1. Did not know DotA 2 was considered a e-sport, I know DotA 1 was considered a competitive game though not sure if to the sports level.
2. By what I know of DotA 2 (played only a bit) criticals are the only luck-based element... and if it is anything like LoL then crits can be increased via items which in turn reduces the luck element, the others you mentioned are skills or skill effects.
Pretty sure League of Legends also does not have RNG.
RNG = Random numbers spat out using a specific mathematics formula which simulates randomness
What LoL uses (to my knowledge) are formulas for determining damage outputs on differing heroes based on various stats.
In fact with E-sports you'd be hard pressed to find any game with RNG.
Well LoL does have a RNG element (critical strikes), but overall the random aspect of it plays an extremely minor role (don't think I've ever watched a game where I felt someone won a fight purely due to luck.)
You're definitely right that any e-sport game has virtually no RNG presence, so that skill can be the only factor to winning a game. While I sorta enjoy crits in TF2 for pub play, they're definitely one of the things that prevented it from becoming an e-sport (that and how the game isn't really balanced for competitive play, even though some TF2 weapons have extremely high skill ceilings.)
Ehh... LoL had random crits which could give you an edge in the "laning phase", but they were removed long time ago. Only way to get crits today is to buy items for it. And, in TF2 tournaments, random crits are OFF. TF2 was/is an e-sport with international tournaments. It is fairly well balanced too - I don't know what would make you think otherwise.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Ehh... LoL had random crits which could give you an edge in the "laning phase", but they were removed long time ago. Only way to get crits today is to buy items for it. And, in TF2 tournaments, random crits are OFF. TF2 was/is an e-sport with international tournaments. It is fairly well balanced too - I don't know what would make you think otherwise.
Right, the only way to get RNG is to buy it -- but it's still RNG.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Ehh... LoL had random crits which could give you an edge in the "laning phase", but they were removed long time ago. Only way to get crits today is to buy items for it. And, in TF2 tournaments, random crits are OFF. TF2 was/is an e-sport with international tournaments. It is fairly well balanced too - I don't know what would make you think otherwise.
Right, the only way to get RNG is to buy it -- but it's still RNG.
Early game crits were the lucky hits you were referring to. Bought crit items, which count later, don't have a similar effect. The added damage is to be expected, meaning you can count your crit towards your DPS.
There's no point taking a stance against all RNG effects since they can be fairly benign.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Early game crits were the lucky hits you were referring to. Bought crit items, which count later, don't have a similar effect. The added damage is to be expected, meaning you can count your crit towards your DPS.
There's no point taking a stance against all RNG effects since they can be fairly benign.
Eh, people still can and do use 1% crit glyphs in an opening build. (And if we're talking about the actual total possible crit you can start with, it's 8.37% from runes and 8% from an item.)
I agree the game is overwhelmingly deterministic, but we shouldn't pretend this bit of RNG doesn't exist.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Early game crits were the lucky hits you were referring to. Bought crit items, which count later, don't have a similar effect. The added damage is to be expected, meaning you can count your crit towards your DPS.
There's no point taking a stance against all RNG effects since they can be fairly benign.
Eh, people still can and do use 1% crit glyphs in an opening build. (And if we're talking about the actual total possible crit you can start with, it's 8.37% from runes and 8% from an item.)
I agree the game is overwhelmingly deterministic, but we shouldn't pretend this bit of RNG doesn't exist.
There are plenty of RNG in real sports. Slight unevenness on a tennis court can affect the trajectory of the tennis ball slightly. It is not like all sports have no random elements.
Heck, you flip a coin to determine who goes first in Football .. isn't that RNG?
""The United States government recognizes League of Legends pro players as professional athletes, and awards visas to essentially work in the United States under that title"
""The United States government recognizes League of Legends pro players as professional athletes, and awards visas to essentially work in the United States under that title"
I was surprised to see that too, but some of the comments made were a lot more compelling.
I suppose when a former Olympic trainer that trained two gold medalist states he believes it should be classified as a sport; it kind makes a person look at their own argument a be more closely.
Originally posted by QuirhidEarly game crits were the lucky hits you were referring to. Bought crit items, which count later, don't have a similar effect. The added damage is to be expected, meaning you can count your crit towards your DPS.There's no point taking a stance against all RNG effects since they can be fairly benign.
Eh, people still can and do use 1% crit glyphs in an opening build. (And if we're talking about the actual total possible crit you can start with, it's 8.37% from runes and 8% from an item.) I agree the game is overwhelmingly deterministic, but we shouldn't pretend this bit of RNG doesn't exist.
There are plenty of RNG in real sports. Slight unevenness on a tennis court can affect the trajectory of the tennis ball slightly. It is not like all sports have no random elements.
Heck, you flip a coin to determine who goes first in Football .. isn't that RNG?
It depends on whether the RNG will determine who wins, and whether the RNG is part of the game play itself.
In tennis, the rules do not stipulate random variations in the surface of the tennis court. They probably have to have a minimum flatness in order to serve as an official tennis court in order to minimize randomness.
In video games, things like crits are an introduced RNG. I think it could be argued that the RNG does have an impact, but it has the same impact for all players. The question is whether it's skill that wins a match or the RNG that wins a match.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
1. Did not know DotA 2 was considered a e-sport, I know DotA 1 was considered a competitive game though not sure if to the sports level.
2. By what I know of DotA 2 (played only a bit) criticals are the only luck-based element... and if it is anything like LoL then crits can be increased via items which in turn reduces the luck element, the others you mentioned are skills or skill effects.
I think millions in prize money make it an eSport, all right. The only people who don't think it's an eSport are those who are not following the game in any way, shape, or form (possibly due to beta status, although it's out of beta at this point). From what I recall, the only game it's properly behind viewership wise is LoL, and we are getting close to International 3 which could make quite a difference.
The skills and skill effects are still luck based. Dota 2 does use something called Pseudo-Random Distribution, but it's still a matter of chance. That page also lists some of the skills that involve RNG in some way.
Entangle has a 20% chance to proc, and whether it procs or not can often make the difference between a kill or an escape, since it roots the enemy and deals damage over time.
At first seeing this news, all I could think was "wtf?!" Lmao
But if curling, synchronized swimming, water polo, and competitive speed walking can all be Olympic sports, then I see no reason why e-sports can't have their share.
Not that im against people having games considered as sports, but no one gives a crap what the US government thinks.
They said ganja is a drug... the medical and science community disagrees
They said Fluoride is good, but the experts and our body tells a different story.
They say a lot of things and it mainly comes down to money, its only been accepted officially because some where down the line they know that there is money to be made.
People on here trying to use the fact that most of these gamers are fat and there for it should not be considered a sport ??
Wrong.... what about Darts, and billiards and plenty of fat people take part in that, to just say this is not a sport because there not athletic is just pure dim witted and naive. ive seen many many many fat NFL players so take your fat arguments and stick them up your fat ass
Originally posted by QuirhidEarly game crits were the lucky hits you were referring to. Bought crit items, which count later, don't have a similar effect. The added damage is to be expected, meaning you can count your crit towards your DPS.There's no point taking a stance against all RNG effects since they can be fairly benign.
Eh, people still can and do use 1% crit glyphs in an opening build. (And if we're talking about the actual total possible crit you can start with, it's 8.37% from runes and 8% from an item.) I agree the game is overwhelmingly deterministic, but we shouldn't pretend this bit of RNG doesn't exist.
There are plenty of RNG in real sports. Slight unevenness on a tennis court can affect the trajectory of the tennis ball slightly. It is not like all sports have no random elements.
Heck, you flip a coin to determine who goes first in Football .. isn't that RNG?
It depends on whether the RNG will determine who wins, and whether the RNG is part of the game play itself.
In tennis, the rules do not stipulate random variations in the surface of the tennis court. They probably have to have a minimum flatness in order to serve as an official tennis court in order to minimize randomness.
In video games, things like crits are an introduced RNG. I think it could be argued that the RNG does have an impact, but it has the same impact for all players. The question is whether it's skill that wins a match or the RNG that wins a match.
And maybe their sponsors too, sure, I get that, But What I mean is, who cares if the govt. calls them athletes or not? I suppose my golf comparison is a bit out of context.
And maybe their sponsors too, sure, I get that, But What I mean is, who cares if the govt. calls them athletes or not? I suppose my golf comparison is a bit out of context.
All of them .. because it makes their position more legit, and for the actual travelers, it makes it easier to get visas.
Comments
HA! That's now Mexico! Sucker!
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/mexico-surpasses-u-s-world-fattest-nation-report-article-1.1393801
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You obviously don't watch Dota 2.
Critical, bash, timelock, backtrack, root, soul catcher...
Beaurocracy.. lol
Sorry, people who play LoL are not athletes.
People who bike in the park on Sunday, those who play an occasional tennis game, and those who play the occasional soft balls are not athletes either.
So?
1. Did not know DotA 2 was considered a e-sport, I know DotA 1 was considered a competitive game though not sure if to the sports level.
2. By what I know of DotA 2 (played only a bit) criticals are the only luck-based element... and if it is anything like LoL then crits can be increased via items which in turn reduces the luck element, the others you mentioned are skills or skill effects.
Ehh... LoL had random crits which could give you an edge in the "laning phase", but they were removed long time ago. Only way to get crits today is to buy items for it. And, in TF2 tournaments, random crits are OFF. TF2 was/is an e-sport with international tournaments. It is fairly well balanced too - I don't know what would make you think otherwise.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Right, the only way to get RNG is to buy it -- but it's still RNG.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Early game crits were the lucky hits you were referring to. Bought crit items, which count later, don't have a similar effect. The added damage is to be expected, meaning you can count your crit towards your DPS.
There's no point taking a stance against all RNG effects since they can be fairly benign.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Eh, people still can and do use 1% crit glyphs in an opening build. (And if we're talking about the actual total possible crit you can start with, it's 8.37% from runes and 8% from an item.)
I agree the game is overwhelmingly deterministic, but we shouldn't pretend this bit of RNG doesn't exist.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
There are plenty of RNG in real sports. Slight unevenness on a tennis court can affect the trajectory of the tennis ball slightly. It is not like all sports have no random elements.
Heck, you flip a coin to determine who goes first in Football .. isn't that RNG?
They want some of their winnings as taxes is all.
I was surprised to see that too, but some of the comments made were a lot more compelling.
I suppose when a former Olympic trainer that trained two gold medalist states he believes it should be classified as a sport; it kind makes a person look at their own argument a be more closely.
It depends on whether the RNG will determine who wins, and whether the RNG is part of the game play itself.
In tennis, the rules do not stipulate random variations in the surface of the tennis court. They probably have to have a minimum flatness in order to serve as an official tennis court in order to minimize randomness.
In video games, things like crits are an introduced RNG. I think it could be argued that the RNG does have an impact, but it has the same impact for all players. The question is whether it's skill that wins a match or the RNG that wins a match.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think millions in prize money make it an eSport, all right. The only people who don't think it's an eSport are those who are not following the game in any way, shape, or form (possibly due to beta status, although it's out of beta at this point). From what I recall, the only game it's properly behind viewership wise is LoL, and we are getting close to International 3 which could make quite a difference.
The skills and skill effects are still luck based. Dota 2 does use something called Pseudo-Random Distribution, but it's still a matter of chance. That page also lists some of the skills that involve RNG in some way.
But one of the most controversial RNG effects in the game is Entangle of the Spirit Bear: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Lone_Druid#Spirit_Bear
Entangle has a 20% chance to proc, and whether it procs or not can often make the difference between a kill or an escape, since it roots the enemy and deals damage over time.
At first seeing this news, all I could think was "wtf?!" Lmao
But if curling, synchronized swimming, water polo, and competitive speed walking can all be Olympic sports, then I see no reason why e-sports can't have their share.
Not that im against people having games considered as sports, but no one gives a crap what the US government thinks.
They said ganja is a drug... the medical and science community disagrees
They said Fluoride is good, but the experts and our body tells a different story.
They say a lot of things and it mainly comes down to money, its only been accepted officially because some where down the line they know that there is money to be made.
People on here trying to use the fact that most of these gamers are fat and there for it should not be considered a sport ??
Wrong.... what about Darts, and billiards and plenty of fat people take part in that, to just say this is not a sport because there not athletic is just pure dim witted and naive. ive seen many many many fat NFL players so take your fat arguments and stick them up your fat ass
ps: im not fat =o, who cares ?
So it is the degree of RNG, not the existence.
And certainly there is RNG in the coin toss.
Who cares!?
I don't watch golf and that's a real sport.
Those who travel here to compete.
A large part of the 30M LoL player base.
South Koreans.
And maybe their sponsors too, sure, I get that, But What I mean is, who cares if the govt. calls them athletes or not? I suppose my golf comparison is a bit out of context.
All of them .. because it makes their position more legit, and for the actual travelers, it makes it easier to get visas.