Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?

1910111214

Comments

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Robokapp
    Originally posted by Agoden I'd say i don't care, but it honestly bothers me. It's time for people to just mingle and accept each others beliefs and preferences...
    would you accept my belief that the earth is flat ?


    If you kept your belief to yourself, sure, why not?

    If you wanted to talk to people who weren't going to mock you though, I'd suggest starting a "Flat Earth" guild.

    Also, FYI, active since 2004:
    http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

    Where you could possibly find members.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    First of all I want to give everyone in this thread a ribbon.

    Seriously, we get threads shut down in minutes debating trivial things like the pay structure of a game. Yet, here we are on, what page 35, of a thread concerning a "touchy" topic, with a warning on page 2 going strong.

     

    Again bravo to everyone for being civil.

     

    To recap I think the consensus is this: (incase you don't want to read 30+pages) "As long as these guilds don't take to open channels and disrupt others gameplay, and you are just looking for "like minds" to spend their time with, we seem to be OK with them."

     

     

    This makes me VERY proud. Seem we are generally a bunch of Libertarians.

     

    Liberty > ALL

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by KBishop

    Originally posted by Razeekster "Dumb: Adjective: (of a person) Unable to speak, most typically because of congenital deafness.   Verb: Simplify or reduce the intellectual content of something so as to make it accessible to a larger number of people.   Synonyms: mute - speechless - silent - voiceless - inarticulate"   I fail to see how this is a case of "Pot meet kettle." I never insulted anyone. I simply said that "gay" does not mean "dumb." Which is 100% true. So again, I don't see why I would have to apologize.     
    It's the same because dumb origionally meant people either suffering from mental retardation, or as you noted, people who are unable to speak. Using dumb for anything else is adding a negative stigma to something that is a serious issue that cannot be helped by an individual. Likewise, other words that are morphed are: retarded, bitch, the n word, and so on. To have a problem with the use of gay or faggot is justifiable, but you can't JUST have a problem with gay and faggot when you are using 'dumb', 'retarded', 'bitch', the n word and so on. Likewise, to only have a problem with gay and faggot and not the other words mentioned makes you more or less a hypocrite, because it's only bad when a word is used negatively when it affects you   edit: additional words that are used negatively and not as their intended meaning. Lame, stupid, idiot, little-girl


    There is a difference between being angry at the misuse of words, especially as insults, and being angry at the misuse of words that are a direct insult to you. There's also a difference between being born into a system where the words have already changed meaning, and being present while the meaning is being changed, especially when it denigrates something in your own life.

    It's not feasible for people to fight every change in word usage. It takes an intensity that doesn't exist in most people. A personal stake is needed. So people who have family members or friends who are mentally challenged fight against "retarded". LBGT take up the fight against "gay". People who don't like the definition of "MMO" that the industry supports take up the fight against that. Doing it any other way doesn't make sense.

    **

    The other side of this is that a lot of words get added, removed and changed in the common vernacular and nobody cares. If people constantly fought against every word change, we'd still be speaking whatever language we spoke when we left Africa, and we'd have no idea what to call these things we're typing into all the time.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • KBishopKBishop tracy, CAPosts: 205Member
    Originally posted by Grahor

    You people are bunch of retards, and I'm saying it knowing the definition of "retard". 

     

    You don't have "white studies" in the university because that would be redundant. All studies are white, because we are the majority. When doctors study a new disease, what they study is "how it affects the majority, aka whites"; if the situation is different with minorities, THEN you have "black studies", because you specifically need to attend to the differences with main research, aka research on whites.

     

    The whole university is "The University of White Studies", which has Black Studies department to specifically research the small area where blacks are different from whites.

     

    Same with guilds. The majority of guilds consist of White Heterosexuals, who will always be at home in them, because they are surrounded by White Heterosexuals. So you don't fcuking need White guild, because every guild is white! In every guild, except those that are specifically set up as minority guilds, White Heterosexuals set up the rules, and it's White Heterosexual rules. Sure, if those particular White Heterosexuals are tolerant, their rules tolerate non-white and/or non-heterosexuals; but those non-white and/or non-heterosexuals are just tolerated in White guilds in White world, not setting the rules themselves.

     

    So white majority sets the rules itself by default, but if you want gays to set the rules of conduct and behaviors, then you need gay guilds; and who the fcuk would deny them that? Just retarded, stupid, dumb fcuks like you are.

     

    Okay, that's another ban for me, but at least this time I've at least said what I wanted to say.

     

     

    It's pretty sad that a non-white person has to tell you that there needs to be white study. Not all white people are the same. Irish people have a different history than German people have a different history than Polish people etc. To say all history is white history is ignorant at best and completely ignores the multiple European cultures that have come to this country. Just because you are white doesn't make you equal, Europe has proven that for many hundreds of years.

    You clearly aren't understanding what equality means. Do you know why the Black Panthers are allowed to exist? Because the KKK is allowed to exist. Equality means that if I can make an LGBT guild or a Black guild, then YOU can make a heterosexual guild or a White guild. If you can't make an exclusive guild, then I can't make an exclusive guild. No exceptions.

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,558Member Uncommon
    Let people do what they want.  Telling others they are "not allowed" is pushing your conformist view point on them - like the problem with public education which is suppose to allow all religions but adherently teaches all Darwinism.  A guild is a group of players not the entire game so let them express themselves however.  Now if Blizzard said no one can play my game unless they are gay/religious that would an issue.  But groups/guilds are not forcing themselves on anyone so it's fine.

  • KBishopKBishop tracy, CAPosts: 205Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Originally posted by KBishop It's the same because dumb origionally meant people either suffering from mental retardation, or as you noted, people who are unable to speak. Using dumb for anything else is adding a negative stigma to something that is a serious issue that cannot be helped by an individual. Likewise, other words that are morphed are: retarded, bitch, the n word, and so on. To have a problem with the use of gay or faggot is justifiable, but you can't JUST have a problem with gay and faggot when you are using 'dumb', 'retarded', 'bitch', the n word and so on. Likewise, to only have a problem with gay and faggot and not the other words mentioned makes you more or less a hypocrite, because it's only bad when a word is used negatively when it affects you   edit: additional words that are used negatively and not as their intended meaning. Lame, stupid, idiot, little-girl


    There is a difference between being angry at the misuse of words, especially as insults, and being angry at the misuse of words that are a direct insult to you. There's also a difference between being born into a system where the words have already changed meaning, and being present while the meaning is being changed, especially when it denigrates something in your own life.

    It's not feasible for people to fight every change in word usage. It takes an intensity that doesn't exist in most people. A personal stake is needed. So people who have family members or friends who are mentally challenged fight against "retarded". LBGT take up the fight against "gay". People who don't like the definition of "MMO" that the industry supports take up the fight against that. Doing it any other way doesn't make sense.

     

    The only real difference is the typical level of reaction. If it's a word that involves a group you belong in, it's only natural for you to be upset, but if its a word that involves a group that you DON'T belong in, it's only natural for you to not care. I can't get mad at someone for throwing around the word faggot or gay because I throw retarded and bitch around equally. If I expect someone to apologize to me for using those words, then I should apologize to each and every one of my female friends and my mentally disabled aunt. Gay has already morphed its meaning from being happy to being a homosexual, to being a homosexual man, and is now on the verge to morphing into being stupid. The other words I have listed have morphed at least once in the last 30 years, some in the last 15.

    It's not feasible to fight every word because we are all incredibly inconsistent about it. When LGBT fight against the word gay, they are still misusing retard. When family/friends of mentally disabled fight against retarded, they misuse gay. When women fight against the use of bitch, most of them are misusing retard and faggot. No group can win because no group can concede to being fair to other groups and their plights.

     

    BTW, Take notice how when I mention someone who is mentally disabled, I don't call them retarded despite the fact that per definition they are. Thats just the exact negative stigma that the use of the word retarded has gained.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by KBishop

    Originally posted by Grahor You people are bunch of retards, and I'm saying it knowing the definition of "retard".    You don't have "white studies" in the university because that would be redundant. All studies are white, because we are the majority. When doctors study a new disease, what they study is "how it affects the majority, aka whites"; if the situation is different with minorities, THEN you have "black studies", because you specifically need to attend to the differences with main research, aka research on whites.   The whole university is "The University of White Studies", which has Black Studies department to specifically research the small area where blacks are different from whites.   Same with guilds. The majority of guilds consist of White Heterosexuals, who will always be at home in them, because they are surrounded by White Heterosexuals. So you don't fcuking need White guild, because every guild is white! In every guild, except those that are specifically set up as minority guilds, White Heterosexuals set up the rules, and it's White Heterosexual rules. Sure, if those particular White Heterosexuals are tolerant, their rules tolerate non-white and/or non-heterosexuals; but those non-white and/or non-heterosexuals are just tolerated in White guilds in White world, not setting the rules themselves.   So white majority sets the rules itself by default, but if you want gays to set the rules of conduct and behaviors, then you need gay guilds; and who the fcuk would deny them that? Just retarded, stupid, dumb fcuks like you are.   Okay, that's another ban for me, but at least this time I've at least said what I wanted to say.    
    It's pretty sad that a non-white person has to tell you that there needs to be white study. Not all white people are the same. Irish people have a different history than German people have a different history than Polish people etc. To say all history is white history is ignorant at best and completely ignores the multiple European cultures that have come to this country. Just because you are white doesn't make you equal, Europe has proven that for many hundreds of years.

    You clearly aren't understanding what equality means. Do you know why the Black Panthers are allowed to exist? Because the KKK is allowed to exist. Equality means that if I can make an LGBT guild or a Black guild, then YOU can make a heterosexual guild or a White guild. If you can't make an exclusive guild, then I can't make an exclusive guild. No exceptions.



    Who brought up the word "Equality"? I didn't. I'm not sure who did. But it's not about equality, it's about being around people who share similarities, and at the same time, not excluding people for being different. I'm speaking from personal experience here, but I think it's pretty accurate to say that a KKK guild would not allow any African American or Chinese members. They would exclude members based on race. So no, a KKK guild does not need to be allowed. I'm honestly not sure about a Black Panther guild, but I suspect they wouldn't allow some members based on race. Do the Black Panthers even still exist? Are they at all related to the Black Panthers that started in the 60s?

    But really, if you truly think a KKK guild would be fine, then you probably don't understand why people might feel that they need a LBGT or Religiously themed guild.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,411Member Uncommon

    They don't annoy me. Why would they? How are they any different than all the loud and redundant guild and character names, e.g., Gankenstein, SkillCosby, Lolegolass, Yoduh, etc.

  • KBishopKBishop tracy, CAPosts: 205Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by KBishop


    It's pretty sad that a non-white person has to tell you that there needs to be white study. Not all white people are the same. Irish people have a different history than German people have a different history than Polish people etc. To say all history is white history is ignorant at best and completely ignores the multiple European cultures that have come to this country. Just because you are white doesn't make you equal, Europe has proven that for many hundreds of years.

     

    You clearly aren't understanding what equality means. Do you know why the Black Panthers are allowed to exist? Because the KKK is allowed to exist. Equality means that if I can make an LGBT guild or a Black guild, then YOU can make a heterosexual guild or a White guild. If you can't make an exclusive guild, then I can't make an exclusive guild. No exceptions.



    Who brought up the word "Equality"? I didn't. I'm not sure who did. But it's not about equality, it's about being around people who share similarities, and at the same time, not excluding people for being different. I'm speaking from personal experience here, but I think it's pretty accurate to say that a KKK guild would not allow any African American or Chinese members. They would exclude members based on race. So no, a KKK guild does not need to be allowed. I'm honestly not sure about a Black Panther guild, but I suspect they wouldn't allow some members based on race. Do the Black Panthers even still exist? Are they at all related to the Black Panthers that started in the 60s?

    But really, if you truly think a KKK guild would be fine, then you probably don't understand why people might feel that they need a LBGT or Religiously themed guild.

     

    I don't KNOW how those guilds operate, I can't say if they are the 'this is a safe place for a group' or if its the 'this place is ONLY for this group' type of deal, so I wont talk about them specifically.

    The issue of equality arose when people brought up the concept of making a guild SPECIFICALLY to address heterosexuals or white people. Most people found that to be either redundant or ridiculous and some went so far as to say that shouldn't be allowed. Thats when you start encroaching on equality, because now we are saying that one group has more rights than another group. Sound familiar?

    Again, if we allow an LGBT based guild or a Christian based guild, and if we want to be fair, then there's really not much of a reason to deny someone who wants to make a white supremecist guild or a mens only guild. It's a question of whether you want to be fair or not.

  • PanzerbasePanzerbase Chicago, ILPosts: 423Member
    Well the bottom line is this, you can't really dictate what kind of guild people join, and the gaming industry would not touch that with a 10 ft pole. Well I guess in Russia you might get some jail time. 
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by KBishop

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by KBishop


    It's pretty sad that a non-white person has to tell you that there needs to be white study. Not all white people are the same. Irish people have a different history than German people have a different history than Polish people etc. To say all history is white history is ignorant at best and completely ignores the multiple European cultures that have come to this country. Just because you are white doesn't make you equal, Europe has proven that for many hundreds of years.   You clearly aren't understanding what equality means. Do you know why the Black Panthers are allowed to exist? Because the KKK is allowed to exist. Equality means that if I can make an LGBT guild or a Black guild, then YOU can make a heterosexual guild or a White guild. If you can't make an exclusive guild, then I can't make an exclusive guild. No exceptions.
    Who brought up the word "Equality"? I didn't. I'm not sure who did. But it's not about equality, it's about being around people who share similarities, and at the same time, not excluding people for being different. I'm speaking from personal experience here, but I think it's pretty accurate to say that a KKK guild would not allow any African American or Chinese members. They would exclude members based on race. So no, a KKK guild does not need to be allowed. I'm honestly not sure about a Black Panther guild, but I suspect they wouldn't allow some members based on race. Do the Black Panthers even still exist? Are they at all related to the Black Panthers that started in the 60s? But really, if you truly think a KKK guild would be fine, then you probably don't understand why people might feel that they need a LBGT or Religiously themed guild.  
    I don't KNOW how those guilds operate, I can't say if they are the 'this is a safe place for a group' or if its the 'this place is ONLY for this group' type of deal, so I wont talk about them specifically.

    The issue of equality arose when people brought up the concept of making a guild SPECIFICALLY to address heterosexuals or white people. Most people found that to be either redundant or ridiculous and some went so far as to say that shouldn't be allowed. Thats when you start encroaching on equality, because now we are saying that one group has more rights than another group. Sound familiar?

    Again, if we allow an LGBT based guild or a Christian based guild, and if we want to be fair, then there's really not much of a reason to deny someone who wants to make a white supremecist guild or a mens only guild. It's a question of whether you want to be fair or not.



    Uh, no. Allowiing a LBGT guild addresses an inequality that is built into population demographics. So does allowing a Religious guild, especially in gamer populations. Furthermore, at least in the case of Blizzard, the customers wanted it.

    Allowing a White Supremacist guild doesn't address an inequality that is built into population demographics. A White Supremacist guild would also deny membership based on the race of the player. I'm not gay, but I could join a LBGT guild. I'm not religious but I could join a Religious guild. If I were not white, I could not join a White Supremacist guild. So no, a White Supremacist guild is not necessary to be "fair". I'm reasonably sure that the customers would not want it either. Since MMORPGs are private clubs and not public venues, then this is perfectly "fair".

    **

    Also, stop pretending to be ignorant of how a White Supremacist group would operate. They would deny members based on race because that's the whole purpose of their group.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • KBishopKBishop tracy, CAPosts: 205Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Uh, no. Allowiing a LBGT guild addresses an inequality that is built into population demographics. So does allowing a Religious guild, especially in gamer populations. Furthermore, at least in the case of Blizzard, the customers wanted it.

    Allowing a White Supremacist guild doesn't address an inequality that is built into population demographics. A White Supremacist guild would also deny membership based on the race of the player. I'm not gay, but I could join a LBGT guild. I'm not religious but I could join a Religious guild. If I were not white, I could not join a White Supremacist guild. So no, a White Supremacist guild is not necessary to be "fair". I'm reasonably sure that the customers would not want it either. Since MMORPGs are private clubs and not public venues, then this is perfectly "fair".

     

    Firstly in regards to religion, it totally depends on the religion. Christianity by and large is the dominate religion in America, and last I checked like 70%~ people at least identified with Christianity. So by your entire summation, we should be allowed to make an Islamic, Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu group, but a Christianity group is out of the question because they are already the majority.

    There is inequality built across all groups including the majority. Thinking otherwise is clearly not thinking at all. Furthermore, just because the people in power happen to be white heterosexual males does NOT mean that all white heterosexual males have power. Thats a faulty assumption. So to allow LGBT and Non-Christian Religious and Blacks/Hispanic etc to make a guild and to NOT allow heterosexuals, Christians, or Whites to make a guild specifically for themselves IS the example of inequality. Because you are now saying that someone has less rights in this venue because of something they can't help.

    Again, I don't know how the LGBT guilds work, but I've seen enough LGBT groups that a strictly 'heterosexuals get the fuck out' that I certain a few might exist. That's exclusion. Furthermore, as much as many wish to not admit, when a group focuses on the plights on one group, that is also exclusion. When a group goes into the ghetto and focuses on the problem of black teens, they are exclusively forgetting the problems of the white, hispanic, and asian teens. While it's not outright saying "if you're not black, get the fuck out", it's subtly saying "If you're not black, we're not going to go out of our way to help you"

    If you want things to be fair, then you have to allow all groups that aren't doing things illegal. Just because you don't like what they are doing doesn't mean anything, because a lot of people probably don't like what you are doing. Should your rights be revoked? Of course not.. because their your rights..

     

    edit: btw dude, I'm black. I'm familiar with how the white supremecist work. I'm not about to say they can't exist because I have personal feelings about them, because then that eliminates the freedom to make a safe group for people to be in. Thats tough shit to me, but then I can enjoy the rights of having a black only, male only, or LGBT only group because of it.

  • WalterWhiteWalterWhite CardiffPosts: 394Member Uncommon
    I wouldn't join one as that is not my thing but it will be good for those people as they can all be in a guild with others that have the same views or lifestyles.

    image

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KBishop
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Uh, no. Allowiing a LBGT guild addresses an inequality that is built into population demographics. So does allowing a Religious guild, especially in gamer populations. Furthermore, at least in the case of Blizzard, the customers wanted it.

    Allowing a White Supremacist guild doesn't address an inequality that is built into population demographics. A White Supremacist guild would also deny membership based on the race of the player. I'm not gay, but I could join a LBGT guild. I'm not religious but I could join a Religious guild. If I were not white, I could not join a White Supremacist guild. So no, a White Supremacist guild is not necessary to be "fair". I'm reasonably sure that the customers would not want it either. Since MMORPGs are private clubs and not public venues, then this is perfectly "fair".

     

    Firstly in regards to religion, it totally depends on the religion. Christianity by and large is the dominate religion in America, and last I checked like 70%~ people at least identified with Christianity. So by your entire summation, we should be allowed to make an Islamic, Jewish, Buddhist and Hindu group, but a Christianity group is out of the question because they are already the majority.

    There is inequality built across all groups including the majority. Thinking otherwise is clearly not thinking at all. Furthermore, just because the people in power happen to be white heterosexual males does NOT mean that all white heterosexual males have power. Thats a faulty assumption. So to allow LGBT and Non-Christian Religious and Blacks/Hispanic etc to make a guild and to NOT allow heterosexuals, Christians, or Whites to make a guild specifically for themselves IS the example of inequality. Because you are now saying that someone has less rights in this venue because of something they can't help.

    Again, I don't know how the LGBT guilds work, but I've seen enough LGBT groups that a strictly 'heterosexuals get the fuck out' that I certain a few might exist. That's exclusion. Furthermore, as much as many wish to not admit, when a group focuses on the plights on one group, that is also exclusion. When a group goes into the ghetto and focuses on the problem of black teens, they are exclusively forgetting the problems of the white, hispanic, and asian teens. While it's not outright saying "if you're not black, get the fuck out", it's subtly saying "If you're not black, we're not going to go out of our way to help you"

    If you want things to be fair, then you have to allow all groups that aren't doing things illegal. Just because you don't like what they are doing doesn't mean anything, because a lot of people probably don't like what you are doing. Should your rights be revoked? Of course not.. because their your rights..

     

    edit: btw dude, I'm black. I'm familiar with how the white supremecist work. I'm not about to say they can't exist because I have personal feelings about them, because then that eliminates the freedom to make a safe group for people to be in. Thats tough shit to me, but then I can enjoy the rights of having a black only, male only, or LGBT only group because of it.

    I am slightly familiar with 1 LGBT guild in RIFT. I was told, by members, that it was about having a "safe" environment. I take them at their word. They advertised with the label, so players knew. Not to antagonize or troll. They didn't require LGBT, but that you were friendly to such. Now when you get into "Supremacy" guilds, you can run into discrimination. But if you want to get into semantics, I see discrimination when I hear a guild require 18+, Vent, 3 day a week raiding, you know the common ones. Truth is "IN" guild discrimination is allowed. Same as "IN" any club or group. Most often this is done sub-consciously, by grouping with people with similar likes. Problems arise when any group attempts to force it's "discrimination" on the greater populace.

     

    I think we have again beat the dead horse of "Let them group, just don't grief, or be a dick face", but I do find it stimulating, and without debate there is no growth.

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 774Member Uncommon

    There are heavy RP guilds, military focused guilds, laid back guilds.  IMO, theme or don't theme your guild however you want.  My only reservation to that would be;  Much like in real life, do not come to me, uninvited, and start trying to convince me I need to be like you.  I do not push my lifestyle on others and I expect the same courtesy in return.

    Bottom line: to each their own.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hatefull

    There are heavy RP guilds, military focused guilds, laid back guilds.  IMO, theme or don't theme your guild however you want.  My only reservation to that would be;  Much like in real life, do not come to me, uninvited, and start trying to convince me I need to be like you.  I do not push my lifestyle on others and I expect the same courtesy in return.

    Bottom line: to each their own.

    Libertarianism FTW +1

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    If people are looking to make a connection and feel a sense of community within a game, I think that's great. 

     

    I tend to connect more based on a commonality of goals within the game.  For example, does the guild focus more on pve vs pvp or crafting?  Is there a role playing element and if so how light or intense is the rp aspect.  Do they group very much, are they talkative in chat, are people willing to help and answer questions?  These are some of the things I look for in choosing a guild.

  • NovusodNovusod Lakewood, NJPosts: 892Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    This article on Massively: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/18/ask-massively-taboo-topics/

    talks about the subject of "themed" guilds, in particular, guilds with a religious focus or a LGBT focus. Really, the guild is focused on gaming, but you know what I mean.

     

    Do religious guilds ruin your immersion in a game? What about LBGT guilds? Are there even that many guilds that advertise themselves based on a given religion or orientation?
     

    From an immersion point of view real life themed armies certainly existed in historical context. Example being the Knights Templar or other Crusader groups who were fighting holy war. Members had to take oaths and they definitely didn't let atheists or non-committals join.

    There are even historical accounts of LGBT focused armies though they didn't call themselves LGBT. The Greek commander Phaedrus believed the power of male sexual relationships improved bravery in the military. Plato even wrote about it as well: "he would prefer to die many deaths: while as for leaving the one he loves in a lurch, or not succoring him in peril, no man is such a craven that the influence of Love cannot inspire him with a courage that makes him equal to the bravest born."

    It is widely believed the Spartan 300 were all gay men. The Greek City of Thebes was so inspired by the Spartan 300 that they created their own elite army called the Sacred Band of Thebes. (Imagine that for a guild name implying that members be both religious and gay) The force consisted of 150 pairs of male lovers and they were the front line shock troops of the ancient Greek army.

     

    So what is the deal with people complaining about immersion? Basically what those immersion complainers are saying is "I am ignorant and want to live in an over simplified word where nothing can offend me."

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Eh, I'd   be happy  with an all  atheist guild but  you dont really see  those.
  • EunuchmakerEunuchmaker Harlingen, TXPosts: 204Member
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    I think those guilds are a good idea. It keeps all the people who can't leave that stuff at the door away from everyone that can.

     

    Win.

  • HannamerikaHannamerika Mabton, WAPosts: 6Member

    I am an older player and consequently among a group of people that some would prefer not to play with.   Some think I will be too slow or they simply don't want to deal with me at all.  They came to the game to escape their mothers, not play with her.  The thing is, I can be in game, and I can play, and you don't have to deal with me if you don't want to.

    By the same token, if I don't want to be propositioned by a straight or a gay and if I don't want to have to listen to all the vulgar and foul language so often seen in these games, then I can join a religious guild and have people to interact who are not going to insult me with those things.  I also have a safe haven to bring my grandchildren to where I don't need to worry about them being exposed to the things we work so hard to protect them from in real life.

    I can also socialize...meaning chat...with people who share many of my same interests.  Our guild for example, talks about everything from cooking to books to education and yes, religious topics, one of which is learning Greek.  For me, this enhances the game experience 10 fold.  And I bet there are activities some of the rest of you engage in that are not strictly game related that make the games relevant in your life.

    We ALL segregate ourselves to some extent in real life, whether we want to admit it or not.  That doesn't have to mean we have it out for a certain group, or hate a certain group, it just means that particular thing is not our thing and that is OK.  There are a lot of things going on in this world I don't like, and that I would like to change if I could, but I can't.  All I can do is live my life the way I believe I should live it and hope that my life may be of some help to someone else.

    Now, if you WANT to discuss religion, or even debate that or any other issue, I am game, and I love it, but I REFUSE to argue.  I do love a good debate, an honest exchange of thoughts and ideas.  I have even been persuaded in a different direction on occasion.  Let me see, the last time was ah..............ah.................hmmmm, I can't remember:)  JUST KIDDING:)

  • EpicentEpicent Pierre Part, LAPosts: 647Member
    Originally posted by Hannamerika

    I am an older player and consequently among a group of people that some would prefer not to play with.   Some think I will be too slow or they simply don't want to deal with me at all.  They came to the game to escape their mothers, not play with her.  The thing is, I can be in game, and I can play, and you don't have to deal with me if you don't want to.

    By the same token, if I don't want to be propositioned by a straight or a gay and if I don't want to have to listen to all the vulgar and foul language so often seen in these games, then I can join a religious guild and have people to interact who are not going to insult me with those things.  I also have a safe haven to bring my grandchildren to where I don't need to worry about them being exposed to the things we work so hard to protect them from in real life.

    I can also socialize...meaning chat...with people who share many of my same interests.  Our guild for example, talks about everything from cooking to books to education and yes, religious topics, one of which is learning Greek.  For me, this enhances the game experience 10 fold.  And I bet there are activities some of the rest of you engage in that are not strictly game related that make the games relevant in your life.

    We ALL segregate ourselves to some extent in real life, whether we want to admit it or not.  That doesn't have to mean we have it out for a certain group, or hate a certain group, it just means that particular thing is not our thing and that is OK.  There are a lot of things going on in this world I don't like, and that I would like to change if I could, but I can't.  All I can do is live my life the way I believe I should live it and hope that my life may be of some help to someone else.

    Now, if you WANT to discuss religion, or even debate that or any other issue, I am game, and I love it, but I REFUSE to argue.  I do love a good debate, an honest exchange of thoughts and ideas.  I have even been persuaded in a different direction on occasion.  Let me see, the last time was ah..............ah.................hmmmm, I can't remember:)  JUST KIDDING:)

    A religious guild  in no way correlates to goodness. If anything  I would  say the  opposite is true.   Statistically  countries with less theist and more nontheist  have lower  crime rates  in all areas.  I actually find the notion that religious=goodness   insulting. After all most of the Gods in these books have commited genocide in one way or another.

  • HannamerikaHannamerika Mabton, WAPosts: 6Member
    I said nothing about goodness, and you may be enlightened to know that the last thing any Christian would claim is "goodness".  We are Christians because we admit and recognize our lack thereof.  That having been said, I KNOW that no one in the guild,  is going to try to engage me in "sex talk" or use vulgar or foul language and remain a member.
  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Robokapp

    Originally posted by Agoden I'd say i don't care, but it honestly bothers me. It's time for people to just mingle and accept each others beliefs and preferences...
    would you accept my belief that the earth is flat ?

    If you kept your belief to yourself, sure, why not?

    If you wanted to talk to people who weren't going to mock you though, I'd suggest starting a "Flat Earth" guild.

    Also, FYI, active since 2004:
    http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

    Where you could possibly find members.

     

    i'll answer the "why not" part. because it shows ignorance to reason...and that's the worst kind of ignorance. that's inquisition-level of ignorance.

    image

  • pmw4friendpmw4friend lawrenceville, GAPosts: 63Member
    I agree with robokapp, it should not matter what your belief are everyone should accept others belief without judging.
This discussion has been closed.