So... there are people who would argue that a game like EVE can't be successful because people hate open-world PVP. Has EVE proven them wrong? I heard hi-sec is the most densely-populated part of the map which suggests a lot of people enjoy the game enough to pay a monthly subscription fee without ever actually being exposed to high risk for griefing...
ITT: People with no imagination who seem to think OP's suggestion literally means an exact copy of EVE in a fantasy environment as opposed to an adaptation of its focus and features, based on EVE's alluring territorial conflict and consequence-based world with both PvE and PvP with harsh penalties to create a supply and demand economy.
You are wonderful.
Originally posted by DocBrody
OP
you are talking about EQ Next?
For this thread I'm pondering more generally, but yeah, I did get the idea from everything I've read about EQ Next. Smedley seems to be a huge EVE fan.
I wouldn't really say he's an sandbox fan at all. Just a developer that realizes all these people are playing sub-par games, which means that the audience and/or convertible audience is larger than is the current player base.
Actually, he is an EVE fan. He has admitted to playing and enjoying it very much.
Originally posted by arieste One problem is that you can't decorate an endless number of overland zones with the same 100 distant stars and 20 space-station graphics. It just doesn't work.
Nothing against Eve, but this is a very good point I think a lot of people fail to notice. Eve has it 100 times easier when it comes to generating a world(universe) compared to land based MMOs. Not to say it doesn't take work, but totally different ball game.
Dunno about Pathfinder Online's combat. I'm thinking more of Black Desert and Gloria Victis. Or wait and see how CCP's next mmorpg, World of Darkness, will be.
Originally posted by benseine Dunno about Pathfinder Online's combat. I'm thinking more of Black Desert and Gloria Victis. Or wait and see how CCP's next mmorpg, World of Darkness, will be.
Correct: PFO combat won't be actiony combat but the game design sets out a lot of EVE's sandbox-simulation in a lot of ways according to their blogs - but for fantasy.
Of the above WoD and EQ:N are the only other sandbox mmorpgs I'm aware of that have strong potential in terms of a similar coherent strategy.
So in other words... massive sandbox with a healthy population of PVE and PVP players. But with swords, magic, castles, etc.
Thoughts?
Isn't this basically what Darkfall is?
If Darkfall was even remotely close to the production quality of EVE, it would be known... ;-)
Darkfall is more than what Eve was at this point in it's development cycle. Eve became the game it is over a decade. 8-10 years ago, it was a shadow of the game it is now. In fact it was downright awful. The only reason people stuck with it was because it had a monopoly on the space MMO genre. If you want that sort of game, your not going to get it delivered fresh and hot out of a box.
Originally posted by arieste One problem is that you can't decorate an endless number of overland zones with the same 100 distant stars and 20 space-station graphics. It just doesn't work.
Nothing against Eve, but this is a very good point I think a lot of people fail to notice. Eve has it 100 times easier when it comes to generating a world(universe) compared to land based MMOs. Not to say it doesn't take work, but totally different ball game.
I'm picturing the terrain of Planetside 2... really basic stuff, a few different climates. Lots of land. Players landscape and build stuff on top of this sandbox.
Of course, EVE is a big universe. The devs of the fantasy version would have to spend a bit more time creating environment templates to keep stuff interesting.
Originally posted by Bossalinie What would be the equivalent of a Titan? A Trojan Horse or Flaming Trebuchet?
Lineage II uses giant golems for their siege warfare as far as i remember.
the fantasy equivalent of a titan wouldnt be of course a kilometers long thing with uber damage, but something like a real powerfull siege engine capable of large amounts of damage to structures or other machines of its kind.
a Trojan Horse doesnt enter there because it wasnt a siege engine, i think somethink akin to an Helepolis would be a better analogy. they were one of the biggest siege machines ever built, but became useless with the coming of gunpowder and cannons.
it really depends on the setting, if the game doesnt use guns or things like that and keeps more to a high medieval age, then it has sense to make things like trebuchets or battery rams. but if the game features guns then it doesnt have certain sense to have cities built with large walls since siege cannons can destroy them.
i would say that the best approach would be to have player combat and vehicle combat, be it naval warfare or aerial warfare using airships. the equivalent to titans in that sense would be the biggest ships avaliable that can serve as almost movile HQs with good damage against structures and other very large vehicles of its kind...
So in other words... massive sandbox with a healthy population of PVE and PVP players. But with swords, magic, castles, etc.
Thoughts?
It would be the holy grail of games...
Like so many i love what EvE achieves, but i just feel detached from the game with just a ship and games for me are about immersion, with my toon being the link between me and the virtual world.
I don't know if the real-time offline skilling would work in a fantasy environment.
I can conceive of a guy learning Mechanical Engineering V without ever having to make a repair in combat far easier than a guy learning Swords V without ever having to actually use a sword in combat.
When technology is the killer, the lethality is in the book learning. When hand to hand combat is the killer, the lethality is in the doing.
You can actually learn a lot about melee from books as well.
http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm Here is a bunch of good works from the old masters (I prefer Tallhoffer myself). If you add training to it you have the potential of being really great without ever been in a real battle.
But I think a mix between offline and ingame experience would be best for a fantasy or historical MMO.
Darkfall is more than what Eve was at this point in it's development cycle. Eve became the game it is over a decade. 8-10 years ago, it was a shadow of the game it is now. In fact it was downright awful. The only reason people stuck with it was because it had a monopoly on the space MMO genre. If you want that sort of game, your not going to get it delivered fresh and hot out of a box.
That is partly because of economical reasons, Eve had a really low budget at launch. I have a feeling that WoDO will be a lot more complete at launch.
MMOs do always evolve but with the right devs and budget you can get a great game out of the box, even a great game that isn't like something before it.
Right now besides WoDO I also keep my eyes on Undead labs Class 4, it is a zombie sandbox MMO with some rather experienced devs (including Blizzards old lead programmer from Diablo and WC3).
Darkfall is more than what Eve was at this point in it's development cycle. Eve became the game it is over a decade. 8-10 years ago, it was a shadow of the game it is now. In fact it was downright awful. The only reason people stuck with it was because it had a monopoly on the space MMO genre. If you want that sort of game, your not going to get it delivered fresh and hot out of a box.
That is partly because of economical reasons, Eve had a really low budget at launch. I have a feeling that WoDO will be a lot more complete at launch.
MMOs do always evolve but with the right devs and budget you can get a great game out of the box, even a great game that isn't like something before it.
Right now besides WoDO I also keep my eyes on Undead labs Class 4, it is a zombie sandbox MMO with some rather experienced devs (including Blizzards old lead programmer from Diablo and WC3).
Mhhh the production quality of Darkfall and its sequel are abysmally bad compared to the production quality of EvE, even back at release. There's a reason why EvE is close to having 500k players while the Darkfall series never passed even 50k (10% of eve). More people would play Darkfall if it was more of a sandbox and less of a gank fest, but also if it had higher production quality.
Can you elaborate on how you measure the production quality of EVE and Darkfall respectively?
Production quality = quality of the engine, of the graphics, of the animations, of the audio, of the world/universe design, of game mechanics, of content design and of course the absence of bugs, lag and other issues.
Darkfall:UW has made SOME progress compared to the first on some aspects, the animations and audio are still horrible but at least you don't see the sun through the floor anymore, but concerning game mechanics and content design...
Granted, EVE had it easier because of the space based design, but they got it right with things like their security levels.
That's my point. I don't want to be part of a game were John Doe, 20 years old, who stopped his studies and has no job, plays 12 hours a day in his mom's basement and can therefore dictate how I have to play the game or he'll make the experience a pain in the ass for me. Something akin to that gank guild in EvE, by the way... the "Goons". If the ability to control the game was expanded even more than in EvE, who do you think would rule the world? People like the "Goons", of course, and they would be delighted... Imagine yourself bowing to "Lord Goon", because you basically have no choice, you play 10 hours a week, he plays 10 hours a day.
Unless you're actually a member of Goons, I don't see how they can dictate how you play. During the three years I played Eve, I can honestly say that Goons and every other large alliance had virtually zero impact on how I played.
People who don't play EVE often don't get how incredibly enormous the map is:
Every single one of those tiny little dots is a star system. There are thousands of them. After seven years playing there are great swathes of the map where I have either never been or have just taken the quickest route through. There are - by design - hundreds of out of the way little clusters where players are quietly minding their own business, advancing their own projects and rarely giving a moment's thought to what the mighty player empires are doing. If you live in, say, The Great Wildlands then what goes on in Fountain is barely a rumour to you.
And that's just K-space. Wormhole space is another 2500 or so systems on top of that, hidden from the map and only accessible by constantly shifting, treacherously unstable wormholes - and the top alliances in W-space simply couldn't care less about any "King Of Space", and would take gleeful pleasure in brutally crushing any attempt to make them try.
I must have missed something with Eve...It felt like I was watching paint dry the entire time I played.....I would have zero interest in a fantasy game like that.
Originally posted by Theocritus I must have missed something with Eve...It felt like I was watching paint dry the entire time I played.....I would have zero interest in a fantasy game like that.
You have to go out and find the action; it doesn't come to you. People who "wait for EVE to start being fun" are as likely to succeed as people who wait for their life to start being a success. And for pretty much the same reason.
I had a blast with Eve, but maybe it's because I'm getting older or for some other reason I'm much preferring the non-competitive PvE world of GW2 these days. I personally like, a lot, being in full control of whether or not I engage in PvP, which I do often. But sometimes I need a break from it and like to casual out a bit in PvE, or maybe take on a challenging dungeon or the like. When I'm in casual mode PvP should be my choice, not someone elses. So for me, even though the idea is and should be appealing to many, I wouldn't bother with another MMO in the Eve style these days.
So in other words... massive sandbox with a healthy population of PVE and PVP players. But with swords, magic, castles, etc.
Thoughts?
My thought is ... World of Darkness
I learned about that one in this thread. Looks pretty cool. Not crazy about the overplayed vampire theme, but the rest of the game sounds so awesome I'll have to try it. Really hope this one winds up on PS4... CCP was said to be developing something for next-gen consoles.
Comments
Actually, he is an EVE fan. He has admitted to playing and enjoying it very much.
Nothing against Eve, but this is a very good point I think a lot of people fail to notice. Eve has it 100 times easier when it comes to generating a world(universe) compared to land based MMOs. Not to say it doesn't take work, but totally different ball game.
Pathfinder Online.
https://goblinworks.com/blog/
Read it, it's all there. Game looks ridiculous, and I hate hype trains, but if they pull off half of what they plan it'll be impressive.
It's pretty much exactly Eve as a fantasy MMO.
Or wait and see how CCP's next mmorpg, World of Darkness, will be.
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Correct: PFO combat won't be actiony combat but the game design sets out a lot of EVE's sandbox-simulation in a lot of ways according to their blogs - but for fantasy.
Of the above WoD and EQ:N are the only other sandbox mmorpgs I'm aware of that have strong potential in terms of a similar coherent strategy.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Darkfall is more than what Eve was at this point in it's development cycle. Eve became the game it is over a decade. 8-10 years ago, it was a shadow of the game it is now. In fact it was downright awful. The only reason people stuck with it was because it had a monopoly on the space MMO genre. If you want that sort of game, your not going to get it delivered fresh and hot out of a box.
I'm picturing the terrain of Planetside 2... really basic stuff, a few different climates. Lots of land. Players landscape and build stuff on top of this sandbox.
Of course, EVE is a big universe. The devs of the fantasy version would have to spend a bit more time creating environment templates to keep stuff interesting.
Lineage II uses giant golems for their siege warfare as far as i remember.
the fantasy equivalent of a titan wouldnt be of course a kilometers long thing with uber damage, but something like a real powerfull siege engine capable of large amounts of damage to structures or other machines of its kind.
a Trojan Horse doesnt enter there because it wasnt a siege engine, i think somethink akin to an Helepolis would be a better analogy. they were one of the biggest siege machines ever built, but became useless with the coming of gunpowder and cannons.
it really depends on the setting, if the game doesnt use guns or things like that and keeps more to a high medieval age, then it has sense to make things like trebuchets or battery rams. but if the game features guns then it doesnt have certain sense to have cities built with large walls since siege cannons can destroy them.
i would say that the best approach would be to have player combat and vehicle combat, be it naval warfare or aerial warfare using airships. the equivalent to titans in that sense would be the biggest ships avaliable that can serve as almost movile HQs with good damage against structures and other very large vehicles of its kind...
It would be the holy grail of games...
Like so many i love what EvE achieves, but i just feel detached from the game with just a ship and games for me are about immersion, with my toon being the link between me and the virtual world.
You can actually learn a lot about melee from books as well.
http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm Here is a bunch of good works from the old masters (I prefer Tallhoffer myself). If you add training to it you have the potential of being really great without ever been in a real battle.
But I think a mix between offline and ingame experience would be best for a fantasy or historical MMO.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
That is partly because of economical reasons, Eve had a really low budget at launch. I have a feeling that WoDO will be a lot more complete at launch.
MMOs do always evolve but with the right devs and budget you can get a great game out of the box, even a great game that isn't like something before it.
Right now besides WoDO I also keep my eyes on Undead labs Class 4, it is a zombie sandbox MMO with some rather experienced devs (including Blizzards old lead programmer from Diablo and WC3).
Can you elaborate on how you measure the production quality of EVE and Darkfall respectively?
Thanks.
People who don't play EVE often don't get how incredibly enormous the map is:
http://www.eveonline.com/universe/the-world-of-eve/
Every single one of those tiny little dots is a star system. There are thousands of them. After seven years playing there are great swathes of the map where I have either never been or have just taken the quickest route through. There are - by design - hundreds of out of the way little clusters where players are quietly minding their own business, advancing their own projects and rarely giving a moment's thought to what the mighty player empires are doing. If you live in, say, The Great Wildlands then what goes on in Fountain is barely a rumour to you.
And that's just K-space. Wormhole space is another 2500 or so systems on top of that, hidden from the map and only accessible by constantly shifting, treacherously unstable wormholes - and the top alliances in W-space simply couldn't care less about any "King Of Space", and would take gleeful pleasure in brutally crushing any attempt to make them try.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
You have to go out and find the action; it doesn't come to you. People who "wait for EVE to start being fun" are as likely to succeed as people who wait for their life to start being a success. And for pretty much the same reason.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Oderint, dum metuant.
My thought is ... World of Darkness
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
I learned about that one in this thread. Looks pretty cool. Not crazy about the overplayed vampire theme, but the rest of the game sounds so awesome I'll have to try it. Really hope this one winds up on PS4... CCP was said to be developing something for next-gen consoles.
Like the original UO Pre-trammel? Did it, done it, miss it.
I find it so silly that people are honestly making judgments on a game that hasn't even been announced yet...