I find this article from Guthrie at Massively really interesting. He actually saw the game, and is basically telling us EQN will be very different from EQ1 and EQ2 and will probably attract a new playerbase instead of cannibalizing the older games. This is significant because he's saying he can't really spoil it, but is giving us hints by repeating stuff that was said by SOE devs in the past.
| "What EQN is not
Although it's third in line in the EQ franchise, EverQuest Next is not a sequel. Both Smedley and Georgeson have spoken on multiple occasions about how the EQN versions that were originally turning out more like EQ 2.5 or EQ III were scrapped. Even the title itself, EverQuest Next, draws focus away from the game's being just a rehash of its predecessors. In the aforementioned PAX East interview, Georgeson teased us with the line that EverQuest Next is "an MMO you've never played before" -- that it's "a completely different critter."
In that light, will this next version sound the death knell for EQ and EQII? Even before EQN's big shreenshot-blowing-up reveal at the convention, Georgeson addressed this concern by assuring that "EQN is not being designed to replace those games." And when I talked with him at SOE Live 2012, he reaffirmed that stance, pointing out that the newest sibling to the franchise is such a different game and fans are so loyal to their respective games that there is little worry of a mass migration. That certainly makes sense: If you've been a player of EverQuest for the almost 15 years or EverQuest II for nearly nine, would you seriously just drop everything and switch? It's not as likely. Besides, it stands to reason that SOE wouldn't want to cannibalize its other games for customers and instead will look at reaching out and grabbing new ones.
And finally, what it's not is here yet! It's going to be a long two weeks until we can all hear and see what's coming. So until then, let's let your speculations fly!" Source: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/20/tattered-notebook-speculations-last-stand-for-everquest-next/ |
So basically from a business standpoint they're aiming for a new share of the market as opposed to just migrating their existing playerbase to a new game.
In what ways do you see this appealing to a whole other group of players and not digging into the populations of EQ1 and EQ2?
For me, it's making the game a TRUE sandbox with as few restrictions on play as possible. It won't appeal as much to the folks who prefer something more scripted and predictable because other players will have so much control over the game.
Bidwood
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Well, in 2 weeks we'll get to see for ourselves exactly what type of market they are trying to attract.
Even though there is a reasonable assumption the dedicated, established communities that have remained with EQ and EQ2 will remain, there is a very large population of old EQ and EQ2 players that simply grew tired and moved on to other games. If EQN is attractive enough, I see this population jumping into this newest version of Norrath. I count myself as part of that group.
One can assume that there is synergy, that the communities of MMO players are sick of their game, that they have become dated and that they want to move on into a "sandbox" and that EQNext is that game.
Either way I think SOE wins. They get a new game with new customers or they get a new game with old customers.
If EQ and EQ2 players want a themepark there are already 3 with SOE EQ, EQ2 and Vanguard. When you stick with a game for 15 years that has horrible graphics by today's standards and with the advent of MINECRAFT being so popular, why bother making a shiny NEW Everquest Themepark? Make something new get new customers.
The only risk is tremendous backlash if it comes out and EQ fans are really disappointed. But if you are going for a new market anyway perhaps it doenst matter to them, go back to EQ or EQ2 or Vanguard and this new game will populate itself.
Well... considering that EQ pretty much has the people with a hardon for what is called "PVE sandbox" and EQ 2 has the people with a mind for themepark grind... if they're going for new people... there's only really one way they can go for a completely untapped market...
I'm convinced world PVP will be a pillar of EQN.
The reason I brought up the Massively article is to show that SOE doesn't need the franchise's fanbase. They can really afford to do things differently to grab a different share of the market.
Now it's not just the devs who said that months ago, but a reviewer that actually saw the game choosing to highlight the fact that this will be different and may not be the existing fanbase's cup of tea.
Can we avoid using the term "pillar" ? it sounds like something important and in an MMO the sum of its parts is most important not individual components (PVP, PVE, crafting, exploration, capacity to adventure, to have emergent gameplay experiences, if you make all these your game's pillars, which they all should be in an ideal world because lack of any of them is extremely bad for a game's health, then in truth you do not have pillars, you have a balanced game).
I think, given EQ's history, it's a given that there will be one or two dedicated PvP servers to cater to that community.
But, to the trend this thread is leaning towards, haven't you talked about this many times before? Not only in other threads, but in threads you've created? I think that old drum is a bit tired. Maybe rest it beside that dead horse that keeps getting kicked.
Last dude I knew that said "pillar" all the time was Steve Spagnuolo when he was the head coach of the St. Louis Rams through 2009 to 2012. We see how well that turned out.
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Well, just to point it out, they also said it would be familiar to EQ fans, so different/familiar, we can pick sentences here and there, apply meaning and such, but we will not know, until they show us.
The people leaving EQ/EQ2, can also just be from the standpoint that people are invested in those games, you don't want to just pick up and move on from something if you have been playing it 15/9 years...
So I am not reading much into this 'different' thing myself, not till I see it. Different would be some type of RvR, non-instanced housing, just about anything.
I am pretty speculated out, I just want it to come, to see, and to say I hate it or it looks interesting. I am ready for both.
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
I agree, this OP and others continue to beat that old drum, i'm going to enjoy that drum getting broken.
EQN will have PVP, anyone would be dumb not to think so considering both EQ&EQ2 have it. What makes me laugh is people really thinking that PVP is going to be the main focus of EQN, like PVE will now take a back seat.
And as for this "sandbox" hype, well i have a strong feeling that Smeds version of a sandbox is more akin to a sandpark. I don't care how many awards massively or this site have given the game, these are the same people who gave swtor glowing reports.
@dihoru - the term "pillar" is important because Georgeson used it in an interview to talk about the things the dev team needed to get right in order to create the "holy grail" MMO.
Usually a building has multiple pillars, but the idea is that they are all an important part of the design and if you take one out then you compromise the integrity of the structure. I believe PVP has to be a pillar, otherwise you end up with 20 per cent PVP servers that are an afterthought. And they don't work because the game isn't designed to make them work.
@Telondariel - This thread isn't about PVP. It's about EQN being different from EQ1 and EQ2. Dihoru brought up PVP and I commented because it's a topic I care about. I'm not going to stop doing that.
I hear you, but Massively saw the game and wrote the article I referred to in the first post. Half of the article is about the fact that this will be a very different game.
Yup, it will be very different.
And it's only going to have PVP for the people who want it. It's not going to be forced on the entire player base.
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Okay. So in what other ways do you see it appealing to a new market instead of their existing fanbase? Let's move the discussion there.
Ah but that's not what you really want is it, you won't be happy with separate pvp servers because that means the game is not built around PVP.
No one has a problem with the game having PVP on separate servers, right?
Please don't give me one of your "deal with it" lines
Georgeson mentioned that this game will be very different from EQ1/EQ2. Let me see if I can find the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt-MEgLXKXs&list=PLSCa57dkQP45BjjPLXtBf2_cbCjCFmyTS&feature=player_detailpage#t=277s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt-MEgLXKXs&list=PLSCa57dkQP45BjjPLXtBf2_cbCjCFmyTS&feature=player_detailpage#t=499s
I'm a PVPer, but I also enjoy PVE. Nothing stops me from enjoying a good Legend of Zelda or TES game. I also enjoy all sorts of PVP games (FPS, RTS, MMO, etc)
But there are many games that have shown you can make a great, professional and well thought out pvp game without sacrificing PVE quality. GW2 is a great example.
I know the EQN dev team and SOE can produce a great flagship title that will appeal to both PVEers and PVPers, and will be doing so without a doubt. If your happiness in EQN is going to rely on having EQN as a completely PVP experience, or a PVE mixed PVP experience for the entire player base, don't bother tuning into the SOE livestreams.
Start looking elsewhere for something to look forward.
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Thanks for this!
I typed out the part that really stood out to me:
"When we started working on EQN, before I was involved in it, they were essentially honing the MMO model. The MMO model that we all know and love, that we played and played and played. And we realized after a year or so of development that that kind of direction really wasn't going to hit it out of the park - wasn't going to be something that people really wanted to talk about and was going to make people super excited. It was going to be another MMO.
So we realized that we couldn't keep going down that road. So what we did was we threw it all away, and that was about a year and a little bit ago, and at that point we brought in different talent that was, I don't know, original thinkers I guess.
We sat down and we made big old lists of what we loved about MMOs, what we hated about MMOs, and then this shorter list that was all the holy grails that we always wanted to conquor.
And we kind of tore down everything about the MMOs, and we picked and picked and picked at it until we found pillars that we thought were something that people would kind of lose their mind about. That they would look at it and they would go 'They're doing what?!?!' And then they'd want to participate in it."
"I AM A PVPER!...but if I see PVP and PVE as equal in a MMO my face starts shitting." this is your post in a nutshell. You aren't a PVPer, at best you're someone who enjoys MOBAs, multiplayer combat simulators, etc, but the fact you want your PVE separate from your PVP tells me enough to know which type of "pvper" you class as.
If SOE is truly trying to blanket the market with their EQ series of games then EQN will be a sandbox or sandpark type game with an equal place for its PVPers and PVEers...on a single megaserver with as little instancing as possible. In this case I only have to say the following:
While I don't doubt this possibility, especially based on some tweets by Smed, all I can really say is "great, another PvP focused sandbox game...."
Way to fail at reading comprehension.
I like my PVE / PVP mixed because for me it makes for a more realistic, challenging and entertaining experience for me. I run with a professional crew and we enjoy killing people. I especially enjoy battling over open world contested raid bosses and resoures.
But EQN will not force this on everyone. It will offer a PVE only experience for those who want it.
Nice try though, kid.
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Right. There has been a lot of skepticism here with people claiming the devs are trolling for hype or it could mean anything, etc. - that we haven't seen the game and won't know until the game is revealed. But Massively has seen the game, which is why I'm bringing it up. We have a third party confirming that this is very different from EQ1 and EQ2, and that SOE is probably going for a different market.
If your great example of a PVE/PVP game is GW2 (which tries to copy what made DAoC good in some people's eyes, not mine though) then I wouldn't talk dumpling. The only good example of a good (not great) mix of PVE and PVP is EVE-Online, there are a few other games which try but they're not yet mature enough to mention.
This is troubling in a way, because you would think that if you liked the Other EQ games then you would naturally want to move to the new and improved product. I hope he was just trying to be diplomatic here, because if EQNext is not an improvement and superior to the previous games, it's a waste of time.
Another company tried this with a big IP, they put out a successor that was terrible compared to the original game. It lost 75% of its pop in the first few months and is generally considered to be a failure. What a stupid idea, lets make a new game and make it inferior to its predecessor, that way players have an immediate comparison to see how bad the fucking thing is.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011