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(POLL): RAIDING- how important is this to you?

124

Comments

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Oak Brook, MIPosts: 673Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    [mod edit]

    Only if you allow those people into your guild in the first place, and/or keep them in it after they demonstrate what they are.

    If a guild has such issues, it's poorly lead.

  • AntariousAntarious Greenville, SCPosts: 2,802Member

    I would say raiding is of zero importance to *me*.

     

    That said... the reason I don't like raiding may not be the usual one.

     

    My first MMO was Ultima Online...  In that game I loved PvP, Exploring etc  Yet I spent tons of time crafting and had a merchant where I met a lot of people buying my stuff.   Which is why I hate raids... because they become the only real source of equipment and no real crafting economy exists.

     

    Obviously I know that there are a lot of people who wish to raid.. so I would like to see a way those two things could co-exist.. and I don't mean by putting crafting resources inside raids and alienating the crafters who can't get invited to those.

    Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Adelaide, AKPosts: 953Member
    Raiding as we know it needs to change, right now in most games Raid content is under utilized & wasted. IMHO what needs to happen is raids need to be scalable so they can be tackled by small groups (4-6), large groups (7-12) & Raid parties (12-24) the last to could scale up to 30 players but I think the days of huge WOW raids are over.

    So you setup your raid instances to scale challenge & gear based on party size but try to preserve the mechanics of complex boss fights as much as possible. On gear perhaps give the same gear at each tied however at 4-6 players the gear only would have stats to affect the player, at 7-12 the gear would have the same player stats as well as group increases/bonuses of some sort. At full raid you'd have the same personal stats on gear plus the highest group increases/bonuses attainable.

    This way more players see the content & therefore more raid content gets built.
  • nothuman24nothuman24 Phoenix, AZPosts: 36Member
    8 for me. If a mmo is worth its salt, it will have open-world raid bosses that vary in difficulty and required players. That said, if a mmo does not host diverse enough raid content, I would rather raids not be a major factor in regards to the economy and shiz.
  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member

    Not saying raiding is bad, but....

    S-A-N-D-B-O-X game.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member

    6-7

     

    I'm not really a fan of building houses, so that isn't really for me.

     

    I like PvE, but what am I going to do when I'm max level? I'm kind of confused by the suspicion of "PvE faction warfare" So if we support different Factions, I can only attack the NPC's and not the players if its some faction warfare event? A who can kill the NPC's the fastest war? Little confused by that suspicion.

     

    If some D-Bag is casting meteors and destroying the world (Smedley used it as an example of destroying parts of the world with powerful enough spells, like WoW: Cataclysm) all I can do is watch him? "Dude dont attack my PvE faction vendors, please stop!!111!"

     

    To me that means if there are no worthwhile raids, that there needs to be a form of PvP that is not just "Hey dude /duel". That isnt enough for me. There needs to be one -- More elaborate PvP, or worthwhile PvE stuff.

     

    let's be real -- If this game is a tab target game (I think most people believe it will be) gear will be the determining factor in combat.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Been there done that, got the T-Shirt.

    Raid scripts are just bordering on the ridiculous these days to try and keep them challenging. I think its time to focus on PvP as end game, something that can provide a dynamic challenge rather than a stale strategy pinata.

  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by evilastro

    Been there done that, got the T-Shirt.

    Raid scripts are just bordering on the ridiculous these days to try and keep them challenging. I think its time to focus on PvP as end game, something that can provide a dynamic challenge rather than a stale strategy pinata.

    What is PvP end-game?

     

    I dont see how open world PvP is really an end-game. When I think of PvP end-game, I think of tournaments/eSports.

     

    And even if it was a vicious grind, getting Grand Marshall in Vanilla WoW by grinding your eyes out in Battlegrounds.

     

    I wouldn't expect either to be endorsed in EQN, not sure how open world PvP end-game has longevity if there are no raids worth doing in todays MMORPG market.

     

    There are A LOOOT of people who want something to work for. You can laugh, but even if they never reach the max, they just want to know that it's there. "Well what do I do when I'm max level?" "Have fun" "What is there to do to have fun? "Build houses? Kill monsters that don't matter? Casuals quit faster than "hardcore" players do. And if casuals have everything the game has to offer, they move because they arent dedicated to it, they'll move onto the next hot thing.

     

    A lot of people arent into the whole housing thing.

     

    Just remember: If it weren't for Hardcore players, EQ1 and EQ2 would already be shut down. Even though I'd never play those games now, remember that. Hardcore players of a specific game go down to the bitter end where they slowly trickle into non-affordable numbers to support.

     

     

  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Phoenix, AZPosts: 823Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Greez
    Originally posted by AG-Vuk
    S raiding is an extremely important part of MMO's, otherwise you should be hanging out in chat rooms and playing single player games.

    This makes absolutely no sense. Raiding is fundamentally not an MMO experience - raids occur in instances, which means you are not in contact with most of the server's population. A 10 player, 20 player, even 40 player game is not massive. If anything, YOU raiders should be hanging out in browser games where raiding is all you do all day.

    Sorry not sure how old you are or your previous gaming experience , but a lot of my raid experience wasn't instanced.  Example: Go play Vanguard , there are roaming open world basses that require 20 - 24 people to complete. But hey, why let a little thing like your lack of knowledge and experience get in the way of what you perceive as fact. ( Vanguard has it's flaws , but the raid bosses have some fun mechanics )  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVuYlOL3Hc Not the best example vid , but the overland bosses are shown, as is some APW which is instanced.

    image
  • BBPD766BBPD766 Boynton Beach, FLPosts: 97Member
    Originally posted by jdnyc

    Not saying raiding is bad, but....

    S-A-N-D-B-O-X game.

    Yeah......and.....?

  • SlavakkSlavakk Melrose Park, ILPosts: 36Member
    I chose 7... I'm far more into PvP than Raiding.. I do enjoy raiding through.. but most of all I do love crashing raids on contested epic raid mobs!!!
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,614Member Uncommon

    Raiding is repeatable content that is always, more or less, the same, designed to keep us amused until new content is developed... sort of like eating all of the ice cream and then playing a game with the empty tub... it can be a fun game, but really, where is my ice cream dude!

    Surely in 2013, something can be designed that has no "end game" and makes the need for traditional instanced raids with locks obsolete... perhaps an ever changing game where you can ever quest? I can always hope.

  • wizardanimwizardanim Apple Valley, CAPosts: 278Member

    Voted a 5.  

    I have loved certain kinds of raids in EQ, and some of their original mechanics.  For me, the existence of raids is important, but raids are not what make a game good.  

    I want the game to establish itself (in my mind) before I consider raiding.  My group of friends would need to know the game well before we would make that push.

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by jdnyc

    Not saying raiding is bad, but....

    S-A-N-D-B-O-X game.

    There can be raids in sandbox games.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar drummondville, QCPosts: 7,987Member
    Instanced raiding?a la wow?boring!raiding open world it is actually fun.like in tsw there are raiding area on each map and all are open world (at least it look this way.saw a group run in tried to follow (lol)a scrub zombie ran after me an one hit killed me lol.anyhow I love open world raid and the fact mob are dynamic and aggressive means you will see potential banker arrive.
  • Dwarfman420Dwarfman420 Kazoo, MIPosts: 207Member

    I liked "Doom Dungeon" in Ultima Online for a way to get really nice items while not having to commit on a weekly schedule to a raid guild.

    It was a Gauntlet of boss type mobs that everyone who was there would fight and take down, then the "Dark Father" for the final boss was always a challenge (specially if you didnt cut those bone piles).

    Every boss mob (& Dark Father) had a chance of droping an artifact. Artifacts were weapons or armor miles ahead of items you could get through hunting hunting normal mobs or crafting. If a boss mob did drop an artifact, it then put everyone into a pool that did enough dmg to claim loot rights. Rng would commence and then one of those people would have an artifact drop into their bag.

    For a sandbox, this gave me the option for higher end gear without having to commit/raid. Some people didnt care for it but then that was their option. They could always buy those artifacts off a vendor @ a price set by the player. No boe/bop/b2account nonsense.

    Just a thought

  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob lexington, KYPosts: 871Member
    If every MMO from now on was made without me having to schedule events in advance with a whole bunch of people repeatedly because that's the only way to get the best gear, I would be very happy.
  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon

    I play MMORPG for roleplaying ,  if there is no roleplaying in the game then the game will suck like all other fail mmo's.

     

    I don't mean roleplay as in  Thou hath art thee farted .

     

    I mean roleplay as in you become your character and forget about who you are but who your character is . Immersion .

     

    Not many games have this these days ,voice chat kinda ruined a lot of Immersion , especially when some whiney kid starts moaning about how they didn't get their phat lewts from boss X .

     

     

  • VoqarVoqar Phoenix, AZPosts: 498Member

    IMO, if EQN is heavily solo like most next to useless modern MMORPGs, it'll be nothing special.  It might be something to check out, but it'll never be the next big thing. No heavily solo MMO will ever be the next big thing because solo is not what MMOs are about at the core.  This is why most of the heavily solo MMOs fail to retain players - the soloists finish the single player content and move on, while the core players, the groupers, don't have enough to do because the devs spent all their time on 3 weeks worth of single player content, and they leave disappointed eventually.

     

    What this genre BADLY needs is to flip content around.

     

    Instead of 99% solo with optional/rare outdoor elite content and an instance every few levels, make it so that content that can be soloed is the 1% and that to level you MUST group or take years to cap.  Like old EQ, without the suck of camp and grind.  Make leveling be an accomplishment again instead of just a few days or weeks of trivial easy mode.

     

    IMO, if you want to solo, please don't play MMORPGs, stick to single player games where you freaking logically belong.  Trust me, the world will get by without your not-so-witty public chat spam - and you are adding nothing else to MMO communities since most soloists don't join real guilds or interact with long term players - they just flit and selfishly do their own thing.

     

    Beyond that, I think raiding is critically important, because assuming the game is heavily group oriented and not yet another glorified single player game (most MMOs these days retain players for 3 months or less because the soloists finish the single player campaign and go away, then the game dies, and the devs wonder, gee, I don't know wtf happened, maybe it's because we have almost no group content and people can level to cap in 3 days with zero effort, I dunno...gee...maybe)...

     

    ...anyways, assuming this isn't yet another solo suckfest for pansies, and people are grouping a lot, then raiding is the natural evolution of grouping for endgame, and is pretty much the only way you retain players for years and years.  Players stick around when there's constant progression and content to tackle.  The other endgame diversions add spice and variety but aren't the kind of thing that will keep players invested and around for prolonged periods of time.

     

    I *hope* that when SOE talks old school that they're wanting to make a game that people can sink their teeth into and that holds one's attention for more than a few months.  I think that's what some of us are wanting.  A departure from the MMORPG design that features heavy solo ez mode that good players mow thru effortlessly no matter slow you try to take it, then you devour and are thru endgame and the whole game within a few months, and then there's nothing really to do because devs don't crank out enough group content fast enough, instead they go TSW/Funlesscom on you and spend 2 months making single player content that players vaporize in 2 hours and then wonder why people are steadily bailing.

     

    (I got a few friends into The Secret World after we quickly bored of the GW2 solo/snooze-fest with craptastic grouping and we loved it.  IMO TSW has some of the best content in MMORPGs and a slick character development system.  It also has some of the best instances ever - heavy focus on bosses with little to no trash - no wasted time, just fun boss fights.  And it has a slick gear progression system at the end when you start doing the hardest instances that lets you grow instead of constantly replacing gear.  Problem is, it really doesn't take that much time to get thru it all.   One raid with one boss on top of instances wasn't enough.  Once you get thru that first bit of progression, it's game over.  And instead of growing and expanding on the endgame system, which TONS of players participate in, they instead spent month after month putting together bits of single player content, all of which players can mow down in a few hours.  It is the kind of moronic design that keeps Funcom at the bottom of the MMO pile.  Let's see, spend 1-3 months making an "issue" full of single player content that the average player does once in 2-6 hours or spend the same amount of time on some new instances and bumping the gear curve that'll keep tons of players busy for weeks/months...gee...let's really crunch on this...WHAT OH WHAT should we do...oh I know, let's spend months at a time making solo only content repeatedly and lose all the new players we got thru F2P in addition to all our early long gone players.  Sigh.)

     

    Most MMOs that aren't Rift (since Trion put out inhuman amounts of content and features that should embarrass the entire rest of the genre's devs) that've come out since WoW have had similar problems.  Try to be everything for everyone.  Too much reliance on solo content.  Decent release numbers.  3 months or so later, heavy decline in population.  Wonder why?

     

    EQ had xpac after xpac of raid progression.  EQ2 had raids.  There will be raids.  You can bet on it.  Every good MMORPG has had raids.  (Side note, I don't consider GW2 to be a good MMORPG, so while it's popular, it's more like a massively single player online game, perfect for confused players who think they want to solo a lot in massively multiplayer games!)

     

    Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  • krulerkruler PerthPosts: 340Member Uncommon

    Polled zero have played from around week 2/ first month of EQ1, I took part in no more than 3 raids in that time and hated every minute of them, and seeing as I mostly play a Necro, I raised my middle digit up at the whole bollocks that is lazy assed content and went off and did many many different things instead.

    Raid progression for the sake of raid progression is so F/ing retarded.

     

    Oh and comments that Raids are critically important are obviously posted by work shy programmers trying to justify their existence..A  Raid is only important if you want to go onto another Raid, it provides a high end time sink and saves on allot of actual content.  

    There is no God, there is no Devil, nor Angels and Demons, there is only us, surely thats bad enough, for no creature is able to commit such acts of hate and love, sometimes in the same day.

  • UtinniUtinni Richmond, VAPosts: 380Member Uncommon
    They're adding instanced, lesser loot versions of contested world bosses to EQ2. I wonder if they want this in EQN also? You could have a raiding schedule and still have world bosses.
  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Voqar

    IMO, if EQN is heavily solo like most next to useless modern MMORPGs, it'll be nothing special.  It might be something to check out, but it'll never be the next big thing. No heavily solo MMO will ever be the next big thing because solo is not what MMOs are about at the core.  This is why most of the heavily solo MMOs fail to retain players - the soloists finish the single player content and move on, while the core players, the groupers, don't have enough to do because the devs spent all their time on 3 weeks worth of single player content, and they leave disappointed eventually.

     

    What this genre BADLY needs is to flip content around.

     

    Instead of 99% solo with optional/rare outdoor elite content and an instance every few levels, make it so that content that can be soloed is the 1% and that to level you MUST group or take years to cap.  Like old EQ, without the suck of camp and grind.  Make leveling be an accomplishment again instead of just a few days or weeks of trivial easy mode.

     

    IMO, if you want to solo, please don't play MMORPGs, stick to single player games where you freaking logically belong.  Trust me, the world will get by without your not-so-witty public chat spam - and you are adding nothing else to MMO communities since most soloists don't join real guilds or interact with long term players - they just flit and selfishly do their own thing.

     

    Beyond that, I think raiding is critically important, because assuming the game is heavily group oriented and not yet another glorified single player game (most MMOs these days retain players for 3 months or less because the soloists finish the single player campaign and go away, then the game dies, and the devs wonder, gee, I don't know wtf happened, maybe it's because we have almost no group content and people can level to cap in 3 days with zero effort, I dunno...gee...maybe)...

     

    ...anyways, assuming this isn't yet another solo suckfest for pansies, and people are grouping a lot, then raiding is the natural evolution of grouping for endgame, and is pretty much the only way you retain players for years and years.  Players stick around when there's constant progression and content to tackle.  The other endgame diversions add spice and variety but aren't the kind of thing that will keep players invested and around for prolonged periods of time.

     

    I *hope* that when SOE talks old school that they're wanting to make a game that people can sink their teeth into and that holds one's attention for more than a few months.  I think that's what some of us are wanting.  A departure from the MMORPG design that features heavy solo ez mode that good players mow thru effortlessly no matter slow you try to take it, then you devour and are thru endgame and the whole game within a few months, and then there's nothing really to do because devs don't crank out enough group content fast enough, instead they go TSW/Funlesscom on you and spend 2 months making single player content that players vaporize in 2 hours and then wonder why people are steadily bailing.

     

    (I got a few friends into The Secret World after we quickly bored of the GW2 solo/snooze-fest with craptastic grouping and we loved it.  IMO TSW has some of the best content in MMORPGs and a slick character development system.  It also has some of the best instances ever - heavy focus on bosses with little to no trash - no wasted time, just fun boss fights.  And it has a slick gear progression system at the end when you start doing the hardest instances that lets you grow instead of constantly replacing gear.  Problem is, it really doesn't take that much time to get thru it all.   One raid with one boss on top of instances wasn't enough.  Once you get thru that first bit of progression, it's game over.  And instead of growing and expanding on the endgame system, which TONS of players participate in, they instead spent month after month putting together bits of single player content, all of which players can mow down in a few hours.  It is the kind of moronic design that keeps Funcom at the bottom of the MMO pile.  Let's see, spend 1-3 months making an "issue" full of single player content that the average player does once in 2-6 hours or spend the same amount of time on some new instances and bumping the gear curve that'll keep tons of players busy for weeks/months...gee...let's really crunch on this...WHAT OH WHAT should we do...oh I know, let's spend months at a time making solo only content repeatedly and lose all the new players we got thru F2P in addition to all our early long gone players.  Sigh.)

     

    Most MMOs that aren't Rift (since Trion put out inhuman amounts of content and features that should embarrass the entire rest of the genre's devs) that've come out since WoW have had similar problems.  Try to be everything for everyone.  Too much reliance on solo content.  Decent release numbers.  3 months or so later, heavy decline in population.  Wonder why?

     

    EQ had xpac after xpac of raid progression.  EQ2 had raids.  There will be raids.  You can bet on it.  Every good MMORPG has had raids.  (Side note, I don't consider GW2 to be a good MMORPG, so while it's popular, it's more like a massively single player online game, perfect for confused players who think they want to solo a lot in massively multiplayer games!)

     

    You are dead right . Soloing in an MMORPG is probably the worst thing ever thought of .  I got lvl 60 in RIFT on 4 characters purely solo, very boring . Most fun I have in MMO's is doing 5 man groups or 10 man raids .  I find the 20 man raids a bit dumb because its hard to feel very useful sometimes .

     

    Wouldn't mind doing some 6-8 man groups  like 1 tank 1 healers 1 support  4 dps   + CC ( enchanter )

    Solo play should purely be in the form of farming materials like hides etc from easy mobs . 

     

    However maybe EQNext will provide the tools to make the game however we want with our own preferred set rules ?

    Maybe it allows players to be dungeon masters so to speak and create zones for other players to enjoy.

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    I am not averse to raiding but only if it takes place in the open world and everyone gets an item of loot.  What I detest most abou raiding is instancing and only a few items drop therefore most of the time you are not rewarded with anything for a boss kill.  If I kill a boss I want something and I don't mean currency or a token to purchase gear. 

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    Honestly I feel raiding is great. It provides not only difficult content, but content that is group oriented, emphasizing group play. Mentioning GW2, I feel the lack of that type of activity greatly weakens the games real emphasis on guilds, particularly if a guild only wants to play the PvE side of GW2 which really lacks a lot of group content outside the dungeons.

     

    Its something I feel is important but it could be replaced with other activities, I just highly prefer it. Its quite fun if there is enough people to do it and really promotes team work and usually gives people to play better rather then put no effort into games and try to get carried which sadly a lot of people seem to employ as a mentality.

     

    So... Yes I highly like it but if theres actually MORE to do to replace it, I could live without it. Just give challenging PvE content since, contrary to popular belief, PvE tends to involve a lot more mechanics and difficulty then PvP, solely for the fact its much less reliant on solid balance allowing for mistakes to be more costly as well as having far more vicious abilities that player characters just won't be able to do.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser

    Don't care for raiding and gear treadmill..never have and never will.

    So i voted for  0.

    Same here.  Raiding reminds me of 80's cocaine PSA commercials.

     

     

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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