I do think it's possible to have a smaller, dense world like Rift, but still have content that isn't necessary to the player's progression. It doesn't have to be wide open like Fallout 3 or Fallen Earth, just something for players to explore to enhance the feeling of being in a 'world' instead of a 'game'. Though, I would wonder how many people playing Rift would actually want that.
I don't like empty worlds. I feel like i am wasting precious time.
Something like Deus Ex Human Evolution (the town levels) is a good compromise. Big enough to have variation and variety but dense enough so that you are not wandering aimlessly and you can get something interesting to happen within 1 min.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by lizardbonesI do think it's possible to have a smaller, dense world like Rift, but still have content that isn't necessary to the player's progression. It doesn't have to be wide open like Fallout 3 or Fallen Earth, just something for players to explore to enhance the feeling of being in a 'world' instead of a 'game'. Though, I would wonder how many people playing Rift would actually want that.
I don't like empty worlds. I feel like i am wasting precious time.
Something like Deus Ex Human Evolution (the town levels) is a good compromise. Big enough to have variation and variety but dense enough so that you are not wandering aimlessly and you can get something interesting to happen within 1 min.
If you're my daughter, playing DEHE involves depopulating the entire game and throwing all the bodies into interesting piles.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I have never experienced a virtual world feeling in an MMO, its always so bland and dead...event in packed player cities, something is lifeless. The only recent games that really feel immersive like virtual worlds for me are Skyrim, and Grand Theft Auto 4...especially GTA4. Sometimes I just catch a cab in GTA4 to watch the world from first person in the cab, and I always think of how alive the world is.
I think its the lack of the small things that make MMOs seem lifeless, that Skyrim and GTA4 have, the little details that make a place seem inhabited. Trash, traffic,carvings, realistic weather patterns, truer day night cycles, NPCs going about their days instead of milling around (Not relying on bunny hopping, naked dancing players for this),
I really look forward to the first AAA Oculus Rift MMO that pulls off the immersive details, the little things, while being in first person in these amazing virtual settings.
Edit: I also wish game devs focused less on world size and more on world quality, I could care less if a World was 1/4 the size of Azeroth but has the detail of a single player game if it comes down to man hours designing it.
Originally posted by krage I have never experienced a virtual world feeling in an MMO, its always so bland and dead...event in packed player cities, something is lifeless. The only recent games that really feel immersive like virtual worlds for me are Skyrim, and Grand Theft Auto 4...especially GTA4. Sometimes I just catch a cab in GTA4 to watch the world from first person in the cab, and I always think of how alive the world is.Cab Ride example, 2 min video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv1xbxBovJ4I think its the small things that make MMOs seem lifeless, that Skyrim and GTA4 have, the little details that make a place seem inhabited. Trash, traffic,carvings, realistic weather patterns, truer day night cycles, NPCs going about their days instead of milling around (Not relying on bunny hopping, naked dancing players for this), I really look forward to the first AAA Oculus Rift MMO that pulls off the immersive details, the little things, while being in first person in these amazing virtual settings.
I haven't felt like I was in a virtual world since EQ1 (before SOE broke the boats) and Planetside 1. Nowadays everything just seems off and I can't explain why, although I think it is a combination of immersion-breaking features. Death of one thousand cuts.
BTW, I bought GTA4 six months ago but haven't played it, but now I will! Thanks!
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by krage I have never experienced a virtual world feeling in an MMO, its always so bland and dead...event in packed player cities, something is lifeless. The only recent games that really feel immersive like virtual worlds for me are Skyrim, and Grand Theft Auto 4...especially GTA4. Sometimes I just catch a cab in GTA4 to watch the world from first person in the cab, and I always think of how alive the world is.
I think its the small things that make MMOs seem lifeless, that Skyrim and GTA4 have, the little details that make a place seem inhabited. Trash, traffic,carvings, realistic weather patterns, truer day night cycles, NPCs going about their days instead of milling around (Not relying on bunny hopping, naked dancing players for this),
I really look forward to the first AAA Oculus Rift MMO that pulls off the immersive details, the little things, while being in first person in these amazing virtual settings.
I haven't felt like I was in a virtual world since EQ1 (before SOE broke the boats) and Planetside 1. Nowadays everything just seems off and I can't explain why, although I think it is a combination of immersion-breaking features. Death of one thousand cuts.
BTW, I bought GTA4 six months ago but haven't played it, but now I will! Thanks!
This video shows GTA with realism mods, has links in the video description. This would be great for the Oculus Rift...enjoy GTA4
Originally posted by lizardbonesI do think it's possible to have a smaller, dense world like Rift, but still have content that isn't necessary to the player's progression. It doesn't have to be wide open like Fallout 3 or Fallen Earth, just something for players to explore to enhance the feeling of being in a 'world' instead of a 'game'. Though, I would wonder how many people playing Rift would actually want that.
I don't like empty worlds. I feel like i am wasting precious time.
Something like Deus Ex Human Evolution (the town levels) is a good compromise. Big enough to have variation and variety but dense enough so that you are not wandering aimlessly and you can get something interesting to happen within 1 min.
If you're my daughter, playing DEHE involves depopulating the entire game and throwing all the bodies into interesting piles.
That is the reason why DEHE (and similar games like Dishonor) is so good. I would call it concentrated coolness. You can choose what to do, and interesting things and situations happen constantly.
Personally i like either stealth + non-lethal (or lethal) take-down, and hacking using turret/robots to kill. I know some like to play DEHE like a FPS and go in with gun blazing. You can even finish your objective by avoiding everything.
No MMOs has such rich tactical resolution gameplay. The best is like ARPGs with good combat, but never good amount of stealth/hacking gameplay (which is also a kind of conflict resolution).
for me both Vanguard and Ryzom feel very "virtual world".
I love how in vanguard I can travel and not see anything and then suddenly have a point of interest in the distance.
In Ryzom you hear the wind, see groups of beasts roaming around, some coming up to you and just checking you out, very few qusets you just "find things to do".
When you are out in the wilderness you feel out in the wilderness.
I agree on both games plus i would throw WurmOnline into the mix and even Darkfall, EQ and Age Of Wulin.
But the winner is Atys(Ryzom) by a long mile, the game has changing seasons and weather. Weather effects include rain, snow, and wind. Tied to the season and weather changes are the movements of animals and availability of harvestable materials.
Animal migration are also second to none.
For example, a certain type of sap may only be harvested during spring rains and be unattainable during other seasons or weather conditions. Weather conditions can change minute by minute. Each game season (spring, summer, fall, and winter) lasts four real time days.
Come on, what MMO can even come close to Ryzoms dynamic world.
Well.. interesting indeed. But why did Ryzom failed? I never played or tried it.. and i don't even know why. Another buggy mess as so many indy sandbox mmorpgs?
It's landscape seamless is just huuuge. It got nearly no invisible walls or restrictions of any kind. You can walk to whereever you want to. The landscape looks quite realistic too, and there are some stretches with little stuff to see, which makes it more immersive, than something like Rift, where one quest hub is 10metres away from the next, with the NPCs behaving as if there'd be a hundred miles between them. Also it got a single world and server for all players, which is neat too. Also the viewing distance is great. The stuff just doesn't vanish in fog after 50 metres.
So you need to walk for ages without seeing anything interesting?
I would much rather have something fun to do every 10 meters.
Huge does not equate more fun.
Depends on what you consider interesting.
I like riding or biking through Fallen Earth, looking at times on the map whether I'm still in the right direction, enjoy the music and the graphics, while I'm on the way to my destination. Maybe I'll find some strange hut or other interesting thing on the way. Or I might wonder what's beyond the one hill to the east, and check that out. That's what's fun to me. And I like that more than what it's like in most other MMORPGs. You take 20 seconds to travel from one major town to the next (or 1 second with some teleport system). And if you travel there manually, you get attacked every 2 seconds by some stupid mob.
The most extreme example is Rift, where there are always mobs everywhere around you, constantly. If you'd lie down anywhere, you wouldn't touch the ground, because there'd be half a dozen mobs under you.
But everybody got different preferences.
That is fun? I thought people want challenges in their games.
Music & graphics? If i want to enjoy that, i watch a movie.
If i wonder what is beyond one hill .. look it up on the web. I don't want to spend 10 min (heck even 5) walking on the same terrain just to find out.
If there is something interesting, pop it up and let's get on with it.
It's landscape seamless is just huuuge. It got nearly no invisible walls or restrictions of any kind. You can walk to whereever you want to. The landscape looks quite realistic too, and there are some stretches with little stuff to see, which makes it more immersive, than something like Rift, where one quest hub is 10metres away from the next, with the NPCs behaving as if there'd be a hundred miles between them. Also it got a single world and server for all players, which is neat too. Also the viewing distance is great. The stuff just doesn't vanish in fog after 50 metres.
So you need to walk for ages without seeing anything interesting?
I would much rather have something fun to do every 10 meters.
Huge does not equate more fun.
Depends on what you consider interesting.
I like riding or biking through Fallen Earth, looking at times on the map whether I'm still in the right direction, enjoy the music and the graphics, while I'm on the way to my destination. Maybe I'll find some strange hut or other interesting thing on the way. Or I might wonder what's beyond the one hill to the east, and check that out. That's what's fun to me. And I like that more than what it's like in most other MMORPGs. You take 20 seconds to travel from one major town to the next (or 1 second with some teleport system). And if you travel there manually, you get attacked every 2 seconds by some stupid mob.
The most extreme example is Rift, where there are always mobs everywhere around you, constantly. If you'd lie down anywhere, you wouldn't touch the ground, because there'd be half a dozen mobs under you.
But everybody got different preferences.
That is fun? I thought people want challenges in their games.
Music & graphics? If i want to enjoy that, i watch a movie.
If i wonder what is beyond one hill .. look it up on the web. I don't want to spend 10 min (heck even 5) walking on the same terrain just to find out.
If there is something interesting, pop it up and let's get on with it.
^ colloquially called a ADHD sufferer.
wow .. wanting something interesting is ADHD? I don't apologize for my preference. You may think only your preference is valid.
Thank god we have a market that don't think like that.
It's landscape seamless is just huuuge. It got nearly no invisible walls or restrictions of any kind. You can walk to whereever you want to. The landscape looks quite realistic too, and there are some stretches with little stuff to see, which makes it more immersive, than something like Rift, where one quest hub is 10metres away from the next, with the NPCs behaving as if there'd be a hundred miles between them. Also it got a single world and server for all players, which is neat too. Also the viewing distance is great. The stuff just doesn't vanish in fog after 50 metres.
So you need to walk for ages without seeing anything interesting?
I would much rather have something fun to do every 10 meters.
Huge does not equate more fun.
Depends on what you consider interesting.
I like riding or biking through Fallen Earth, looking at times on the map whether I'm still in the right direction, enjoy the music and the graphics, while I'm on the way to my destination. Maybe I'll find some strange hut or other interesting thing on the way. Or I might wonder what's beyond the one hill to the east, and check that out. That's what's fun to me. And I like that more than what it's like in most other MMORPGs. You take 20 seconds to travel from one major town to the next (or 1 second with some teleport system). And if you travel there manually, you get attacked every 2 seconds by some stupid mob.
The most extreme example is Rift, where there are always mobs everywhere around you, constantly. If you'd lie down anywhere, you wouldn't touch the ground, because there'd be half a dozen mobs under you.
But everybody got different preferences.
That is fun? I thought people want challenges in their games.
Music & graphics? If i want to enjoy that, i watch a movie.
If i wonder what is beyond one hill .. look it up on the web. I don't want to spend 10 min (heck even 5) walking on the same terrain just to find out.
If there is something interesting, pop it up and let's get on with it.
^ colloquially called a ADHD sufferer.
wow .. wanting something interesting is ADHD? I don't apologize for my preference. You may think only your preference is valid.
Thank god we have a market that don't think like that.
You should thank negligent parenting and crappier school systems, not God, I doubt God ever intended humans to live in sensory overload situations.
You should thank negligent parenting and crappier school systems, not God, I doubt God ever intended humans to live in sensory overload situations.
You don't think God would like us to have some fun?
Key word some , the best games make you work for your fun, that's why there's such a push for more challenging games and why a series of games which prided itself on arcane control schemes and absurd difficulty is one of the biggest successes in recent memory (Demon Souls series).
You should thank negligent parenting and crappier school systems, not God, I doubt God ever intended humans to live in sensory overload situations.
You don't think God would like us to have some fun?
Key word some , the best games make you work for your fun, that's why there's such a push for more challenging games and why a series of games which prided itself on arcane control schemes and absurd difficulty is one of the biggest successes in recent memory (Demon Souls series).
Yes, challenge for fun. Not walk 10 min without anything happening for fun. That is no challenge, trivial and a chore.
You should thank negligent parenting and crappier school systems, not God, I doubt God ever intended humans to live in sensory overload situations.
You don't think God would like us to have some fun?
Key word some , the best games make you work for your fun, that's why there's such a push for more challenging games and why a series of games which prided itself on arcane control schemes and absurd difficulty is one of the biggest successes in recent memory (Demon Souls series).
Yes, challenge for fun. Not walk 10 min without anything happening for fun. That is no challenge, trivial and a chore.
Some people like the sights or just plain exploring. Some games are even indicated to play by exploring em (either actually going off the main storyline to experience the world or exploring alternate options within the mechanics, Spec Ops the Line is a bloody brilliant game with hidden choices during the gameplay you can "unlock" based on how imaginative you are).
Yes, challenge for fun. Not walk 10 min without anything happening for fun. That is no challenge, trivial and a chore.
Some people like the sights or just plain exploring. Some games are even indicated to play by exploring em (either actually going off the main storyline to experience the world or exploring alternate options within the mechanics, Spec Ops the Line is a bloody brilliant game with hidden choices during the gameplay you can "unlock" based on how imaginative you are).
Some may want boring virtual walks on the same terrain for 10 min. I don't. We are not talking about interesting gameplay options here.
Spec Ops The line is a great game (i finished it), and it never requires you to walk 10 min doing nothing.
Many games have multiple options for gameplay (Deus Ex, DIshonor ...) None requires you to walk 10 min doing nothing.
BTW, these games are much better than MMOs, in terms of fun for me.
for me both Vanguard and Ryzom feel very "virtual world".
I love how in vanguard I can travel and not see anything and then suddenly have a point of interest in the distance.
In Ryzom you hear the wind, see groups of beasts roaming around, some coming up to you and just checking you out, very few qusets you just "find things to do".
When you are out in the wilderness you feel out in the wilderness.
I agree on both games plus i would throw WurmOnline into the mix and even Darkfall, EQ and Age Of Wulin.
But the winner is Atys(Ryzom) by a long mile, the game has changing seasons and weather. Weather effects include rain, snow, and wind. Tied to the season and weather changes are the movements of animals and availability of harvestable materials.
Animal migration are also second to none.
For example, a certain type of sap may only be harvested during spring rains and be unattainable during other seasons or weather conditions. Weather conditions can change minute by minute. Each game season (spring, summer, fall, and winter) lasts four real time days.
Come on, what MMO can even come close to Ryzoms dynamic world.
Well.. interesting indeed. But why did Ryzom failed? I never played or tried it.. and i don't even know why. Another buggy mess as so many indy sandbox mmorpgs?
Bad open beta/release, servers were crashing and burning and the game was all around buggy. Never got a lot of publicity afterwards.
iirc both the original developers and gameforge had some debt/management issues that forced them to shut down and sell the game to someone else multiple times.
After that, the main issue I saw new players have was showing up on the mainland and not being able to progress as fast/safely as they'd like through soloing, not liking the lack of direction through questing that defined a large part of the noobie island, and of course the small playerbase.
Yes, challenge for fun. Not walk 10 min without anything happening for fun. That is no challenge, trivial and a chore.
Some people like the sights or just plain exploring. Some games are even indicated to play by exploring em (either actually going off the main storyline to experience the world or exploring alternate options within the mechanics, Spec Ops the Line is a bloody brilliant game with hidden choices during the gameplay you can "unlock" based on how imaginative you are).
Some may want boring virtual walks on the same terrain for 10 min. I don't. We are not talking about interesting gameplay options here.
Spec Ops The line is a great game (i finished it), and it never requires you to walk 10 min doing nothing.
Many games have multiple options for gameplay (Deus Ex, DIshonor ...) None requires you to walk 10 min doing nothing.
BTW, these games are much better than MMOs, in terms of fun for me.
That's where we differ to be honest: I prefer slower paced games with more emphasis on player freedom, don't get me wrong I like from time to time to just unplug, buy a FPS I know has good solid gameplay and a solid story but doesn't require much actual thought and just blow through it in a weekend but that's only happened twice thus far in around 6 years :P (Area 51 back in 07 and Deadspace 3 near its launch).
Yes, challenge for fun. Not walk 10 min without anything happening for fun. That is no challenge, trivial and a chore.
Some people like the sights or just plain exploring. Some games are even indicated to play by exploring em (either actually going off the main storyline to experience the world or exploring alternate options within the mechanics, Spec Ops the Line is a bloody brilliant game with hidden choices during the gameplay you can "unlock" based on how imaginative you are).
Some may want boring virtual walks on the same terrain for 10 min. I don't. We are not talking about interesting gameplay options here.
Spec Ops The line is a great game (i finished it), and it never requires you to walk 10 min doing nothing.
Many games have multiple options for gameplay (Deus Ex, DIshonor ...) None requires you to walk 10 min doing nothing.
BTW, these games are much better than MMOs, in terms of fun for me.
That's where we differ to be honest: I prefer slower paced games with more emphasis on player freedom, don't get me wrong I like from time to time to just unplug, buy a FPS I know has good solid gameplay and a solid story but doesn't require much actual thought and just blow through it in a weekend but that's only happened twice thus far in around 6 years :P (Area 51 back in 07 and Deadspace 3 near its launch).
Those two things are not always hand in hand.
Take Deus Ex or Dishonor. It is NOT slow pace (in the sense of down-time, or time that you have nothing to do) but certainly it has a lot of player freedom.
I want games that have freedom (of accomplishing my task, and not the freedom to see a big uninteresting empty world) and fast pace. And the good news is that there are many.
Plus, fast pace is an option. You can always slow down on your own. You don't have to go kill the mob, you can wander around and sit down if you want. Just don't require me to walk 10 min before seeing something interesting. That is a game i would not play.
You should thank negligent parenting and crappier school systems, not God, I doubt God ever intended humans to live in sensory overload situations.
You don't think God would like us to have some fun?
Since when your fun is THE fun?
BTW just fools curiosity: Why you "waste" your time with MMOs and don't play third person carbon copy console titles with "constant and concentrated fun"? Or probably some fun D3? :P
Star Wars Galaxies wins hands down never experienced a virtual universe like it. Being able to fly right up into space or pay some credits and board over to another planet. Hardly any loading screens and the way they had caves and bunkers set out into the land like that... amazing.
Not to forget all the player Citys + player mining operations, an easy bazaar social meeting places like all the cantinas and the entertainment you get there.
SWG pre CU may no longer exist but at least there is still people running quality private servers, swgemu.
Comments
Not for me.
First true MMO for me .. UO .. left disgusted of the ganking and repeated clicking on a stone to mine ... before the beta ends.
Next one, EQ. Got sick of the horrible camping in a year (and it lasted a year, i supposed that is because of a lack of alternative) and quit.
You can say the first "hate" i never forget.
I don't like empty worlds. I feel like i am wasting precious time.
Something like Deus Ex Human Evolution (the town levels) is a good compromise. Big enough to have variation and variety but dense enough so that you are not wandering aimlessly and you can get something interesting to happen within 1 min.
Something like Deus Ex Human Evolution (the town levels) is a good compromise. Big enough to have variation and variety but dense enough so that you are not wandering aimlessly and you can get something interesting to happen within 1 min.
If you're my daughter, playing DEHE involves depopulating the entire game and throwing all the bodies into interesting piles.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I have never experienced a virtual world feeling in an MMO, its always so bland and dead...event in packed player cities, something is lifeless. The only recent games that really feel immersive like virtual worlds for me are Skyrim, and Grand Theft Auto 4...especially GTA4. Sometimes I just catch a cab in GTA4 to watch the world from first person in the cab, and I always think of how alive the world is.
Cab Ride example, 2 min video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv1xbxBovJ4
I think its the lack of the small things that make MMOs seem lifeless, that Skyrim and GTA4 have, the little details that make a place seem inhabited. Trash, traffic,carvings, realistic weather patterns, truer day night cycles, NPCs going about their days instead of milling around (Not relying on bunny hopping, naked dancing players for this),
I really look forward to the first AAA Oculus Rift MMO that pulls off the immersive details, the little things, while being in first person in these amazing virtual settings.
Edit: I also wish game devs focused less on world size and more on world quality, I could care less if a World was 1/4 the size of Azeroth but has the detail of a single player game if it comes down to man hours designing it.
I haven't felt like I was in a virtual world since EQ1 (before SOE broke the boats) and Planetside 1. Nowadays everything just seems off and I can't explain why, although I think it is a combination of immersion-breaking features. Death of one thousand cuts.
BTW, I bought GTA4 six months ago but haven't played it, but now I will! Thanks!
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
This video shows GTA with realism mods, has links in the video description. This would be great for the Oculus Rift...enjoy GTA4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bii3RN-FkY4
That is the reason why DEHE (and similar games like Dishonor) is so good. I would call it concentrated coolness. You can choose what to do, and interesting things and situations happen constantly.
Personally i like either stealth + non-lethal (or lethal) take-down, and hacking using turret/robots to kill. I know some like to play DEHE like a FPS and go in with gun blazing. You can even finish your objective by avoiding everything.
No MMOs has such rich tactical resolution gameplay. The best is like ARPGs with good combat, but never good amount of stealth/hacking gameplay (which is also a kind of conflict resolution).
Well.. interesting indeed. But why did Ryzom failed? I never played or tried it.. and i don't even know why. Another buggy mess as so many indy sandbox mmorpgs?
^ colloquially called a ADHD sufferer.
wow .. wanting something interesting is ADHD? I don't apologize for my preference. You may think only your preference is valid.
Thank god we have a market that don't think like that.
You should thank negligent parenting and crappier school systems, not God, I doubt God ever intended humans to live in sensory overload situations.
You don't think God would like us to have some fun?
Key word some , the best games make you work for your fun, that's why there's such a push for more challenging games and why a series of games which prided itself on arcane control schemes and absurd difficulty is one of the biggest successes in recent memory (Demon Souls series).
Yes, challenge for fun. Not walk 10 min without anything happening for fun. That is no challenge, trivial and a chore.
Some people like the sights or just plain exploring. Some games are even indicated to play by exploring em (either actually going off the main storyline to experience the world or exploring alternate options within the mechanics, Spec Ops the Line is a bloody brilliant game with hidden choices during the gameplay you can "unlock" based on how imaginative you are).
Some may want boring virtual walks on the same terrain for 10 min. I don't. We are not talking about interesting gameplay options here.
Spec Ops The line is a great game (i finished it), and it never requires you to walk 10 min doing nothing.
Many games have multiple options for gameplay (Deus Ex, DIshonor ...) None requires you to walk 10 min doing nothing.
BTW, these games are much better than MMOs, in terms of fun for me.
Bad open beta/release, servers were crashing and burning and the game was all around buggy. Never got a lot of publicity afterwards.
iirc both the original developers and gameforge had some debt/management issues that forced them to shut down and sell the game to someone else multiple times.
After that, the main issue I saw new players have was showing up on the mainland and not being able to progress as fast/safely as they'd like through soloing, not liking the lack of direction through questing that defined a large part of the noobie island, and of course the small playerbase.
That's where we differ to be honest: I prefer slower paced games with more emphasis on player freedom, don't get me wrong I like from time to time to just unplug, buy a FPS I know has good solid gameplay and a solid story but doesn't require much actual thought and just blow through it in a weekend but that's only happened twice thus far in around 6 years :P (Area 51 back in 07 and Deadspace 3 near its launch).
Those two things are not always hand in hand.
Take Deus Ex or Dishonor. It is NOT slow pace (in the sense of down-time, or time that you have nothing to do) but certainly it has a lot of player freedom.
I want games that have freedom (of accomplishing my task, and not the freedom to see a big uninteresting empty world) and fast pace. And the good news is that there are many.
Plus, fast pace is an option. You can always slow down on your own. You don't have to go kill the mob, you can wander around and sit down if you want. Just don't require me to walk 10 min before seeing something interesting. That is a game i would not play.
Since when your fun is THE fun?
BTW just fools curiosity: Why you "waste" your time with MMOs and don't play third person carbon copy console titles with "constant and concentrated fun"? Or probably some fun D3? :PThanks,
Mike
Working on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
Star Wars Galaxies wins hands down never experienced a virtual universe like it. Being able to fly right up into space or pay some credits and board over to another planet. Hardly any loading screens and the way they had caves and bunkers set out into the land like that... amazing.
Not to forget all the player Citys + player mining operations, an easy bazaar social meeting places like all the cantinas and the entertainment you get there.
SWG pre CU may no longer exist but at least there is still people running quality private servers, swgemu.
It does exist
That's easy
EQ, UO, SWG.......................coincidentally all pre-WoW games
Developers ignored this kind of games for way too long, but it looks like SoE finally got it (hopefully).