If this thread is anything to go by the game will tank...it's a rule I've seen proven time and a again: success = 1/hype.
Also to the people who keep saying P2P gets more content updates... continue thinking that, I need less people moaning to turn sandboxes into themeparks.
It's an old fashion MMORPG where you slay monsters, level up, get better gear and do some crafting. Why is that so bad? That's how the games were when I started playing mmo's and that's why I'm still playing. It's the genre. If it's well executed take my money!
Originally posted by pauly6478 They rename Final fantasy to Wildstar? I missed something.
Its funny because, Wildstar will be worse than this game, and this game is already nothing new.
Yay! More WoW Clones!!!!
+1
You guys keep thinking there will be a super revolutionary MMO.
News flash. Unless it's Virtual Reality, you will continue to see more of the same elements from past MMOs in future MMOs.
You see any flying cars yet? Things don't change so quickly, they evolve.
And yeah, ARR is different. It's unfortunate you can't see it.
You obviously haven't played enough MMO's. It's rather obvious this industry has degraded by tons from the amount of WoW clones, and the community is sick of it. I'm sure you'll pick that up the more you spend in games and on this forum.
No, you want UO clones and I am happy that era is over.
Me personally, I don't want any clones. I want something new on the table.
Then I suggest you take a break from MMOs, from the early days of the atari/jaguar all the way up to the this current gen, there have only been a handful of "revolutionary, industry shaking games" that most of the industry (in their respected genre) soon followed that template that the game set forth and have slowly expended on those core ideas over the years creating sub-genres. If you look at these games, they have one thing in common. What was that factor? Hardware, The advancement in hardware allowed developers to expend on new creative ideas and mechanics that where not possible before. While some took ideas from others and redefine/streamlined them to a level never before seen in their respected industry (notable mention WoW vanilla).
Witten is correct, you're not going to see another "super revolutionary industry shaking MMO" for a long while.
What a ridiculous post. ARR will not even get 10% of what WoW has in terms of numbers.
And if referring to the quality of game there has already been a ton of better games then WoW and you would be implying WoW was ever a good game.
The crafting system is not in anyway "deep" it is just long and at times a monotonous process, this will anything but attract people, especially not "WoW" people who will get bored of crafting in a second.
ARR is very likely to be another floptastic mess. Very few people will be willing to put money on the line for what was a disaster.
I don't care if this game attracts "10%" of what WoW has, as long as it survives. I don't want this game to attract "WoW" players, I can't stand what the games community has transformed into. Why do people want MMO's to accumulate the ammount of players WoW had? That just means more complaining and more changes to the game, if they listen. It seems that MMO's were alot better when they weren't trying to appeal to everyone, but y'all think that it will fail if it doesn't do what WoW did.
Originally posted by McSire FFXIV Won't even be close to WoW for one reason, and that reason is the combat is extremely weightless and slow paced, there's barely any action at all, the only interesting thing about it is the nice job on flashy effects.
I've idea what you are talking about. I don't think you do either. I've played WoW, I own a 90 Frost/Blood DK, 85 Ass/ Rogue and a 65 Demon/ Warlock. I've tanked both LK and DW on my DK. I've also played FFXIV in beta 3.
There isn't any "weight or faster pace" to WoW over FFXIV. Yes the GC in FFXIV comes into affect in early lvls, but haste abilities and gear play a huge role in speeding up combat in later lvls. Blood/Frost/Unholy runes only replenish so fast.
Besides WoW combat is so one dimensional it becomes boring. The only class in Wow that relies on position is Rogue. It doesn't matter what kind of fight you are doing your rotation is always the same. damage, damage, damage, don't stand in the fire.
from the director mouth himself he clearly stated he will be happy with 500k subs. V1.0 of the game had more than 100k SUBs with its awful everything, its really easy to assume with an amazing game like this it will reach 500k easily.
now to the question will it be a WoW-killer? no way , Yoshi himself also said he is not looking to cater for all but for a niche market audience. He also talked about WoW-Clones and why they fail and thats why if you spend enough time in game , you will notice the big differences between WoW and FFXIV thus the term " Niche ".
all in all I hope players stop comparing any MMO to WoW and evaluate it based not on reviews but their enjoyment, having said that I hope whoever plays the game in Open beta to PLEASE wait to pass judgment until you are Lv20+.
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac Of course it will kill WoW. Just the hype of the game alone chipped a million or so subs off WoW subs a month or so ago.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
FFXIV has nothing innovative, it is a mix between Rift and WAR.
The only thing that could save the game from going F2P in 6 months is the huge FF fanbase..................but greatest MMO since WoW?
Not even close by a Mile................
So what did WoW innovate at launch? Because, last I checked it was still the most successful mmo ever. The only thing it had was it did what other mmo's before had but done better.
Innovation != Success; recent games show this more and more. That's why their f2p. They tried to innovate but failed to deliver a great game overall.
FFXIV has nothing innovative, it is a mix between Rift and WAR.
The only thing that could save the game from going F2P in 6 months is the huge FF fanbase..................but greatest MMO since WoW?
Not even close by a Mile................
So what did WoW innovate at launch? Because, last I checked it was still the most successful mmo ever. The only thing it had was it did what other mmo's before had but done better.
Innovation != Success; recent games show this more and more. That's why their f2p. They tried to innovate but failed to deliver a great game overall.
What WoW had at launch was a unique mish-mash of traits from multiple older MMOs (everquest principal among its inspirations) and a good IP behind it.
What does FFXIV have? Allot "been done already" features and a half-decent IP (which hasn't produced a decent non-MMO game since FFX and arguably FFX-2) plus a dangerous amount of hype.
That's the exact same combination FFXIV has. They took a lot of the ideas from mmo's we've seen since wow(and wow itself of course) and added FF flavor to it. So this model is fine for blizzard but for anyone else it means it's doomed to fail?
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac Of course it will kill WoW. Just the hype of the game alone chipped a million or so subs off WoW subs a month or so ago.
I know this is a joke, but the only thing that will kill WoW is WoW.
Failure to kill WOW does not mean a game is a failure. FF XIV is good enough to garner at least 500K subs. Personally, I expect 750K-1M. Will it last at 1M subs? Probably not, but would be nice. That really depends on end-game content and content updates. I expect 750K-1M subs in the first 2 months, 500K in the next 3-6. If there aren't any content updates by then, server mergers. (speaking from experience with previous games)
They've made a lot of improvements. Combat is better than 1.0, but still slightly slower than WOW. They've improved their questing and overall level grind. You now have multiple things you can do to level your character. The job system is still the best class system on the market (IMO). Advanced jobs add a lot more uniqueness to your character, which is a big improvement from what 1.0 had.
Overall, the game is better. Is it worth a monthly sub? That's up to the individuall. Some people have no problems with subscription games (me), while others have problems with F2P games.
Allow me to make one correction to the overall biased opinions of people in this thread: F2P games don't automatically fail nor does F2P mean it is item shop B2W
EQ is still going, and is not B2W
EQ2 is still going, and is not B2W
DDO is still going, and is not B2W
LOTRO is still going, and is not B2W
To name a few.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
M i the only one who is a bit tired of reading "We dont want the WoW community in" and similar remarks being spammed over and over in every single mmorpg thread?
WoW has not a "bigger amount of douches per server" compared to any other mmo and, dare i say it?
The mmo community is quite horrible and agressive no matter where you go.
Reading "WoW and it´s players suck" every single day gets old fast.
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac Of course it will kill WoW. Just the hype of the game alone chipped a million or so subs off WoW subs a month or so ago.
I know this is a joke, but the only thing that will kill WoW is WoW.
Blizzard will kill WoW - many people are just hooked on it.
Originally posted by NetSage That's the exact same combination FFXIV has. They took a lot of the ideas from mmo's we've seen since wow(and wow itself of course) and added FF flavor to it. So this model is fine for blizzard but for anyone else it means it's doomed to fail?
The issue is that it has the exact same combination...and that exact same combination is found in many, many games most of which are F2P and some have allot of content to boot too.
FFXIV has nothing innovative, it is a mix between Rift and WAR.
The only thing that could save the game from going F2P in 6 months is the huge FF fanbase..................but greatest MMO since WoW?
Not even close by a Mile................
So what did WoW innovate at launch? Because, last I checked it was still the most successful mmo ever. The only thing it had was it did what other mmo's before had but done better.
Innovation != Success; recent games show this more and more. That's why their f2p. They tried to innovate but failed to deliver a great game overall.
What WoW had at launch was a unique mish-mash of traits from multiple older MMOs (everquest principal among its inspirations) and a good IP behind it.
What does FFXIV have? Allot "been done already" features and a half-decent IP (which hasn't produced a decent non-MMO game since FFX and arguably FFX-2) plus a dangerous amount of hype.
"half-decent IP"
Your opinion, FF IP is one of the most recognized/loved in the world. You don't get that kind of recognition from a "half-decent IP"
"(which hasn't produced a decent non-MMO game since FFX and arguably FFX-2)"
Again your opinion. Millions of fans love FF12 (me included) and FF13.
ARR is different. It's unfortunate you can't see it.
FFXIV has nothing innovative, it is a mix between Rift and WAR.
The only thing that could save the game from going F2P in 6 months is the huge FF fanbase..................but greatest MMO since WoW?
Not even close by a Mile................
So what did WoW innovate at launch? Because, last I checked it was still the most successful mmo ever. The only thing it had was it did what other mmo's before had but done better.
Innovation != Success; recent games show this more and more. That's why their f2p. They tried to innovate but failed to deliver a great game overall.
In 2004 there were 5 major MMOs
EQ, EQ2, UO, SWG, WoW
Now.............if you played all 5 of them like I did, you will realise how much innovation brought compared to the other 4, and that's the reason why it is still so successful after 9 years.
Innovation doesn't necessarily means you invent something new, but that you use it effectively.
FFXIV is a cookie cutter of WAR and Rift..............but they are F2P..................... while FFXIV ain't
I don't see the reason why anyone would want to pay a subscription, unless you are a FF fanboy.
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac FFXIV is so good that Smedley decided to make EQNext F2P to avoid direct competition.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
FFXIV has nothing innovative, it is a mix between Rift and WAR.
The only thing that could save the game from going F2P in 6 months is the huge FF fanbase..................but greatest MMO since WoW?
Not even close by a Mile................
Why does this board seem to have a predominant idea that a new MMO has to innovate to be successful? Most of the successful games simply borrowed and refined ideas from other games.
Look at GW2. It's a decent game. But, IMO, the developers wasted far too much time and energy into avoiding ideas and mechanics that were in the WoW model and in the end they tried too hard to re invent the wheel. As I have said before. For the most part they were successful in creating a new working mechanic. But the problem was that in most cases that new mechanic was not a clear improvement over the old. The Non Trinity system. Great idea. But the implementation was very messy. Sure it works (barely) but I don't consider it an overall improvement. Just a different option. Then there is the DE system. While great in theory and yes, they are fun, it too falls short of the promised effect. They are very repetitive and change very little. But also the hidden aspect of them being the amount of time to develop them. Since the Game's release, how many new DEs have been added? While they are more enjoyable than Quest Hubs, You simply cannot get the level of game content available in the Hub system. So it adds even more to the repetition of the system.
Over time, those systems will be refined and incorporated into new MMOs and so on, but adding them to a game for the 1st time can be detrimental. GW2 also had it's own share of issues after it released that the developers had to deal with. Player loopholes and what not based on the new and untested dynamics that new innovations introduced. Just things that players discovered and took advantage of that were un-forseen due to inexperience with the system and how the masses will react to it.
Why go through all that, when all players want is an enjoyable experience. That can be done if the proper tried and true are applied to a good game to begin with. Most recent AAA titles didn't have a good game to start with.
FFXIV has nothing innovative, it is a mix between Rift and WAR.
The only thing that could save the game from going F2P in 6 months is the huge FF fanbase..................but greatest MMO since WoW?
Not even close by a Mile................
So what did WoW innovate at launch? Because, last I checked it was still the most successful mmo ever. The only thing it had was it did what other mmo's before had but done better.
Innovation != Success; recent games show this more and more. That's why their f2p. They tried to innovate but failed to deliver a great game overall.
What WoW had at launch was a unique mish-mash of traits from multiple older MMOs (everquest principal among its inspirations) and a good IP behind it.
What does FFXIV have? Allot "been done already" features and a half-decent IP (which hasn't produced a decent non-MMO game since FFX and arguably FFX-2) plus a dangerous amount of hype.
"half-decent IP"
Your opinion, FF IP is one of the most recognized/loved in the world. You don't get that kind of recognition from a "half-decent IP"
"(which hasn't produced a decent non-MMO game since FFX and arguably FFX-2)"
Again your opinion. Millions of fans love FF12 (me included) and FF13.
ARR is different. It's unfortunate you can't see it.
Yes I am sure having incrementally less control over your games is a step up in terms of gaming quality.
ARR is about as different from other MMOs currently on the market as Rift is from WoW and I am being generous here.
Also if you want the most recognized IPs in the world try Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer 40.000, etc, Final Fantasy is popular in Asia and some segments of the western culture but if you ask someone from a village in the middle of nowhere who Tifa is and then ask who Picard is I'll let you guess which one's more likely to be known.
And I will make for this MMO the same prediction I made for Star Wars The Old Republic solely based on the toxic and idealistic fanbase it has: Dead or F2P within 2 years, tops.
Comments
If this thread is anything to go by the game will tank...it's a rule I've seen proven time and a again: success = 1/hype.
Also to the people who keep saying P2P gets more content updates... continue thinking that, I need less people moaning to turn sandboxes into themeparks.
It's an old fashion MMORPG where you slay monsters, level up, get better gear and do some crafting. Why is that so bad? That's how the games were when I started playing mmo's and that's why I'm still playing. It's the genre. If it's well executed take my money!
Then I suggest you take a break from MMOs, from the early days of the atari/jaguar all the way up to the this current gen, there have only been a handful of "revolutionary, industry shaking games" that most of the industry (in their respected genre) soon followed that template that the game set forth and have slowly expended on those core ideas over the years creating sub-genres. If you look at these games, they have one thing in common. What was that factor? Hardware, The advancement in hardware allowed developers to expend on new creative ideas and mechanics that where not possible before. While some took ideas from others and redefine/streamlined them to a level never before seen in their respected industry (notable mention WoW vanilla).
Witten is correct, you're not going to see another "super revolutionary industry shaking MMO" for a long while.
I don't care if this game attracts "10%" of what WoW has, as long as it survives. I don't want this game to attract "WoW" players, I can't stand what the games community has transformed into. Why do people want MMO's to accumulate the ammount of players WoW had? That just means more complaining and more changes to the game, if they listen. It seems that MMO's were alot better when they weren't trying to appeal to everyone, but y'all think that it will fail if it doesn't do what WoW did.
I've idea what you are talking about. I don't think you do either. I've played WoW, I own a 90 Frost/Blood DK, 85 Ass/ Rogue and a 65 Demon/ Warlock. I've tanked both LK and DW on my DK. I've also played FFXIV in beta 3.
There isn't any "weight or faster pace" to WoW over FFXIV. Yes the GC in FFXIV comes into affect in early lvls, but haste abilities and gear play a huge role in speeding up combat in later lvls. Blood/Frost/Unholy runes only replenish so fast.
Besides WoW combat is so one dimensional it becomes boring. The only class in Wow that relies on position is Rogue. It doesn't matter what kind of fight you are doing your rotation is always the same. damage, damage, damage, don't stand in the fire.
from the director mouth himself he clearly stated he will be happy with 500k subs. V1.0 of the game had more than 100k SUBs with its awful everything, its really easy to assume with an amazing game like this it will reach 500k easily.
now to the question will it be a WoW-killer? no way , Yoshi himself also said he is not looking to cater for all but for a niche market audience. He also talked about WoW-Clones and why they fail and thats why if you spend enough time in game , you will notice the big differences between WoW and FFXIV thus the term " Niche ".
all in all I hope players stop comparing any MMO to WoW and evaluate it based not on reviews but their enjoyment, having said that I hope whoever plays the game in Open beta to PLEASE wait to pass judgment until you are Lv20+.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
OP...............really
FFXIV has nothing innovative, it is a mix between Rift and WAR.
The only thing that could save the game from going F2P in 6 months is the huge FF fanbase..................but greatest MMO since WoW?
Not even close by a Mile................
So what did WoW innovate at launch? Because, last I checked it was still the most successful mmo ever. The only thing it had was it did what other mmo's before had but done better.
Innovation != Success; recent games show this more and more. That's why their f2p. They tried to innovate but failed to deliver a great game overall.
What WoW had at launch was a unique mish-mash of traits from multiple older MMOs (everquest principal among its inspirations) and a good IP behind it.
What does FFXIV have? Allot "been done already" features and a half-decent IP (which hasn't produced a decent non-MMO game since FFX and arguably FFX-2) plus a dangerous amount of hype.
I know this is a joke, but the only thing that will kill WoW is WoW.
Failure to kill WOW does not mean a game is a failure. FF XIV is good enough to garner at least 500K subs. Personally, I expect 750K-1M. Will it last at 1M subs? Probably not, but would be nice. That really depends on end-game content and content updates. I expect 750K-1M subs in the first 2 months, 500K in the next 3-6. If there aren't any content updates by then, server mergers. (speaking from experience with previous games)
They've made a lot of improvements. Combat is better than 1.0, but still slightly slower than WOW. They've improved their questing and overall level grind. You now have multiple things you can do to level your character. The job system is still the best class system on the market (IMO). Advanced jobs add a lot more uniqueness to your character, which is a big improvement from what 1.0 had.
Overall, the game is better. Is it worth a monthly sub? That's up to the individuall. Some people have no problems with subscription games (me), while others have problems with F2P games.
Allow me to make one correction to the overall biased opinions of people in this thread: F2P games don't automatically fail nor does F2P mean it is item shop B2W
EQ is still going, and is not B2W
EQ2 is still going, and is not B2W
DDO is still going, and is not B2W
LOTRO is still going, and is not B2W
To name a few.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
M i the only one who is a bit tired of reading "We dont want the WoW community in" and similar remarks being spammed over and over in every single mmorpg thread?
WoW has not a "bigger amount of douches per server" compared to any other mmo and, dare i say it?
The mmo community is quite horrible and agressive no matter where you go.
Reading "WoW and it´s players suck" every single day gets old fast.
Blizzard will kill WoW - many people are just hooked on it.
The issue is that it has the exact same combination...and that exact same combination is found in many, many games most of which are F2P and some have allot of content to boot too.
"half-decent IP"
Your opinion, FF IP is one of the most recognized/loved in the world. You don't get that kind of recognition from a "half-decent IP"
"(which hasn't produced a decent non-MMO game since FFX and arguably FFX-2)"
Again your opinion. Millions of fans love FF12 (me included) and FF13.
ARR is different. It's unfortunate you can't see it.
In 2004 there were 5 major MMOs
EQ, EQ2, UO, SWG, WoW
Now.............if you played all 5 of them like I did, you will realise how much innovation brought compared to the other 4, and that's the reason why it is still so successful after 9 years.
Innovation doesn't necessarily means you invent something new, but that you use it effectively.
FFXIV is a cookie cutter of WAR and Rift..............but they are F2P..................... while FFXIV ain't
I don't see the reason why anyone would want to pay a subscription, unless you are a FF fanboy.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Why does this board seem to have a predominant idea that a new MMO has to innovate to be successful? Most of the successful games simply borrowed and refined ideas from other games.
Look at GW2. It's a decent game. But, IMO, the developers wasted far too much time and energy into avoiding ideas and mechanics that were in the WoW model and in the end they tried too hard to re invent the wheel. As I have said before. For the most part they were successful in creating a new working mechanic. But the problem was that in most cases that new mechanic was not a clear improvement over the old. The Non Trinity system. Great idea. But the implementation was very messy. Sure it works (barely) but I don't consider it an overall improvement. Just a different option. Then there is the DE system. While great in theory and yes, they are fun, it too falls short of the promised effect. They are very repetitive and change very little. But also the hidden aspect of them being the amount of time to develop them. Since the Game's release, how many new DEs have been added? While they are more enjoyable than Quest Hubs, You simply cannot get the level of game content available in the Hub system. So it adds even more to the repetition of the system.
Over time, those systems will be refined and incorporated into new MMOs and so on, but adding them to a game for the 1st time can be detrimental. GW2 also had it's own share of issues after it released that the developers had to deal with. Player loopholes and what not based on the new and untested dynamics that new innovations introduced. Just things that players discovered and took advantage of that were un-forseen due to inexperience with the system and how the masses will react to it.
Why go through all that, when all players want is an enjoyable experience. That can be done if the proper tried and true are applied to a good game to begin with. Most recent AAA titles didn't have a good game to start with.
Yes I am sure having incrementally less control over your games is a step up in terms of gaming quality.
ARR is about as different from other MMOs currently on the market as Rift is from WoW and I am being generous here.
Also if you want the most recognized IPs in the world try Star Trek, Star Wars, Warhammer 40.000, etc, Final Fantasy is popular in Asia and some segments of the western culture but if you ask someone from a village in the middle of nowhere who Tifa is and then ask who Picard is I'll let you guess which one's more likely to be known.
And I will make for this MMO the same prediction I made for Star Wars The Old Republic solely based on the toxic and idealistic fanbase it has: Dead or F2P within 2 years, tops.
The Enlightened take things Lightly