Originally posted by Eir_S You don't want to get into it because TERA's community was bad when it was p2p too. So was SWTOR's.
They re a hell of a lot worse now. Of course you re going to see it differently, you support the F2p style it seems. I have seen a way worse community in those games, once they went f2p.
Oh ok, they're worse now. So even if that's true, you admit they were bad before. And they were still P2P. Thanks.
Sure they were bad to a point, every game has idiots. As I said though, since they ve gone F2P they re WORSE!!!
Says you, I was treated just fine in TERA after it went F2P, in fact the worst offenders were high level players who owned the game when it was P2P. The point was that trolls apparently avoid P2P games. Anyone who's been paying attention knows that's a lie, a hopeful lie, but a lie nonetheless. This isn't the 80's anymore, most gamers have the means to pay for a subscription just to be tools. Maybe they even feel like it's ok because they're paying.
Trolls are loud. That's just the way it is. Games will always have trolls. When it's P2P, they are there. If the game goes F2P, they are there....but in bigger numbers, But since they always need to be heard, it's noticeable. It's unfortunate, but it's always the trolls who represent the community of the game to a passive player. Unless you go looking for the players you want to associate with in the community. But you have to go find them. They are there. There are decent players in WoW, they are in Rift, They are in NW, they are in GW2 they are in PWI and they will be in FF14.
lol, "F2P is the future." A false statement which as far as I can remember I first started hearing from this very site ... you know, the one with F2P ads everywhere? Yet to this day new MMOs are still released P2P. Yeah that makes sense ... the 'last resort' payment model is the future of MMOs. The future of MMOs is F2P because players generally dont want to pay yet the most popular MMO in history is P2P and had 13 million players when the global economy was at an all time low (doing much better now BTW). Good luck with that one freeloaders.
Cant wait to hear what ESO plans to price their game at ... cant wait to see the "Subscription Based for real?" thread pop up on their forum, lol.
Must be nice to be a kid these days and expect to just get everything in the world for free. Forget hard work, earning it, or paying for it. Just give me everything I want for free damn it!!
Originally posted by Kayo45 lol, "F2P is the future." A false statement which as far as I can remember I first started hearing from this very site ... you know, the one with F2P ads everywhere? Yet to this day new MMOs are still released P2P. Yeah that makes sense ... the 'last resort' payment model is the future of MMOs. The future of MMOs is F2P because players generally dont want to pay yet the most popular MMO in history is P2P and had 13 million players when the global economy was at an all time low (doing much better now BTW). Good luck with that one freeloaders.
Cant wait to hear what ESO plans to price their game at ... cant wait to see the "Subscription Based for real?" thread pop up on their forum, lol.
You know the fact that every P2P MMO that has released recently has gone belly up and changed into F2P completely contradicts your statement. Not to mention that majority of upcoming MMOS (EQNEXT for example) are either F2P or B2P.
If you want to convince people that P2P is the future of MMOS you would need examples of successful P2P MMOS from recent years. Got any?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf Must be nice to be a kid these days and expect to just get everything in the world for free. Forget hard work, earning it, or paying for it. Just give me everything I want for free damn it!!
Thats just a % of the F2P players. Sure everyone thinks of the cry baby kids when they think of F2P and the begging and the endless Chuck Noris jokes in general chat. Here is the facts... there is a lot of people willing to pay for a game if its good but not till they have gotten to really try the game. a level 20 demo does nothing to show you the game with a MMO. You need to be able to get to end game and try it there. F2P system like SoE has lets you do just that and make a little money off them as well. When they are ready to join the end game community. Many companies are going F2P with this model because so many people get hooked on the game after spending a ton of time getting to top level and then sub because of that investment. Its smart business and the best way to win over people who dont know what MMO they want to play. This game will take on a model like this one day or it will shrink and shrink. Change or die, this is the new standard just not everyone knows it. It will become clear in the next few years.
Originally posted by Ehllfhire Keep in mind they said 1.0 would never be f2p and was f2p out the gate. Its a possibility it could happen.
You might want to get your facts checked before you spout nonsense.
Lets see 1.0 launched and by week 2 they tolsd everyone they didnt have to pay, lasted that way for over a year. YOU check your trolling
I don't remember having a cashshop and charging people for stupid stuff. Square knew the game was lacking so they gave their valued customers an incentive to keep playing, until they worked out the kinks, what other company does this? They are more loyal to their fans than all those f2p game companies you play :P.
Originally posted by Kayo45 lol, "F2P is the future." A false statement which as far as I can remember I first started hearing from this very site ... you know, the one with F2P ads everywhere? Yet to this day new MMOs are still released P2P. Yeah that makes sense ... the 'last resort' payment model is the future of MMOs. The future of MMOs is F2P because players generally dont want to pay yet the most popular MMO in history is P2P and had 13 million players when the global economy was at an all time low (doing much better now BTW). Good luck with that one freeloaders.
Cant wait to hear what ESO plans to price their game at ... cant wait to see the "Subscription Based for real?" thread pop up on their forum, lol.
1. F2P and more advanced forms than that of alternate payment ( example: giving over a portion of your PCs processing power to the devs for them to run number crunching operations which they in turn get paid for by another company) are the future, if you wanna P2P I hear EA still has the WoWized UO around for just that.
2. WoW has been dipping quite allot over the recession years thanks in large part to mismanagement by Blizzard and their continual push with microtransactions which doesn't hurt their western market as much as you'd think but hurts the sizable contingent of asian gold farmers which are leaving due to their roles now being filled in a EULA authorized way by Blizzard itself. The fact it's been an economic low isn't that important to the western market because if I am not mistaken cable TV costs in the US quite a few times more per month than WoW does and WoW's principal audience is in the US.
3. F2P and alternate payment plan proponents are no more a freeloader than you, we just demand quality and demand the right to see that quality up front before offering money as a reward (trials can be fixed to be addicting as all fuck, if you do not believe me check the F2P up until 20 offer from Blizzard which if I am not mistaken came at the same time as Cataclysm which funnily enough revamped and made more attractive the 1->20 content, go figure).
4. ESO will be either DOA or face a good few years of growing pains at best. It is a game that shouldn't have ever existed and the developers are slowly realizing that (note their backpedaling from full fledged MMO to something akin to what Guild Wars 1 was but with less instancing).
The future belongs to F2P and its offspring, P2P is dying for a set of very good reasons (any number of which could make the subject of an entire thread but the most important would be: lack of friendliness towards emerging markets).
Originally posted by Kayo45 lol, "F2P is the future." A false statement which as far as I can remember I first started hearing from this very site ... you know, the one with F2P ads everywhere? Yet to this day new MMOs are still released P2P.
How many P2P games stay P2P "to this day"? There were a few released in only the last few years that went F2P in under a year. And people tell me MY comparisons to WoW are out of place. The reason WoW did so well was that A.) it was a good game, and B.) the majority of WoW numbers were already addicted before the economy went sour and probably would have sold their kids to keep playing. The other P2P's were basically trying to emulate WoW's success thinking it mattered what content they released and not when.
And what's with calling F2P'ers freeloaders? Some people spend more on F2P games than they ever do on P2P ones. Not me personally, if they give away games for free, I'd be kind of a stubborn idiot not to give them a shot. There's a lot of good free stuff on the internet, why stick to your guns so hard only to deprive yourself of entertainment?
Originally posted by Kayo45 lol, "F2P is the future." A false statement which as far as I can remember I first started hearing from this very site ... you know, the one with F2P ads everywhere? Yet to this day new MMOs are still released P2P.
How many P2P games stay P2P "to this day"? There were a few released in only the last few years that went F2P in under a year. And people tell me MY comparisons to WoW are out of place. The reason WoW did so well was that A.) it was a good game, and B.) the majority of WoW numbers were already addicted before the economy went sour and probably would have sold their kids to keep playing. The other P2P's were basically trying to emulate WoW's success thinking it mattered what content they released and not when.
And what's with calling F2P'ers freeloaders? Some people spend more on F2P games than they ever do on P2P ones. Not me personally, if they give away games for free, I'd be kind of a stubborn idiot not to give them a shot.
But they aren't giving it away for free, like you said some people spend more on F2P games than P2P games (not you personally). So they are giving it to you for free, in the hopes that you will be one of those people. But you aren't, you just play them for free and let others pay the developers salaries and development costs.
Originally posted by Kayo45 lol, "F2P is the future." A false statement which as far as I can remember I first started hearing from this very site ... you know, the one with F2P ads everywhere? Yet to this day new MMOs are still released P2P.
How many P2P games stay P2P "to this day"? There were a few released in only the last few years that went F2P in under a year. And people tell me MY comparisons to WoW are out of place. The reason WoW did so well was that A.) it was a good game, and B.) the majority of WoW numbers were already addicted before the economy went sour and probably would have sold their kids to keep playing. The other P2P's were basically trying to emulate WoW's success thinking it mattered what content they released and not when.
And what's with calling F2P'ers freeloaders? Some people spend more on F2P games than they ever do on P2P ones. Not me personally, if they give away games for free, I'd be kind of a stubborn idiot not to give them a shot. There's a lot of good free stuff on the internet, why stick to your guns so hard only to deprive yourself of entertainment?
Some part of my brain understands that if you break it down there is no real difference to the payment models. Example: I want that cool mount or armor. In sub model, I got and kill the boss or whatever that said item drops from until I get it. In F2P model I buy it from the shop. I'm still paying for the same thing essentially. Different ways of getting it yes but I'm still paying for the armor or whatever. However, my subscription pays for more.
Anyway, for me the difference is F2P is like the used car salesmen of the bunch. No offense to used car salesmen intended. SWTOR is the worst of them all. Want to hide your helmet? Bought a copy of the game when it was required to buy it and sub? We don't care! Pay us money to hide your helmet! Want to make your armor sync to your chest armor color like you could before? Great pay us more money! The worst ever! However, there are a lot of F2P games out there that do the same thing with different features they have. I'm sorry but the only thing SWTOR did right imo was the companions and the story and I would have rather had a single player game for that.
GW2 did it best with B2P but it just lacks something for me (I stress for me because I know a lot of people love GW2) that FFXIV has (again FOR ME). If FFXIV doesn't make money like so many people claim then I hope they go the GW2 route. However, I have a suspicion that they will be fine. I know many people are happy to pay a sub for a good game that receives regular updates and expansions. I've always suspected that these games are going F2P because they are one trick ponies that can't hold most gamers attention for more than a few months. SE could be wrong but if they are they can always change models like so many other companies out there.
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR Looking Forward to: Wildstar
F2P worked when it was rare. Remember when D&D when F2P? It was a big deal. Now the market is choked with F2P and nobody gives a crap.
Not true... MMOs that take on the F2P model has seen a big jump in the number of people who sub! Not just how many play but how many people P2P. Why? Because there is way to many MMOs out there and you dont know if they are good till you get to end game. To many bad games so now most MMOers wont try a game unless they get to really test drive it. SoE model is perfect for that. You dont need to sub till you are top level. FF14 will have to go some type of F2P model if they want to win a good % of the new player market. No need to do that for a year or so but they will make that move you watch and see. Its the way MMOs are going and FF14 will have their hands tied on this no matter how they want to do it.
Originally posted by MegaTrAN I've been in all the betas and I wouldn't pay a sub for this game.
if the only reason you'll play a game is because its free, then why play any game? obviously if you have been playing in all the beta's you must have been enjoying it or you wouldnt have continued after the first phase, so your post is really about your lack of willingness to pay, rather than a statement about the game.
I think is because people think that developers live only from air and river water. Remember kids, we don't need food, so don't pay for our services!
Make a good game and you will get paid
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
Do you have any examples of QUALITY mmos that have gone from p2p to f2p? Most were terrible, like SWTOR. Rift was good but went downhill and didn't offer much anyway that was different. The issue isn't with the payment model but the games. Swtor had a lot of subs at first showing that people are willing to pay monthly for games, but they didn't deliver any real value for the price. P2P games can still be successful if they provide good value, and i do think ffxiv has the potential to do that. Time will tell
Do you have any examples of QUALITY mmos that have gone from p2p to f2p? Most were terrible, like SWTOR. Rift was good but went downhill and didn't offer much anyway that was different. The issue isn't with the payment model but the games. Swtor had a lot of subs at first showing that people are willing to pay monthly for games, but they didn't deliver any real value for the price. P2P games can still be successful if they provide good value, and i do think ffxiv has the potential to do that. Time will tell
Lots of people love rift and SWToR is till holding at about 500k subs but if you wana talk about a MMO that didnt need to go F2P and did? LotR was just that game. Quality and lots of people playing. After they went F2P the number of people who subed went up. Not how many played the game but the number of people who pay a monthly fee went up. There is a reason why more and more MMOs are going with a F2P model. New players are willing to try their game and when they are hooked, they need to sub to join the end game community. You want a larger share of the new players you need to go F2P model. This market has changed just some dont see it yet. FF14 will make that change but not like GW2 where its always free. There will be a sub to join the end game community but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.
All I can say is that I am ecstatic that there is a subscription. GW2 convinced me that F2P and B2P are horrible payment models. It forces the devs into nonconsistent payments often stifling content. For the players it destroys the economy. Either way the devs need to get paid to keep content coming, I would rather them focus their efforts on quests for new items rather than focusing on creating boosts and vanity items to sell. At this point I am only playing subscription games, I only hope Yoshi stays true to his word and stays subscription in the long run.
but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.
Maybe. Maybe not. I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure. There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.
I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.
MMOS are either so old they go f2p to breathe life back into the game, or the devs are up to their necks in debt and investors want a roi asap. Theres also mmos that are just designed as f2p from the start. I wont predict the future of ffxiv's payment model. But they are in a position where they don't fall into any of the typical categories for going f2p. SE is doing great financially, the game is designed around a non cash shop system and it works, and they have already experienced a successful p2p model for years with ffxi. They never clamored to get more subs to ffxi I dont see them doing that with xiv.
Thats just my educated guess as to why this game will stay p2p. But who knows, really.
Comments
Trolls are loud. That's just the way it is. Games will always have trolls. When it's P2P, they are there. If the game goes F2P, they are there....but in bigger numbers, But since they always need to be heard, it's noticeable. It's unfortunate, but it's always the trolls who represent the community of the game to a passive player. Unless you go looking for the players you want to associate with in the community. But you have to go find them. They are there. There are decent players in WoW, they are in Rift, They are in NW, they are in GW2 they are in PWI and they will be in FF14.
Cant wait to hear what ESO plans to price their game at ... cant wait to see the "Subscription Based for real?" thread pop up on their forum, lol.
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
You might want to get your facts checked before you spout nonsense.
Lets see 1.0 launched and by week 2 they tolsd everyone they didnt have to pay, lasted that way for over a year. YOU check your trolling
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
You know the fact that every P2P MMO that has released recently has gone belly up and changed into F2P completely contradicts your statement. Not to mention that majority of upcoming MMOS (EQNEXT for example) are either F2P or B2P.
If you want to convince people that P2P is the future of MMOS you would need examples of successful P2P MMOS from recent years. Got any?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
There's a difference, uh....nevermind, it's pointless talking to you.
Thats just a % of the F2P players. Sure everyone thinks of the cry baby kids when they think of F2P and the begging and the endless Chuck Noris jokes in general chat. Here is the facts... there is a lot of people willing to pay for a game if its good but not till they have gotten to really try the game. a level 20 demo does nothing to show you the game with a MMO. You need to be able to get to end game and try it there. F2P system like SoE has lets you do just that and make a little money off them as well. When they are ready to join the end game community. Many companies are going F2P with this model because so many people get hooked on the game after spending a ton of time getting to top level and then sub because of that investment. Its smart business and the best way to win over people who dont know what MMO they want to play. This game will take on a model like this one day or it will shrink and shrink. Change or die, this is the new standard just not everyone knows it. It will become clear in the next few years.
I don't remember having a cashshop and charging people for stupid stuff. Square knew the game was lacking so they gave their valued customers an incentive to keep playing, until they worked out the kinks, what other company does this? They are more loyal to their fans than all those f2p game companies you play :P.
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1. F2P and more advanced forms than that of alternate payment ( example: giving over a portion of your PCs processing power to the devs for them to run number crunching operations which they in turn get paid for by another company) are the future, if you wanna P2P I hear EA still has the WoWized UO around for just that.
2. WoW has been dipping quite allot over the recession years thanks in large part to mismanagement by Blizzard and their continual push with microtransactions which doesn't hurt their western market as much as you'd think but hurts the sizable contingent of asian gold farmers which are leaving due to their roles now being filled in a EULA authorized way by Blizzard itself. The fact it's been an economic low isn't that important to the western market because if I am not mistaken cable TV costs in the US quite a few times more per month than WoW does and WoW's principal audience is in the US.
3. F2P and alternate payment plan proponents are no more a freeloader than you, we just demand quality and demand the right to see that quality up front before offering money as a reward (trials can be fixed to be addicting as all fuck, if you do not believe me check the F2P up until 20 offer from Blizzard which if I am not mistaken came at the same time as Cataclysm which funnily enough revamped and made more attractive the 1->20 content, go figure).
4. ESO will be either DOA or face a good few years of growing pains at best. It is a game that shouldn't have ever existed and the developers are slowly realizing that (note their backpedaling from full fledged MMO to something akin to what Guild Wars 1 was but with less instancing).
The future belongs to F2P and its offspring, P2P is dying for a set of very good reasons (any number of which could make the subject of an entire thread but the most important would be: lack of friendliness towards emerging markets).
How many P2P games stay P2P "to this day"? There were a few released in only the last few years that went F2P in under a year. And people tell me MY comparisons to WoW are out of place. The reason WoW did so well was that A.) it was a good game, and B.) the majority of WoW numbers were already addicted before the economy went sour and probably would have sold their kids to keep playing. The other P2P's were basically trying to emulate WoW's success thinking it mattered what content they released and not when.
And what's with calling F2P'ers freeloaders? Some people spend more on F2P games than they ever do on P2P ones. Not me personally, if they give away games for free, I'd be kind of a stubborn idiot not to give them a shot. There's a lot of good free stuff on the internet, why stick to your guns so hard only to deprive yourself of entertainment?
But they aren't giving it away for free, like you said some people spend more on F2P games than P2P games (not you personally). So they are giving it to you for free, in the hopes that you will be one of those people. But you aren't, you just play them for free and let others pay the developers salaries and development costs.
So what does that make you again?
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
F2P worked when it was rare. Remember when D&D when F2P? It was a big deal. Now the market is choked with F2P and nobody gives a crap.
So, you just admitted to being a freeloader :P.
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Agreed, this thread should be closed. It's really pointless now.
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Some part of my brain understands that if you break it down there is no real difference to the payment models. Example: I want that cool mount or armor. In sub model, I got and kill the boss or whatever that said item drops from until I get it. In F2P model I buy it from the shop. I'm still paying for the same thing essentially. Different ways of getting it yes but I'm still paying for the armor or whatever. However, my subscription pays for more.
Anyway, for me the difference is F2P is like the used car salesmen of the bunch. No offense to used car salesmen intended. SWTOR is the worst of them all. Want to hide your helmet? Bought a copy of the game when it was required to buy it and sub? We don't care! Pay us money to hide your helmet! Want to make your armor sync to your chest armor color like you could before? Great pay us more money! The worst ever! However, there are a lot of F2P games out there that do the same thing with different features they have. I'm sorry but the only thing SWTOR did right imo was the companions and the story and I would have rather had a single player game for that.
GW2 did it best with B2P but it just lacks something for me (I stress for me because I know a lot of people love GW2) that FFXIV has (again FOR ME). If FFXIV doesn't make money like so many people claim then I hope they go the GW2 route. However, I have a suspicion that they will be fine. I know many people are happy to pay a sub for a good game that receives regular updates and expansions. I've always suspected that these games are going F2P because they are one trick ponies that can't hold most gamers attention for more than a few months. SE could be wrong but if they are they can always change models like so many other companies out there.
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Looking Forward to: Wildstar
Not true... MMOs that take on the F2P model has seen a big jump in the number of people who sub! Not just how many play but how many people P2P. Why? Because there is way to many MMOs out there and you dont know if they are good till you get to end game. To many bad games so now most MMOers wont try a game unless they get to really test drive it. SoE model is perfect for that. You dont need to sub till you are top level. FF14 will have to go some type of F2P model if they want to win a good % of the new player market. No need to do that for a year or so but they will make that move you watch and see. Its the way MMOs are going and FF14 will have their hands tied on this no matter how they want to do it.
Make a good game and you will get paid
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
Do you have any examples of QUALITY mmos that have gone from p2p to f2p? Most were terrible, like SWTOR. Rift was good but went downhill and didn't offer much anyway that was different. The issue isn't with the payment model but the games. Swtor had a lot of subs at first showing that people are willing to pay monthly for games, but they didn't deliver any real value for the price. P2P games can still be successful if they provide good value, and i do think ffxiv has the potential to do that. Time will tell
Lots of people love rift and SWToR is till holding at about 500k subs but if you wana talk about a MMO that didnt need to go F2P and did? LotR was just that game. Quality and lots of people playing. After they went F2P the number of people who subed went up. Not how many played the game but the number of people who pay a monthly fee went up. There is a reason why more and more MMOs are going with a F2P model. New players are willing to try their game and when they are hooked, they need to sub to join the end game community. You want a larger share of the new players you need to go F2P model. This market has changed just some dont see it yet. FF14 will make that change but not like GW2 where its always free. There will be a sub to join the end game community but FF14 will be forced to make that change if they want to get their share of people looking for a new MMO.
Maybe. Maybe not. I think people were all about the whole B2P/F2P bandwagon last two years for sure. There's no denying that it certainly boosted sales for games in the short term.
I do however think that Neverwinter has turned a lot of people off the F2P model.
MMOS are either so old they go f2p to breathe life back into the game, or the devs are up to their necks in debt and investors want a roi asap. Theres also mmos that are just designed as f2p from the start.
I wont predict the future of ffxiv's payment model. But they are in a position where they don't fall into any of the typical categories for going f2p. SE is doing great financially, the game is designed around a non cash shop system and it works, and they have already experienced a successful p2p model for years with ffxi. They never clamored to get more subs to ffxi I dont see them doing that with xiv.
Thats just my educated guess as to why this game will stay p2p. But who knows, really.