Originally posted by Nanfoodle I play GW2 right now mostly for my PvP fix =-) If FF has a wicked PvP system when they add it, I may drop GW2 all together. If it does not, I will play FF for PvE and GW2 for PvP as it costs me nothing to do so. I like their B2P cash shop, if I really want something I will buy it but I am not forced to in any way. So they may have me for life for just PvP.
Can you tell me how you picture FFARR pvp to be wicked? Cause i surely cant see any way to see it even remotely interesting with the combatsystem thats in this game. Looking at 2 Conjurers standing still casting stone at eachother for 5 min sounds really wicked
He said 'if'. So yep PVP is never going to be anything like GW2 in FFXIV. Combat is too slow and lack of mobility will never give PVPers the rush they look for.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
i played GW2 mainly for the PVP. The PVE was a complete JOKE. So ridiculously easy that it was just not fun for me. As for the PVP in GW2, WvW was fun at first but then I realized it's just a zergfest. Plus it takes forever to run anywhere because the battlegrounds are so damn big even with swiftness (but I played a mesmer, which was the slowest class). Then theres sPVP which I really enjoyed, but ArenaNet took way too long to make any changes to sPVP. The only thing I could do was do 2 team quick tournys since nobody ever did anything else. There was no incentive for guilds to do sPVP at all, so it just turned into a casual thing with no actual ladder. In addition, the combat got very stale with the limited skills per character and the need to play metabuilds to actually be effective.
I'm really looking forward to FFXIV for the PVE mainly, which already at level 20 seems more challenging than GW2 endgame, abut if the PVP is good, I'll be a very happy man.
Even the famed DAoC had zergs, but over time guilds learned to deal with zergs =-) I miss DAoC. If you have not played in a while you may want to do some WvW again. Guilds are really starting to work together. Defending more as well. I log in at peek times and Q up for WvW and play 1-2hr here and there. Its gotten a lot better and they have done some nice updates to WvW. I also was not a fan of their sPvP service.
The way I came to understand zergs, is that the only way to get rid of zergs in a Video Game is to not have any sort of Massive Multiplayer activities in the game what so ever, just limited number'd battlegrounds can ony stop a zerg from zerging but then again 5 people can zerg as well ha ha.
Cause I can't think of any war, massive battles, that did not have zergs in rl and in videogames, now with guns, yea not many zergs ha ha.
DAOC did indeed have zergs, but the primary difference between the two is that WvW is mainly geared toward casuals. In fact GW2 in general is for casuals. The skill cap is very low. So if you have zerg vs zerg, the one with more players will undoubtably prevail. DAOC was different because of the higher skillcap. I played in a guild called KoS and we excelled in roaming as small groups and taking out zergs/capping keeps without the need for a zerg. Since the skill cap in GW2 is so low, you essentially need a zerg. And I got really tired of being outmanned constantly (I played on Sanctum of Rall and we would always lose due to higher number of players on the other side). And I was in one of the best WvW guilds too, a guild that also played DAOC, and many members complain about the lame PVP in the game but there's nothing else to play. Many are hoping Camelot Unchained changes that and brings back competitive PVP gameplay.
TLDR: zergs aren't the problem, the need for zerging is due to low skillcap
Okay now this response I like much more, spite it bein an opinion as well, cause I can for a fact tell you had the opposite experience, playing for sanctum of rall as well, our guild had squads that split up and did different things, without a need of a zerg. Though I will say this, had you told me this before WvW improvements, I'd have to say IMO, your are indeed right. See cause here is the thing, MMORPGs improve, my point being is that no game that does stuff like GW2..DAOC, will avoid a "zergfest." It'll never happen, there will never be a day where someone has not experienced a zerg or zerg fest especially in a well populated game.
Ah, IC. Well maybe there have been recent changes to WvW that I'm unaware of. I last played the game around March/April
Even with a reason not to be in a zerg. Even when you can do this in a sandbox setting(ArchAge has zergs), organized zergs and random ones are subjective, no matter what any one says, cause of the experiences.
So I find statements like "I didn't like such and such because it's a zergfest." not needed, why? Cause if FRR PVP has a lot of players there will be zergs, and depending on who ever stated zergfest as their issues...pride, he or she will need to just understand that avoiding zergfests in highly populated PVP games, is not possible
Indeed it very well could be the case that FFIV won't have good PVP, zergfests, or what have you, but the game isn't marketing itself as a PVP e-sport like game, which is what GW2 did. The only reason I focused so much on GW2's pvp is because the PVE is very lame and easy. It seems that FFXIV's PVE will be quite challenging from what I've seen, which is the hallmark of FF games anyway, so the PVP is a non-issue for me. If I want challenging PVP I'll play Counterstrike
I did read up on Unchained, from what they are doing, it sounds good when I read it, yet in still I know there will be zergs and people who don't like the game, claiming the game is a zergfest, in fact many will state it just because it's mainly focused on pvp, even if it's not true. I do wish I got to experience DAOC RVR myself, mainly what i do is look at videos and old posts and etc to get an idea.
Personally the game was not my style in terms of gameplay and payment model ha ha. So I do must ask, why oor what about Guild Wars 2 make it have a low skill cap, is it cause you didn't like the game or for a fact it has a low skillcap, was it the weapons being limited, was it the fact that at first there where no wvw lvls and skill perks, cause to me strategy and skill right now been helping in WvW, at first I ran with zergs but found it much more better to work in smaller organized teams ranging from 10-20 people(who do split up to take on certain things).
Yes the low skill cap in GW2 is primarily that there are so few skills for each player (5 skills, 2 weapons = 10 skills total, plus perhaps a couple utilities), and how they tried to make each class very similar and self-sufficient in order to get rid of the trinity. It wasn't a bad idea, but the limited number of skills really lowers the skill cap. The downed state is another really annoying part of the game for me, but that's just my personal opinion.
I also want to mention that the payment model of FFXIV is specifically because it will be a PVE focused game. This means that there will be constant content updates (dungeons, zones, etc). GW2's payment model works for the kind of game that it is. It doesn't have that much of PVE content in endgame and people enjoy the WvW/sPVP, but FFX14 will have more of a focus on endgame PVE content, which requires more development hours, thus requiring more cost. it's the same approach that Blizzard had with WoW and SE with FFXI. A game like DAOC today would probably be B2P or F2P.
Tried biting my tounge but you sure that payment model statement is true? cause no joke here but similar statements arose about Rift,SWTOR,AOC,TSW, and Tera just to name a few. Also on the rest of your statements, fair enough mate.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle I play GW2 right now mostly for my PvP fix =-) If FF has a wicked PvP system when they add it, I may drop GW2 all together. If it does not, I will play FF for PvE and GW2 for PvP as it costs me nothing to do so. I like their B2P cash shop, if I really want something I will buy it but I am not forced to in any way. So they may have me for life for just PvP.
Can you tell me how you picture FFARR pvp to be wicked? Cause i surely cant see any way to see it even remotely interesting with the combatsystem thats in this game. Looking at 2 Conjurers standing still casting stone at eachother for 5 min sounds really wicked
Im not a huge fan of 1v1 PvP. I like group style PvP combat, the larger the scale the better. FF14 will have siege style warfare. How good will it be? I will judge that through my DAoC fanboy eyes. GW2 WvW is a small fix but does not have the rush DAoC had. First MMO to give me that same quality RvR style PvP I will living there as a gamer =-)
Technically yes. I did leave GW2 but that was about a month or 2 after it released. Like you, I thought it was odd and shallow. That "super awesome innovative groundbreaking bbq l33t unique not like WoW" zero trinity thing they implemented was (surprise, surprise) its worst feature by far. The questing was boring too (except the story) ... basically just stationary FATEs. Athough I admit FFXIV took a page from their more active world quest ... at least in ARR its an optional side activity.
Originally posted by Ehllfhire So OP took someones post in a thread and turned it into a fake issue to make XIV look better. This is the stuff that gives fanbois their reps.
No OP took someones post in a thread and turned it into a fake issue to make gw2 look bad.
Originally posted by Ehllfhire So OP took someones post in a thread and turned it into a fake issue to make XIV look better. This is the stuff that gives fanbois their reps.
No OP took someones post in a thread and turned it into a fake issue to make gw2 look bad.
Well i don't think its working so far though.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Why would someone "leave" a game that's free to play after purchase? You could not play the game for two months and come back and lose absolutely nothing for it as far as value goes.
On the other hand, if you left ARR for two months, then you just wasted $30.
I'm going to play both games, but I'd leave ARR before I left GW2. I'm not even sure if ARR will keep me as a subscriber, but I know I'll at least get one or two months of great fun out of it, so I'll play that until I'm not having fun and then cancel my sub (and to subscribe later, most likely, after more content is added, etc).
i will be leaving gw2 for ffxiv because in gw2 i felt there was really no purpose in my progression. while in ffxiv stuff i do matters. crafting for example and the auction house is a player based economy. of course one could get gear out of instances but crafting in ffxiv really adds to the flavor to the gameplay while in gw2 you cant make money out of crafting. but it's not only the crafting. the pve style of ffxiv and story line is insane compared to little gw2 pve contents. as for pvp would be nice if ffxiv did follow a rvr pvp system. wouldn't mind kicking those humans ass with my miqote or however u spell it.
I voted no as in my case, and I'd imagine many others, GW2 took players away from GW2..
Reasons?
1. The Mystic Toilet.
2. Totally crap economy
3. Extremely shallow gameplay.
But these are for another thread.
I will be subbing to FF14 :ARR as I've thoroughly enjoyed the beta weekends. Its not perfect, but its already proven itself deeper than anything else released in recent years,
I still plan on playing GW2/Tera/TSW/Defiance every other weekend but will never use the cashshop I bought all these game at retail (Tera/TSW when they where P2P) and that's all the cash I'm willing to spend on these games. I perfer P2P over Cashshops. I like all these games for different reasons.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus I will not play a subbed game as long as there are so many good and free to play games available... i will have to wayt till it goes F2p
Originally posted by SnarkRitter A thread about pulling players from other games into the board's game, yet the result is so close, that tells you something.....
Like you won't see GW2s fans like yoruself not flock to defend it as much as possible once you see GW2 in it, yeah, defeinitely tells you something.
Since the FFXIV beta I haven't played any other MMO's. Catching up on single player games at the moment. I have been craving FFXIV and phase 4 can't come soon enough
Originally posted by SnarkRitter A thread about pulling players from other games into the board's game, yet the result is so close, that tells you something.....
Like you won't see GW2s fans like yoruself not flock to defend it as much as possible once you see GW2 in it, yeah, defeinitely tells you something.
This thread is specifically addressing GW2 players, if they didn't come over here there wouldn't be anyone to vote in the poll. I mean, no XIV player would vote to sway the results, they are honest folks here.
No. Despite many flaws in GW2 it is still a lot closer to my "dreamgame" than FFXIV:ARR will ever be.
I would be silly to play a game, designed with mechanics I prefer to do without. Eventually I would just bitch and moan because I made a bad choice. I guess I could bitch/moan in an attempt to change the gamedesign but that would be both futile and stupid. Some of the people who "leave" GW2 will definately be happier in FFXIW if they prefer the mechanics/content offered here.
It is basically a win-win: Some players go to a game much closer to their desires, some players stay in GW2 and see less bitching/moaning that only revolves around the percieved lack of endgame raids, gearprogression and all the other stuff GW2 was designed to avoid :-)
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
Tried biting my tounge but you sure that payment model statement is true? cause no joke here but similar statements arose about Rift,SWTOR,AOC,TSW, and Tera just to name a few. Also on the rest of your statements, fair enough mate.
Well, let's not forget that all of those games started off as P2P but made the switch after subs began to fall in an attempt to rake in more cash when investors got upset (in the case of Trion, Rift's subs were dropping but really they just bet too much on Defiance which didn't do that well). I'm not sure about the other games, but I know for SWTOR that you pretty much have to sub in order to actually enjoy the game. Like Blizzard, Square Enix does not need to please investors with short-term earnings. They can afford to focus on the long-term, which is why they can afford to go P2P instead of relying on F2P to appease investors in the short-term.
I left GW2 a while ago. So technically no? But I voted yes.
I agree with the bit you posted though - GW2 was great fun for a while, but I like end-game progression and trinity combat and I really like what I am hearing about housing in FFXIV and the potential for RvR...
I need the carrot.
And I think trinity combat + dungeons/raids builds good community via guilds.
Guilds need content to beat their heads against, IMO.
Tried biting my tounge but you sure that payment model statement is true? cause no joke here but similar statements arose about Rift,SWTOR,AOC,TSW, and Tera just to name a few. Also on the rest of your statements, fair enough mate.
Well, let's not forget that all of those games started off as P2P but made the switch after subs began to fall in an attempt to rake in more cash when investors got upset (in the case of Trion, Rift's subs were dropping but really they just bet too much on Defiance which didn't do that well). I'm not sure about the other games, but I know for SWTOR that you pretty much have to sub in order to actually enjoy the game. Like Blizzard, Square Enix does not need to please investors with short-term earnings. They can afford to focus on the long-term, which is why they can afford to go P2P instead of relying on F2P to appease investors in the short-term.
F2P does give some great advantages over P2P, mostly when it comes to the ease of getting people to try your game. Like you talked about with SWToR. Once you get top level you have to sub to join the end game community. But P2P has some great advantages but thats why I think the F2P hybrid model is the best option. But thats just my guess. Is it the best option? I think we will find out sometime in the next 2-5 years =-) Watching things change is going to be a lot of fun. Im just glad its not my money on the line. =-)
Comments
He said 'if'. So yep PVP is never going to be anything like GW2 in FFXIV. Combat is too slow and lack of mobility will never give PVPers the rush they look for.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Im not a huge fan of 1v1 PvP. I like group style PvP combat, the larger the scale the better. FF14 will have siege style warfare. How good will it be? I will judge that through my DAoC fanboy eyes. GW2 WvW is a small fix but does not have the rush DAoC had. First MMO to give me that same quality RvR style PvP I will living there as a gamer =-)
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
No OP took someones post in a thread and turned it into a fake issue to make gw2 look bad.
Well i don't think its working so far though.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Why would someone "leave" a game that's free to play after purchase? You could not play the game for two months and come back and lose absolutely nothing for it as far as value goes.
On the other hand, if you left ARR for two months, then you just wasted $30.
I'm going to play both games, but I'd leave ARR before I left GW2. I'm not even sure if ARR will keep me as a subscriber, but I know I'll at least get one or two months of great fun out of it, so I'll play that until I'm not having fun and then cancel my sub (and to subscribe later, most likely, after more content is added, etc).
Did I miss ARR launching or something because how can anyone leave GW2 for an non-launched game?
People always take breaks from their current MMO to play betas they get into doesn't mean they are gone permanently from their current game.
Also where is any evidence of sudden mass migration from GW2?
I voted no as in my case, and I'd imagine many others, GW2 took players away from GW2..
Reasons?
1. The Mystic Toilet.
2. Totally crap economy
3. Extremely shallow gameplay.
But these are for another thread.
I will be subbing to FF14 :ARR as I've thoroughly enjoyed the beta weekends. Its not perfect, but its already proven itself deeper than anything else released in recent years,
remember when people were leaving GW2 for PS2, DF:UW, NWO, RIFT f2p, TERA f2p, etc.?
this game and you fanboys will be massive failures if ARR doesn't post 2.5 million subs the first month, taking players form GW2 and all.
You might be in an old folks home by then
Like you won't see GW2s fans like yoruself not flock to defend it as much as possible once you see GW2 in it, yeah, defeinitely tells you something.
This thread is specifically addressing GW2 players, if they didn't come over here there wouldn't be anyone to vote in the poll. I mean, no XIV player would vote to sway the results, they are honest folks here.
I'd already left GW2 before getting in the beta and the deciding to pre-order FFXIV:ARR, so I guess the option for me is 'No'.
However I think that misrepresents my position so I won't be voting.
No. Despite many flaws in GW2 it is still a lot closer to my "dreamgame" than FFXIV:ARR will ever be.
I would be silly to play a game, designed with mechanics I prefer to do without. Eventually I would just bitch and moan because I made a bad choice. I guess I could bitch/moan in an attempt to change the gamedesign but that would be both futile and stupid. Some of the people who "leave" GW2 will definately be happier in FFXIW if they prefer the mechanics/content offered here.
It is basically a win-win: Some players go to a game much closer to their desires, some players stay in GW2 and see less bitching/moaning that only revolves around the percieved lack of endgame raids, gearprogression and all the other stuff GW2 was designed to avoid :-)
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
Well, let's not forget that all of those games started off as P2P but made the switch after subs began to fall in an attempt to rake in more cash when investors got upset (in the case of Trion, Rift's subs were dropping but really they just bet too much on Defiance which didn't do that well). I'm not sure about the other games, but I know for SWTOR that you pretty much have to sub in order to actually enjoy the game. Like Blizzard, Square Enix does not need to please investors with short-term earnings. They can afford to focus on the long-term, which is why they can afford to go P2P instead of relying on F2P to appease investors in the short-term.
Agreed. On everything.
F2P does give some great advantages over P2P, mostly when it comes to the ease of getting people to try your game. Like you talked about with SWToR. Once you get top level you have to sub to join the end game community. But P2P has some great advantages but thats why I think the F2P hybrid model is the best option. But thats just my guess. Is it the best option? I think we will find out sometime in the next 2-5 years =-) Watching things change is going to be a lot of fun. Im just glad its not my money on the line. =-)
Billy, I can tell you some people (like me for example) won't leave GW2 for ARR.