Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?

Khalathwyr · July 2013

Originally posted by Four0Six
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by Four0Six
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Sorry, but when someone threatens a specific group with physical violence over the net, it's definitely a job for the police. I won't post examples because it would definitely break this forum's rules.

It's the same thing than if some guy phones the police saying he hid a bomb somewhere. That's no joke, no damned "free speech" matter, no matter if it's true or not.

I don't feel threatened by some words on the net.

Your example is on point, but for a different argument. Like yelling "Fire!" is a crowded room. It can cause a riot and hurt people.

If some nut-job goes into a rant, let em rant. "Dog's don't bite while barking."

For a threat to be a threat in my book it needs to be credible. NoobKillerxXx, saying "I am going to kill you and skull Fu** you." in some random chat deserves a /report, but not much more in my book. Now a mob chanting with pitchforks and torches outside my door is a much more credible threat, and likely deserves my governments attention.....

I believe there is an actual case where someone is in jail because of a death threat in a game. Won't post the link as it irrelevant to the thread. It is criminal however, and should be policed.

A Texas teen is in jail for making an off handed remark to a friend on FB, which was seen by an outside observer and misunderstood. He now sits in Jail. It based on gun-fear and not race or anything else. Over-reaching government again.

The kid was stupid. Hopefully he learned that while he CAN say anything, he shouldn't always. Anyway, he's out of jail now. An anonymous person paid his bail.

KBishop · July 2013

Originally posted by aspekx
Originally posted by Adalwulff
If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe.

Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.

once again someone in the absolute majority, a majority which has systematically repressed a group of people for centuries thinks that the same rules apply to them. well they don't. heterophobic would imply the ability to ruin your life, cause you to lose your job, or insist that you cannot marry the person you love, it would include being verbally harrassed for holding hands in public, or at times even physically assaulted. name me the heteros with this experience and we might could talk.

Thats how equality works.

If someone can make an all black guild, an all female guild, an all LGBT guild etc, then someone can make an all white, male, straight guild.

saying that one group cant do it for any reason (even if that reason is that they are a majority) is still exclusion and bigotry.

Kyleran · July 2013

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Kyleran
I've never joined a Christian only guild, but I respect people's right to do so. Needless to say I never have been a member of a guild with a name like "Satan's Raiders" or the "666-Mafia"

You may know that in most MMORPGs, the use of both good and evil religious figures as names is forbidden anyway. No neither satan nor jesus could be used for a guild name anyway. Which is only fair in my opinion.

You are correct, probably could have come put with a better example such as Hell's Raiders or Evil Incarnate, both names which I have seen in use along with my original example of the 666-Mafia.

BTW, I don't begrudge anyone the right to use those names, perfectly fine by me, I just won't join a guild that uses them, (and they very likely wouldn't want me to) just a personal choice.

Brabbit1987 · July 2013

Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Cecropia
While I think it's kind of silly to have gay guilds (do we really need to segregate ourselves in video games too?), I don't see any real issue with the idea. Religious guilds on the other hand are completely inappropriate. When you have children playing these games they should never be exposed to these types of groups, that more often than not, judge and try to assimilate everyone they can (like it or lump it, that's the nature of the beast). Religion: keep it in your home or place of worship. It's that simple.

So gay guilds are ok but religious guilds are completely inappropriate? Total bullshit, either all are ok (which they are) or none, you have no right to restrict someone from doing something. And before you say anything else read your statement, look at how offensive it is to a certain group of individuals.

Thing is, homosexual people usually don't try to convert you to homosexuality, specially not online where they aren't in physical contact with you. Something religions are actively doing since the dawn of time.

I see his point, even if religious guilds aren't a problem for me... I rather have them somewhere else than in my guild. It's a bit like silly names in MMORPG, it helps knowing which people you don't want to play with. No religious nut tells me how to play my games.

No but some homosexuals, thankfully few, will try to force you to accept their lifestyle in ways they have no business intruding into. Bad behavior isn't limited to or excluded from any group. There is no moral high ground for bad behavior. Religious groups are no worse than groups that wear beanies with propellers on their heads.

I have never seen this happen, unless the other person said something against them. I mean, for them to even know someone doesn't accept their lifestyle, that person would have had to say so.

Like a homosexual just doesn't go up to someone random and say they need to accept their views.

Also, honestly, no one should be openly against homosexuality. If you are, you are just asking for it really.

KBishop · July 2013

Originally posted by Brabbit1987

I have never seen this happen, unless the other person said something against them. I mean, for them to even know someone doesn't accept their lifestyle, that person would have had to say so.

Like a homosexual just doesn't go up to someone random and say they need to accept their views.

Gay pride parade.

Thats a metaphorical and literal "I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it, even if it manages to mess up an entire section of a city for a day"

Four0Six · July 2013

Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by Four0Six
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by Four0Six
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Sorry, but when someone threatens a specific group with physical violence over the net, it's definitely a job for the police. I won't post examples because it would definitely break this forum's rules.

It's the same thing than if some guy phones the police saying he hid a bomb somewhere. That's no joke, no damned "free speech" matter, no matter if it's true or not.

I don't feel threatened by some words on the net.

Your example is on point, but for a different argument. Like yelling "Fire!" is a crowded room. It can cause a riot and hurt people.

If some nut-job goes into a rant, let em rant. "Dog's don't bite while barking."

For a threat to be a threat in my book it needs to be credible. NoobKillerxXx, saying "I am going to kill you and skull Fu** you." in some random chat deserves a /report, but not much more in my book. Now a mob chanting with pitchforks and torches outside my door is a much more credible threat, and likely deserves my governments attention.....

I believe there is an actual case where someone is in jail because of a death threat in a game. Won't post the link as it irrelevant to the thread. It is criminal however, and should be policed.

A Texas teen is in jail for making an off handed remark to a friend on FB, which was seen by an outside observer and misunderstood. He now sits in Jail. It based on gun-fear and not race or anything else. Over-reaching government again.

The kid was stupid. Hopefully he learned that while he CAN say anything, he shouldn't always. Anyway, he's out of jail now. An anonymous person paid his bail.

I agree. In this day and age of a public forum, being public in the world wide sense, one should watch ones mouth.

Brabbit1987 · July 2013

Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

I have never seen this happen, unless the other person said something against them. I mean, for them to even know someone doesn't accept their lifestyle, that person would have had to say so.

Like a homosexual just doesn't go up to someone random and say they need to accept their views.

Gay pride parade.

Thats a metaphorical and literal "I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it, even if it manages to mess up an entire section of a city for a day"

ROFL, but that isn't telling everyone they have to accept it. Fail to see how you get that from it. There is no forcing involved in that at all.

Edit: Think about it this way, that only happens a couple days out of the year or what ever it is. But homosexuals deal with that type of thing every single day, accept, people actively look to degrade and patronize them and force their opinions down their throat.

Loktofeit · July 2013

Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Adalwulff If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe. Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.

The odds of any guild being created not being mostly white, heterosexual and probably male is pretty close to zero. Creating a 'white, hetero' guild would be pointless. That already exists. There's no need to try and create a separate space. I don't think guilds based on race would be allowed in any game. Race is a different can of worms, one that I don't think any developer wants to open. I'm not sure about an all female and all male guild. Again though, all male guilds already exist, there's no need to try and create a separate space for them. One of the social aspects of guilds is finding people who may share common interests or who may have had the same experiences as the other people in the guild outside of the game. The guild I was in was composed of people who all worked for one company. We shared a common interest. From what I can see, this is the main point of a religious or LBGT guilds. Finding people who share a common interest or experiences when doing so otherwise would be nearly impossible in game.

Wrong, and its exactly the problem!!

How can you say any guild right now is ALL WHITE OR ALL HETERO? How can you say that for sure, because the odds are that there is a mix of races and genders, and also some gays Im sure.

So you are wrong, the problem is people like you assuming everything is white and hetero.

Look, its real simple, you either give everyone the same respect and allow them to congregate by whatever group they want too, or you don't allow anyone to congregate.

Anything less is racism, sexism or phobia. Period!

I didn't say all hetero. I said 'mostly'. The odds that a guild will be composed mostly of hetero males by chance is very high. The odds that a guild will be composed of non-hetero mix of males and females is very low. I would say, "Zero", but there's always a chance it could happen. Well, at least in the U.S. Can't really speak for even Western Europe.

So no, I'm not wrong. Do a little research on your own instead of whatever you used in place of research.

Also, leave race out of the discussion. Gamers for the most part are non-racial, unless the race includes some sort of stat bonus.

Your missing the point, its your perception of what the avg guild is like, is exactly the problem.

I have been in many guilds and there were always females around, and I am sure there were gays there too, and of course many other races.

I say race because it does matter, a guild can be by race, by gender, or by religious affiliation. It shouldn't matter.

If you build your guild based on the perception that most other guilds are full of "hetero white dudes", then you are no better than the jerks who make crappy remarks to females or gays.

You cannot have it both ways.

EDIT for spelling!

You have a lot of trouble with the difference between "all" and "most" and that's why you're having so much trouble here.

His perception, as well as his reasoning, regarding guild composition is spot on. If most of the players are heterosexual white males, then the odds of any guild being created not being mostly white, heterosexual and probably male members is pretty darn slim unless that guild is specifically looking to attract a different group.

KBishop · July 2013

Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

I have never seen this happen, unless the other person said something against them. I mean, for them to even know someone doesn't accept their lifestyle, that person would have had to say so.

Like a homosexual just doesn't go up to someone random and say they need to accept their views.

Gay pride parade.

Thats a metaphorical and literal "I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it, even if it manages to mess up an entire section of a city for a day"

ROFL, but that isn't telling everyone they have to accept it. Fail to see how you get that from it. There is no forcing involved in that at all.

Edit: Think about it this way, that only happens a couple days out of the year or what ever it is. But homosexuals deal with that type of thing every single day, accept, people actively look to degrade and patronize them and force their opinions down their throat.

We don't have to tell anyone to accept us. Heck you even said it yourself:

"Also, honestly, no one should be openly against homosexuality. If you are, you are just asking for it really."

We have a parade, and honestly probably one of the stupidest parades out there, and if anyone has a problem with it, even if it is for a legitimate reason that is not related to homosexuality, they get demonized by the greater community for being homophobic.

I know what homosexuals have to deal with every single day. I am part of the LGBT community. However the community is creating a very negative stigma that makes it incredibly hard for people like me to function, because people expect me to conform into what is the stereotype that much of the LGBT community perpetuates.

Sexuality is not important. Having a parade that flaunts the fact that you have a sexual difference from the norm is really not helping gays and lesbians lesson the bigotry, because they are continuously reinforcing that being gay or a lesbian does in fact make you different.

TheLizardbones · July 2013

Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by Adalwulff Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by Adalwulff If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe. Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.

The odds of any guild being created not being mostly white, heterosexual and probably male is pretty close to zero. Creating a 'white, hetero' guild would be pointless. That already exists. There's no need to try and create a separate space. I don't think guilds based on race would be allowed in any game. Race is a different can of worms, one that I don't think any developer wants to open. I'm not sure about an all female and all male guild. Again though, all male guilds already exist, there's no need to try and create a separate space for them. One of the social aspects of guilds is finding people who may share common interests or who may have had the same experiences as the other people in the guild outside of the game. The guild I was in was composed of people who all worked for one company. We shared a common interest. From what I can see, this is the main point of a religious or LBGT guilds. Finding people who share a common interest or experiences when doing so otherwise would be nearly impossible in game.

Wrong, and its exactly the problem!! How can you say any guild right now is ALL WHITE OR ALL HETERO? How can you say that for sure, because the odds are that there is a mix of races and genders, and also some gays Im sure. So you are wrong, the problem is people like you assuming everything is white and hetero. Look, its real simple, you either give everyone the same respect and allow them to congregate by whatever group they want too, or you don't allow anyone to congregate. Anything less is racism, sexism or phobia. Period!

I didn't say all hetero. I said 'mostly'. The odds that a guild will be composed mostly of hetero males by chance is very high. The odds that a guild will be composed of non-hetero mix of males and females is very low. I would say, "Zero", but there's always a chance it could happen. Well, at least in the U.S. Can't really speak for even Western Europe. So no, I'm not wrong. Do a little research on your own instead of whatever you used in place of research. Also, leave race out of the discussion. Gamers for the most part are non-racial, unless the race includes some sort of stat bonus.

Your missing the point, its your perception of what the avg guild is like, is exactly the problem.

I have been in many guilds and there were always females around, and I am sure there were gays there too, and of course many other races.

I say race because it does matter, a guild can be by race, by gender, or by religious affiliation. It shouldn't matter.

If you build your guild based on the perception that most other guilds are full of "hetero white dudes", then you are no better than the jerks who make crappy remarks to females or gays.

You cannot have it both ways.

EDIT for spelling!

The argument doesn't change if we completely skip to the assumption that there is an even mix of males and females in MMORPGs. There is still a teeny, tiny number of LBGT gamers compared to straight gamers. Any guild is going to be composed of primarily straight people, not LBGT people. The only way a LBGT gamer is going to be in a guild where the majority of people are LBGT is by setting up a guild as a LBGT guild. There's also a "Plus Allies" designation, but the assumption here is that guilds are not exclusive.

Ditto for people for whom religion plays a central role in their life. There can't be that many people for whom religion plays a central role in their life, and for whom video games and MMORPG are a main hobby. Any guild is going to be composed primarily of people for whom religion does not play a central roll in their life. The only way a religious person is going to find a guild composed primarily of other religious people is by setting a guild up as friendly to that religion.

Having guilds that are setup as LBGT or Religious doesn't give people something extra, it just brings them on-par with pretty much everyone else. That sounds more like a 'fair' system to me.

Shoko_Lied · July 2013

Ban them. I'm tolerant to other peoples beliefs/orientations, but leave it out of video games. People are already so damn sensitive about it in the real world, why bring that same issue to games?

tawess · July 2013

Originally posted by lizardbones

So, what do you think? Do religious guilds ruin your immersion in a game? What about LBGT guilds? Are there even that many guilds that advertise themselves based on a given religion or orientation?

On my long list of things i care about.... This is not one. Heck i support LBGT guilds fully. If people feel they need to find a safety-valve from the average day and can get that through a game, good for them.

Guilds based on religion, i see no problem with that as long as they do not try to preach to the masses.

I tend to find people with leet names and styuff like that a lot more distracting then the above mentioned. Live and let live i guess.

azzamasin · July 2013

Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by zymurgeist
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by azzamasin
Originally posted by Cecropia
While I think it's kind of silly to have gay guilds (do we really need to segregate ourselves in video games too?), I don't see any real issue with the idea. Religious guilds on the other hand are completely inappropriate. When you have children playing these games they should never be exposed to these types of groups, that more often than not, judge and try to assimilate everyone they can (like it or lump it, that's the nature of the beast). Religion: keep it in your home or place of worship. It's that simple.

So gay guilds are ok but religious guilds are completely inappropriate? Total bullshit, either all are ok (which they are) or none, you have no right to restrict someone from doing something. And before you say anything else read your statement, look at how offensive it is to a certain group of individuals.

Thing is, homosexual people usually don't try to convert you to homosexuality, specially not online where they aren't in physical contact with you. Something religions are actively doing since the dawn of time.

I see his point, even if religious guilds aren't a problem for me... I rather have them somewhere else than in my guild. It's a bit like silly names in MMORPG, it helps knowing which people you don't want to play with. No religious nut tells me how to play my games.

No but some homosexuals, thankfully few, will try to force you to accept their lifestyle in ways they have no business intruding into. Bad behavior isn't limited to or excluded from any group. There is no moral high ground for bad behavior. Religious groups are no worse than groups that wear beanies with propellers on their heads.

Heterosexuals make these kinds of comments in games all the time, but because it's mainstream, no one gives a damn. How do you think homosexuals feel when heterosexuality is forced upon them on a daily basis, yet we get berated if we make a single comment about our lives that you don't feel comfortable with?

Like what? I have never seen straight people talking about their bedroom lives unless its to their closest friends but people don't go around talking about their sexual proclivities around total strangers and if they do they are ill mannered, rude and obnoxious. Gay or Straight it doesn't matter, normal people just don't do these things. Unless you get pissed off when someone says wait a min I got girl friend agro or something as innocent as that. If you have a problem with that sort of talk then the problem is you my friend not them.

Brabbit1987 · July 2013

Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by KBishop
Originally posted by Brabbit1987

I have never seen this happen, unless the other person said something against them. I mean, for them to even know someone doesn't accept their lifestyle, that person would have had to say so.

Like a homosexual just doesn't go up to someone random and say they need to accept their views.

Gay pride parade.

Thats a metaphorical and literal "I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it, even if it manages to mess up an entire section of a city for a day"

ROFL, but that isn't telling everyone they have to accept it. Fail to see how you get that from it. There is no forcing involved in that at all.

Edit: Think about it this way, that only happens a couple days out of the year or what ever it is. But homosexuals deal with that type of thing every single day, accept, people actively look to degrade and patronize them and force their opinions down their throat.

We don't have to tell anyone to accept us. Heck you even said it yourself:

"Also, honestly, no one should be openly against homosexuality. If you are, you are just asking for it really."

We have a parade, and honestly probably one of the stupidest parades out there, and if anyone has a problem with it, even if it is for a legitimate reason that is not related to homosexuality, they get demonized by the greater community for being homophobic.

I know what homosexuals have to deal with every single day. I am part of the LGBT community. However the community is creating a very negative stigma that makes it incredibly hard for people like me to function, because people expect me to conform into what is the stereotype that much of the LGBT community perpetuates.

Sexuality is not important. Having a parade that flaunts the fact that you have a sexual difference from the norm is really not helping gays and lesbians lesson the bigotry, because they are continuously reinforcing that being gay or a lesbian does in fact make you different.

Well, back on subject, I wasn't talking about the stupid parade anyway XD. Was talking about in general.

Icewhite · July 2013

Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Kyleran
I've never joined a Christian only guild, but I respect people's right to do so. Needless to say I never have been a member of a guild with a name like "Satan's Raiders" or the "666-Mafia"

You may know that in most MMORPGs, the use of both good and evil religious figures as names is forbidden anyway. No neither satan nor jesus could be used for a guild name anyway. Which is only fair in my opinion.

You are correct, probably could have come put with a better example such as Hell's Raiders or Evil Incarnate, both names which I have seen in use along with my original example of the 666-Mafia.

BTW, I don't begrudge anyone the right to use those names, perfectly fine by me, I just won't join a guild that uses them, (and they very likely wouldn't want me to) just a personal choice.

I wouldn't use "666-Mafia", the 666 is a mistranslation..

Grahor · July 2013

Originally posted by denshing
Ban them. I'm tolerant to other peoples beliefs/orientations, but leave it out of video games. People are already so damn sensitive about it in the real world, why bring that same issue to games?

I totally agree here. I'm amazingly tolerant, but I will not tolerate those queers being queers while playing the same game as I do. And their oppressive sensitivity! You can't barely say a word or twenty about some faggot having abhorent gay relationships with a trash mob instead of playing properly, as they start to oppress you by forcing the acceptance of their lifestyle on you through disclosing that they are homos!

I'm a tolerant guy, but it's just yuck, you know? I don't want to know that a half-naked beast warrior playing next to me may actually, so to say, covet my donkey, or my avatar's donkey, if you get my meaning, all the time while I'm innocently trying to force a female magician char to send me pics of her tits. I mean, being openly gay in my game is, obviously, not worse than Hitler. But it's pretty close!

whisperwynd · July 2013

Originally posted by Grahor
Originally posted by denshing
Ban them. I'm tolerant to other peoples beliefs/orientations, but leave it out of video games. People are already so damn sensitive about it in the real world, why bring that same issue to games?

I totally agree here. I'm amazingly tolerant, but I will not tolerate those queers being queers while playing the same game as I do. And their oppressive sensitivity! You can't barely say a word or twenty about some faggot having abhorent gay relationships with a trash mob instead of playing properly, as they start to oppress you by forcing the acceptance of their lifestyle on you through disclosing that they are homos!

I'm a tolerant guy, but it's just yuck, you know? I don't want to know that a half-naked beast warrior playing next to me may actually, so to say, covet my donkey, or my avatar's donkey, if you get my meaning, all the time while I'm innocently trying to force a female magician char to send me pics of her tits. I mean, being openly gay in my game is, obviously, not worse than Hitler. But it's pretty close!

LOL Damn, that made me laugh.

Shoko_Lied · July 2013

Originally posted by Grahor
Originally posted by denshing
Ban them. I'm tolerant to other peoples beliefs/orientations, but leave it out of video games. People are already so damn sensitive about it in the real world, why bring that same issue to games?

I totally agree here. I'm amazingly tolerant, but I will not tolerate those queers being queers while playing the same game as I do. And their oppressive sensitivity! You can't barely say a word or twenty about some faggot having abhorent gay relationships with a trash mob instead of playing properly, as they start to oppress you by forcing the acceptance of their lifestyle on you through disclosing that they are homos!

I'm a tolerant guy, but it's just yuck, you know? I don't want to know that a half-naked beast warrior playing next to me may actually, so to say, covet my donkey, or my avatar's donkey, if you get my meaning, all the time while I'm innocently trying to force a female magician char to send me pics of her tits. I mean, being openly gay in my game is, obviously, not worse than Hitler. But it's pretty close!

You're making this sexual orientation exclusive. I'm speaking towards orientation and religious value. Why would anyone want want to listen to someone talk about which God they pray to, or how they have sex. I don't go up to people and talk about my orientation. Maybe if I say that I'm a gay Buddhist, perhaps some would be tolerant of my own views. Except that would only reinforce the double standard that society holds.

People can be whatever they want, but flaunting it like they would a new car isn't cool. Some people (me), just want to enjoy playing a video game with other people, no matter their race, sexuality, creed. I see people as what they are, PEOPLE. I don't see person A as gay person, person B and straight person, person C as hermaphrodite. I try to think outside of the collective. Which only serves to divide people. For exactly the same reason that views are being attacked in this thread in the first place.

Beatnik59 · July 2013

I was one of those idealists at the dawn of online communities who believed, wholeheartedly, that the production of alternative realities and alternative selves would break down the classifications we subscribe to in our daily lives.

The great thing about games, I thought, is that what we can be what we choose to be, not what we actually are. I dreamed of a time when a respectable person can be the villain he never could be, the man could be the woman he wasn't, the ne'er-do-well could play the saint and the high school dropout could play the intellectual. In other words, I truly did believe that we'd form an "alternate reality," together, where what we were in reality didn't matter.

Fast-forward to today, and I have found that this dream was just that: a dream. Because despite our best efforts to create places where we are free to be whatever we want, we can't help but have reality get dragged back into it. From voice chat to free to play, from Christian guilds to LGBT guilds, from the death of roleplay to the growth of "gameyness," these games tend to be all about the people who are playing, and not about the characters they play.

What would be far more interesting, for me, isn't a guild who is composed of Christians out of the game. What would be interesting is a guild of Christians and non-Christians who play Christians in the game. I'm sure that the LGBT guild is important for those who are a part of it. But what would be interesting, and truly in the spirit of online worlds, is to create a guild of gay and straight players who all play LGBT characters.

I truly believe that the best way to understand something you are not is to play as the something, and work to make it believable. How can we ever learn, how can we ever grow, when all we are allowed to be is what we are?

Razeekster · July 2013

As a gay gamer LBGTQ guilds are something I look for in games because I am uncomfortable dealing with straight people that are homophobic and constantly misuse the word "dumb," replacing it instead with the word "gay." That and having to hear "faggot" constantly is not something I enjoy. It happens more than you'd think. I've already dealt with stupid gamers in games telling me that I could like girls if I wanted to. Just read the blog article that I wrote on gamers and the social issues that are within games and then read the comments. Most of them are insulting and I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw them because my article didn't just wholly focus on the issue of homophobic players within games yet that is what most people focused on in the comments.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Razeekster/062013/25241_Why-I-think-developers-gamers-are-some-of-the-worst-people-around

So yeah, I don't mind these types of guilds. They are there to make the unwelcome feel welcome.

Shoko_Lied · July 2013

Originally posted by Razeekster
As a gay gamer LBGTQ guilds are something I look for in games because I am uncomfortable dealing with straight people that are homophobic and constantly misuse the word "dumb," replacing it instead with the word "gay." That and having to hear "faggot" constantly is not something I enjoy. It happens more than you'd think. I've already dealt with stupid gamers in games telling me that I could like girls if I wanted to. Just read the blog article that I wrote on gamers and the social issues that are within games and then read the comments. Most of them are insulting and I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw them because my article didn't just wholly focus on the issue of homophobic players within games yet that is what most people focused on in the comments.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Razeekster/062013/25241_Why-I-think-developers-gamers-are-some-of-the-worst-people-around

So yeah, I don't mind these types of guilds. They are there to make the unwelcome feel welcome.

That's too bad. Homophobia fuels the need to isolate yourself into a segmented community, and your need to segment yourself into an isolated community further creates a contrast between your orientation and their own, increasing awareness and fueling more intolerance.

It's a vicious cycle. I think you are missing out on meeting some people who are more accepting though. Which the interaction between you are them could cause more homophobic people to slowly adjust and open up in further acceptance. I think that would be a much stronger creation of acceptance in the world than simply protesting and calling out for equality.

Grahor · July 2013

Originally posted by denshing
Originally posted by Grahor
Originally posted by denshing
Ban them. I'm tolerant to other peoples beliefs/orientations, but leave it out of video games. People are already so damn sensitive about it in the real world, why bring that same issue to games?

I totally agree here. I'm amazingly tolerant, but I will not tolerate those queers being queers while playing the same game as I do. And their oppressive sensitivity! You can't barely say a word or twenty about some faggot having abhorent gay relationships with a trash mob instead of playing properly, as they start to oppress you by forcing the acceptance of their lifestyle on you through disclosing that they are homos!

I'm a tolerant guy, but it's just yuck, you know? I don't want to know that a half-naked beast warrior playing next to me may actually, so to say, covet my donkey, or my avatar's donkey, if you get my meaning, all the time while I'm innocently trying to force a female magician char to send me pics of her tits. I mean, being openly gay in my game is, obviously, not worse than Hitler. But it's pretty close!

You're making this sexual orientation exclusive. I'm speaking towards orientation and religious value. Why would anyone want want to listen to someone talk about which God they pray to, or how they have sex. I don't go up to people and talk about my orientation. Maybe if I say that I'm gay, it would change what people feel towards my view. Except that would only reinforce the double standard that society holds.

People can be whatever they want, but flaunting it like they would a new car isn't cool. Nice heavily exaggerated satire though. I'm sure it's accurate for some. Some people (me), just want to enjoy playing a video game with other people, no matter their race, sexuality, creed. I see people as what they are, PEOPLE. I think outside of the collective.

*sigh*

People flaunt their heterosexuality and machismo all the time. You just don't notice it, because you are accustomed. For example, I can say, logging off - "I have to go now, or my wife will not let me into bed". You won't have a second thought about it, right? But turn it around, as guy saying it about his husband - and here he is, forcing his homosexuality on you!

People want to talk sometimes, between game sessions, and people want to be themselves comfortable without thinking about offending someone - that's the whole point of exclusive groups: people, religious/gay/etc play together exactly so that they could speak freely between themselves without "flaunting" themselves at you. So that you could play in your own guild without being exposed to uncomfortable, for you, worldviews, orientations and people.

*shrug* as for religious people, it's much better for them to play in very exclusive groups. I always have something to say about things and religions, so you'd better not slip up in my presense, or nobody will ever heard the end of it!

That's, by the way, why I prefer my own exclusive group to play in. So that I would not be annoyed by idiotism of a common man and won't bite their freakin head off on a regular basis.

Wicoa · July 2013

No I do not want these themed guilds. I am pleased to meet all sorts of people from different cross sections of society, it makes playing online all that more worthwhile.

People should not be segregating themselves! Nor should they be banging on about their belief system orientation or religion. We are here to game people not shame others into your way of thinking!

veritas723 · July 2013

it's mainly about establishing a space where your membership can feel safe/comfortable to be themselves, and to a degree tune out the childish negativity of general chat forums, PUGs and the like.

in that regard i have zero problem with any niche guild. essentially it's no different than any guild that forms for any reason.

i think, in a limited way, it is good to keep a handle on guild naming conventions. opening up a can of worms for politically charged guild names can lead to problems.

if you have "knights of christ" do "knights of satan" or "slayers of allah" have a right to exist. if a LGBT group is singled out, is it permissible to have an anti-gay group. Or any directly incendiary group name. It all gets so silly, with the cartoon murder we wantonly participate in. for things like simple acceptance to be an issue.

but sadly. games are hardly as evolved as we might think

Razeekster · July 2013

Originally posted by denshing
Originally posted by Razeekster
As a gay gamer LBGTQ guilds are something I look for in games because I am uncomfortable dealing with straight people that are homophobic and constantly misuse the word "dumb," replacing it instead with the word "gay." That and having to hear "faggot" constantly is not something I enjoy. It happens more than you'd think. I've already dealt with stupid gamers in games telling me that I could like girls if I wanted to. Just read the blog article that I wrote on gamers and the social issues that are within games and then read the comments. Most of them are insulting and I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw them because my article didn't just wholly focus on the issue of homophobic players within games yet that is what most people focused on in the comments.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Razeekster/062013/25241_Why-I-think-developers-gamers-are-some-of-the-worst-people-around

So yeah, I don't mind these types of guilds. They are there to make the unwelcome feel welcome.

That's too bad. Homophobia fuels the need to isolate yourself into a segmented community, and your need to segment yourself into an isolated community further creates a contrast between your orientation and their own, increasing awareness and fueling more intolerance.

It's a vicious cycle.

Hey, I know straight people that aren't homophobic in games too but for some odd reason I've found that more MMO gamers are homophobic than non-MMO players. Maybe I've just had bad luck, but it's one of the reasons why I ignore most of the straight population in online games. I just don't see the need to put myself through that sort of humiliation.

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Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

This have been a good conversation