Why? They turn the games into Lobby games with vast and totally vacant worlds. You never need to explore the world, hell, in WoW last go around I couldn't find my way from the rez point to the Dungeon entrance because I had never even been in that zone before. Just Hub City -> Dungeon -> Hub City, with NO travel in between.
This poll is an example of why you should never include "other" as an option. I mean, people can add their 2 cents in the comments anyhow. I voted Quest Hubs, btw
Regarding trinity, I wonder if that's how folks view EQ. Because I would disagree. Yes, a group *can* function with tank, healer, dps, but it can't do much. Any of the truly rewarding EQ camps required a couple of the following:
1. pullers 2. crowd control (lol I forgot what cc meant and had to google it) 3. evac 4. buffers and/or debuffers (lest you hear that *crunch* sound)
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Quest hubs are fine for me if it's kill quests like missives in Vanguard. I don't enjoy the ones in WoW or FFXIV:ARR, I just want to play the game instead of run back and forth all the time.
Raids, Trinity and Faction doesn't seem like it means Themepark to me, they could be in a sandbox too, why not.
Remove Quest hubs and make a superior dynamic events mechanic (note i said superior, a much immproved version of what GW2 did), that dont recycle as a story / character progression system and have permanent outcomes.
Change the Raiding system so it doesnt become the main focus of end game so the game doesnt become a boring grinding thread mill through raids.
I would improve the non-trinity system of GW2 to make it more strategic and team oriented without forcing the trinity roles. Its more fun to play the game, not the UI and the aggro minigame. Have all the roles in the game (tank, dps, healser) but dont make them mandatory for group content. Period. Flexibility is more fun.
Reputation grind is nonsense. If the reputation rewards were to stay in place then greatly decrease the amount of rep needed for rewards but instead make any content that grants reputation more difficult and challenging so its actually meaningful to earn reputation towards a faction, and also better rewards along with the reputation gain... for your troubles.
Why? They turn the games into Lobby games with vast and totally vacant worlds. You never need to explore the world, hell, in WoW last go around I couldn't find my way from the rez point to the Dungeon entrance because I had never even been in that zone before. Just Hub City -> Dungeon -> Hub City, with NO travel in between.
So so so true.
I've said it before. Many people today don't need a game with a universe. They need some kind of lobby with the usual accommodations such as bank and crafting stations, and portals to dungeons/raids. Because that's all they care about. And the path WoW took is actually encouraging this play style.
I voted for quest hubs. Not because I hate them, but because I kind of like every other feature you listed. Don't get me wrong I love a good sandbox. SWG was my favorite MMO. But even the best sandbox needs some theme-park content.
Raiding: I personally enjoy raiding. It's a challenge. The old NES gamer in me likes to come up against the most difficult content the computer can throw at me. More than any other aspect of the MMO genre, I get the most satisfaction out of completing a difficult raid or downing a particularly nasty boss.
Faction Grind: Grinding is an important mechanic in any MMO. There have to be time sinks. Faction grinding is one of them. Sure it can probably be improved upon, but this one doesn't really bother me.
Quest Hubs: Of the aspects you listed I suppose I like this the least. This makes the world feel very linear. Run to point A complete 5 quests. Now run to point B and complete 5 additional quests that are incredibly similar to the previous 5. I think questing should still be included in these games, but it needs to be implemented in a more dynamic way. GW2 had some fun innovations in this aspect.
The Holy Trinity: I am like a religious zealot when it comes to the Trinity. The Holy Trinity should not be touched. There is nothing wrong with adding to the Trinity by including additional roles like "support" and "control." However TANK, DPS, and HEALS are the very basis of RPG combat. They are essential. I have never played an MMO that has successfully removed this fundamental aspect. Guild Wars 2 was the most recent to try and they failed miserably. Melee combat is virtually impossible in large-scale PvP because of the lack of direct healing. Dungeons are a huge cluster f**k because of no tanking. If you want to get rid of the Trinity then the game has to be a shooter. I'll play an MMO shooter. I love APB. But you can't have a traditional MMO "RPG" without the trinity.
You can include welfare badge gear (and the "must grind in pugs requirement" scenario that creates) under the same heading. And reputation grinds of all varieties, under the same principle.
Since we're getting rid of welfare, let's get rid of income support for people who are terrible at earning mmo wealth (dailies), while we're at it. What a coincidence, another grind cycle model...
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'm not a fan of quest hubs, but it feels like a breadcrumb trail game...... BUT.. The end game raid thing is more detrimental then quest hubs.. We could easily turn quest hubs into bounty reward hubs, but this raid thing seems to be the main reason why leveling has become an annoying joke to most.. People are so focused on desert, they forgot to enjoy the other courses of dinner.. Remove the gear grind raid grind at end game, maybe we can go back to slower progression games.. So.. I voted to remove raids.. At least it their current common form (Rift, WoW and TOR)
Trinity isnt a themepark feature, EQ1 had a "trinity" before theme parks (although EQ1's trinity was tank/heal/crowd control, dps was just assumed)
The one thing I would want removed from the current WoW/Rift style of theme park is boring, ilevel gear design tied to strict content 'tiers' that dont even balance risk vs reward, just whats new.
I love how the vocal minority here think that they speak for everyone. The very same features you all claim to hate the silent majority love. So you can whine and complaim and beg for these features to be removed but they will stay in the games because the Devs will always cater to the majority. Also if you want features to be added or removed you need to post on the official forums for the games you want to change. The odds of a MMO Developer coming here to read these posts are worse than you getting 6 Royal Straight Flushes in a row.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Oh man...but all the choices suck so bad! What to choose?
I picked "other" and put down "loot." I can deal with the other choices if loot wasn't the end-all and be-all in the themeparks.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Quest hubs are best part of gaming. Mainly those that does not end at 1st stage (like "hearts" in Gw2, which I like a lot otherwise). But even more I love class specific questing in Swtor not to mention voiced questing. I simply can not enjoy at all any questing that is not voiced after enjoyed for so much Swtor.
I hate quest hubs *only* because of how they affect players on the server. If quest hub advancement is the very best advancement option (as it was in Vanguard), this creates a server of people who don't explore, interact, or treasure-hunt; but instead run mindlessly from point A to B to C, staring at their quest compass and quest-journal 99% of the time.
Originally posted by daltanious Quest hubs are best part of gaming. Mainly those that does not end at 1st stage (like "hearts" in Gw2, which I like a lot otherwise). But even more I love class specific questing in Swtor not to mention voiced questing. I simply can not enjoy at all any questing that is not voiced after enjoyed for so much Swtor.
Oh my, you are spoiled my dear friend. Enjoy it while you can, but I wouldn't expect it in future games. Most people don't see voice acting as key gameplay value, but SWTOR squandered huge sums of money on it. It was a collossal failure that resulted in a lot of people losing their job.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Comments
Dungeon Finder with Teleport to mechanics.
Why? They turn the games into Lobby games with vast and totally vacant worlds. You never need to explore the world, hell, in WoW last go around I couldn't find my way from the rez point to the Dungeon entrance because I had never even been in that zone before. Just Hub City -> Dungeon -> Hub City, with NO travel in between.
This poll is an example of why you should never include "other" as an option. I mean, people can add their 2 cents in the comments anyhow. I voted Quest Hubs, btw
Regarding trinity, I wonder if that's how folks view EQ. Because I would disagree. Yes, a group *can* function with tank, healer, dps, but it can't do much. Any of the truly rewarding EQ camps required a couple of the following:
1. pullers
2. crowd control (lol I forgot what cc meant and had to google it)
3. evac
4. buffers and/or debuffers (lest you hear that *crunch* sound)
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Quest hubs are fine for me if it's kill quests like missives in Vanguard. I don't enjoy the ones in WoW or FFXIV:ARR, I just want to play the game instead of run back and forth all the time.
Raids, Trinity and Faction doesn't seem like it means Themepark to me, they could be in a sandbox too, why not.
i would change all the options from the poll.
Remove Quest hubs and make a superior dynamic events mechanic (note i said superior, a much immproved version of what GW2 did), that dont recycle as a story / character progression system and have permanent outcomes.
Change the Raiding system so it doesnt become the main focus of end game so the game doesnt become a boring grinding thread mill through raids.
I would improve the non-trinity system of GW2 to make it more strategic and team oriented without forcing the trinity roles. Its more fun to play the game, not the UI and the aggro minigame. Have all the roles in the game (tank, dps, healser) but dont make them mandatory for group content. Period. Flexibility is more fun.
Reputation grind is nonsense. If the reputation rewards were to stay in place then greatly decrease the amount of rep needed for rewards but instead make any content that grants reputation more difficult and challenging so its actually meaningful to earn reputation towards a faction, and also better rewards along with the reputation gain... for your troubles.
Ahh yeh static enemies/mobs. Ryzom did a great job with their roaming herds and predator systems with their mobs. Pretty dynamic by most standards.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
So so so true.
I've said it before. Many people today don't need a game with a universe. They need some kind of lobby with the usual accommodations such as bank and crafting stations, and portals to dungeons/raids. Because that's all they care about. And the path WoW took is actually encouraging this play style.
I voted for quest hubs. Not because I hate them, but because I kind of like every other feature you listed. Don't get me wrong I love a good sandbox. SWG was my favorite MMO. But even the best sandbox needs some theme-park content.
Raiding: I personally enjoy raiding. It's a challenge. The old NES gamer in me likes to come up against the most difficult content the computer can throw at me. More than any other aspect of the MMO genre, I get the most satisfaction out of completing a difficult raid or downing a particularly nasty boss.
Faction Grind: Grinding is an important mechanic in any MMO. There have to be time sinks. Faction grinding is one of them. Sure it can probably be improved upon, but this one doesn't really bother me.
Quest Hubs: Of the aspects you listed I suppose I like this the least. This makes the world feel very linear. Run to point A complete 5 quests. Now run to point B and complete 5 additional quests that are incredibly similar to the previous 5. I think questing should still be included in these games, but it needs to be implemented in a more dynamic way. GW2 had some fun innovations in this aspect.
The Holy Trinity: I am like a religious zealot when it comes to the Trinity. The Holy Trinity should not be touched. There is nothing wrong with adding to the Trinity by including additional roles like "support" and "control." However TANK, DPS, and HEALS are the very basis of RPG combat. They are essential. I have never played an MMO that has successfully removed this fundamental aspect. Guild Wars 2 was the most recent to try and they failed miserably. Melee combat is virtually impossible in large-scale PvP because of the lack of direct healing. Dungeons are a huge cluster f**k because of no tanking. If you want to get rid of the Trinity then the game has to be a shooter. I'll play an MMO shooter. I love APB. But you can't have a traditional MMO "RPG" without the trinity.
Other: "consolation prize" rewards.
You can include welfare badge gear (and the "must grind in pugs requirement" scenario that creates) under the same heading. And reputation grinds of all varieties, under the same principle.
Since we're getting rid of welfare, let's get rid of income support for people who are terrible at earning mmo wealth (dailies), while we're at it. What a coincidence, another grind cycle model...
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Other.
Finder tools,
#1 feature to kill all social aspects in MMO.
What's a finder tool Deniter. Like a dungeon finder that automates grouping?
Trinity isnt a themepark feature, EQ1 had a "trinity" before theme parks (although EQ1's trinity was tank/heal/crowd control, dps was just assumed)
The one thing I would want removed from the current WoW/Rift style of theme park is boring, ilevel gear design tied to strict content 'tiers' that dont even balance risk vs reward, just whats new.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
None.
One mechanics does not make or break a game. It is all about implementation, polish and details.
Yes. That's what i meant. Call it dungeon finder, raid finder, duty finder, etc. if you like, but the same thing nonetheless.
So? It makes the game more fun for me (and many, hence it is popular).
I won't play a MMO without a LFD tool.
Oh man...but all the choices suck so bad! What to choose?
I picked "other" and put down "loot." I can deal with the other choices if loot wasn't the end-all and be-all in the themeparks.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I hate quest hubs *only* because of how they affect players on the server. If quest hub advancement is the very best advancement option (as it was in Vanguard), this creates a server of people who don't explore, interact, or treasure-hunt; but instead run mindlessly from point A to B to C, staring at their quest compass and quest-journal 99% of the time.
Oh my, you are spoiled my dear friend. Enjoy it while you can, but I wouldn't expect it in future games. Most people don't see voice acting as key gameplay value, but SWTOR squandered huge sums of money on it. It was a collossal failure that resulted in a lot of people losing their job.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
What would you replace the item with? My gut instinct is to remove quest hubs, but not if it's replaced with mob grinds.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.