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Are we happy that its free to play? What about Buy to Play?

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  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914

    Dont want eihter both have been bad for MMO comunities imo , still hoiping they have a Legends server that is sub only..That being said , i belive that SOE will provide a sub optiion for on top of the F2P like the other EQ games

     

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by Scorchien

     i believe that SOE will provide a sub optiion on top of the F2P like the other EQ games

    I'm expecting the same

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    Originally posted by coretex666

    You are making conclusion related to one game using certain business model based on total numbers for the market which is not correct.

    I am not saying anywhere that F2P games are subpar. You guys seem to read between the lines quite a lot.

    I am talking about the connection between expected level of demand for a product derived from the analysis done by the SOE finance department and the decision made by their board of directors regarding business model used.

    I am saying that if they expected that the demand for the product would be really strong at price of e.g. 15 USD / month, they would go with this business model instead of using F2P.

     

    The most common payment method for F2P games in the west is the monthly sub. It is not clear whether there will be a monthly sub for EQN. It is just clear that it will not be required. If they go with a monthly sub, they should be able to get 2x the amount of people to pay for it with F2P than they would if the game were P2P. P2P lowers the number of of players significantly, both paying, and non paying.

     

    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Iceman8235
    I think F2P will work fine for EQ next. It'll help keep the servers full longer. Having a stable income, if I enjoy the game I'll most likely sub to it if there are time saving bonuses involved in subbing.

    F2p does not provide stable income. It provides a quick in rush and then in 2 months the income is gone. That's what the devs want not what the players want.

     

    There are existing F2P games that have been stable for over a decade now. I admit that these are the old school F2P games, but there are games in the 2-5 span that are F2P and stable as well. I cant help but think that these statements that F2P is unstable are not based on any facts.

    If you want to see where the F2P gaming industry is going, look at email providers. They are now primarly F2P... but they used to be P2P.

     

  • LithiumTeaLithiumTea Member Posts: 16

    F2P Games suck donkey balls.

     

    As you are playing you can feel the company's presense. The pressure they put on you to spend money takes away from the freedom of just playing the game.

     

    I'd love to see a sub for EQN... I guess it's not good enough....

     

    Trust me when I say... "The next company who knows 100% that they have the next "BIG THING"... they will have a sub and I will be more than happy to pay.

     

    Don't let these companies fool you by saying F2P is the only way to go.... that's a bunch of bull. I have read many post just like mine. There are plenty out there who would gladly pay a sub to avoid the "Goldsink". 

  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 418
    Originally posted by LithiumTea

    F2P Games suck donkey balls.

     

    As you are playing you can feel the company's presense. The pressure they put on you to spend money takes away from the freedom of just playing the game.

     

    I'd love to see a sub for EQN... I guess it's not good enough....

     

    Trust me when I say... "The next company who knows 100% that they have the next "BIG THING"... they will have a sub and I will be more than happy to pay.

     

    Don't let these companies fool you by saying F2P is the only way to go.... that's a bunch of bull. I have read many post just like mine. There are plenty out there who would gladly pay a sub to avoid the "Goldsink". 

    Amen, brother.

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Enjoy watching that video boys.

    image
  • IadienIadien Member UncommonPosts: 638
    The ignorance toward F2P... lol love it.
  • Sorien88Sorien88 Member Posts: 15
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Sorien88
    Originally posted by coretex666

    For me, F2P indicates that the game may not be as awesome as some major MMO sites try to sell.

    Why?

    Because based on some analysis they made, they most likely came to a conclusion that there would not be sufficient demand for their product with an actual price tag (e.g. 15 USD / month) for the P2P revenues to exceed potential F2P revenues.

    If they really thought that they have a product which will be played by millions of players then they would go with P2P as in such case it would be more profitable than F2P.

    Basically for me it means that the game is not as ambitious as Smedley pushes on his twitter.

    You're an idiot if you think that SoE isn't putting everything they've got into EQN. EQ is their flagship product and the game that gave them their name. It's the one game they have that truly matters, every other FTP piece of crap they have released is just that a FTP POS.

    They know that this is their big ticket item and the only hope they will have for the next 10 years to stay relevant (or take the lead) in the MMO market. You're assumption is based off of the games that have been released as FTP over the last couple years. Name me one AAA MMO (aside from PS2 but come on who counts that shit) that has been released as a FTP game. I can't think of one.

    SoE is really the first of the big companies (blizz,trion,ect,ect,) to make a HUGE AAA title and release it as FTP right off the bat. SoE believes in the FTP model because it works, and it works well if implemented right...

    All that said I really don't have much of any faith in SoE. With their track record it will be a PoS but as a original 1999 EQ player I hope to god they pull off a miracle.

    First off, I am a big 4 auditor, so that business and finance is actually what makes my living. I am not making up some crazy conspiracy theories, I am simply using knowledge gained during studying economics at university and then auditing approximately 50 companies from various industries.

    I have not said that they are not putting everything into EQN. Where exactly did you read that? I am saying that despite the fact that they are putting everything into EQN, making their game F2P indicates that they do not expect sufficient level of demand for the game to generate maximum revenues with P2P business model. Calling me an idiot is not really an adequate reaction I would expect from an intelligent adult.

    Sorry, I wasn't trying to call you an idiot. More the idea that they are going with FTP because they don't believe they have an adequate product idiotic. Personally I don't see how 50 companies from various industry's have anything to do with this. Like I said, no other AAA MMO has been released as FTP yet as far as I know. Although you sound like an intelligent person, more so than myself, I think that SoE probably knows their industry a bit better. They probably see that with a smart FTP system they get more people playing and more people paying. Especially considering they will probably have a monthly payment system offering some sort of bonuses that many people will subscribe to.

    I personally don't think they made this decision based on the quality of their product seeing as they made this big public switch to all games being FTP before EQN was anything more than a possibility to the public. I could be completely wrong, and like I said before I don't have any faith in SoE but I do think that the FTP business model has a place in the MMO market and we will probably see (smart) FTP systems around for a long time to come.

    It certainly has been the dynamic that shitty games decide to go FTP though so I do see where your view comes from. I just don't think that that viewpoint is really fair when this title is pretty unprecedented compared to those titles.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by Burntvet
    So called "F2P" is an invitation to botters, cheaters, and gold sellers. The game will get over run with scumbag players of every type that can not be gotten rid of. Has SOE learned nothing from PS2? Apparently not. That game was loaded with hackers from beta and the vast majority were never removed, or simply returned on another acct after being banned/suspended. To me "F2P" is a huge turn off and is just another way of saying "not worth paying for".

    Having a crappy game architecture leads to cheating in games (IE: if you don't have all your operations server side people will find a way to cheat, really game design 101 here).

     

    Botters and gold sellers exist due to demand, not due to game payment models, if you believe otherwise there are a few hundred chinese political prisoners, that are known of of course, who'll tell you just how painful sitting in front of a computer for 18 hours a day to farm gold in World of Warcraft to meet a quota is (and yes if they didn't meet their quota they would get beaten).

    There has been a single game to my knowledge that had all operations server side: Final Fantasy XIV. I would tell you to go see how that turned out, but they scrapped it.

    Try again lad, any game that doesn't have a gameguard (or similar anti-hack/anti-cheat) system has most critical functions on the server. I was not referring to actually rendering the game or such, merely to all the operations regarding the outcomes of your actions in-game.

    And therein lies the problem: SOE puts all kinds of things the probably shouldn't be client-side. This what they did with PS2 (and that game had SERIOUS problems with hackers/exploiters, because in part, the damage and movement calculations were done on the client) which was recently released and their other games. They still program like it is 1999 and before the birth of  the script-kiddies. So don't expect different in EQN. The first game SOE programs to do things correctly server-side, will be the first one.

  • ArclanArclan Member UncommonPosts: 1,550


    Originally posted by Kurzed1
    I would like to see SOE attempt "innovation" in regards to the payment model as well as all the other new things they are bringing to the table....I would like to see SOE cater to all of us personally, with separate servers for all three...

    YES I totally agree.


    Originally posted by Sorien88
    ...I think that SoE probably knows their industry a bit better...


    This made me laugh because SOE has shown time and again a complete lack of business savvy. If their game makers produced gold bars, the head-scratchers in the business department would try to sell them as paper weights.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Kurzed1
    I would like to see SOE attempt "innovation" in regards to the payment model as well as all the other new things they are bringing to the table.

     

    ...

    I would like to see SOE cater to all of us personally, with separate servers for all three...


     

     

    YES I totally agree.

     

     


    Originally posted by Sorien88
    ...I think that SoE probably knows their industry a bit better...

     


    This made me laugh because SOE has shown time and again a complete lack of business savvy. If their game makers produced gold bars, the head-scratchers in the business department would try to sell them as paper weights.

    I have never seen any company, in any industry, match SOE's ability to turn gold into lead. You'd think some of the things they did were psychology or marketing experiments to see how much mistreatment customers were willing to take before they stopped paying/playing.  I really can't think of any logical or solid business reasons for a lot of the things SOE has done.

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    SoE's F2P model works ironically because if it's sub option. It gives a solid foundation in which to continue a good clip of development while pulling in potential customers.

    As long as they continue to make thier sub options worth it they should bypass the general stigma of F2P MMOs. My hope is that they carry this to EQN so I can sub and enjoy the game hassle free.
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Well to be more specific, continue my All Access and automatically be subbed :)
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by burdock2
    I myself would be happy to pay a subscription. Are people happy that it will be free to play or is that casting a pall on the shiny new game? What would you consider to be SOEs best "Free to play"model out of thier current stable of games?

    SOE don't have a good F2P model in any game, they are too greedy making their games pay2win.

    TERA have a good model and DDO is fine as well.

    But frankly was SOE already upsetting me when they added an itemshop in EQ2 while they still had their monthly fees.

    As I see it there are 2 acceptable models:

    1. P2P with all inclusive (name changes and server transfers could be discussed but you really should get 1 of each for free every month). Up to $20 is fine for that.

    2. B2P or F2P with a good RMT shop. Sell bankslots, character slots, skins, mounts (where similar can be gotten ingame without months of grinding), races and other stuff that don't mess up the balance of the game. 

    I hope they think things through for EQ Next because I know many people turned off from their games because they together with TOR have the worst western F2P model.

  • ElirionLothElirionLoth Member UncommonPosts: 308
    Originally posted by burdock2
    I myself would be happy to pay a subscription. Are people happy that it will be free to play or is that casting a pall on the shiny new game? What would you consider to be SOEs best "Free to play"model out of thier current stable of games?

    I'll stay away from it now.  F2P games always seem to end up being more expensive than sub games unless you just want to play casually.

  • ropeniceropenice Member UncommonPosts: 588
    Originally posted by giga1000

    All SOE current games are F2P and future games will be F2P because that's how the market has shifted gamer's want to try a game before they buy into it and that's that. Even the PS4 games will be this way play first then buy the game.

    I don't know how people think that people won't pay to try out a game. GW2, TOR, Rift-all had to buy the box/dig download, with 2 having subs and a lot of people did without hesitation Rift and Tor had to go f2p because they made games with no lasting power. Large numbers of people are willing to plunk down $60 and sub if they game can draw them in and keep their interest. 

    As to f2p, i'm worried they will make bad/intrusive game design decisions to push us into the CS. If every time i try to do something I need to buy something or a pop-up happen ever 5 minutes, I will not play. If they have a sub option that takes that immersion-breaker/hassle out of the game, then I'll be fine.

    Also, the effect of f2p has on community could be an issue. On DDO, you couldn't even pass through the low lev zone without being assailed by all forms of asshattery. But in the higher level zones/quests you rarely had the immature/abusive/crude chat.

  • ArclanArclan Member UncommonPosts: 1,550

    When EQN launches, it wouldn't hurt $SOE to create one server that is sub-only/no-cash shop.


    Originally posted by Burntvet
    I have never seen any company, in any industry, match SOE's ability to turn gold into lead. You'd think some of the things they did were psychology or marketing experiments to see how much mistreatment customers were willing to take before they stopped paying/playing. I really can't think of any logical or solid business reasons for a lot of the things SOE has done.


    Insane, isn't it?

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,113
    Is there any info on the F2P limitations? Is there an option to P2P? Im not a fan of SOE's F2P methods so far (PS2 excluded) but im not completely against paying a sub either if the game is worth it to me. 
  • Gallus85Gallus85 Member Posts: 1,092
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Enjoy watching that video boys.

    ^This video x1000.

    Amazing I already knew this information before the video.

    Amazing that it matches up with most/all of SOE's F2P models.

    F2P is the wave of the future, and it's a good thing, especially when it's done right.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Member Posts: 1,092
    Originally posted by Voqar
    [mod edit]

    Pay2Win is different from F2P.  See Planetside 2 for a great example of how you can't buy win.

    Plenty of entitled cry babies on P2P games too, so, don't see any real argument there.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    This game wont be really F2P, its more like Free to try. You really want to join the end game community in any SoE F2P product you need to pay a sub. Not a bad thing IMO but EQN is more F2P hybrid. 
  • Gallus85Gallus85 Member Posts: 1,092
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    This game wont be really F2P, its more like Free to try. You really want to join the end game community in any SoE F2P product you need to pay a sub. Not a bad thing IMO but EQN is more F2P hybrid. 

    And how will that work out if EQN doesn't have any "End Game", like planetside 2? :P

     Sure, games like EQ and EQ2 are a little more restrictive on content, but you can easily play ton of levels and get 1000 AA points and make multiple characters of any race/class without spending a dime.

    SOE is very relaxed on how much free players get to do, because the community still benefits from them, even if they don't bring in money.  They make the world feel more alive and active and in turn this makes the paying customers happy, keeping them around so they can spend more money.

    But at some point they have to say "Hey, gimme some damn change you filthy animal!"

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    Originally posted by Gallus85
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    This game wont be really F2P, its more like Free to try. You really want to join the end game community in any SoE F2P product you need to pay a sub. Not a bad thing IMO but EQN is more F2P hybrid. 

    And how will that work out if EQN doesn't have any "End Game", like planetside 2? :P

     Sure, games like EQ and EQ2 are a little more restrictive on content, but you can easily play ton of levels and get 1000 AA points and make multiple characters of any race/class without spending a dime.

    SOE is very relaxed on how much free players get to do, because the community still benefits from them, even if they don't bring in money.  They make the world feel more alive and active and in turn this makes the paying customers happy, keeping them around so they can spend more money.

    But at some point they have to say "Hey, gimme some damn change you filthy animal!"

    You mean it being sandbox? I dont buy this game is 100% sandbox. Maybe 40-60% as how can it be Everquest if it does not have themepark raiding and quests? But we can go in circles with this till Aug 2nd so I will just say this. Even if they like F2P players hanging around even if they dont pay, they will always make it worth paying a sub to try and win over the F2P customers. 

  • ArclanArclan Member UncommonPosts: 1,550


    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    ...how can it be Everquest if it does not have themepark raiding and quests?


    Orignial EQ is absolutely not themepark. Modern day EQ does have silly repetitive tasks, but I don't think they offer rediculous gear rewards or massive xp. And there are no quest hubs, nor npc exclamation points, nor quest compasses. Hence it too is not a themepark.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Member Posts: 1,092
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    ...how can it be Everquest if it does not have themepark raiding and quests?

     


    Orignial EQ is absolutely not themepark. Modern day EQ does have silly repetitive tasks, but I don't think they offer rediculous gear rewards or massive xp. And there are no quest hubs, nor npc exclamation points, nor quest compasses. Hence it too is not a themepark.

    This guy knows^

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

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