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Kind of a can't-win topic, isn't it?
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Originally posted by DamonVile I think those guilds are a good idea. It keeps all the people who can't leave that stuff at the door away from everyone that can.
I think that's the point, none of us can really leave all the stuff that we are "at the door". Do we really want to? While still being respectful of others and our community do we really want to have to shutter who we are and walk on eggshells so others aren't offended?
Some people of every type like to blab everything about what they are and do. I think most of us just don't want to have to filter who we are or watch our every word. There is a big difference between the two in my opinion.
Originally posted by Foomerang Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard Originally posted by immodium What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"
Games are not tools for religious, political or sexual propaganda, and anyone trying to use them as such should get a well deserved ban. I don't play game to have to endure the bullshit that is already plaguing "real world".
Yet you are constantly involving your own views and don't even realize it. Of course when someone has a different view than your own it becomes a "plague" on your sense of reality. That is, unfortunately, how our society is hardwired in this day and age.
Not really as when these topics are brought up in public chats boths views regarding the issue are voiced.
I think guilds whom run a charter and enforce common decency and freedom on personal matters would have a greater contribution than anything exclusive.
Why shield yourself off or try to create an environment with like minded ones. To me that sounds boring and won't get you much further as a person or in life. Tho I'd also assume that wouldn't be the easiest road to chose.
Ah well live and let live, I just don't see the need or benefit in it.
Originally posted by immodium What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"
It's not so much that many of them think that they need to do this as you say.
It's more that most guilds have a voice chat and even in the ones they don't you are going to have, and it is what it is, some white folks (and you all make up the majority of gamers) who think they are funny by making jokes about people of color, homosexuals or any other group.
That's why many of those guilds exists is to enjoy the game and to get away from those, to them, hurtful "jokes" and judgements.
As far as the Christian (and now other religious) guilds, I don't agree that it's for those reasons above. They are exclusive, typically wanting to avoid the others in the above mentioned groups for a handful of reasons. There may be a tiny few that truly organize for gaming fellowship, but they aren't anywhere near the norm.
Those are my thoughts, anyway.
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Originally posted by lizardbones This article on Massively: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/18/ask-massively-taboo-topics/ talks about the subject of "themed" guilds, in particular, guilds with a religious focus or a LGBT focus. Really, the guild is focused on gaming, but you know what I mean. It has never occurred to me to be offended or really even care about this type of thing. If people want a guild that's friendly towards a particular religion or orientation, as long as they aren't militant, exclusive based on that religion or orientation and as long as they have good taste in public chat, I don't feel like i need to spend a lot of time thinking about it. Until I read the article. It seems awhile back that Blizzard was going to ban guilds based on a LBGT charter, but backlash from the world or the gaming community caused them to reverse the decision quickly. This honestly surprises me. Given the nature of WoW's chat channels, I'm kind of surprised they would even consider that stance. So, what do you think? Do religious guilds ruin your immersion in a game? What about LBGT guilds? Are there even that many guilds that advertise themselves based on a given religion or orientation? Also, I realize this is a topic that could go south quickly, but in the spirit of conversation, try to avoid talking about specific religions or people, and focus on guilds. If things do go pear shaped, my apologies.
I am a born again Christian... I find my self staying away from Guilds in games because I don't want to be a part of the Adult related and/or kinds of Language you could find in Guilds... I've often thought about starting a Guild for other Christians just to give us a place where we can discuss the issues that concern us while gaming together... Has nothing to do with propaganda or anything else just about how I personally choose to spend my time and the types of Conversation I'm willing to be involved in.
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Originally posted by stayBlindWould anyone have a problem with an exclusively NON-LBGT guild?
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Originally posted by Four0Six [...] Really all a LGBT guild wants is to not hear "fag" in VOIP. Just as the religious guild doesn't want to hear cussing. They both are trying to avoid immature A-Holes that are going to stir up trouble in the guild. How about we stop being offended because some group we didn't want to be involved with in the first place doesn't want us? Besides, if you allow guilds to be so labeled, it frees up the Moderators to keep "hot-button" issues out of general.
I can't help but think there's a hint of irony in your post there.
As much as I might want to find like minded people and avoid the rest, you want to do the same. In the end it is only a matter of who is trying to portray themselves as a victim. Discrimination goes both ways: You might think I am a dirty infidel, and I might think you're just bat shit crazy. Or I don't want to hear your proselytizing and you might not hear me criticizing your faith. I am talking hypothetical of course.
Point is, games are the wrong place to bring up such things. I am just not that interested. And if you start opening up, you're just asking to be trolled. Don't do it.
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Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by DamonVile I think those guilds are a good idea. It keeps all the people who can't leave that stuff at the door away from everyone that can.
I think we agree ? People are far more tolerant of people who just blab about stuff over people who ...inflict their lifestyle on others. Personally I see a big difference between "my partner and I just adopted our first child and I'm so excited " and " hey guys you've been going on about XXXX for an hr now, would you mind giving it a rest I'm trying to enjoy killing these priests" <--ha!
The first example should really be able to fit into any guild....the second should probably find a guild that has other people who care about whatever xxxx happens to be.
i dont have a problem with them playing games. But i have found that LGBT usually dont make dramas about those topics in game, religious players tend to keep talking about it and i get fed up so i dont join their guilds with religious drama. But they have every right that i have to play the game.
People gather in guilds because of same interests.
If you should deny people community, then the game will fail.
I only say NAY to hardcore & grindmonger guilds, as they are a profanity to life itself!!!
The idea that we ignore the topics that end up having the most day to day impact on our lives is nonsensical and a mechanism designed by people either too insecure or too uneducated to discuss them in a civil, logical, manner.
I agree this is the kind of stuff that destroys gameplay, and destroys guilds.
the way I see it don't ask don't tell. If somebody has a friend and they want to keep that info to themselves then that is fine, but it has no place in out chat, or in guild chat, unless everybody in that guild is of a certain mindset.
These kind of discussions in our guild chat gets you benched from raid first, if it continues and folks complain your out.
That about sums up my feelings on the issue.
I normally am pretty firm about "leave the real world agendas out of the game please", but I can sympathize that there are always a few issues where restricting a real world attribute from the game feels like an agenda in itself.
So I say just leave me out of the decision. I don't intend to be a problem either way.
These kind of discussions in our guild chat gets you benched from raid first, if it continues and folks complain your out.
Roleplay sentric guilds like yours, where you are kicked if you dont act in a certain role within pre-defined boundries (in other words you must behave in a certain way imaginative or non-imaginative) are in no way different from the guild types discussed here.
Same reason why some guilds only let people who are over a specific age. So people can relate to others in their guild by having common interests.
Gosh .. we are talking about gaming guilds.
Why would you care how others organize their guilds?
Everyone has the right to pick their friends, and be in a guild with like-minded individuals who are fun to play with. I can totally understand Christians seeking a Christian friendly guild, or LGBT people seeking a LGBT friendly guild.
But seeking like-minded friends to play with can also easily turn into segregating all others based on some criteria that should have no in-game impact. If I start to feel like a Christian guild is formed so that Christians can exclude all others and play without them, then I don't see why I should give members of that guild the same respect I normally give to all fellow players I encounter while playing.
if a LBGT guild can exist, can its polar opposite also exist ?
if no, then my vote is "Nay" to the LBGT one out of fairness. similarly with religion...can an atheist guild exist ?
while behind closed doors these guilds can exist, can they freely advertise ?
I believe people have to the right to include or exclude whoever they want. Sadly, this is not the civilized world I would hope it would be, where everyone just accepts each other regardless. Less hatred, more understanding, would be nice. However, until we reach actual civilization, I think people have the aforementioned right. Most MMO's already have religion in them, so why not have more? Sex is something everything does, so that is there too. People will always judge others, that is just going to happen because humans fear each other. It would be really nice if there was a place where everyone could go to be themselves, for some it is hating others, for some it is loving others.
Originally posted by tkreep Originally posted by immodium What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"
Common interests? There is only one interest. (Unless you come across a homsexual, catholic, and liberal guild).
When people group themselves(segregate) in this way and claim they are sharing common interests. Other than what they prefer to fuck, what god they follow and if they are right wing, what interest do they have that that they can't share with people who arn't gay, who arn't catholic and who arn't democratic?
It's not like a brony's only guild. These subjects do touch people a bit more deeply than that.
TBH, I don't actually care (just find it little odd) if they create these guilds and talk about that stuff in private. It's when it brought up in public chats. Luckily, they do include an ignore button.
I'm a hetrosexual man, I would never think I couldn't share common interests with a homosexual just because of his sexual orientation.
No problem at all with it. Same as with people who advertise they are a guild of hard core raiders, pvp fanatics, server first specialists or stoners just looking for a good time.
Let people associate for the reasons they like, we are all free to join or ignore them as we please.
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