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Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?

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  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,122Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    While I think it's kind of silly to have gay guilds (do we really need to segregate ourselves in video games too?), I don't see any real issue with the idea. Religious guilds on the other hand are completely inappropriate. When you have children playing these games they should never be exposed to these types of groups, that more often than not, judge and try to assimilate everyone they can (like it or lump it, that's the nature of the beast). Religion: keep it in your home or place of worship. It's that simple.

    So gay guilds are ok but religious guilds are completely inappropriate? Total bullshit, either all are ok (which they are) or none, you have no right to restrict someone from doing something.  And before you say anything else read your statement, look at how offensive it is to a certain group of individuals.

    Thing is, homosexual people usually don't try to convert you to homosexuality, specially not online where they aren't in physical contact with you. Something religions are actively doing since the dawn of time.

    I see his point, even if religious guilds aren't a problem for me... I rather have them somewhere else than in my guild. It's a bit like silly names in MMORPG, it helps knowing which people you don't want to play with. No religious nut tells me how to play my games.

    No but some homosexuals, thankfully few, will try to force you to accept their lifestyle in ways they have no business intruding into. Bad behavior isn't limited to or excluded from any  group. There is no moral high ground for bad behavior. Religious groups are no worse than groups that wear beanies with propellers on their heads.

    Heterosexuals make these kinds of comments in games all the time, but because it's mainstream, no one gives a damn.  How do you think homosexuals feel when heterosexuality is forced upon them on a daily basis, yet we get berated if we make a single comment about our lives that you don't feel comfortable with?

    image
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion

    People like to chat in these games and it's nice to have a safe environment where you will not be attacked or judged by comments that some people find offensive.  Creating a guild for gay members provides that safe environment to be who you are and not be attacked or ridiculed because you let slip that you find some celebrity attractive and you happen to both be men.  I can't tell you how many "regular" guilds I have been in where all kinds of discussions take place, most having nothing to do with the game.  I don't see why people like you would take issue with specialized guilds that allow discussions on topics that won't upset more easily offended people like you.

     

    Obviously you have no idea why these kinds of guilds exist if you think it's about propaganda or an agenda to subvert the game somehow.  In fact, you should be happy they exist, this keeps discussions you obviously don't like in guild chat rather than world chat.

    You should read my other posts in the thread before you come to such hasty conclusions about me. Isn't that what you dislike from other people about you, hasty conclusions, and assumptions? Time to apply your own rules to yourself.

    But apparently, you are also one of those who prefer to judge a book by its cover. Pot, kettle, black, etc...

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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by zymurgeist Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Originally posted by azzamasin Originally posted by Cecropia While I think it's kind of silly to have gay guilds (do we really need to segregate ourselves in video games too?), I don't see any real issue with the idea. Religious guilds on the other hand are completely inappropriate. When you have children playing these games they should never be exposed to these types of groups, that more often than not, judge and try to assimilate everyone they can (like it or lump it, that's the nature of the beast). Religion: keep it in your home or place of worship. It's that simple.
    So gay guilds are ok but religious guilds are completely inappropriate? Total bullshit, either all are ok (which they are) or none, you have no right to restrict someone from doing something.  And before you say anything else read your statement, look at how offensive it is to a certain group of individuals.
    Thing is, homosexual people usually don't try to convert you to homosexuality, specially not online where they aren't in physical contact with you. Something religions are actively doing since the dawn of time. I see his point, even if religious guilds aren't a problem for me... I rather have them somewhere else than in my guild. It's a bit like silly names in MMORPG, it helps knowing which people you don't want to play with. No religious nut tells me how to play my games.
    No but some homosexuals, thankfully few, will try to force you to accept their lifestyle in ways they have no business intruding into. Bad behavior isn't limited to or excluded from any  group. There is no moral high ground for bad behavior. Religious groups are no worse than groups that wear beanies with propellers on their heads.
    Heterosexuals make these kinds of comments in games all the time, but because it's mainstream, no one gives a damn.  How do you think homosexuals feel when heterosexuality is forced upon them on a daily basis, yet we get berated if we make a single comment about our lives that you don't feel comfortable with?


    Be careful with the insults and be careful with feeling like your being insulted here. We've made it a lot farther with this thread than I thought we would, let's not start a war now and blow it.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by Adalwulff If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe.   Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.
    The odds of any guild being created not being mostly white, heterosexual and probably male is pretty close to zero. Creating a 'white, hetero' guild would be pointless. That already exists. There's no need to try and create a separate space. I don't think guilds based on race would be allowed in any game. Race is a different can of worms, one that I don't think any developer wants to open. I'm not sure about an all female and all male guild. Again though, all male guilds already exist, there's no need to try and create a separate space for them. One of the social aspects of guilds is finding people who may share common interests or who may have had the same experiences as the other people in the guild outside of the game. The guild I was in was composed of people who all worked for one company. We shared a common interest. From what I can see, this is the main point of a religious or LBGT guilds. Finding people who share a common interest or experiences when doing so otherwise would be nearly impossible in game.  
     

     

    Wrong, and its exactly the problem!!

    How can you say any guild right now is ALL WHITE OR ALL HETERO? How can you say that for sure, because the odds are that there is a mix of races and genders, and also some gays Im sure.

    So you are wrong, the problem is people like you assuming everything is white and hetero.

    Look, its real simple, you either give everyone the same respect and allow them to congregate by whatever group they want too, or you don't allow anyone to congregate.

    Anything less is racism, sexism or phobia. Period!



    I didn't say all hetero. I said 'mostly'. The odds that a guild will be composed mostly of hetero males by chance is very high. The odds that a guild will be composed of non-hetero mix of males and females is very low. I would say, "Zero", but there's always a chance it could happen. Well, at least in the U.S. Can't really speak for even Western Europe.

    So no, I'm not wrong. Do a little research on your own instead of whatever you used in place of research.

    Also, leave race out of the discussion. Gamers for the most part are non-racial, unless the race includes some sort of stat bonus.

     

     

    Your missing the point, its your perception of what the avg guild is like, is exactly the problem.

    I have been in many guilds and there were always females around, and I am sure there were gays there too, and of course many other races.

    I say race because it does matter, a guild can be by race, by gender, or by religious affiliation. It shouldn't matter.

    If you build your guild based on the perception that most other guilds are full of "hetero white dudes", then you are no better than the jerks who make crappy remarks to females or gays.

    You cannot have it both ways.

     

     

    EDIT for spelling!

    image
  • NaughtyPNaughtyP Edmonton, ABPosts: 793Member

    Whatever happened to the days where people just played the game with others because they enjoyed the same game?

    I like to approach MMO guilds the same way a 5-year old approaches kindergarten... you don't need to know who people are, where they come from or what their belief systems may be because the only rule the teacher has is to PLAY NICE, which should really be the only requirement of any guild worth playing in.

    Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Denton, TXPosts: 3,138Member
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by whisperwynd
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Sorry, but when someone threatens a specific group with physical violence over the net, it's definitely a job for the police. I won't post examples because it would definitely break this forum's rules.

    It's the same thing than if some guy phones the police saying he hid a bomb somewhere. That's no joke, no damned "free speech" matter, no matter if it's true or not.

    I don't feel threatened by some words on the net.

    Your example is on point, but for a different argument. Like yelling "Fire!" is a crowded room. It can cause a riot and hurt people.

    If some nut-job goes into a rant, let em rant. "Dog's don't bite while barking."

     

    For a threat to be a threat in my book it needs to be credible. NoobKillerxXx, saying "I am going to kill you and skull Fu** you." in some random chat deserves a /report, but not much more in my book. Now a mob chanting with pitchforks and torches outside my door is a much more credible threat, and likely deserves my governments attention.....

     

    I believe there is an actual case where someone is in jail because of a death threat in a game. Won't post the link as it irrelevant to the thread. It is criminal however, and should be policed. 

    A Texas teen is in jail for making an off handed remark to a friend on FB, which was seen by an outside observer and misunderstood. He now sits in Jail. It based on gun-fear and not race or anything else. Over-reaching government again.

    The kid was stupid. Hopefully he learned that while he CAN say anything, he shouldn't always. Anyway, he's out of jail now. An anonymous person paid his bail.

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  • KBishopKBishop tracy, CAPosts: 205Member
    Originally posted by aspekx
    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe.

    Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.

     

    once again someone in the absolute majority, a majority which has systematically repressed a group of people for centuries thinks that the same rules apply to them. well they don't. heterophobic would imply the ability to ruin your life, cause you to lose your job, or insist that you cannot marry the person you love, it would include being verbally harrassed for holding hands in public, or at times even physically assaulted. name me the heteros with this experience and we might could talk.

    Thats how equality works.

    If someone can make an all black guild, an all female guild, an all LGBT guild etc, then someone can make an all white, male, straight guild.

    saying that one group cant do it for any reason (even if that reason is that they are a majority) is still exclusion and bigotry.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    I've never joined a Christian only guild, but I respect people's right to do so.  Needless to say I never have been a member of a guild with a name like "Satan's Raiders" or the "666-Mafia"

    You may know that in most MMORPGs, the use of both good and evil religious figures as names is forbidden anyway. No neither satan nor jesus could be used for a guild name anyway. Which is only fair in my opinion.

    You are correct, probably could have come put with a better example such as Hell's Raiders or Evil Incarnate, both names which I have seen in use along with my original example of the 666-Mafia.

    BTW, I don't begrudge anyone the right to use those names, perfectly fine by me, I just won't join a guild that uses them, (and they very likely wouldn't want me to)  just a personal choice.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    While I think it's kind of silly to have gay guilds (do we really need to segregate ourselves in video games too?), I don't see any real issue with the idea. Religious guilds on the other hand are completely inappropriate. When you have children playing these games they should never be exposed to these types of groups, that more often than not, judge and try to assimilate everyone they can (like it or lump it, that's the nature of the beast). Religion: keep it in your home or place of worship. It's that simple.

    So gay guilds are ok but religious guilds are completely inappropriate? Total bullshit, either all are ok (which they are) or none, you have no right to restrict someone from doing something.  And before you say anything else read your statement, look at how offensive it is to a certain group of individuals.

    Thing is, homosexual people usually don't try to convert you to homosexuality, specially not online where they aren't in physical contact with you. Something religions are actively doing since the dawn of time.

    I see his point, even if religious guilds aren't a problem for me... I rather have them somewhere else than in my guild. It's a bit like silly names in MMORPG, it helps knowing which people you don't want to play with. No religious nut tells me how to play my games.

    No but some homosexuals, thankfully few, will try to force you to accept their lifestyle in ways they have no business intruding into. Bad behavior isn't limited to or excluded from any  group. There is no moral high ground for bad behavior. Religious groups are no worse than groups that wear beanies with propellers on their heads.

    I have never seen this happen, unless the other person said something against them. I mean, for them to even know someone doesn't accept their lifestyle, that person would have had to say so.

    Like a homosexual just doesn't go up to someone random and say they need to accept their views. 

    Also, honestly, no one should be openly against homosexuality. If you are, you are just asking for it really.

  • KBishopKBishop tracy, CAPosts: 205Member
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987

    I have never seen this happen, unless the other person said something against them. I mean, for them to even know someone doesn't accept their lifestyle, that person would have had to say so.

    Like a homosexual just doesn't go up to someone random and say they need to accept their views. 

    Gay pride parade.

    Thats a metaphorical and literal "I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it, even if it manages to mess up an entire section of a city for a day"

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Khalathwyr
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by whisperwynd
    Originally posted by Four0Six
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Sorry, but when someone threatens a specific group with physical violence over the net, it's definitely a job for the police. I won't post examples because it would definitely break this forum's rules.

    It's the same thing than if some guy phones the police saying he hid a bomb somewhere. That's no joke, no damned "free speech" matter, no matter if it's true or not.

    I don't feel threatened by some words on the net.

    Your example is on point, but for a different argument. Like yelling "Fire!" is a crowded room. It can cause a riot and hurt people.

    If some nut-job goes into a rant, let em rant. "Dog's don't bite while barking."

     

    For a threat to be a threat in my book it needs to be credible. NoobKillerxXx, saying "I am going to kill you and skull Fu** you." in some random chat deserves a /report, but not much more in my book. Now a mob chanting with pitchforks and torches outside my door is a much more credible threat, and likely deserves my governments attention.....

     

    I believe there is an actual case where someone is in jail because of a death threat in a game. Won't post the link as it irrelevant to the thread. It is criminal however, and should be policed. 

    A Texas teen is in jail for making an off handed remark to a friend on FB, which was seen by an outside observer and misunderstood. He now sits in Jail. It based on gun-fear and not race or anything else. Over-reaching government again.

    The kid was stupid. Hopefully he learned that while he CAN say anything, he shouldn't always. Anyway, he's out of jail now. An anonymous person paid his bail.

    I agree. In this day and age of a public forum, being public in the world wide sense, one should watch ones mouth.

     

     

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KBishop
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987

    I have never seen this happen, unless the other person said something against them. I mean, for them to even know someone doesn't accept their lifestyle, that person would have had to say so.

    Like a homosexual just doesn't go up to someone random and say they need to accept their views. 

    Gay pride parade.

    Thats a metaphorical and literal "I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it, even if it manages to mess up an entire section of a city for a day"

    ROFL, but that isn't telling everyone they have to accept it. Fail to see how you get that from it. There is no forcing involved in that at all.

     

    Edit: Think about it this way, that only happens a couple days out of the year or what ever it is. But homosexuals deal with that type of thing every single day, accept, people actively look to degrade and patronize them and force their opinions down their throat.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    Originally posted by lizardbones  

    Originally posted by Adalwulff If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe.   Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.
    The odds of any guild being created not being mostly white, heterosexual and probably male is pretty close to zero. Creating a 'white, hetero' guild would be pointless. That already exists. There's no need to try and create a separate space. I don't think guilds based on race would be allowed in any game. Race is a different can of worms, one that I don't think any developer wants to open. I'm not sure about an all female and all male guild. Again though, all male guilds already exist, there's no need to try and create a separate space for them. One of the social aspects of guilds is finding people who may share common interests or who may have had the same experiences as the other people in the guild outside of the game. The guild I was in was composed of people who all worked for one company. We shared a common interest. From what I can see, this is the main point of a religious or LBGT guilds. Finding people who share a common interest or experiences when doing so otherwise would be nearly impossible in game.  
     

     

    Wrong, and its exactly the problem!!

    How can you say any guild right now is ALL WHITE OR ALL HETERO? How can you say that for sure, because the odds are that there is a mix of races and genders, and also some gays Im sure.

    So you are wrong, the problem is people like you assuming everything is white and hetero.

    Look, its real simple, you either give everyone the same respect and allow them to congregate by whatever group they want too, or you don't allow anyone to congregate.

    Anything less is racism, sexism or phobia. Period!



    I didn't say all hetero. I said 'mostly'. The odds that a guild will be composed mostly of hetero males by chance is very high. The odds that a guild will be composed of non-hetero mix of males and females is very low. I would say, "Zero", but there's always a chance it could happen. Well, at least in the U.S. Can't really speak for even Western Europe.

    So no, I'm not wrong. Do a little research on your own instead of whatever you used in place of research.

    Also, leave race out of the discussion. Gamers for the most part are non-racial, unless the race includes some sort of stat bonus.

     

    Your missing the point, its your perception of what the avg guild is like, is exactly the problem.

    I have been in many guilds and there were always females around, and I am sure there were gays there too, and of course many other races.

    I say race because it does matter, a guild can be by race, by gender, or by religious affiliation. It shouldn't matter.

    If you build your guild based on the perception that most other guilds are full of "hetero white dudes", then you are no better than the jerks who make crappy remarks to females or gays.

    You cannot have it both ways.

     

    EDIT for spelling!

    You have a lot of trouble with the difference between "all" and "most" and that's why you're having so much trouble here.

    His perception, as well as his reasoning, regarding guild composition is spot on. If most of the players are heterosexual white males, then the odds of any guild being created not being mostly white, heterosexual and probably male members is pretty darn slim unless that guild is specifically looking to attract a different group.

     

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  • KBishopKBishop tracy, CAPosts: 205Member
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by KBishop
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987

    I have never seen this happen, unless the other person said something against them. I mean, for them to even know someone doesn't accept their lifestyle, that person would have had to say so.

    Like a homosexual just doesn't go up to someone random and say they need to accept their views. 

    Gay pride parade.

    Thats a metaphorical and literal "I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it, even if it manages to mess up an entire section of a city for a day"

    ROFL, but that isn't telling everyone they have to accept it. Fail to see how you get that from it. There is no forcing involved in that at all.

     

    Edit: Think about it this way, that only happens a couple days out of the year or what ever it is. But homosexuals deal with that type of thing every single day, accept, people actively look to degrade and patronize them and force their opinions down their throat.

    We don't have to tell anyone to accept us. Heck you even said it yourself:

    "Also, honestly, no one should be openly against homosexuality. If you are, you are just asking for it really."

    We have a parade, and honestly probably one of the stupidest parades out there, and if anyone has a problem with it, even if it is for a legitimate reason that is not related to homosexuality, they get demonized by the greater community for being homophobic.

    I know what homosexuals have to deal with every single day. I am part of the LGBT community. However the community is creating a very negative stigma that makes it incredibly hard for people like me to function, because people expect me to conform into what is the stereotype that much of the LGBT community perpetuates.

    Sexuality is not important. Having a parade that flaunts the fact that you have a sexual difference from the norm is really not helping gays and lesbians lesson the bigotry, because they are continuously reinforcing that being gay or a lesbian does in fact make you different.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by Adalwulff Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by Adalwulff If I were allowed to make an all white, heterosexual guild then maybe.   Anything less is sexist, racist or heterophobic.
    The odds of any guild being created not being mostly white, heterosexual and probably male is pretty close to zero. Creating a 'white, hetero' guild would be pointless. That already exists. There's no need to try and create a separate space. I don't think guilds based on race would be allowed in any game. Race is a different can of worms, one that I don't think any developer wants to open. I'm not sure about an all female and all male guild. Again though, all male guilds already exist, there's no need to try and create a separate space for them. One of the social aspects of guilds is finding people who may share common interests or who may have had the same experiences as the other people in the guild outside of the game. The guild I was in was composed of people who all worked for one company. We shared a common interest. From what I can see, this is the main point of a religious or LBGT guilds. Finding people who share a common interest or experiences when doing so otherwise would be nearly impossible in game.  
        Wrong, and its exactly the problem!! How can you say any guild right now is ALL WHITE OR ALL HETERO? How can you say that for sure, because the odds are that there is a mix of races and genders, and also some gays Im sure. So you are wrong, the problem is people like you assuming everything is white and hetero. Look, its real simple, you either give everyone the same respect and allow them to congregate by whatever group they want too, or you don't allow anyone to congregate. Anything less is racism, sexism or phobia. Period!
    I didn't say all hetero. I said 'mostly'. The odds that a guild will be composed mostly of hetero males by chance is very high. The odds that a guild will be composed of non-hetero mix of males and females is very low. I would say, "Zero", but there's always a chance it could happen. Well, at least in the U.S. Can't really speak for even Western Europe. So no, I'm not wrong. Do a little research on your own instead of whatever you used in place of research. Also, leave race out of the discussion. Gamers for the most part are non-racial, unless the race includes some sort of stat bonus.  
     

    Your missing the point, its your perception of what the avg guild is like, is exactly the problem.

    I have been in many guilds and there were always females around, and I am sure there were gays there too, and of course many other races.

    I say race because it does matter, a guild can be by race, by gender, or by religious affiliation. It shouldn't matter.

    If you build your guild based on the perception that most other guilds are full of "hetero white dudes", then you are no better than the jerks who make crappy remarks to females or gays.

    You cannot have it both ways.

    EDIT for spelling!




    The argument doesn't change if we completely skip to the assumption that there is an even mix of males and females in MMORPGs. There is still a teeny, tiny number of LBGT gamers compared to straight gamers. Any guild is going to be composed of primarily straight people, not LBGT people. The only way a LBGT gamer is going to be in a guild where the majority of people are LBGT is by setting up a guild as a LBGT guild. There's also a "Plus Allies" designation, but the assumption here is that guilds are not exclusive.

    Ditto for people for whom religion plays a central role in their life. There can't be that many people for whom religion plays a central role in their life, and for whom video games and MMORPG are a main hobby. Any guild is going to be composed primarily of people for whom religion does not play a central roll in their life. The only way a religious person is going to find a guild composed primarily of other religious people is by setting a guild up as friendly to that religion.

    Having guilds that are setup as LBGT or Religious doesn't give people something extra, it just brings them on-par with pretty much everyone else. That sounds more like a 'fair' system to me.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied -, WAPosts: 2,081Member Uncommon
    Ban them. I'm tolerant to other peoples beliefs/orientations, but leave it out of video games. People are already so damn sensitive about it in the real world, why bring that same issue to games?
  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,537Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones



    So, what do you think? Do religious guilds ruin your immersion in a game? What about LBGT guilds? Are there even that many guilds that advertise themselves based on a given religion or orientation?
     

     

    On my long list of things i care about.... This is not one. Heck i support LBGT guilds fully. If people feel they need to find a safety-valve from the average day and can get that through a game, good for them.

    Guilds based on religion, i see no problem with that as long as they do not try to preach to the masses.

     

    I tend to find people with leet names and styuff like that a lot more distracting then the above mentioned. Live and let live i guess.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    While I think it's kind of silly to have gay guilds (do we really need to segregate ourselves in video games too?), I don't see any real issue with the idea. Religious guilds on the other hand are completely inappropriate. When you have children playing these games they should never be exposed to these types of groups, that more often than not, judge and try to assimilate everyone they can (like it or lump it, that's the nature of the beast). Religion: keep it in your home or place of worship. It's that simple.

    So gay guilds are ok but religious guilds are completely inappropriate? Total bullshit, either all are ok (which they are) or none, you have no right to restrict someone from doing something.  And before you say anything else read your statement, look at how offensive it is to a certain group of individuals.

    Thing is, homosexual people usually don't try to convert you to homosexuality, specially not online where they aren't in physical contact with you. Something religions are actively doing since the dawn of time.

    I see his point, even if religious guilds aren't a problem for me... I rather have them somewhere else than in my guild. It's a bit like silly names in MMORPG, it helps knowing which people you don't want to play with. No religious nut tells me how to play my games.

    No but some homosexuals, thankfully few, will try to force you to accept their lifestyle in ways they have no business intruding into. Bad behavior isn't limited to or excluded from any  group. There is no moral high ground for bad behavior. Religious groups are no worse than groups that wear beanies with propellers on their heads.

    Heterosexuals make these kinds of comments in games all the time, but because it's mainstream, no one gives a damn.  How do you think homosexuals feel when heterosexuality is forced upon them on a daily basis, yet we get berated if we make a single comment about our lives that you don't feel comfortable with?

     Like what?  I have never seen straight people talking about their bedroom lives unless its to their closest friends but people don't go around talking about their sexual proclivities around total strangers and if they do they are ill mannered, rude and obnoxious.  Gay or Straight it doesn't matter, normal people just don't do these things.  Unless you get pissed off when someone says wait a min I got girl friend agro or something as innocent as that.  If you have a problem with that sort of talk then the problem is you my friend not them.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by KBishop
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by KBishop
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987

    I have never seen this happen, unless the other person said something against them. I mean, for them to even know someone doesn't accept their lifestyle, that person would have had to say so.

    Like a homosexual just doesn't go up to someone random and say they need to accept their views. 

    Gay pride parade.

    Thats a metaphorical and literal "I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it, even if it manages to mess up an entire section of a city for a day"

    ROFL, but that isn't telling everyone they have to accept it. Fail to see how you get that from it. There is no forcing involved in that at all.

     

    Edit: Think about it this way, that only happens a couple days out of the year or what ever it is. But homosexuals deal with that type of thing every single day, accept, people actively look to degrade and patronize them and force their opinions down their throat.

    We don't have to tell anyone to accept us. Heck you even said it yourself:

    "Also, honestly, no one should be openly against homosexuality. If you are, you are just asking for it really."

    We have a parade, and honestly probably one of the stupidest parades out there, and if anyone has a problem with it, even if it is for a legitimate reason that is not related to homosexuality, they get demonized by the greater community for being homophobic.

    I know what homosexuals have to deal with every single day. I am part of the LGBT community. However the community is creating a very negative stigma that makes it incredibly hard for people like me to function, because people expect me to conform into what is the stereotype that much of the LGBT community perpetuates.

    Sexuality is not important. Having a parade that flaunts the fact that you have a sexual difference from the norm is really not helping gays and lesbians lesson the bigotry, because they are continuously reinforcing that being gay or a lesbian does in fact make you different.

    Well, back on subject, I wasn't talking about the stupid parade anyway XD. Was talking about in general.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    I've never joined a Christian only guild, but I respect people's right to do so.  Needless to say I never have been a member of a guild with a name like "Satan's Raiders" or the "666-Mafia"

    You may know that in most MMORPGs, the use of both good and evil religious figures as names is forbidden anyway. No neither satan nor jesus could be used for a guild name anyway. Which is only fair in my opinion.

    You are correct, probably could have come put with a better example such as Hell's Raiders or Evil Incarnate, both names which I have seen in use along with my original example of the 666-Mafia.

    BTW, I don't begrudge anyone the right to use those names, perfectly fine by me, I just won't join a guild that uses them, (and they very likely wouldn't want me to)  just a personal choice.

     

    I wouldn't use "666-Mafia", the 666 is a mistranslation..

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member
    Originally posted by denshing
    Ban them. I'm tolerant to other peoples beliefs/orientations, but leave it out of video games. People are already so damn sensitive about it in the real world, why bring that same issue to games?

    I totally agree here. I'm amazingly tolerant, but I will not tolerate those queers being queers while playing the same game as I do. And their oppressive sensitivity! You can't barely say a word or twenty about some faggot having abhorent gay relationships with a trash mob instead of playing properly, as they start to oppress you by forcing the acceptance of their lifestyle on you through disclosing that they are homos!

     

    I'm a tolerant guy, but it's just yuck, you know? I don't want to know that a half-naked beast warrior playing next to me may actually, so to say, covet my donkey, or my avatar's donkey, if you get my meaning, all the time while I'm innocently trying to force a female magician char to send me pics of her tits. I mean, being openly gay in my game is, obviously, not worse than Hitler. But it's pretty close!

  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd montreal, QCPosts: 1,479Member
    Originally posted by Grahor
    Originally posted by denshing
    Ban them. I'm tolerant to other peoples beliefs/orientations, but leave it out of video games. People are already so damn sensitive about it in the real world, why bring that same issue to games?

    I totally agree here. I'm amazingly tolerant, but I will not tolerate those queers being queers while playing the same game as I do. And their oppressive sensitivity! You can't barely say a word or twenty about some faggot having abhorent gay relationships with a trash mob instead of playing properly, as they start to oppress you by forcing the acceptance of their lifestyle on you through disclosing that they are homos!

     

    I'm a tolerant guy, but it's just yuck, you know? I don't want to know that a half-naked beast warrior playing next to me may actually, so to say, covet my donkey, or my avatar's donkey, if you get my meaning, all the time while I'm innocently trying to force a female magician char to send me pics of her tits. I mean, being openly gay in my game is, obviously, not worse than Hitler. But it's pretty close!

    LOL  Damn, that made me laugh.  image

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied -, WAPosts: 2,081Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Grahor
    Originally posted by denshing
    Ban them. I'm tolerant to other peoples beliefs/orientations, but leave it out of video games. People are already so damn sensitive about it in the real world, why bring that same issue to games?

    I totally agree here. I'm amazingly tolerant, but I will not tolerate those queers being queers while playing the same game as I do. And their oppressive sensitivity! You can't barely say a word or twenty about some faggot having abhorent gay relationships with a trash mob instead of playing properly, as they start to oppress you by forcing the acceptance of their lifestyle on you through disclosing that they are homos!

     

    I'm a tolerant guy, but it's just yuck, you know? I don't want to know that a half-naked beast warrior playing next to me may actually, so to say, covet my donkey, or my avatar's donkey, if you get my meaning, all the time while I'm innocently trying to force a female magician char to send me pics of her tits. I mean, being openly gay in my game is, obviously, not worse than Hitler. But it's pretty close!

    You're making this sexual orientation exclusive. I'm speaking towards orientation and religious value. Why would anyone want want to listen to someone talk about which God they pray to, or how they have sex. I don't go up to people and talk about my orientation. Maybe if I say that I'm a gay Buddhist, perhaps some would be tolerant of my own views. Except that would only reinforce the double standard that society holds.

    People can be whatever they want, but flaunting it like they would a new car isn't cool. Some people (me), just want to enjoy playing a video game with other people, no matter their race, sexuality, creed. I see people as what they are, PEOPLE. I don't see person A as gay person, person B and straight person, person C as hermaphrodite. I try to think outside of the collective. Which only serves to divide people. For exactly the same reason that views are being attacked in this thread in the first place.

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Chicago, ILPosts: 2,238Member Uncommon

    I was one of those idealists at the dawn of online communities who believed, wholeheartedly, that the production of alternative realities and alternative selves would break down the classifications we subscribe to in our daily lives.

    The great thing about games, I thought, is that what we can be what we choose to be, not what we actually are.  I dreamed of a time when a respectable person can be the villain he never could be, the man could be the woman he wasn't, the ne'er-do-well could play the saint and the high school dropout could play the intellectual.  In other words, I truly did believe that we'd form an "alternate reality," together, where what we were in reality didn't matter.

    Fast-forward to today, and I have found that this dream was just that: a dream.  Because despite our best efforts to create places where we are free to be whatever we want, we can't help but have reality get dragged back into it.  From voice chat to free to play, from Christian guilds to LGBT guilds, from the death of roleplay to the growth of "gameyness," these games tend to be all about the people who are playing, and not about the characters they play.

     

    What would be far more interesting, for me, isn't a guild who is composed of Christians out of the game.  What would be interesting is a guild of Christians and non-Christians who play Christians in the game.  I'm sure that the LGBT guild is important for those who are a part of it.  But what would be interesting, and truly in the spirit of online worlds, is to create a guild of gay and straight players who all play LGBT characters.

    I truly believe that the best way to understand something you are not is to play as the something, and work to make it believable.  How can we ever learn, how can we ever grow, when all we are allowed to be is what we are?

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • RazeeksterRazeekster Solon, MEPosts: 2,201Member Uncommon

    As a gay gamer LBGTQ guilds are something I look for in games because I am uncomfortable dealing with straight people that are homophobic and constantly misuse the word "dumb," replacing it instead with the word "gay." That and having to hear "faggot" constantly is not something I enjoy. It happens more than you'd think. I've already dealt with stupid gamers in games telling me that I could like girls if I wanted to. Just read the blog article that I wrote on gamers and the social issues that are within games and then read the comments. Most of them are insulting and I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw them because my article didn't just wholly focus on the issue of homophobic players within games yet that is what most people focused on in the comments.

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Razeekster/062013/25241_Why-I-think-developers-gamers-are-some-of-the-worst-people-around

     

    So yeah, I don't mind these types of guilds. They are there to make the unwelcome feel welcome.

    Smile

This discussion has been closed.