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POLL: Should races have major impact on classes?

GholosGholos GenovaPosts: 209Member

Do you think that races characteristics scores and abilities should play an important role on how a class work or not?

I think that some races should be more adapt than others to chose a specific class, so for example an ogre warrior should be a better tank than an halfling warrior, have more hp, but an halfling warrior should be more difficult to hit due his little size and so on.

So i think that race's characteristic scores and abilities should have a big importance even at higher levels, this mean that item's stats dont have to raise too much characteristics of your PC.

 

I vote: YES

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"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.

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Comments

  • LorskaLorska Portland, ORPosts: 74Member

    I vote yes, so long as long as there wasn't a clear winner that all min-maxers would play 100% of the time. 

     

    I'm for there being distinct differences between different races playing the same class, but not for one to be head and shoulders better than it than the rest. 

  • WaterlilyWaterlily parisPosts: 2,973Member Uncommon

    I voted no. I want it to be like in EQ.

    Yes in EQ some classes were better at tanking in the beginning, Iksars had an AC bonus and Orges iirc had melee stun immunity or something.

    But these advantages were minuscule and became meaningless over time. Every race got melee stun immunity through AA and the AC bonus became meaningless once you geared up.

    I don't mind advantages in the beginning, an Ogre will be better at tanking at the start, but eventually a Wood Elf will have learned to avoid a stun too...so it should even out.

    I don't want to do content where someone tells you: "hey we need an Ogre now because the mob chain stuns"...uhm...give me stun immunity like the Ogre so I can tank.

  • ArkainArkain Tampa, FLPosts: 490Member Uncommon
    I voted yes, your race should not be just a vanity item.

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  • asdarasdar Tequesta, FLPosts: 662Member Uncommon

    I voted No. (but not a hard no)

    I'd rather have races unable to play certain classes than have races that are gimped at certain classes. EQ eventually got to the point that most races could play a warrior, but right up through Luclin a human warrior couldn't touch an ogre warrior. Part of that was that with complete heal the HP multiplied so that even a hundred HP mattered.

    If you're going to give a race a class then let them have an equal shot. I like the idea of differences, as long as those differences are something close to even.

    Asdar

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon

    Personally, and ideally to me, I would like to see this as the motivating factor for why there are more ogre warriors than mages for example.

    I'm all about freedom of choice and not making players pick certain classes if they choose a certain race.  But I also like games where some races are naturally better at some things and as a result those races tend to have more of those types of classes being played.

    It adds to variety and gives a lot more opportunity for roleplay and fun in my opinion.

    I get the downside, the reverse has its merits - but its a matter of opinion.

  • flizzerflizzer Manchester, NHPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    Voting no.  You will see every class with a certain race at that point.  As long as you have even a slight difference I expect you will have one race that will be played with a certain class.  I would rather see different race and class combinations. 
  • sirphobossirphobos Ames, IAPosts: 614Member Common

    They should have an impact, but not a MAJOR impact, so I would have to vote no the way this question is asked.

    in EQ1, different races had different starting stats, but the difference wasn't enough to force someone into playing an Ogre or Troll warrior over a Halfling warrior, or an Erudite magician over a Human magician, and at high levels due to gear your starting stats were essentially irrelevant.

    I did like the fact that each race had their own little pluses and minuses, like the Dark Elf innate ultravision, Gnome tinkering, Troll regeneration bonus, etc.

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member

    I voted no because you worded it incorrectly.

    I think race should have a nice impact on how the class plays, but an "Ogre warrior should not be BETTER than other races".  It should be Different from other races.

    So maybe an Ogre warrior hits a little harder, has immunity or resistance to getting stunned/knocked down.....

    But maybe a Gnome warrior runs faster in combat, has a chance to avoid being hit all together, etc.

    So race should* play a major role in how that class  ends up playing, but Better is not the word I'd use.

    Different, but balanced would be better wordage.

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  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob lexington, KYPosts: 871Member

    IMO all those games where racial abilities have a massive effect on the character do, is restrict/hamper player choice.

    "Want to be a warrior?  Sure you can gimp yourself and play one of these other races...it'll be playable.   But if you want to do it right, just pick one of these two."  

     

    Rather they all just be cosmetic so people are encouraged to play what they like.

     

     

  • newbinatornewbinator LA, CAPosts: 780Member
    I prefer racial abilities over just stat modifiers based on race. I think WoW is pretty good in this regard.
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by asdar
    I voted No. (but not a hard no)I'd rather have races unable to play certain classes than have races that are gimped at certain classes. EQ eventually got to the point that most races could play a warrior, but right up through Luclin a human warrior couldn't touch an ogre warrior. Part of that was that with complete heal the HP multiplied so that even a hundred HP mattered.If you're going to give a race a class then let them have an equal shot. I like the idea of differences, as long as those differences are something close to even.

    This sounds good to me. Gnome warriors in WoW always bothered me.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Gallus85

    I voted no because you worded it incorrectly.

    I think race should have a nice impact on how the class plays, but an "Ogre warrior should not be BETTER than other races".  It should be Different from other races.

    So maybe an Ogre warrior hits a little harder, has immunity or resistance to getting stunned/knocked down.....

    But maybe a Gnome warrior runs faster in combat, has a chance to avoid being hit all together, etc.

    So race should* play a major role in how that class  ends up playing, but Better is not the word I'd use.

    Different, but balanced would be better wordage.

    Yeah I agree with this. Small races should get better avoidance, big races more resistance / health. Adding slightly modified spells for different races is always cool too, like what they did in Vanguard and in vanilla WoW.

  • rlsquared2rlsquared2 Weston, FLPosts: 17Member Uncommon
    Yes, adds to the RPG experience.

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  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member

    If it's tied to theme, I don't care what they decide.

    I want to feel like I'm stepping into a world.  That includes cultural societal relevance.  Where you start your character should have just as much influence, if not more than your race.  A wood elf living in the city would have a better chance of being a thief and learning pick pocketing, than one starting in a forest somewhere.  Let the choices make sense.  Let them be tied to theme.  This cookie cutter, meta-game BS of everyone's equal has got to go.  Theme needs to trump all.  That includes race/cultural advantages.

     

  • RoguewizRoguewiz Lampasas, TXPosts: 614Member Uncommon

    No.  There are other ways to have character distinction beyond "This race is the best < insert class here >"

    I can with almost 100% certainty say that if X race is the best at Y class, I'm playing X race.  I don't want that.

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  • UtinniUtinni Richmond, VAPosts: 381Member Uncommon
    I honestly liked the exp penalties associated with the greater race benefits. This gives the true min-maxers something to earn. Iksar was soooo much stronger than the other races in the first 30 levels, especially when you didnt have twink gear. 
  • wizardanimwizardanim Apple Valley, CAPosts: 278Member

    I voted yes because I want to see very robust character creation - however, i'm still skeptical of how they plan to organize/balance classes.

    A character is a single entity - as they are a culmination of race abilities, class abilities, and acquired abilities (items/quests/etc).  If there is PVP, a consideration for what advantages each of these abilities would be necessary - I don't want to see a million of one race only because their racial abilities give them a big edge.  If anything, games have dulled down racial abilities and augmented class abilities.  In EQ1, iksar HP regen never scaled with content, and toward higher level content didn't make much of a difference but shaman HP regen spells were fantastic - why should a racial ability like this scale? it would change the character entirely.

    Not to say that having strong racial abilities is wrong. In my opinion just very difficult to incorporate. 

  • GholosGholos GenovaPosts: 209Member
    Originally posted by Gallus85

    I voted no because you worded it incorrectly.

    I think race should have a nice impact on how the class plays, but an "Ogre warrior should not be BETTER than other races".  It should be Different from other races.

    So maybe an Ogre warrior hits a little harder, has immunity or resistance to getting stunned/knocked down.....

    But maybe a Gnome warrior runs faster in combat, has a chance to avoid being hit all together, etc.

    So race should* play a major role in how that class  ends up playing, but Better is not the word I'd use.

    Different, but balanced would be better wordage.

    I havent worded incorrectly, i have intend exactly BETTER, cause an ogre, for me, is supposed to have class restrictions so he should be better in some roles than a race that can play all classes. I think that an ogre should not play, for example, a thief or a wizard but if he could, he have to be less efficient than an halfing thiel or an elf wizard.

    I think like a pen and paper rp gamer, so for example if i play a merchant i will prefer to have an ogre bodyguard than an halfling.

    I know that my perspective could not fit a MMO game, but i would like to see this approach in EQN.

    image


    "Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
    -Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    I would say: Maybe. Depends.

    Are you stuck with your choices forever (1995) or will you be changing either/any/many of them later on (2005)?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    I don't like games where every warrior is an oger and every mage is an elf, every thief a gnome or halfling. Giving racial abilities is fine but when they make a race the obvious best choice for a class it means far too many people walking around all looking/being the same character.
  • theAsnatheAsna AsnatownPosts: 321Member

     

    The poll is too much black & white.

     

    In the end it comes down to the campaign setting and lore. There is often a certain rationale behind class and race restrictions (e.g. a certain class doesn't fit into the "lifestyle" of a certain race). In P&P you can handle this in a more flexible way. The Dungeon Master may allow exceptions as he sees fit. But the player has better come up with a reasonable explanation/background story.

     

    In a single player game it is sort of an exception (since only one player is interacting with the game world).

     

    In an MMO things look different. People will base their class and race choices on other criteria. So it can happen if you allow an "exotic combination" it might end up a popular combination (e.g. because it has advantages in PvP or PvE).

  • BamboozledBamboozled Minneapolis, MNPosts: 29Member

    I vote yes, with the caveat that it needs to be balanced.

     

    Your example of the Ogre vs the Halfling is right on. You balance the ability to withstand a hit vs the ability to avoid it. Which lends itself better to other classes, but can be applied to a warrior and create an "avoidance tank" like the warrior class in Tera.

     

    I think that races lend to the ability to create cultures for the specific race, these cultures can be warlike, tribal, traders, nomads, smugglers, who knows. But it allows for more stories and RP opportunities, especially when dealing with other races.

     

    Your class is your profession, your race is your history and how you are perceived by the world.

    “He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

    - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Bamboozled

    Your class is your profession, your race is your history and how you are perceived by the world.

    As long as you're not operating alterations to either, at will, as a profit center (and a Big one).

     

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • VidirVidir GothenburgPosts: 944Member Uncommon
    I vote no since I want to be able to play any class but I could not play a character looking like a cow , lizard or something.
  • BamboozledBamboozled Minneapolis, MNPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Bamboozled

    Your class is your profession, your race is your history and how you are perceived by the world.

    As long as you're not operating alterations to either, at will, as a profit center (and a Big one).

     

    Lol, Your poll is awesome. Here is me hoping that won't be the case.

    “He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

    - Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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