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Elder Scrolls Online: All About Dungeons

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Comments

  • SethiusXSethiusX Toronto, ONPosts: 171Member
    Originally posted by Bjelar
    Originally posted by SethiusX

    If these "locales" are small, generally easy, and hardly needed to level or offer little reward, then people will mostly skip them. 

    What does that tell us about how fun the group content is in most games?

    Give me an option to skip it and I will, therefore games must FORCE people to group up.

    You could be right, but I suspect it tells us more about the state of the human mind. We naturally follow the path of least resistance, it's in our nature, and if we are offered one we take it. Not all will be like that, but I suspect many will. 

    I think the group content in many games is very engaging if only because you are conquering something together as a team, which presents its own challenges in and of itself, but the average player chooses to forgo that and level faster solo.

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,572Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SethiusX
    Originally posted by Bjelar
    Originally posted by SethiusX

    If these "locales" are small, generally easy, and hardly needed to level or offer little reward, then people will mostly skip them. 

    What does that tell us about how fun the group content is in most games?

    Give me an option to skip it and I will, therefore games must FORCE people to group up.

    You could be right, but I suspect it tells us more about the state of the human mind. We naturally follow the path of least resistance, it's in our nature, and if we are offered one we take it. Not all will be like that, but I suspect many will. 

    I think the group content in many games is very engaging if only because you are conquering something together as a team, which presents its own challenges in and of itself, but the average player chooses to forgo that and level faster solo.

    I think the opposite, If I have to ask for help I've taken the easy way out, I couldn't face the challenge on my own. I actually don't group with people because it's more challenging. I group up because it's more fun to play with/against people.

    image
  • SethiusXSethiusX Toronto, ONPosts: 171Member
    Originally posted by immodium
    Originally posted by SethiusX
    Originally posted by Bjelar
    Originally posted by SethiusX

    If these "locales" are small, generally easy, and hardly needed to level or offer little reward, then people will mostly skip them. 

    What does that tell us about how fun the group content is in most games?

    Give me an option to skip it and I will, therefore games must FORCE people to group up.

    You could be right, but I suspect it tells us more about the state of the human mind. We naturally follow the path of least resistance, it's in our nature, and if we are offered one we take it. Not all will be like that, but I suspect many will. 

    I think the group content in many games is very engaging if only because you are conquering something together as a team, which presents its own challenges in and of itself, but the average player chooses to forgo that and level faster solo.

    I think the opposite, If I have to ask for help I've taken the easy way out, I couldn't face the challenge on my own. I actually don't group with people because it's more challenging. I group up because it's more fun to play with/against people.

    I think we're talking about games where you can solo all the way to end game (which I realize is the majority of current MMO's). Why would you bother to group, save for fun as you said, if you can muscle your way through the game on your own? It's time consuming to deal with others if it's not needed, and time is money friend. This is a blanket statement, and your mileage may vary, but in general arranging others to do stuff together takes time.

    Why complete that challenging group quest for 10k exp, when I can do 5 quests in the same time that offer 3k exp each? In MMO's, time = challenge (a sad truth).

    WoW's LFD is a good example of group content that offers little or no challenge. People do it because it is the path of least resistance to leveling. Soloing is actually harder (which doesn't say much), and as a result, the LFD has become a very easy and quick way to level. This seems good on the surface because now people do group content, but to entice people into doing the group content Blizzard had to gut the soul right out of grouping. It had to be easier/faster than the solo method in order to make it appealing and that, I think, highlights the terrible state MMO's are in.

    In the end, give me group content that is far more rewarding than solo content, for time invested, and I will do it. I enjoy challenge, but the reward is what drives it. I like the solo option to be available, but make it very slow compared to grouping. That is my preference. BUT, people will probably call that forced grouping and get angry anyway. I do pity the MMO's dev's out there to some degree, as it must be nigh on impossible to please us all ;)

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,572Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SethiusX

    I think we're talking about games where you can solo all the way to end game (which I realize is the majority of current MMO's). Why would you bother to group, save for fun as you said, if you can muscle your way through the game on your own? It's time consuming to deal with others if it's not needed, and time is money friend. This is a blanket statement, and your mileage may vary, but in general arranging others to do stuff together takes time.

    Why complete that challenging group quest for 10k exp, when I can do 5 quests in the same time that offer 3k exp each? In MMO's, time = challenge (a sad truth).

    WoW's LFD is a good example of group content that offers little or no challenge. People do it because it is the path of least resistance to leveling. Soloing is actually harder (which doesn't say much), and as a result, the LFD has become a very easy and quick way to level. This seems good on the surface because now people do group content, but to entice people into doing the group content Blizzard had to gut the soul right out of grouping. It had to be easier/faster than the solo method in order to make it appealing and that, I think, highlights the terrible state MMO's are in.

    In the end, give me group content that is far more rewarding than solo content, for time invested, and I will do it. I enjoy challenge, but the reward is what drives it. I like the solo option to be available, but make it very slow compared to grouping. That is my preference. BUT, people will probably call that forced grouping and get angry anyway. I do pity the MMO's dev's out there to some degree, as it must be nigh on impossible to please us all ;)

    I actually agree with you that in MMO's grouping should have more benefits/rewards than soloing. Personally, when it comes to multiplayer games I'm a PvPer, that's where the challenges lies for me. I have no interest in PvE TBH, I'll do it when I want a break from PvP. So IMO, PvP'ers should be rewarded more :). A hell of a lot more if they are actually soloing PvP.

    Also, coming from a PvP background with no progression (FPS) I'm not bothered about rewards for doing it. I'll just find a good PvP guild and have fun fighting in a team, against a team. Like going to play sports with friends, I don't need a reward afterwards for doing it, it was just fun.

    Like you said though, it does boil down to time for most gamers now.

    EDIT: Might seem weird why I just don't stick to FPS then, I do enjoy the 'worlds' MMORPG's offer and I'm really enjoying character progression/skill systems most FPS lack. And TBH, I'm burned out playing FPS.

    image
  • SethiusXSethiusX Toronto, ONPosts: 171Member
    Originally posted by immodium
    Originally posted by SethiusX

    I think we're talking about games where you can solo all the way to end game (which I realize is the majority of current MMO's). Why would you bother to group, save for fun as you said, if you can muscle your way through the game on your own? It's time consuming to deal with others if it's not needed, and time is money friend. This is a blanket statement, and your mileage may vary, but in general arranging others to do stuff together takes time.

    Why complete that challenging group quest for 10k exp, when I can do 5 quests in the same time that offer 3k exp each? In MMO's, time = challenge (a sad truth).

    WoW's LFD is a good example of group content that offers little or no challenge. People do it because it is the path of least resistance to leveling. Soloing is actually harder (which doesn't say much), and as a result, the LFD has become a very easy and quick way to level. This seems good on the surface because now people do group content, but to entice people into doing the group content Blizzard had to gut the soul right out of grouping. It had to be easier/faster than the solo method in order to make it appealing and that, I think, highlights the terrible state MMO's are in.

    In the end, give me group content that is far more rewarding than solo content, for time invested, and I will do it. I enjoy challenge, but the reward is what drives it. I like the solo option to be available, but make it very slow compared to grouping. That is my preference. BUT, people will probably call that forced grouping and get angry anyway. I do pity the MMO's dev's out there to some degree, as it must be nigh on impossible to please us all ;)

    I actually agree with you that in MMO's grouping should have more benefits/rewards than soloing. Personally, when it comes to multiplayer games I'm a PvPer, that's where the challenges lies for me. I have no interest in PvE TBH, I'll do it when I want a break from PvP. So IMO, PvP'ers should be rewarded more :). A hell of a lot more if they are actually soloing PvP.

    Also, coming from a PvP background with no progression (FPS) I'm not bothered about rewards for doing it. I'll just find a good PvP guild and have fun fighting in a team, against a team. Like going to play sports with friends, I don't need a reward afterwards for doing it, it was just fun.

    Like you said though, it does boil down to time for most gamers now.

    EDIT: Might seem weird why I just don't stick to FPS then, I do enjoy the 'worlds' MMORPG's offer and I'm really enjoying character progression/skill systems most FPS lack. And TBH, I'm burned out playing FPS.

    It takes all types. I think that FPS players typically are more accepting of mmo's that make the reward the fun, like GW2 (which was very fun). People that come from an RPG background, like myself, savor those juicy rewards, like getting the top gear in WoW.

    Of course, there is much more too it, but the gameplay of an MMO isn't typically as satisfying due to technology constraints (or so that was in the past, today they are improving), so developer's had to give players something to strive for. It created a culture that has yet to change. Perhaps it shouldn't. We may be bored of the distinct flavor of MMO's, but that doesn't mean we want to lose it altogether. We just want to season it properly.

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