGE crowd
the swtor crowd
and the disappointed casual crowd, which im a proud member of
good luck to those , who have to do the next version
Originally posted by JRVthatsME This has gotten way beyond out of hand. There has been no discussion about what this thread was intended for and it has become nothing but a lot of complaints and arguing that just fosters hostility which is the complete opposite of what I had intended. As the person who started this thread I would like to have it locked but I would prefer if it was completely deleted as what has been done with it only causes hostility among the people who use this forum.
if they close it,,they might as well close the swtor forum
love makes blind,,sometimes we get out of line, to defend the Things we love
this is the only place we can discuss these Things,try taking this discussion to the real swtor forums
that would give you a taste of REAL hostility
or see how fast andryah will spin it to EAs advantage
Originally posted by JRVthatsME This has gotten way beyond out of hand. There has been no discussion about what this thread was intended for and it has become nothing but a lot of complaints and arguing that just fosters hostility which is the complete opposite of what I had intended. As the person who started this thread I would like to have it locked but I would prefer if it was completely deleted as what has been done with it only causes hostility among the people who use this forum.
As soon as you put "SWG" in the title any chance of honest discussion went down the tubes. A lot of players have diverse opinions on their favorite "version" of that game and they tend to be pretty stubborn about it.
As to the OP, I'll agree with those that think player bounties would have been nice. Unfortunatly, the voice of the carebear is given more weight these days.I remember arguing with those very type of people on the SWG forums over player bounties and the economic system. It all came down to their being "inconvenienced." They didn't want to be "inconvenienced" with a bounty hunter while playing their jedi, they didn't want to be "inconvenienced" with finding a dancer for buffs and they didn't want to be "inconvenienced" with saving up money and finding a good merchant. Hence the changes we all saw in November 2005. It's also why we didn't see those things in TOR and more than likely won't in any future Star wars game. The player base that these devs cater to want everything handed to them with as little social interaction as possible.
Originally posted by JRVthatsME This has gotten way beyond out of hand. There has been no discussion about what this thread was intended for and it has become nothing but a lot of complaints and arguing that just fosters hostility which is the complete opposite of what I had intended. As the person who started this thread I would like to have it locked but I would prefer if it was completely deleted as what has been done with it only causes hostility among the people who use this forum.
As soon as you put "SWG" in the title any chance of honest discussion went down the tubes. A lot of players have diverse opinions on their favorite "version" of that game and they tend to be pretty stubborn about it.
As to the OP, I'll agree with those that think player bounties would have been nice. Unfortunatly, the voice of the carebear is given more weight these days.I remember arguing with those very type of people on the SWG forums over player bounties and the economic system. It all came down to their being "inconvenienced." They didn't want to be "inconvenienced" with a bounty hunter while playing their jedi, they didn't want to be "inconvenienced" with finding a dancer for buffs and they didn't want to be "inconvenienced" with saving up money and finding a good merchant. Hence the changes we all saw in November 2005. It's also why we didn't see those things in TOR and more than likely won't in any future Star wars game. The player base that these devs cater to want everything handed to them with as little social interaction as possible.
I'm not sure which side of the argument you are on. I thought having everything that players could work for also available on the Cartel Market was having stuff handed to "them", with as little social interaction as possible.
It is the sad fate of Star Wars MMORPG's that the devs seem to think that they know what Star Wars fans want better than we do ourselves... this thinking gave us the SWG NGE and Combat "upgrade" as well as SWTOR's "Free to Play" model. Until a company gets the Star Wars IP and actually listens to the gamer feedback and adjusts content accordingly, all Star Wars MMORPG's will suffer similar fates.
If I'm jaded it's because SOE and Bioware made me that way.
Originally posted by superniceguySWG was fine 2003-2004. CU and NGE happened in 2005, WOW happened in 2004. Without WOWs super high numbers, CU and NGE may not have happened. The $$ was enough before WOW, but they wanted what Blizzard was getting.
How many times do I have to link the dev blog at you before you will accept that players were leaving in droves and that is what triggered the cu+nge. It was not greed or any of the other bullshit you keep spewing.
In Oct 2004 when JTL came out (when SWG was doing well) devs talked about the CU because they felt the game wasn't what they wanted at release, however their plans for the CU turned nothing like how the CU actually came out. Almost every 2-3 months during 2003-early 2004 they were revamping professions that needed fine tuning (droid engineer, chef, rifleman) because they didn't have time to finish it before releae day.
Late Oct-early Nov 2004 was when WoW came out and that's when it put a dent in active players, my guild lost about half that overnight and most of them didn't come back til the CU came out (to try it out), WoW was responsible for most of the downfall, it happened to other existing ames as well (such as City of Heroes). And then after WoW's huge initial success there came tons of WoW-clone MMO games that tanked and the only MMO games to withstand WoW's heat were Everquest, Aion and Guild Wars. IIRC pre-WoW the most amount of players a western game had was Everquest (~500K) and then SWG was right behind it.
I can understand people getting worked up when it comes to a game that they loved believe me. As I said I was a City of Heroes player. But for SWG players there is SWGEMU. The code was given to players to make non profit use of and play for free. I know there's not a lot of players playing it and many who don't play it because there's not a lot of players. Though I suspect that if everyone who doesn't play SWGEMU because there aren't enough players actually went in and played it that problem would be solved. Maybe some of ye blame SWTOR for SWG not being continued but at least you haven't had your game completely taken away with no justification, explanation and on the rare occasion when the publisher said anything about the game being gone they responded with mostly lies. I know how ye feel believe me and all I wanted to do was to think up some things that could (which doesn't mean that they will of course) work in the SWTOR game that could make it more enjoyable in the long term and also make it feel slightly more like home for SWG players since I am sympathetic. I know SWTOR will never replace SWG for those who were devoted to it and it will never be SWG 2 but ye have SWGEMU which is a nicer situation to be in after a game closes down.
I play emu from time to time, caps at 3000 players which it often did before GW2 came out, now it averages 1600 players and that includes same account alts.
The gameplay mechanics and features of pre-CU were the best for a MMO, but the thing that put people off was that they could not see past all the bugs it brought. WOW was a smooth running game, and it attracted more people. If SWG was as smooth, bug-free, and polished as WOW was, I reckon it would have done better.
SWG you had characters / NPCs floating in the air, with every update it could break something (usually temporary but could be permanent) eg crafting station / factory hoppers not being able to open or items go temporarily missing, or harvestors lose resources, more down time, roll backs etc
It is not surprising that people did not want to play the game, but the features were so awesome that myself and others saw past all the bugs, and persevered with the game.
It is a shame as the bugs is what is making devs not use SWG features for other MMOs, they just see the gameplay mechanics and features as what turned people off, which is a misconception. Now with WOWs success they use WOW as a template, but that does not work out, as WOW is WOW, and why play a WOW clone when WOW does WOW the best. Devs have gotten lazy and just copy ideas, instead of take peoples feedback and come up with something fresh, they probably do listen peoples feedback but have been using WOW as a template
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb," Zeschuk said.
What a MMO is game where the world can be manipulated by the players. SWG did this with player housing / cities, harvestors, mission terminals etc EQN is supposed to do something like this too, but probably not in this manner, and another game coming is Project Spark for Xbox.
Games like SWTOR, WOW etc are boring as the game just stays the same (player wise). It was great in SWG as you could either gaze in awe at other players efforts or show off your own expertise (every structure you see from the Kashyyyk Tree houses to the Cloud City house to the AT-AT house and Millennium Falcon house was what I added to the game) and not be in game to do so. It also gave more motivation for playing game, as if you play slowly then you could lose out on a plot of land
The best WOW clone so far is LOTRO, as it has a pretty decent player housing system, and you can manipulate the land around your house with various different objects. If SWTOR had this it would make it seriously more interesting.
From SWG, the Creature Handler/Bio Engineer (or after NGE, Beast Master) features were pretty awesome. You could go hunting animals for DNA and make your own pets and then train them up.
SWTOR basically just needs more depth and be more of a MMO, but it is just a single player game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age with multiplayer bolted on.
I agree with that. And that is why I think some sandbox like elements would help balance out a theme park game like SWTOR. LOTRO has a decent player housing system and even something like that in SWTOR would go a long way to helping players enjoy it long term. Though I do think something more like what was done in Villagers and Heroes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qufyYRoxizQ could be made in SWTOR (though clearly not in the same younger audience style as Villagers and Heroes is). "If" would could have a system in place for making settlements (Having thought about it I think the name settlement works better then colony since it could suit a player community on a city planet as well as other planets) and finally get Guild capitol ships (which I imagine would work along the lines of Fleet star bases in STO) then we would have reasonably player run community locations for player driven game play.
The gameplay mechanics and features of pre-CU were the best for a MMO, but the thing that put people off was that they could not see past all the bugs it brought. WOW was a smooth running game, and it attracted more people. If SWG was as smooth, bug-free, and polished as WOW was, I reckon it would have done better.
SWG you had characters / NPCs floating in the air, with every update it could break something (usually temporary but could be permanent) eg crafting station / factory hoppers not being able to open or items go temporarily missing, or harvestors lose resources, more down time, roll backs etc
It is not surprising that people did not want to play the game, but the features were so awesome that myself and others saw past all the bugs, and persevered with the game.
It is a shame as the bugs is what is making devs not use SWG features for other MMOs, they just see the gameplay mechanics and features as what turned people off, which is a misconception. Now with WOWs success they use WOW as a template, but that does not work out, as WOW is WOW, and why play a WOW clone when WOW does WOW the best. Devs have gotten lazy and just copy ideas, instead of take peoples feedback and come up with something fresh, they probably do listen peoples feedback but have been using WOW as a template
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb," Zeschuk said.
What a MMO is game where the world can be manipulated by the players. SWG did this with player housing / cities, harvestors, mission terminals etc EQN is supposed to do something like this too, but probably not in this manner, and another game coming is Project Spark for Xbox.
Games like SWTOR, WOW etc are boring as the game just stays the same (player wise). It was great in SWG as you could either gaze in awe at other players efforts or show off your own expertise (every structure you see from the Kashyyyk Tree houses to the Cloud City house to the AT-AT house and Millennium Falcon house was what I added to the game) and not be in game to do so. It also gave more motivation for playing game, as if you play slowly then you could lose out on a plot of land
The best WOW clone so far is LOTRO, as it has a pretty decent player housing system, and you can manipulate the land around your house with various different objects. If SWTOR had this it would make it seriously more interesting.
From SWG, the Creature Handler/Bio Engineer (or after NGE, Beast Master) features were pretty awesome. You could go hunting animals for DNA and make your own pets and then train them up.
SWTOR basically just needs more depth and be more of a MMO, but it is just a single player game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age with multiplayer bolted on.
you obviously havent played wow
the modern wow is a totally different game, than at launch
and, what you say is essentially this: swg would have been a great game, if they had made it Work as intended
seeing, what sony have done with dcuo, i dont think , they were the problem
so,,it all boils Down to this: sandbox( which doesnt Work for big games), or themepark,
which almost every mmo , and certainly the big ones, use
and why is the best sandbox game so low on subs, that a small newbie dev, like bluehole
can launch tera, and get more subs, in so short time?
i know those subs didnt stay for long, simply because its an Eastern grind game..aion didnt do so well here either
i wil give you one thing , though..the themepark market is full, any new themepark mmo will have a hard time
getting the launch bugs out, before the players leave,and yet, they keep on coming
AFAIK the last sandbox launch was TSW, right? that should give you a clue on sandbox merits
Comments
not true,,the box prices looks similar at launch
and the monthly sub fees
so now we have FIVE different star wars factions
the original swg crowd
the CU crowd
the NGE crowd
the swtor crowd
and the disappointed casual crowd, which im a proud member of
good luck to those , who have to do the next version
prepare to be flamed
and prepare to get fired
if they close it,,they might as well close the swtor forum
love makes blind,,sometimes we get out of line, to defend the Things we love
this is the only place we can discuss these Things,try taking this discussion to the real swtor forums
that would give you a taste of REAL hostility
or see how fast andryah will spin it to EAs advantage
As soon as you put "SWG" in the title any chance of honest discussion went down the tubes. A lot of players have diverse opinions on their favorite "version" of that game and they tend to be pretty stubborn about it.
As to the OP, I'll agree with those that think player bounties would have been nice. Unfortunatly, the voice of the carebear is given more weight these days.I remember arguing with those very type of people on the SWG forums over player bounties and the economic system. It all came down to their being "inconvenienced." They didn't want to be "inconvenienced" with a bounty hunter while playing their jedi, they didn't want to be "inconvenienced" with finding a dancer for buffs and they didn't want to be "inconvenienced" with saving up money and finding a good merchant. Hence the changes we all saw in November 2005. It's also why we didn't see those things in TOR and more than likely won't in any future Star wars game. The player base that these devs cater to want everything handed to them with as little social interaction as possible.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I'm not sure which side of the argument you are on. I thought having everything that players could work for also available on the Cartel Market was having stuff handed to "them", with as little social interaction as possible.
/boggle
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
It is the sad fate of Star Wars MMORPG's that the devs seem to think that they know what Star Wars fans want better than we do ourselves... this thinking gave us the SWG NGE and Combat "upgrade" as well as SWTOR's "Free to Play" model. Until a company gets the Star Wars IP and actually listens to the gamer feedback and adjusts content accordingly, all Star Wars MMORPG's will suffer similar fates.
If I'm jaded it's because SOE and Bioware made me that way.
Late Oct-early Nov 2004 was when WoW came out and that's when it put a dent in active players, my guild lost about half that overnight and most of them didn't come back til the CU came out (to try it out), WoW was responsible for most of the downfall, it happened to other existing ames as well (such as City of Heroes). And then after WoW's huge initial success there came tons of WoW-clone MMO games that tanked and the only MMO games to withstand WoW's heat were Everquest, Aion and Guild Wars. IIRC pre-WoW the most amount of players a western game had was Everquest (~500K) and then SWG was right behind it.
I play emu from time to time, caps at 3000 players which it often did before GW2 came out, now it averages 1600 players and that includes same account alts.
The gameplay mechanics and features of pre-CU were the best for a MMO, but the thing that put people off was that they could not see past all the bugs it brought. WOW was a smooth running game, and it attracted more people. If SWG was as smooth, bug-free, and polished as WOW was, I reckon it would have done better.
SWG you had characters / NPCs floating in the air, with every update it could break something (usually temporary but could be permanent) eg crafting station / factory hoppers not being able to open or items go temporarily missing, or harvestors lose resources, more down time, roll backs etc
It is not surprising that people did not want to play the game, but the features were so awesome that myself and others saw past all the bugs, and persevered with the game.
It is a shame as the bugs is what is making devs not use SWG features for other MMOs, they just see the gameplay mechanics and features as what turned people off, which is a misconception. Now with WOWs success they use WOW as a template, but that does not work out, as WOW is WOW, and why play a WOW clone when WOW does WOW the best. Devs have gotten lazy and just copy ideas, instead of take peoples feedback and come up with something fresh, they probably do listen peoples feedback but have been using WOW as a template
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb," Zeschuk said.
What a MMO is game where the world can be manipulated by the players. SWG did this with player housing / cities, harvestors, mission terminals etc EQN is supposed to do something like this too, but probably not in this manner, and another game coming is Project Spark for Xbox.
Games like SWTOR, WOW etc are boring as the game just stays the same (player wise). It was great in SWG as you could either gaze in awe at other players efforts or show off your own expertise (every structure you see from the Kashyyyk Tree houses to the Cloud City house to the AT-AT house and Millennium Falcon house was what I added to the game) and not be in game to do so. It also gave more motivation for playing game, as if you play slowly then you could lose out on a plot of land
The best WOW clone so far is LOTRO, as it has a pretty decent player housing system, and you can manipulate the land around your house with various different objects. If SWTOR had this it would make it seriously more interesting.
From SWG, the Creature Handler/Bio Engineer (or after NGE, Beast Master) features were pretty awesome. You could go hunting animals for DNA and make your own pets and then train them up.
SWTOR basically just needs more depth and be more of a MMO, but it is just a single player game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age with multiplayer bolted on.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
you obviously havent played wow
the modern wow is a totally different game, than at launch
and, what you say is essentially this: swg would have been a great game, if they had made it Work as intended
seeing, what sony have done with dcuo, i dont think , they were the problem
so,,it all boils Down to this: sandbox( which doesnt Work for big games), or themepark,
which almost every mmo , and certainly the big ones, use
and why is the best sandbox game so low on subs, that a small newbie dev, like bluehole
can launch tera, and get more subs, in so short time?
i know those subs didnt stay for long, simply because its an Eastern grind game..aion didnt do so well here either
i wil give you one thing , though..the themepark market is full, any new themepark mmo will have a hard time
getting the launch bugs out, before the players leave,and yet, they keep on coming
AFAIK the last sandbox launch was TSW, right? that should give you a clue on sandbox merits