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  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     

     

    LOL this is fun... I get your point but I am saying I 100% disagree with you, I will paraphrase it can work in any game if they tune it for the game. Im not saying add a cash shop to FF14, I was replying to a comment that game with cash shop = pay to win and crappy game =-) A smart dev team can make a cash shop fair to any game and make sure its not pay to win. If they added some vanity items to a cash shop for FF14, pets and dresses my wife would like to put on her avatar I would not be upset. To keep her playing I would most likely buy a few to make her want to log in more =-) I get the fear of cash shops, some games have used it as a tool to rip off their customers. 

     I disagree, not every game will have a nice fair and square cash shop for all and still be profitable. I'll go back to Anarchy.

    When they opened the Cash Shop up, they didn't sell anything that would be considered highly advantageous. But most of the items could be traded. (Real money to game money conversion) Not too different than GW2 in theory. But in Anarchy, the game's mechanics allow for something called "Loot Rights" And those are sold in that game. The mechanic is such that an un looted boss mob will not de-spawn for a long time but after a couple of minutes, the unlooted corpse becomes FFA. What groups will do, is go back to Trade Chat in one of hte cities and announce they have an unlooted Raid Drop. "Who want's it?" For the right amount of money paid to the raid team, anyone in the game will be ported to the corpse and allowed to loot. So, even the Character Bound Raid dropped items can be bought due to different mechanics. 

     

    Same kinda of shop in two different MMOs has 2 different effects. 

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser ParisPosts: 1,873Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
     

    I've said this in other threads. Almost everything new ANET did in that game, belongs in that game and that game only. Nothing GW2 brought to the genre would work out as well in new MMOs as well as it works in GW2.

    Other than 'because i said so', we don't know yet if GW2 features will work well in other MMOS or not. ESO is the only upcoming MMO i know of that is incorporating a lot of GW2 features. So the jury is still out that.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
     

    I've said this in other threads. Almost everything new ANET did in that game, belongs in that game and that game only. Nothing GW2 brought to the genre would work out as well in new MMOs as well as it works in GW2.

    Other than 'because i said so', we don't know yet if GW2 features will work well in other MMOS or not. ESO is the only upcoming MMO i know of that is incorporating a lot of GW2 features. So the jury is still out that.

    That's what I've been saying. Something that works in Game A, Doesn't mean it's going to work in Game B. Not saying it won't. But that different mechanics make for different dynamics and may or may not translate.

    I just happen to be less optimistic about it. But that's my own opinion.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     

     

    LOL this is fun... I get your point but I am saying I 100% disagree with you, I will paraphrase it can work in any game if they tune it for the game. Im not saying add a cash shop to FF14, I was replying to a comment that game with cash shop = pay to win and crappy game =-) A smart dev team can make a cash shop fair to any game and make sure its not pay to win. If they added some vanity items to a cash shop for FF14, pets and dresses my wife would like to put on her avatar I would not be upset. To keep her playing I would most likely buy a few to make her want to log in more =-) I get the fear of cash shops, some games have used it as a tool to rip off their customers. 

     I disagree, not every game will have a nice fair and square cash shop for all and still be profitable. I'll go back to Anarchy.

    When they opened the Cash Shop up, they didn't sell anything that would be considered highly advantageous. But most of the items could be traded. (Real money to game money conversion) Not too different than GW2 in theory. But in Anarchy, the game's mechanics allow for something called "Loot Rights" And those are sold in that game. The mechanic is such that an un looted boss mob will not de-spawn for a long time but after a couple of minutes, the unlooted corpse becomes FFA. What groups will do, is go back to Trade Chat in one of hte cities and announce they have an unlooted Raid Drop. "Who want's it?" For the right amount of money paid to the raid team, anyone in the game will be ported to the corpse and allowed to loot. So, even the Character Bound Raid dropped items can be bought due to different mechanics. 

     

    Same kinda of shop in two different MMOs has 2 different effects. 

    I agree 100%, players will always look for ways to exploit game mechanics to their advantage but thats what patches and updates are for =-) As I said a smart dev team can make a fair cash shop to any game. Will it need adjusting and updates? Most likely. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member
    Are some of you saying you don't like ftp because its ptw or in some ways unfair to players.  In other words you don't trust the Devs of FF to make a decent ftp system.  Yet you trust them to have ptp without a bad cash shop(or none at all) or not go ftp (or some hybrid) 6-8 months after going live?
  • wizyywizyy Novi SadPosts: 629Member
    Originally posted by Naqaj
    This conversation is actually quite interesting, but for gods sake can you please stop those quote monstrosities!

    It's always some two dudes who keep quoting themselves. Ruined many a thread

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ryowulf
    Are some of you saying you don't like ftp because its ptw or in some ways unfair to players.  In other words you don't trust the Devs of FF to make a decent ftp system.  Yet you trust them to have ptp without a bad cash shop(or none at all) or not go ftp (or some hybrid) 6-8 months after going live?

    hehe sounds funny when you put it that way =-) We trust them to make a fair P2P game but would not trust them to add a cash shop or F2P model. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wizyy
    Originally posted by Naqaj
    This conversation is actually quite interesting, but for gods sake can you please stop those quote monstrosities!

    It's always some two dudes who keep quoting themselves. Ruined many a thread

    Dang you just quoted someone, you ruined the thread. OK PEOPLE SHUT IT DOWN!!! MODS ARE YOU LISTING? Really, people having a conversation ruins a thread? I would say, trolling, cry babies, people who cant stay on topic, angry people are all things that ruin a thread. ((eye roll))


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    That's what I've been saying. Something that works in Game A, Doesn't mean it's going to work in Game B. Not saying it won't. But that different mechanics make for different dynamics and may or may not translate.

    I just happen to be less optimistic about it. But that's my own opinion.

    Interesting. What if it's not actually the mechanics that are all that different, but merely the players' perception of what encompasses 'winning'?

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,209Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Ryowulf
    Are some of you saying you don't like ftp because its ptw or in some ways unfair to players.  In other words you don't trust the Devs of FF to make a decent ftp system.  Yet you trust them to have ptp without a bad cash shop(or none at all) or not go ftp (or some hybrid) 6-8 months after going live?

    hehe sounds funny when you put it that way =-) We trust them to make a fair P2P game but would not trust them to add a cash shop or F2P model. 

    That also sort of implies you trust them not to include time sinks for the purpose of keeping you subbed longer so you pay more, like say leve quest limitations or cooldowns.  Do you all trust they wouldn't do that?  Do you think people will justify and explain away the time sinks rather than acknowledge them?  They've sort of existed in every mmo since UO, Lineage, and EQ.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Ryowulf
    Are some of you saying you don't like ftp because its ptw or in some ways unfair to players.  In other words you don't trust the Devs of FF to make a decent ftp system.  Yet you trust them to have ptp without a bad cash shop(or none at all) or not go ftp (or some hybrid) 6-8 months after going live?

    hehe sounds funny when you put it that way =-) We trust them to make a fair P2P game but would not trust them to add a cash shop or F2P model. 

    That also sort of implies you trust them not to include time sinks for the purpose of keeping you subbed longer so you pay more, like say leve quest limitations or cooldowns.  Do you all trust they wouldn't do that?  Do you think people will justify and explain away the time sinks rather than acknowledge them?  They've sort of existed in every mmo since UO, Lineage, and EQ.

    lol, when it comes down to it you gona pay no matter what model they pick. People who think F2P is really free have only fooled themselves. Sure with a sub model they will want to bottle neck you as much as they can. Its only smart business =-)


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Naqaj
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    That's what I've been saying. Something that works in Game A, Doesn't mean it's going to work in Game B. Not saying it won't. But that different mechanics make for different dynamics and may or may not translate.

    I just happen to be less optimistic about it. But that's my own opinion.

    Interesting. What if it's not actually the mechanics that are all that different, but merely the players' perception of what encompasses 'winning'?

    While I can't argue that "Winniing" is 100% subjective, you wouldn't consider the ability to obtain top of the line, best in slot items in the entire game regardless of how or where they dropped simply by using a credit card P2W?

    Becasue in game mechanics in one game allow for it where the other is not entirely the case, yet both Cash Shops were very similar.

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    While I can't argue that "Winniing" is 100% subjective, you wouldn't consider the ability to obtain top of the line, best in slot items in the entire game regardless of how or where they dropped simply by using a credit card P2W?

    That part alone I actually really wouldn't consider P2W, because it's missing a pretty important part of context: what do you need the best-in-slot items for? What can you do with them that you couldn't do without? I think that's a pretty important piece of the puzzle, but is routinely overlooked in the discussions (or rants, really) about the merits of cash shops.

     

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Naqaj
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    While I can't argue that "Winniing" is 100% subjective, you wouldn't consider the ability to obtain top of the line, best in slot items in the entire game regardless of how or where they dropped simply by using a credit card P2W?

    That part alone I actually really wouldn't consider P2W, because it's missing a pretty important part of context: what do you need the best-in-slot items for? What can you do with them that you couldn't do without? I think that's a pretty important piece of the puzzle, but is routinely overlooked in the discussions (or rants, really) about the merits of cash shops.

     

    Truth be told, I personally don't love the idea, but P2W items such as combat buffs in the Cash Shop are actually less offensive to me than the ability to convert real money to game currency on a large scale. Yes I am fully aware Gold sellers still operate, but the scale is much smaller since the average Joe gamer isn't about to risk his account on a minor gold purchase. But in a sanctioned game.....Well, all you have to do is look at how many people have kites in GW2. They are all Shop users. And as a result, GW2 economy is one of the worst game economies I've ever seen.  Plus the built in mechanics such as 15% taxing on TP use that is forced since there is no inter-player trade options. I find that to be ridiculous.

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member

    Well, currency conversion, same thing as before. What you can actually buy with it, and what that enables you to do is what makes the difference.

    I don't think that's the explanation for GW2's market. Everyone's a crafter, everyone produces the high-end gear, it's absolutely a buyers market. There is almost no scarcity except for the few items related to Legendaries. I guess whether you consider that market good or bad depends on what end of the transaction you're at.

    I'd assume XIV will go the opposite way, with how much more invovled gathering and crafting are, crafters will likely be a much smaller portion of the population, causing a very different ratio of supply and demand.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Naqaj
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    While I can't argue that "Winniing" is 100% subjective, you wouldn't consider the ability to obtain top of the line, best in slot items in the entire game regardless of how or where they dropped simply by using a credit card P2W?

    That part alone I actually really wouldn't consider P2W, because it's missing a pretty important part of context: what do you need the best-in-slot items for? What can you do with them that you couldn't do without? I think that's a pretty important piece of the puzzle, but is routinely overlooked in the discussions (or rants, really) about the merits of cash shops.

     

    Truth be told, I personally don't love the idea, but P2W items such as combat buffs in the Cash Shop are actually less offensive to me than the ability to convert real money to game currency on a large scale. Yes I am fully aware Gold sellers still operate, but the scale is much smaller since the average Joe gamer isn't about to risk his account on a minor gold purchase. But in a sanctioned game.....Well, all you have to do is look at how many people have kites in GW2. They are all Shop users. And as a result, GW2 economy is one of the worst game economies I've ever seen.  Plus the built in mechanics such as 15% taxing on TP use that is forced since there is no inter-player trade options. I find that to be ridiculous.

    100% agree, never liked you could buy gems and sell them for game gold. 


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member
    Originally posted by Shatter30
    This game will fail as a sub MMO.  If TOR couldn't survive as one as large of an IP as it is, why would this do any better when its essentially a WOW clone done worse. 

     

    TOR fell because it was a really crappy game, despite the IP.

    A triple A sub MMO is exactly what we need right now, as long as it delivers.

    image
  • AyulinAyulin Mt marion, NYPosts: 334Member
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     

    The times have changed as well in the past 2 years. New customers are picking F2P because they have so many games to pick from. You wana keep a flow of new people trying your game in this new market get with the times. It will happen.

    I have your posts bookmarked.

    It's going to be entertaining to see how quickly you'll be spinning when your "expert predictions" don't come to pass, because you don't have all the answers, you don't have your thumb on the pulse of the MMO industry, and you do not and can not claim to speak for every MMO gamer out there, what they will or will not pay for, what they prefer or why. Yet, that's what you continue to do when you argue these broad-sweeping generalizations as though they're irrefutable fact.

    John Smedley, a man on the inside, with years of first-hand MMO industry experience, seeing it go through its changes in real-time, as he tried to keep SOE's games relevant throughout them, predicted that TOR would be the last AAA MMO released as P2P; that subs would become a thing of the past. He was wrong.

    But somehow, you... an arm-chair forum-warrior with an opinion... have it all figured out. Please forgive me if my confidence in your predictive abilities isn't exactly peaking.

    So I look forward to seeing how graciously you accept defeat when you're proven wrong. If you'd been paying attention at all to recent history - specifically FFXIV 1.0 up through 1.23, after Yoshi-P took over, and the fact that its population tripled... after they reinstated subs - you'd see the indications that you already have been proven wrong about just how willing people are to pay a sub when the game is worth it to them (I'm sure you'll find some way to spin and dismiss that, too, right?).

    Or who knows, maybe you'll have the integrity to stand up and say, "Okay, you know what... I was wrong. I was way too confident in my opinions, didn't know nearly as much as I thought I did, and my assertions were proven false".

    But here's what I think will happen... you'll never admit you were wrong. You'll just keep moving the goal-post, insisting that at "some indistinct and uncertain future time, XIV will go F2P." Even if it's 12 years down the line, you'll still be gloating about "how right you were".

    Should be fun to see.

     

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,290Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ayulin
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     

    The times have changed as well in the past 2 years. New customers are picking F2P because they have so many games to pick from. You wana keep a flow of new people trying your game in this new market get with the times. It will happen.

    I have your posts bookmarked.

    It's going to be entertaining to see how quickly you'll be spinning when your "expert predictions" don't come to pass, because you don't have all the answers, you don't have your thumb on the pulse of the MMO industry, and you do not and can not claim to speak for every MMO gamer out there, what they will or will not pay for, what they prefer or why. Yet, that's what you continue to do when you argue these broad-sweeping generalizations as though they're irrefutable fact.

    John Smedley, a man on the inside, with years of first-hand MMO industry experience, seeing it go through its changes in real-time, as he tried to keep SOE's games relevant throughout them, predicted that TOR would be the last AAA MMO released as P2P; that subs would become a thing of the past. He was wrong.

    But somehow, you... an arm-chair forum-warrior with an opinion... have it all figured out. Please forgive me if my confidence in your predictive abilities isn't exactly peaking.

    So I look forward to seeing how graciously you accept defeat when you're proven wrong. If you'd been paying attention at all to recent history - specifically FFXIV 1.0 up through 1.23, after Yoshi-P took over, and the fact that its population tripled... after they reinstated subs - you'd see the indications that you already have been proven wrong about just how willing people are to pay a sub when the game is worth it to them). Nothing's quite so fun as seeing a forum know-it-all back-pedaling, revising history and attempting to spin their own previous arguments when they prove to be false, trying to make it sound like what they said... isn't what they actually said..

    Or who knows, maybe you'll have the integrity to stand up and say, "Okay, you know what... I was wrong. I was way too confident in my opinions, didn't know nearly as much as I thought I did, and my assertions were proven false".

    But here's what I think will happen... you'll never admit you were wrong. You'll just keep moving the goal-post, insisting that at "some indistinct and uncertain future time, XIV will go F2P." Even if it's 12 years down the line, you'll still be gloating about "how right you were".

    Should be fun to see.

     

    Times have changed, that much is very definitely true, as personally i have never seen so many mediocre F2P games on the market, and its no surprise that people flit from one game to another, i dare say few of them remember the game they were even playing 6 months ago with any degree of certainty.

    And why would they, after a while they probably become just a blur. Sometimes i think the fact that they invest money and time into a game gives them an additional attachment, FF XI is still after all P2P, a fact which seems to be consistently overlooked - WoW and Eve are not the only long running P2P games out there after all.

    Whether F2P is a passing fad is probably irrelevant, although i wouldnt rule it out as it does have several major flaws, P2W just being one of them.  But FF XIV is increasingly looking like a game i will be playing for a long time to come, and its P2P, and thats just fine by me. image

  • MasterfuzzfuzzMasterfuzzfuzz United States, NCPosts: 169Member
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Ayulin
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     

    The times have changed as well in the past 2 years. New customers are picking F2P because they have so many games to pick from. You wana keep a flow of new people trying your game in this new market get with the times. It will happen.

    I have your posts bookmarked.

    It's going to be entertaining to see how quickly you'll be spinning when your "expert predictions" don't come to pass, because you don't have all the answers, you don't have your thumb on the pulse of the MMO industry, and you do not and can not claim to speak for every MMO gamer out there, what they will or will not pay for, what they prefer or why. Yet, that's what you continue to do when you argue these broad-sweeping generalizations as though they're irrefutable fact.

    John Smedley, a man on the inside, with years of first-hand MMO industry experience, seeing it go through its changes in real-time, as he tried to keep SOE's games relevant throughout them, predicted that TOR would be the last AAA MMO released as P2P; that subs would become a thing of the past. He was wrong.

    But somehow, you... an arm-chair forum-warrior with an opinion... have it all figured out. Please forgive me if my confidence in your predictive abilities isn't exactly peaking.

    So I look forward to seeing how graciously you accept defeat when you're proven wrong. If you'd been paying attention at all to recent history - specifically FFXIV 1.0 up through 1.23, after Yoshi-P took over, and the fact that its population tripled... after they reinstated subs - you'd see the indications that you already have been proven wrong about just how willing people are to pay a sub when the game is worth it to them). Nothing's quite so fun as seeing a forum know-it-all back-pedaling, revising history and attempting to spin their own previous arguments when they prove to be false, trying to make it sound like what they said... isn't what they actually said..

    Or who knows, maybe you'll have the integrity to stand up and say, "Okay, you know what... I was wrong. I was way too confident in my opinions, didn't know nearly as much as I thought I did, and my assertions were proven false".

    But here's what I think will happen... you'll never admit you were wrong. You'll just keep moving the goal-post, insisting that at "some indistinct and uncertain future time, XIV will go F2P." Even if it's 12 years down the line, you'll still be gloating about "how right you were".

    Should be fun to see.

     

    Times have changed, that much is very definitely true, as personally i have never seen so many mediocre F2P games on the market, and its no surprise that people flit from one game to another, i dare say few of them remember the game they were even playing 6 months ago with any degree of certainty.

    And why would they, after a while they probably become just a blur. Sometimes i think the fact that they invest money and time into a game gives them an additional attachment, FF XI is still after all P2P, a fact which seems to be consistently overlooked - WoW and Eve are not the only long running P2P games out there after all.

    Whether F2P is a passing fad is probably irrelevant, although i wouldnt rule it out as it does have several major flaws, P2W just being one of them.  But FF XIV is increasingly looking like a game i will be playing for a long time to come, and its P2P, and thats just fine by me. image

    FFXIV feels very average. I don't see much that warrants p2p over f2p

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ayulin
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
     

    The times have changed as well in the past 2 years. New customers are picking F2P because they have so many games to pick from. You wana keep a flow of new people trying your game in this new market get with the times. It will happen.

    I have your posts bookmarked.

    It's going to be entertaining to see how quickly you'll be spinning when your "expert predictions" don't come to pass, because you don't have all the answers, you don't have your thumb on the pulse of the MMO industry, and you do not and can not claim to speak for every MMO gamer out there, what they will or will not pay for, what they prefer or why. Yet, that's what you continue to do when you argue these broad-sweeping generalizations as though they're irrefutable fact.

    John Smedley, a man on the inside, with years of first-hand MMO industry experience, seeing it go through its changes in real-time, as he tried to keep SOE's games relevant throughout them, predicted that TOR would be the last AAA MMO released as P2P; that subs would become a thing of the past. He was wrong.

    But somehow, you... an arm-chair forum-warrior with an opinion... have it all figured out. Please forgive me if my confidence in your predictive abilities isn't exactly peaking.

    So I look forward to seeing how graciously you accept defeat when you're proven wrong. If you'd been paying attention at all to recent history - specifically FFXIV 1.0 up through 1.23, after Yoshi-P took over, and the fact that its population tripled... after they reinstated subs - you'd see the indications that you already have been proven wrong about just how willing people are to pay a sub when the game is worth it to them (I'm sure you'll find some way to spin and dismiss that, too, right?).

    Or who knows, maybe you'll have the integrity to stand up and say, "Okay, you know what... I was wrong. I was way too confident in my opinions, didn't know nearly as much as I thought I did, and my assertions were proven false".

    But here's what I think will happen... you'll never admit you were wrong. You'll just keep moving the goal-post, insisting that at "some indistinct and uncertain future time, XIV will go F2P." Even if it's 12 years down the line, you'll still be gloating about "how right you were".

    Should be fun to see.

     

    I could be very wrong, this is my guess on how the market is going and  as I have said many times  I am interested to see how it plays out. I have never said my word is law on this matter. I have also said I want to hear other peoples views =) This is a really interesting topic and I hope people show me things I dont know. I have said many times we will really know if I am right or wrong over the next few years =-) No reason to get upset on what little me thinks. I have also said many times I will play any good game that charges a fair price F2P, B2P or P2P.

    Watching companies gamble millions on what payment model to use, switching models 12 months later as a gamble to try and win more subs good or bad game. This is one of the hottest topics with MMOs right now. How we pay to play our games =-)  You have your ideas on how things will turn out and I have mine. We could cover many topics and I am sure we would agree and disagree in many areas. In the end, the MMO Western  market is in the middle of a change, F2P will rule and companies will be forced to switch to live or F2P will flop and same thing companies will be trying to switch to something else that works like back to the old P2P model =-) Or maybe we land in the middle where both models will work and we as gamers get more options.

    But let me be clear, the F2P model I think will be king is the one where you get to try the game free close to end game or till top level. Then you need to buy the game like anyone else. The restrictions on F2P will be tight enough that you will need to sub if you want to join the end game community. Its called F2P hybrid but to me it just seems like a really long demo. Im all about paying for a quality game. Be that in a cash shop or a sub. I would rather a fair sub, 8-15 bucks a month depending on the game. But I think we maybe stuck with cash shops. Let the games begin =-) ((sets timer to 2 years and counting))


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • MadDemon64MadDemon64 Maplewood, NJPosts: 1,098Member Uncommon
    Honestly I would be happy if this game was even b2p.

    Since when is Tuesday a direction?

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,744Member Uncommon
    Look if you want to support games with no cash shops then support this game and pay a sub and subscribe to it.

    image

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Posts: 5,451Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kitarad
    Look if you want to support games with no cash shops then support this game and pay a sub and subscribe to it.

    That raises a question, if a game does have a cash shop thats say not pay to win. Should the sub still be 15 bucks a month?


    =-D Only on a forum can optimism be called bad and pessimism the good thing =-D Welcome to the internet and forums. 


  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,744Member Uncommon
    It should be lower then the sub.

    image

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