What is funny about "Raiders" is, they all says the same thing, raiding is hard, challenging, complex, you need coordination, yes you're right, but only for the 1st couple of time and I'm being generous. You see, every game I have been in, all I see in the guildchat/LFGchat is, know the fight and be gear. How many time I've seen a post in my guild forum, Raid Friday, know the fight, read the strategy and watch videos. Also, there's nothing hard about going the same raid over and over every day for weeks. So all of you Hardcore Raiders, stop trying to fool ppl with your raid is hard when you are the 1st one to make sure you learn everything before going in!!!
Raiding is probably hard for those on the PTS who are the 1st one to run and make the strategy and strategy video.
I'm not a "hardcore raider", but as someone that's led a raid guild for couple of years, I gotta tell you, knowing the strat is the easiest part of it. As you've said, that can be looked up in a video or read about. It's EXECUTING the strat with different setups, different conditions that is hard. Doing your class' basic job while reacting to what the mob is doing, coordinating and communicating with 20 others, THAT is where the challenge is for me, at least in EQ2 - where i do most of my raiding.
And if you don't think that raiding is the most difficult part of a PvE MMO, what would you consider the most difficult part? (I suppose it may vary from MMO to MMO, but pick any one you like and use it as an example, i've played most except WoW).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Raiding is probably hard for those on the PTS who are the 1st one to run and make the strategy and strategy video.
Try and find me a strategy video of an EQ raid.
You'll come up with nothing.
Posting raiding strategies or video is something I hope the community does not participate in, but since Youtube gives out money to people, I'm sure there will be an idiot posting them.
Posting raiding strategies or video is something I hope the community does not participate in, but since Youtube gives out money to people, I'm sure there will be an idiot posting them.
So you first note no videos exist, and then go on to posit that videos are inevitable?
I voted a 4. Raids should be in the game but development shouldn't be wholly concentrated on raids. Too often games cater to end game raiders too much and forget not everyone has the time to be raiding 5 days a week.
Posting raiding strategies or video is something I hope the community does not participate in, but since Youtube gives out money to people, I'm sure there will be an idiot posting them.
So you first note no videos exist, and then go on to posit that videos are inevitable?
Which is it?
My message was pretty clear I thought, not sure why you're confused by it.
Of EQ no real raid videos detailing strategy exist, and there is an unspoken rule of not releasing strategies when raids are current.
But when a new MMO comes out it is now inevitable that a Youtube idiot will ignore these rules. Both the demographics of new MMO and their attitude to releasing info on current content has changed. The fact Youtube pays many people for their video is even more incetive for someone to try it.
I have never raided, but that didn't impede my enjoyment of any given MMO, so voted 0.
Originally posted by Waterlily
Of EQ no real raid videos detailing strategy exist, and there is an unspoken rule of not releasing strategies when raids are current.
That's interesting. What's worse, though, is that in modern MMO's you're expected to already know the dungeon/raid inside out before you do it. Kills all the exploration, IMO.
Of EQ no real raid videos detailing strategy exist, and there is an unspoken rule of not releasing strategies when raids are current.
That's interesting. What's worse, though, is that in modern MMO's you're expected to already know the dungeon/raid inside out before you do it. Kills all the exploration, IMO.
Yep, one of the fun parts is discovery and helping others discover alongside you.
Why can't they put these raid things as something that is truly hard and takes a guild at least a week to prepare for? Not some rotation where they just knock it out three times a week for its loot.
But on that note I don't raid and it does not effect me so let people raid all they want.
Why can't they put these raid things as something that is truly hard and takes a guild at least a week to prepare for? Not some rotation where they just knock it out three times a week for its loot.
But on that note I don't raid and it does not effect me so let people raid all they want.
Because as somebody have pointed out, computers work on algorithms. Not any actual intelligence .everything they do has been programmed. And once somebody figures out how to beat the fight, it goes to the Internet. This is why even single player games that are hard also have online strategies .
Why can't they put these raid things as something that is truly hard and takes a guild at least a week to prepare for? Not some rotation where they just knock it out three times a week for its loot.
But on that note I don't raid and it does not effect me so let people raid all they want.
Because as somebody have pointed out, computers work on algorithms. Not any actual intelligence .everything they do has been programmed. And once somebody figures out how to beat the fight, it goes to the Internet. This is why even single player games that are hard also have online strategies .
Then there needs to be some signal the server sends to the dev team that a group is near a world Boss, then the devs take control of the boss and use it as a player char and have complete control over said Boss:)
I really enjoy playing with groups, but due to my lifestyle, small groups are much easier to manage into my schedule. Raids can be fun, especially when there's story introduced in them, but they require way too much preparation and people to pull off in a reasonable amount of time. Not to mention raiding usually requires you to be at your computer x amount of times per week at y times.
MMO's by definition are group games. Raids being and integral part. The question always boils down to what constitutes a raid. IMO, any content that requires more then 8 players. Yes, it a forced activity, it's a game mechanic. Why do I say 8 people min? Looks at games with lesser grouping content are the considered MMO's and are the truly popular ? In todays F2P environment makes this a murky claim. I still contend that without F2P most would be closed or teetering. S raiding is an extremely important part of MMO's, otherwise you should be hanging out in chat rooms and playing single player games.
The voting is misleading I voted low because I really don't care for raiding. But I do think it is very important to have in the game for people that want it:)
Originally posted by Sacria mmorpg Games with no raiding content typically grows boring in less than a week so it's a 10 for me.I would love it if anyone here could point me to any moderately successfull mmorpg games without raid content
Originally posted by Shadowguy64 Originally posted by baphametOriginally posted by Sacriammorpg Games with no raiding content typically grows boring in less than a week so it's a 10 for me.I would love it if anyone here could point me to any moderately successfull mmorpg games without raid content
GW2?
Yes, GW2 is a good example of a game that grew boring very quickly. Not 1 week tho. More like 4-6.
true, i was just answering the guys question though.
Originally posted by AG-Vuk S raiding is an extremely important part of MMO's, otherwise you should be hanging out in chat rooms and playing single player games.
This makes absolutely no sense. Raiding is fundamentally not an MMO experience - raids occur in instances, which means you are not in contact with most of the server's population. A 10 player, 20 player, even 40 player game is not massive. If anything, YOU raiders should be hanging out in browser games where raiding is all you do all day.
The rest of us, who actually enjoy MMOs for what they are, want to live in a world full of players, hundreds and thousands of players, working together, interacting, exploring, trading.
Originally posted by Sacria
mmorpg Games with no raiding content typically grows boring in less than a week so it's a 10 for me.
I would love it if anyone here could point me to any moderately successfull mmorpg games without raid content
Raids at times are hella fun IF it does not require one's life to evolve around it or go through extremes were one has to schedule their work and social life around a rigid raid schedule or how one has to raid 3-5 times a week religeously.
What I loathe and despise though is how typically it's raid or GTFO for meaningful PvE content where there is absolutely Jack n shit n Jack left town for quality content to do outside of raiding.
DDO I thought was a very sound and ideal PvE balance of content. One can grind some quests for epic items that are comparable and even exceeds raid gear, and even with raids they were easily pugable and a one nite event but you have a number of raids to choose from unlike the vast majority of MMOs where it's only the current tier raid as prior versions were obsolete gear. DDO was a game where I can log onto the night do a raid or two at my leisure and not have to join raid guilds with the stringent rules to see content.
Originally posted by AG-Vuk S raiding is an extremely important part of MMO's, otherwise you should be hanging out in chat rooms and playing single player games.
This makes absolutely no sense. Raiding is fundamentally not an MMO experience - raids occur in instances, which means you are not in contact with most of the server's population. A 10 player, 20 player, even 40 player game is not massive. If anything, YOU raiders should be hanging out in browser games where raiding is all you do all day.
The rest of us, who actually enjoy MMOs for what they are, want to live in a world full of players, hundreds and thousands of players, working together, interacting, exploring, trading.
Originally posted by Sacria
mmorpg Games with no raiding content typically grows boring in less than a week so it's a 10 for me.
I would love it if anyone here could point me to any moderately successfull mmorpg games without raid content
EVE?
EQ had no instances. Guilds competed for raid targets or had an agreed rotation. Raiders were very much playing with the rest of the server. Zones like Kael where groups would Xp accommodated group play and raid targets simultaneously.
Originally posted by Sacria mmorpg Games with no raiding content typically grows boring in less than a week so it's a 10 for me.
I would love it if anyone here could point me to any moderately successfull mmorpg games without raid content
GW2?
Yes, GW2 is a good example of a game that grew boring very quickly. Not 1 week tho. More like 4-6.
Or is an extremely good example of how raids are not a requirement for success. Perhaps you're the crowd that screamed they are sick of gear progression and raids and called it the bane of MMOs and yet when put in a game that did not do that then that same crowd started singing a compeletely different tune?
GW2 showed how an MMO does not have to have raids to be successful, granted the game would have been better off as a snadbox design with more freedom and with not quite so repetitive events. GW2 is not for everyone but it is a very fun game for many.
GW2 was after all one of the largest hyped games in MMO history, so many will be left disappointed and hated on. No matter how you want to look at it, GW2 IS a success.
EQ had no instances. Guilds competed for raid targets or had an agreed rotation. Raiders were very much playing with the rest of the server. Zones like Kael where groups would Xp accommodated group play and raid targets simultaneously.
Well, that's great, but I imagine that's not what the thread is talking about in the slightest.
"lots of people came out the closet to share this dislike of Raiding"
- this most probably refers to the current raiding style of tiered, player-limited, instanced content where you queue up and sit in raids and get gear to go to the next raid to get more gear. As well as to the style of end-game centered games where only raiding matters, and the world is dead.
Comments
I'm not a "hardcore raider", but as someone that's led a raid guild for couple of years, I gotta tell you, knowing the strat is the easiest part of it. As you've said, that can be looked up in a video or read about. It's EXECUTING the strat with different setups, different conditions that is hard. Doing your class' basic job while reacting to what the mob is doing, coordinating and communicating with 20 others, THAT is where the challenge is for me, at least in EQ2 - where i do most of my raiding.
And if you don't think that raiding is the most difficult part of a PvE MMO, what would you consider the most difficult part? (I suppose it may vary from MMO to MMO, but pick any one you like and use it as an example, i've played most except WoW).
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Try and find me a strategy video of an EQ raid.
You'll come up with nothing.
Posting raiding strategies or video is something I hope the community does not participate in, but since Youtube gives out money to people, I'm sure there will be an idiot posting them.
So you first note no videos exist, and then go on to posit that videos are inevitable?
Which is it?
My message was pretty clear I thought, not sure why you're confused by it.
Of EQ no real raid videos detailing strategy exist, and there is an unspoken rule of not releasing strategies when raids are current.
But when a new MMO comes out it is now inevitable that a Youtube idiot will ignore these rules. Both the demographics of new MMO and their attitude to releasing info on current content has changed. The fact Youtube pays many people for their video is even more incetive for someone to try it.
That's interesting. What's worse, though, is that in modern MMO's you're expected to already know the dungeon/raid inside out before you do it. Kills all the exploration, IMO.
Yep, one of the fun parts is discovery and helping others discover alongside you.
Mystery is part of the game.
Why can't they put these raid things as something that is truly hard and takes a guild at least a week to prepare for? Not some rotation where they just knock it out three times a week for its loot.
But on that note I don't raid and it does not effect me so let people raid all they want.
Because as somebody have pointed out, computers work on algorithms. Not any actual intelligence .everything they do has been programmed. And once somebody figures out how to beat the fight, it goes to the Internet. This is why even single player games that are hard also have online strategies .
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Then there needs to be some signal the server sends to the dev team that a group is near a world Boss, then the devs take control of the boss and use it as a player char and have complete control over said Boss:)
I rated it a 3.
I really enjoy playing with groups, but due to my lifestyle, small groups are much easier to manage into my schedule. Raids can be fun, especially when there's story introduced in them, but they require way too much preparation and people to pull off in a reasonable amount of time. Not to mention raiding usually requires you to be at your computer x amount of times per week at y times.
mmorpg Games with no raiding content typically grows boring in less than a week so it's a 10 for me.
I would love it if anyone here could point me to any moderately successfull mmorpg games without raid content
GW2?
Yes, GW2 is a good example of a game that grew boring very quickly. Not 1 week tho. More like 4-6.
depends on what type of game it is (and the raiding I suppose)
if it is indeed a sandbox game, then raiding is of no importance
if it is a theme park, then I suppose it has more importance (not to me personally) for most folks
Yes, GW2 is a good example of a game that grew boring very quickly. Not 1 week tho. More like 4-6.
true, i was just answering the guys question though.
This makes absolutely no sense. Raiding is fundamentally not an MMO experience - raids occur in instances, which means you are not in contact with most of the server's population. A 10 player, 20 player, even 40 player game is not massive. If anything, YOU raiders should be hanging out in browser games where raiding is all you do all day.
The rest of us, who actually enjoy MMOs for what they are, want to live in a world full of players, hundreds and thousands of players, working together, interacting, exploring, trading.
EVE?
I put down 6, sorta the in-between crowd.
Raids at times are hella fun IF it does not require one's life to evolve around it or go through extremes were one has to schedule their work and social life around a rigid raid schedule or how one has to raid 3-5 times a week religeously.
What I loathe and despise though is how typically it's raid or GTFO for meaningful PvE content where there is absolutely Jack n shit n Jack left town for quality content to do outside of raiding.
DDO I thought was a very sound and ideal PvE balance of content. One can grind some quests for epic items that are comparable and even exceeds raid gear, and even with raids they were easily pugable and a one nite event but you have a number of raids to choose from unlike the vast majority of MMOs where it's only the current tier raid as prior versions were obsolete gear. DDO was a game where I can log onto the night do a raid or two at my leisure and not have to join raid guilds with the stringent rules to see content.
EQ had no instances. Guilds competed for raid targets or had an agreed rotation. Raiders were very much playing with the rest of the server. Zones like Kael where groups would Xp accommodated group play and raid targets simultaneously.
Or is an extremely good example of how raids are not a requirement for success. Perhaps you're the crowd that screamed they are sick of gear progression and raids and called it the bane of MMOs and yet when put in a game that did not do that then that same crowd started singing a compeletely different tune?
GW2 showed how an MMO does not have to have raids to be successful, granted the game would have been better off as a snadbox design with more freedom and with not quite so repetitive events. GW2 is not for everyone but it is a very fun game for many.
GW2 was after all one of the largest hyped games in MMO history, so many will be left disappointed and hated on. No matter how you want to look at it, GW2 IS a success.
Well, that's great, but I imagine that's not what the thread is talking about in the slightest.
"lots of people came out the closet to share this dislike of Raiding"
- this most probably refers to the current raiding style of tiered, player-limited, instanced content where you queue up and sit in raids and get gear to go to the next raid to get more gear. As well as to the style of end-game centered games where only raiding matters, and the world is dead.
THAT, I can do without.
Open world raiding/dungeons? Carry on.
Eve grew boring for me in a matter of days rather than weeks.