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Originally posted by Vorthanion That they'll jump on the action combat bandwagon and add insult to injury by forcing PC gamers to use console style controls and interface.
This. The action combat stuff is really no fun for me. I don't have the energy to constantly move my avatar from here to there twitching around every time I play. I hope it to be something similar to the sandbox style of Darkfall but without their combat system.
There are so many fantastic elements lost from the games of old. Bring those elements back minus the twitch and I'll be a happy camper.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by azzamasin I have only 2 worries: It will be a FFA PvP game that allows griefers and gankers to guide the interaction. I detest PvP greatly and I am looking for the ultimate virtual world dedicated to PvE and community. FFA PvP is divisive and ruins immersion.
Wait, how does PvP ruin immersion? Lack of PvP would seem to ruin immersion. "Why can't I just stab that guy and suffer the consequences?" It can ruin your day, but not your immersion.
Because irrational arguments are irrational. PvP doesn't kill a game, or immersion, any more than the ground killed humanity's early attempts at flight.
In any case, to address the topic:
My worry is the developers or management of EQN are, like so many people, full of ideas and lacking in good systems design capabilities and creativity. I worry that like within this community, the voices crying out for the features we have seen in nearly every game to date and exclaiming things like "the vast majority of us want X so you MUST have X" nearly drown out those who realize the popularity of an idea is not proof that the idea is wise, optimal, or even sane.
In short, I worry the developers will cave to popular demand and we'll see yet another rehash of everything we already have available to us.
Originally posted by arieste Originally posted by coretex666 Interesting. I come from Earth where we have OW FFA PvP, so that not having an OW FFA PvP actually ruins immersion for me.
I come from same Earth, and on mine, the instances of OW FFA PvP actually ocurring are extremely rare and most times result in the participants being banned from playing for several years. So a system that totally disallows FFA PvP actually results in a world closer to that Earth than a system that leads to constant OW FFA PvP. Of course the IDEAL system would be one where you CAN kill anyone, anywhere, but with a high chance of being banned from the game for 10 years. And i mean, "ideal" in terms of creating immersion, I am not sure how much fun it would be for anyone involved.
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Wait, how does PvP ruin immersion? Lack of PvP would seem to ruin immersion. "Why can't I just stab that guy and suffer the consequences?"
Because - as per my point above - most games lack the RL-equivalent of "suffering the consequences". Which in turn leads to a disproprtionate amount of a behaviour that is otherwise intolerable.
I respect what you say and consider it highly relevant.
However, it still does not justify his claim that FFA PvP ruins immersion.
You say it is rare on Earth. We could argue about that considering wars, genocides, etc etc, but for the sake of the discussion, lets agree it is rare as you most likely meant that you simply do not witness murders or violent attacks on the streets very often.
You correctly state that it is caused by existence of pretty high risk of losing freedom for many years or even "permadeath" in certain countries.
I agree that being banned from the game for 10 years would be a fun killer. However, the only aspect that would require to be shifted from the paradigm on Earth, is the punishment itself.
If you make the punishment to be based on the fact that some sort of police represented by players who select such profession will hunt you and in case they catch you, they take away all items you carry, it might be strong enough to actually substitute the real world "X years in prison" punishment without decreasing its effectiveness. In case it would be too weak, you may spice it up a little bit more.
The point is that in such scenario, the virtual world would hardly look like Quake III arena and may be closer to the system on Earth than the one where PvP is completely disallowed...not forbidden, but disallowed. Why cant I hit that person that stands 3 meters from me shouting that I am a ****. I dont know, but it definitely breaks immersion. Much more than a system where PvP is allowed like on Earth with some sort of effective punishment.
So no, I still do not agree that FFA PvP ruins immersion. On the other hand, I do agree with you that a system which leads to constant FFA PvP may be ruining immersion as it would make the virtual world look like fantasy Quake III Arena. Those 2 statements are not the same though.
A built-in contentious-right-out-of-the-box player base.
You've got the Oldskool Hardcore fans. They really can be pretty obnoxious, and aren't at all interested in sharing their world with anyone not wearing the Classic Team jacket. Add some Smed, a few /FFAPVP Kill! guys, the usual members of the First Reformed Sandbox Church, maybe even some lost-and-confused PVE guys from EQ2, heathen infidels from WoW--and stir.
Explosive. From day one.
Maybe Aug2 announcements will cause one or more of the contending combatants to drop out.
But would you say the odds of that are good, from watching pre-release of other games?
Scary place to raise a kid. Or a newb.
My one worry right off the bat is if there is no PVP, that to me would suck but they have said there will be, so not a real worry.
Biggest worry that it is all hype and a pay2win cash shop, would uninstall right away.
RIP Orc Choppa
Originally posted by coretex666 So no, I still do not agree that FFA PvP ruins immersion. On the other hand, I do agree with you that a system which leads to constant FFA PvP may be ruining immersion as it would make the virtual world look like fantasy Quake III Arena. Those 2 statements are not the same though.
No, they're not the same, i agree. However, the reason i speak of them as the same is because there hasn't been a single MMORPG that has succussfully encouraged a "realistic" set of behaviours within its populace.
The only thing to come even remotely close is the "high-sec" area of EVE in which anyone can attack anyone, but will get destroyed seconds later by the police. This has resulted in people thinking very long and hard about whether they REALLY want to kill someone. That's as close as we've come.
I also think that it's rather pointless to try to set up such an environment. People who want FFA PvP for the sake of immersion - so that they can "settle arguments" and "feel more immersed" are very few and far between. The majority of people that want FFA PvP want it so that they go kill people for fun - the very concept of which is what breaks immersion. When's the last time on "our earth" that your friends called youp and said "hey, this weekend, let's go murder some people just because we can"? What breaks immersion is that the world ends up filled with psycho characters that would kill anyone, anywhere, for no reason at all, just because they can. This is not realistic in most virtual worlds.
So no, it's not FFA PvP that ruins immersion. But FFA PvP - in every game where it has been implemented - has led to player behaviour that ruins immersion, so it inevitably leads to immersion being ruined.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STOFavourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, FirefallCurrently Playing: ESO
I have 3
1 SoE kills games, I was a huge SWG fan, they NGE'd it 2 days after my birthday.
2 Realistic graphics, I really enjoy them. Final Fantasy does a great job with it, WoW not so much, I play WoW as a competitive gamer, I don't think every MMO should be that way, I'd like some virtual world feeling.
3 Free to play, sorry communities... you are horrible. I've been here a long time, free to play games are all trolls and shite talking kids. At least when it comes to the casual interactions I've had on those games. Never had a lasting guild or friendship, had to have a Pay to play for that. You know so people have a vested interest in their community.
Originally posted by arieste Originally posted by coretex666 So no, I still do not agree that FFA PvP ruins immersion. On the other hand, I do agree with you that a system which leads to constant FFA PvP may be ruining immersion as it would make the virtual world look like fantasy Quake III Arena. Those 2 statements are not the same though.
I agree with this.
I think that besides EVE, Lineage 2, also handled the OW FFA PvP quite well.
There was a simple, yet strong and effective regulatory mechanism represented by "player killer" system.
You really thought twice before you even hit someone in a public place, not to mention kill them
My biggest concern would be too much solo content. I play MMOs for group content, not to run through the game and reach max level solo.
I'm not talking about having the mindless group content like WoW either. Running through a "heroic" dungeon in a matter of 5-10 minutes and not having to worry about if other group members can keep up.
Difficult group content is what I'm looking for.
- - "What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?" - -
My biggest fear that the core game is shallow and lacks staying power.
You are absolutely correct. There is no effective deterrent to bad behavior in a game, and uncontrolled PvP only fosters those undesirable behaviors. Immersion broken.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
My worry is it will be 'action' combat 1 hotbar for people that can't handle more than 1 and use the excuse that having to pick 10 skills out of all the ones you know is in some way more tactical,like..
'Fangrim! you are the wizard of this group!!! why didn't you blast those orcs with your fireball?' 'ummm seems I forgot how to use it and I picked single target zap instead' so lame,there are plenty of 1 hotbar games for kids to play for these people.
Also a worry is it will be made to solo from 1- max level to suit people who play online games 100% solo........ I mean WTF?
Lets at least at launch make it so grouping is needed maybe not to progress but at least progress at a reasonable rate.Say it takes 30 times longer to get to max level solo than grouped would be good.After a few expansions and stuff maybe the older content can be made a little easier for new players so they don't need to rely on group play to catch up.
I generally hate fast leveling.
I have no worries with the F2P because I play EQ2 and there is nothing at all in their shop that bugs me in any way and if it is a game worth playing i won't be F2P anyway as i will take their subscription option which ofc will be there.
The way EQ2 has gone is what makes me have these worries because solo play fast leveling is the way that once good fun group content game has sadly gone.
Gnome Wankers two.After the events of 18/07/2015 i fucking hate anyone that has anything to do with skyforge
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Cash Shop is a problem, but since SoE confirmed it already I am trying to get over it.
Apart for that my biggest worry is that EQNEXT will be too casual/solo friendly.
I am fed up with casual games, being themeparks or sandboxes.
I'm curious how many of you people have actually played an SOE game and used the cash shop. I've played several SOE games (Planetside 2, EQ, EQ2, DCUO) and rarely felt the cash shop was in the way. All I've ever seen in SOE's cash shop is cosmetic items and xp boosts and stuff like that. Planetside 2 allows you to unlock weapons using SC but most of those weapons can be unlocked in-game via earning certs for kills, base caps, etc. There are a few weapons that can ONLY be bought using SC but they're not game-breaking by any means.
My biggest concern is the current model for EQ and EQ2 being used as the basis for the EQN, i.e.- having to unlock higher tier spells and fabled/legendary weapons using the cash shop or be forced to pay a subscription. If I have access to all the same spells and stuff as everyone else, then no harm, no foul.
A smaller concern is that they don't have at least most of the races as they do in EQ2. Iksar or bust.
Captain Cash Shop and the Crediteers
Cosmetics!Pets!Mounts!Materials!Raid Gear!GO CASH SHOP!By your powers combined I am Captain Cash Shop!Captain Cash Shop, he's our hero,Gonna take subscriptions down to zero,He is dev greed magnified,And he's fighting on the publisher's side.Captain Cash Shop, he's our hero,Gonna take subscriptions down to zero,Gonna drain the wallets of the--,Players who want fair loot and plunder."You'll $PAY$ for this Captain Cash Shop!"(chanting)We're the crediteers,You can be one too!'Cause spending those thousands is the thing to do,Subbing to a fair game is not the way,Hear what Captain Cash Shop has to say:"THE (BOUGHT) POWER IS YOURS!!"
Originally posted by arieste i find EQ2's SC shop completely harmless. I would absolutely HATE having to buy chest keys from SC shop like in Neverwinter and games that have that setup. EQ2 just has appearance items and you can get plenty of good appearance items in-game. Plus you can easily buy SC with in-game earned plat. I have a couple of main worries: 1. It will be almost entirely a solo game - the latest EQ2 expacs have all been going in this direction, they don't even make group shared dungeons or group quests anymore, all solo except for the group & raid instances. The group content is still good, but i don't want ALL quests i nthe game to be solo. 2. it will have Global Cooldown combat. This is probably as close to a game-breaker as it gets for me. I can get behind all kinds of different combat systems, but GCD just kills any fluidity of combat for me and makes combat not fun. 3. It won't have Ratonga. It may be shallow, but i would really miss my favourite EQ race if it ends up not included
No Ratonga = no play for me. That is the only race I played in EQ2, and I love being a Necro-Rat. Other worries are: Pay to win cash shop. No PvP at all. No reason to group, no trinity. These would all be game killers for me. I like solo but I also like quests where you have to have a team to complete it. Mostly if this game is only pve I won't play. That is the absolute. I know a lot of pve'rs don't like the mention of pvp, but to truly be successful there has to be some, and no i don't mean pve/pvp servers. It should be 1 server. EVE can do it so can EQnext. Remember this is my opinion, yours may vary. I'm just talking about what would kill the game for me. Notice I didn't say that it has to be full loot open world pvp, but that some form should be present.
Currently bored with MMO's.
Originally posted by Scarecrow83 I'm curious how many of you people have actually played an SOE game and used the cash shop. I've played several SOE games (Planetside 2, EQ, EQ2, DCUO) and rarely felt the cash shop was in the way. All I've ever seen in SOE's cash shop is cosmetic items and xp boosts and stuff like that.
+1. As much as i'd like to have the game be entirely sub based and P2P, we know that's not happening. In the world of lesser evils, I'll gladly take EQ2's cash shop with its cosmetic items, mounts and other things that have virtually no gameplay impact.