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[Column] General: Selling Gear for Cash

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Comments

  • geoxer2222geoxer2222 pasadena, TXPosts: 40Member
    If they can keep pay to win people a year behind all players who earn there stuff then i am fine with it. You have let your content set in the fridge for a little bit before u just throw it out in the garbage. Vanity items should be main thing for cash shops, rich wear gucci while rest us are wearing cucci.
  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by swizards01
    I want a real money cash grab so i can buy a new computer for my hard work in the game. For people that have a job and no time to play the game. They can buy my rare item, i don't care how many times they can kill me on pvp because i got a real money. Those people getting board the game they can sell the item to get there money back. The developer can also earn money daily for those people selling item by collecting tax. You can trade your gold in the market only, not in other character for safe. And no other website can sell the gold because you can't trade it in other character.

    agree

     

    as long as players can freely trade virtual gold

    you will have P2W issues in any mmo regardless of ftp or sub or existing cash shop

     

    to players claiming they will avoid any mmo with a cash shop

    that should apply to any mmo that enables the ability to buy ingame items off ebay too  (looking at you Blizzard)

    http://www.wowlootcards.com/

  • LizardEgyptLizardEgypt Yarmouth, NSPosts: 337Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by swizards01
    I want a real money cash grab so i can buy a new computer for my hard work in the game. For people that have a job and no time to play the game. They can buy my rare item, i don't care how many times they can kill me on pvp because i got a real money. Those people getting board the game they can sell the item to get there money back. The developer can also earn money daily for those people selling item by collecting tax. You can trade your gold in the market only, not in other character for safe. And no other website can sell the gold because you can't trade it in other character.

    agree

     

    as long as players can freely trade virtual gold

    you will have P2W issues in any mmo regardless of ftp or sub or existing cash shop

     

    to players claiming they will avoid any mmo with a cash shop

    that should apply to any mmo that enables the ability to buy ingame items off ebay too  (looking at you Blizzard)

    http://www.wowlootcards.com/

    Not quite buddy. If people choose to pay ridiculous amounts of money for hard earned character accounts that someone else farmed. That is entirely different than having a game's integrity ripped apart so they can implement a way to sell gear and items for absolutely zero effort from the player. Nice try though, it was almost logic.

     

    Currently playing - FF14ARR
    Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fendel84M

    People have been buying gear for real money since EQ1. Only difference is the developers weren't making the money. So in reality it doesn't trivialize anything since it's been going on forever whether you knew about it or not.

    If gear is bought in a forest and no one is there to see it. Does it effect your gameplay?

    It does as developers develop for the Shop, instead of developing a world.

    When a Gold Seller sells gold to buy gear, he/she actually creates a new commodity. One that gets paid for twice. Twice because the developer sold it to you with the sub. Then you pay again for the GoldSellers's gold.

    This system, although against the TOS, actually allows the developer to stay focused on making a game, and not focusing on developing for the cash shop. Here we can find an argument that this system is actually better for gamers. Would you rather a developer spend time on vanity items, pets, boost potions, and the like? Or would you prefer they spent their time on the environment and the game play?

     

  • OfficialFlowOfficialFlow HelsinkiPosts: 111Member

    rift is a bad example since it only sells gear to a point, the best gear can only be attained through gameplay other than that i really dont care as long as it doesnt affect the game balance (besides rift is a bad game anyway)

    the ability to give money to do or get something faster doesnt bother me as long as the speed i can get it with normal gameplay is reasonable if game forces me to Raid or PvP in order to get something FUCK THAT GAME I DO WHAT I WANT so it might be good to have an option to buy the crap but its not like i would actualy bother buying them, in fact i wouldnt even fart to the direction  of a game like that

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Cash shops killed the mmorpg.

    Like Video, and the Radio Star?

  • PlumpPlump Acushnet, MAPosts: 10Member

    Just registered to voice my overwhelming opinion against, here's why...

     

     

    Buying gear for cash is a cancer to gaming. It should never have been incorporated at all. In the past, cheating (buying gear with real $$) was a grey area handled by shady third party sites. The player risked account actions and/or perma ban when engaging in such cheating. Fast forward to recent times, this cheating is openly embraced and welcomed. Sad just sad.

     

     

    let me make my point clear and precise---Buying any non-cosmetic item with real world currency imo is cheating and completely trivializes/underscores the accomplishments of players that EARN the same items. At the very least, there should be separate servers in all games that offer P2W. One for the lazy, entitled bunch and one for those able to put the time in to earn such rewards.

     

     

    Let me emphasize, the argument of "I don't have the time to spend 8 hours a day farming and doing dailies, so I rather buy the gear/items" is completely invalid in the traditional MMORPG sense. If you can't commit to the time investment required to achieve in game goals, then more than likely that game isn't for you. IT IS OK for games to appeal to niche/minority playerbases. When was it decided that EVERY person should have EQUAL opportunity to experience ALL aspects that a  game has to offer? That dynamic right there, Is at the very heart of what is wrong with modern gaming.

     

     

    The truth is, [Greed] motivates 99% of the gaming industry now. There is no more genuine intention to put out revolutionary titles to move the genre forward. Corporate mentality rules the realm and when tasked with taking a risk or playing it safe...We all know what side of the coin that decision tends to land.

     

     
  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by LizardEgypt

    Not quite buddy. If people choose to pay ridiculous amounts of money for hard earned character accounts that someone else farmed. That is entirely different than having a game's integrity ripped apart so they can implement a way to sell gear and items for absolutely zero effort from the player. Nice try though, it was almost logic.

    when you allow the ability to sell an ebay item on your auction house (that is paid with real money) to other players - thats a problem for me

     

    you dont care if game companies allow their virtual items bought on Ebay are converted to gold ingame?

    http://www.wowtcgloot.com/auction_house.htm

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Cash shops killed the mmorpg.

    I don't know. I think there was an intermediate step in the process. Cash Shops are now the rule of thumb because MMOs cannot retain players long enough to make long term profits on subscriptions. That came about because of developers listening to players bitch about how unfair games are since they paid their 15 bucks they should get all the same stuff that others busted their asses off to get. So we end up with a mental shift from paying for access to paying for rewards. That is the key to this whole change. From there we started having games with no sense of endgame progression. The entire game revolves around dailies dungeons and raids. People got bored. And left. So, developers went full steam ahead with the paying for the reward thing. MMOs are dying from a different cause. Cash Shops are just the comfort measures used to hide a deeper issue.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    I guess EVE's system works because all it actually does is to provide players (those that want to spend the money) with extra ingame currency.

    EVE is perfectly playable without the extra currency, and that currency cannot buy you anything that isn't bought and sold on the market every day.

     

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Nadia

    selling raid spots in mmos like WOW is not much different

     

    especially with virtual "ingame" items available on ebay   (WOW Loot Cards)

    http://www.wowlootcards.com/

     

    Blizzard has been offering an indirect cash shop for years

    some of the ebay items (bought with real cash) can be sold directly on the WOW auction house

    How on earth does selling vanity pets in any way relate to "buying gear" or "buying a raid spot"? Please explain, because I have no idea how pets can even remotly be added to this discussion lol

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by swizards01
    I want a real money cash grab so i can buy a new computer for my hard work in the game. For people that have a job and no time to play the game. They can buy my rare item, i don't care how many times they can kill me on pvp because i got a real money. Those people getting board the game they can sell the item to get there money back. The developer can also earn money daily for those people selling item by collecting tax. You can trade your gold in the market only, not in other character for safe. And no other website can sell the gold because you can't trade it in other character.

    agree

     

    as long as players can freely trade virtual gold

    you will have P2W issues in any mmo regardless of ftp or sub or existing cash shop

     

    to players claiming they will avoid any mmo with a cash shop

    that should apply to any mmo that enables the ability to buy ingame items off ebay too  (looking at you Blizzard)

    http://www.wowlootcards.com/

     

    Again though, I really don't think you mentioning WoW/Blizzard again and again because they offer vanity pets is helping this discussion (Pay to Win)

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Again though, I really don't think you mentioning WoW/Blizzard again and again because they offer vanity pets is helping this discussion (Pay to Win)

    selling WOW loot card "ingame items" for gold is anything but cosmetic

     

    Real money -> Wow loot card item -> trade for ingame gold -> buy WOW gear with gold

     

    example:  trading this mount for gold

    http://www.wowtcgloot.com/amani_dragonhawk.htm

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Again though, I really don't think you mentioning WoW/Blizzard again and again because they offer vanity pets is helping this discussion (Pay to Win)

    selling WOW loot cards for ingame gold is anything but cosmetic

    Its also anything but getting you a raid spot...not sure what you are trying to twist it into. If that much of a leap has to be made to call WoW "Pay to Win", then WoW is in pretty good shape...

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Its also anything but getting you a raid spot...not sure what you are trying to twist it into. If that much of a leap has to be made to call WoW "Pay to Win", then WoW is in pretty good shape...

    they are two different examples

    theres plenty of epic gear on auction house  (altho not raid quality) -- where only ingame gold is needed

     

    you have no issues with how TCG Loot cards are used for gold selling?

  • brickleulbrickleul timisoaraPosts: 16Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    I guess EVE's system works because all it actually does is to provide players (those that want to spend the money) with extra ingame currency.

    EVE is perfectly playable without the extra currency, and that currency cannot buy you anything that isn't bought and sold on the market every day.

     

    Also there is a perfect system , because nothing extra is added to the game , no GM sword or anything else  and also everything you buy in Eve is temporary, nothing last forever . To bad other developers don't want to apply this system too , they want fast and easy money ... hey look today on special offer the mighty sword of retardness + 10, kill everythin in one shot, only $99.99  original price $250 buy today and win the game 

     
     
  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Its also anything but getting you a raid spot...not sure what you are trying to twist it into. If that much of a leap has to be made to call WoW "Pay to Win", then WoW is in pretty good shape...

    they are two different examples

    theres plenty of epic gear on auction house  (altho not raid quality) -- where only ingame gold is needed

     

    you have no issues with how TCG Loot cards are used for gold selling?

    If you are trying to make the leap that a player can essentially buy all of the gear they need off the AH simply by selling TCG mounts, you obviously have very little working knowledge of WoW's in game economy.

    Like I said, if this is the leap that has to be made to call WoW pay to win, its in fantastic shape.

     

    EDIT: Please also stop editing your posts after I quote them ;)

  • spankybusspankybus Orlando, FLPosts: 1,154Member Uncommon

    I really can't care about this. When the outcome of combat in most of these games is directly related to how many hours your ass has sat in that chair, why are people whining about other people blowing money on buying crap that you spend 50 hours earning. A lvl 50 will alway kill a lvl 30.

     

    Selling gear to those who either do not have the time or patience to earn there own gear...hey, judons to the guy making money. Kudos to the guy that just bought a new, virtual toy.

     

    At the end of day...its a game. Unfortunately,  way too many people make it far more than that in their day to day lives.  I think those are the people that it matters too most...like buying gear somehow invalidates their efforts and, indirectly, their lives.

     

    Deep thoughts....

    Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
    www.spankybus.com
    -3d Artist & Compositor
    -Writer
    -Professional Amature

  • kilunkilun Apopka, FLPosts: 709Member Common

    I think as others have said, offer just slightly lower than the best gear available.  If its a raid game, let each new tier that gets introduced with the game, the previous highest is now available for sale.  This lets the guy that can't play 24/7 the ability to still progress have a high level character and join the guild for a raid once in a blue moon still, and keeps the elite, still elite by being able to go out and down the bosses for the new loot.

    I feel both ways about it.  When I was younger, I was like no, no way.  But as the genre and many of us gamers have progressed we have changed in many ways so has the mentality that who cares about spending extra on something in a cash shop.  3rd party sites will continue to exist.  Period.  Why not just do it a legitimate way.  Hell I wouldn't have an issue if companies started having an auto level up service.  Like when a new expansion hits, if the average guy takes 10 days to hit it, and its 10 levels, allow the purchase of 1 level a day.  Some small cap that lets them keep up, many possibilities.

    www.ozumgames.com

  • HeretiqueHeretique Posts: 1,101Member Uncommon

    All I am going to say is what is the POINT of a game when you can just BUY your way to the end. What is the point of playing it then?

    Cash Shops should just be cosmetic IMO.

    Originally posted by salsa41
    are you have problem ?

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by doodphace, you obviously have very little working knowledge of WoW's in game economy.

    i personally know someone who received millions of gold through selling TCG items they bought off ebay

    edit:  screw it, full disclosure - I helped her get the millions with ebay items

     

    for people I dont know - and make claims -- theres this thread

    How I made millions and why I quit WoW.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7006247134

    TCG Mounts were made BoE and I started reselling TCG mounts in game. (Buying from people that redeem the cards for in game mounts and then sell me the in game mounts for gold). Till date I have resold over 650 tcg mounts and 128 of those were swift spectral tigers (I kept a count), over 5 years. Totally I made well over 20 million gold and a LOT of people happy.

  • MondoA2JMondoA2J Henderson, NVPosts: 258Member

    "Our Master Debaters are these fine two specimens:"

    I am so immature. I loled.

    Anywho....

    Far as debate goes, Chris won. Totally.

    I see what your point was Bill but he nailed it down every time.

    To be honest the two arguments come from two very different places though.

    I felt the stance Bill took was very much a purists and honoring the hard work that was put into these games and over all more demanding from the developers. Which I honestly believe is the right stance to take on things. We should strive to make our games better not accept the current crappy reality of things.

    Which brings me to Chris.

    Chris won mostly cause he accepts the reality of the situation. People whine, moan. In the end though? These items are still being sold. Why? Cause someone is buying them. Not just someone, ALOT of people are buying them. In the end, yes I wouldn't mind skipping the kill ten rats quest because I have done it so MANY times. The only issue that comes into buying gear is when it enters a PVP scenario. Otherwise PvE can't really complain.

    In the end. I feel gear should be removed as a concept from MMO's. Not saying there isn't epic loot but more of the sense that it isn't the main form of character progression. That there should be some other way to measures ones investment into his/her game.

    How this is accomplished is for developers to figure out.

    You can't appeal to everyone. Think this is where developers are tripping on things.

    MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!

  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon

    In general I'm against cash shops selling gear and I was very leery of Rift's decision to sell gear in the store for credits. But I will say that they kept their word about not selling the top tiers of gear - just good enough to get you started on the upgrade treadmill.

  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by doodphace, you obviously have very little working knowledge of WoW's in game economy.

    i personally know someone who received millions of gold through selling TCG items they bought off ebay

     

    for people I dont know - and make claims -- theres this thread

    How I made millions and why I quit WoW.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7006247134

    What I said was, if you are trying to make the leap that this in turn makes WoW a Pay to Win game, you obviously have very little working knowledge of WoW's in game economy .That includes how many BoE items are available per class/spec, how much they are worth, how much cash flow the avg player generates in game etc.. When I say in game economy, I actually mean in game economy. I can find you prob 50 extreem examples (out of the 8+ million players who play) as well....you are not proving anything other than extreem scenerios exist in the world....for which I would agree

    Like I said, if that is the leap you have to make to claim WoW is pay to win, then WoW is in excellent shape.

    Now back on topic..

    Games should not be selling endgame gear in their cash shops, no matter what.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by doodphace

    Like I said, if that is the leap you have to make to claim WoW is pay to win, then WoW is in excellent shape.

    my friend used her "ebay" gold to buy raid spots

    seems like you have no issues with gold sellers

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