"Instance vs. Open" Poll

TyranusPrime · July 2013

Greetings and Salutations all.. Thought I'd throw this poll question out there to see what the general opinion was in the current MMO gamer population.. With all the talk of sandbox vs. themepark.. instances vs. open world.. and like or hate of dungeon finders.. My question is a (not so) simple one..

Edit: By a few responses, I think the question itself might have been misunderstood or poorly worded on my part.. A seamless or open world encompasses the main adventuring area in the scenario presented.. What I am specifically referring to are the dungeons in games..

Example: Open world dungeons are integrated into the seamless world and are therefore open to anyone who comes along.. An instanced dungeon is a portal in the open world that leads to a private area that only a soloer/group/ or raid can enter.. Any others go into their own version of the instance.. (example: WoW)

Betaguy · July 2013

I prefer variety thus it should have both.... I voted other for this.

Quizzical · July 2013

Here we go again. The proper question isn't whether an MMORPG should be instanced, but how. To not use any sort of instancing whatsoever would require such wildly inefficient programming techniques that the game would surely be vaporware.

moosecatlol · July 2013

Instanced if I'm looking for challenge in PvE, just for the simple fact that there is no technically challenging fight that exists in an open world environment.

Instancing allows for a better freedom for creation and the ability to tailor fights for that perfect dungeon experience.

As far as dungeon finders are concerned, I would be interested to see them implemented into the game world in a sensible fashion as to not break immersion. I'm sure it could be done if one were to put enough thought into it. Essentially the opposite of how waypoints in Guild Wars 2 are handled.

Also Quizzical is right, an uninstanced MMO simply doesn't exist, it's simply how you represent loading that depicts the quality of your instancing. For clarification I was stating that I prefer well-tailored and structured boss fights, rather than mindless zerging. As I'm assuming that was what the OP was looking for.

Krimzin · July 2013

One of the main reasons I like the open world aspect is that it makes the game more social. When you go into a dungeon and its instances, it becomes very closed feeling.
I remember Karnor in EQ1 and it was a challenging dungeon, even when there were other people there.. the trains were such a pain in the ass, but It was fun. The trains added a level of difficulty not found in instanced dungeons.

TyranusPrime · July 2013

The OP realizes exactly what he is asking..

Join date and post numbers aside, I have been in the MMO genre since its inception.. I created this poll in its most general form, representing the usual dungeon/mission types currently (or previously) used in MMOs.. I also made sure to add the "other" option to include those who favored the inclusion of both types or something new entirely..

I appreciate all the responses so far, as it is very enlightening..

goozmania · July 2013

While I have fond memories of EQ and meeting people in dungeons... Instances were created to fix problems... Going back to the original problems instances fixed is not the answer. EQ2's system is probably the best, which is a combination of both.

anemo · July 2013

Whatever it takes for the developers to make their game fun.

Shadowguy64 · July 2013

Dungeons/Raids - Instanced

Everything else - Open

I suppose if the game had "personal story" type missions then those would be instanced too.

I don't see how having open world raids makes the game "more social". Isn't seeing the other raid members you are with social enough? While you are busy trying to defeat the big bad guy, why is seeing other people not included in your group important? Shouldn't you be focusing on the task at hand? Or do you expect to be carried by the rest of the raid while you chit-chat with every passerby?

KBishop · July 2013

Both. Having an integration of both open world and instances allows for more exploration as well as less strain on servers, less ridiculously sized zones, less of that 'lobby' feel, and more variation in zones.

Quirhid · July 2013

I bet a solution to enable seamless instancing and clever use of phasing would be worth something.

Xthos · July 2013

I prefer worlds be more like old EQ, and Vanguard, not like TOR.

Everything being instanced makes me feel like I am playing a lobby game, not a real mmo.

DavisFlight · July 2013

Originally posted by goozmania
While I have fond memories of EQ and meeting people in dungeons... Instances were created to fix problems... Going back to the original problems instances fixed is not the answer. EQ2's system is probably the best, which is a combination of both.

Ooor, we could fix the problem with good game design, like DAoC did, rather than putting in instances out of ineptitude.

ste2000 · July 2013

I actually prefer instanced Dungeons but a seamless world.

I hate instanced zones though.

madazz · July 2013

Originally posted by Quizzical
Here we go again. The proper question isn't whether an MMORPG should be instanced, but how. To not use any sort of instancing whatsoever would require such wildly inefficient programming techniques that the game would surely be vaporware.

Funny how there are games without any instancing and they work fine....

Rydeson · July 2013

Open World all the way.. Instance was a mechanic that should of never made it's way into MMORPG's.. As for the open world, I like both a little camping and randomness.. It keeps you alert

Quirhid · July 2013

nvm

Loktofeit · July 2013

Originally posted by Quizzical
Here we go again. The proper question isn't whether an MMORPG should be instanced, but how. To not use any sort of instancing whatsoever would require such wildly inefficient programming techniques that the game would surely be vaporware.

Quizzical hits on the most important and most overlooked part. It all depends on the content and the type of experience that the devs are trying to deliver. While I enjoy open dungeons like AC, L2 and UO, it's clear that such dungeons aren't conducive to any type of personalized or scripted content without finding yet another work around (phasing is one) to try to compensate for the shortcomings of the public environment.

azzamasin · July 2013

Originally posted by Quizzical
Here we go again. The proper question isn't whether an MMORPG should be instanced, but how. To not use any sort of instancing whatsoever would require such wildly inefficient programming techniques that the game would surely be vaporware.

And yet every old school MMO did I without fail.

Unless you are confusing instancing with zoning....which is quite possibly since so many here confuse definitions. For the record, an instance is a place where only you or your friends can enter, and when you leave the instanced is closed never to appear. A zone is an area that is always active and people can enter freely at their discretion and will remain persistent.

WoW dungeons are instanced. GW2's WvW areas are zoned (their small so easy to confuse but their zones nonetheless).

And its very easy to do everything within a zoned world but the game still remains open.

DavisFlight · July 2013

Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Quizzical
Here we go again. The proper question isn't whether an MMORPG should be instanced, but how. To not use any sort of instancing whatsoever would require such wildly inefficient programming techniques that the game would surely be vaporware.

And yet every old school MMO did I without fail.

And Darkfall did it, with no loading screens, AND real time FPS combat on a massive scale.

Nilden · July 2013

Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by goozmania
While I have fond memories of EQ and meeting people in dungeons... Instances were created to fix problems... Going back to the original problems instances fixed is not the answer. EQ2's system is probably the best, which is a combination of both.

Ooor, we could fix the problem with good game design, like DAoC did, rather than putting in instances out of ineptitude.

So what problems did instances fix?

Overcrowding
Content on Demand
Griefers

This would just be my main list.

I think instancing dungeons is only ONE solution. A rather lazy solution that says let's just copy the same dungeon as many times as needed. You could also have MANY open world dungeons.

For Content on Demand you could also provide ANOTHER solution. Like mission terminals in Star Wars Galaxies that would give you missions in the open world. How about a job board.

As far as griefers go I think while it's nice not to have anyone mess up your dungeon run it also kills the reason for even playing the game. When you end up doing a instance dungeon run and not one person speaks, it could have been 4 bots playing. You may solve one problem but create another. There is a better solution to the problems instances fix. The reason you might not see a better solution is because it's cheap and easy to copy something infinity.

I'm open to other possibilities as well. What do you think?

DavisFlight · July 2013

Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by goozmania
While I have fond memories of EQ and meeting people in dungeons... Instances were created to fix problems... Going back to the original problems instances fixed is not the answer. EQ2's system is probably the best, which is a combination of both.

Ooor, we could fix the problem with good game design, like DAoC did, rather than putting in instances out of ineptitude.

As far as griefers go I think while it's nice not to have anyone mess up your dungeon run it also kills the reason for even playing the game.

Why do people keep saying griefers are a thing? If they were such a problem that instancing was a legit solution... wouldn't they exist in the overworld too? Shouldn't devs just instance every part of the gameworld so you never have to interact with other people?

I encountered one griefer in 8 years I DAoC. I reported him and never saw him again.

NagelRitter · July 2013

I generally hate instances and I prefer games designed around not having them.

Nilden · July 2013

Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by goozmania
While I have fond memories of EQ and meeting people in dungeons... Instances were created to fix problems... Going back to the original problems instances fixed is not the answer. EQ2's system is probably the best, which is a combination of both.

Ooor, we could fix the problem with good game design, like DAoC did, rather than putting in instances out of ineptitude.

As far as griefers go I think while it's nice not to have anyone mess up your dungeon run it also kills the reason for even playing the game.

Why do people keep saying griefers are a thing? If they were such a problem that instancing was a legit solution... wouldn't they exist in the overworld too? Shouldn't devs just instance every part of the gameworld so you never have to interact with other people?

I encountered one griefer in 8 years I DAoC. I reported him and never saw him again.

Well then you missed out on entire Everquest raids griefing each other and WoW same faction and cross faction griefing just as some examples. Instances take away any chance of outside greifers just because you only saw one guy in 8 years of DAOC doesn't mean other people didn't put up with them all the time.

Axehilt · July 2013

Instanced content is just better. It's higher quality due to its nature.

It's the distinct game mechanics which make encounters interesting in games.

With instancing, the game's development team is focused on creating new interesting mechanics. That's all they do.

With open world, the dev team must spend additional effort making those mechanics dynamically self-adjust to the number of players. Intricate game mechanics would tend to require more effort to make dynamic. This creates drag. Instead of a dev team moving full speed with 100% of effort put into making new game mechanics, they must spend a non-trivial amount of time adapting those mechanics.

Either that or no dynamic is applied and a fight which is interesting with a 6-man party becomes completely trivial when another 6 players show up -- which is really boring.

thexrated · July 2013

I would like to see a mix. I know that open world dungeon can be quite nice, as I have done them in few games. I also know that some content can be made more challenging for a group by having it in an instanced environment. I also like to have some of the personal story content, or small group story content, in a phased or instanced environment (if the story telling requires it).

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