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Originally posted by arieste Of course it's not all bad, and it does open all kinds of possibilities. But for every interesting adventurer that does a fabulous elvish accent, you're likely to run into 100 d00dz discussing what their WoW character did to the other's mom in intimate detail.
I think it's worked really well for Neverwinter and planetside 2. I jump into a neverwinter group and say hi, general most of them say hi back and we chat while we play.
Same in pvp, I start discussing a strat and surprisingly enough they either respond in chat or talk back in a mic. It's really nice to just instantly be able to verbally talk with people. Sure some people are anti-social. Some people don't even type back. But that just makes it easier to weed out the nice social people I want to play with again and the ones that are clearly lone wolds/socially retarded.
In planetside 2, I can run, push a single button and instantly I can ask a guy for a ride or see what he or she is doing, and a lot of times it leads to making a friend or at least having a social + gameplay experience with a random person.
It flows a lot better, because lets face it, a lot of people don't want to tab out of a game, and put in your IP / PW to get into your channel, especially if they're just passing by or playing for 30 or 40 minutes and don't really know you.
Having in game voip is just another level of convenience so that we can socialize easier.
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Originally posted by tank017 Originally posted by Gallus85 Originally posted by tank017 Originally posted by Piiritus Number 3 because each travel was a minigame itself in EQ. It required planning and involved risk. Wonder if the memememee generation can ever accept it though.
Yep,traveling was an adventure in its self..
and no,majority of the memememe crowd would probably quit.
Or you could have both and appeal to both crowds at the same time.
as long as it doesnt diminish the exploration factor of the game,Im fine with that.
Another case of " I want people to play the game the same was as I am"
Why are flight points or ground mounts stopping you from adventuring the way you prefer?
I personally quite liked WoW Vanilla system. Walk most places, have flights and ships/zeppelins to far away places.
Mounts/teleports/etc. optional if integrated well and don't make travel too fast.
Originally posted by hMJem Originally posted by tank017 Originally posted by Gallus85 Originally posted by tank017 Originally posted by Piiritus Number 3 because each travel was a minigame itself in EQ. It required planning and involved risk. Wonder if the memememee generation can ever accept it though.
Where did I say I want everyone to play the same way I do? hmm?
let me give you a scenario : Fast traveling from point A to point B...
if the devs expect everyone to choose fast travel from point A to point B,its quite possible this thought would pop in their heads - why bother putting anything interesting between point A and point B if people are just going to pass on through anyway?
So yes,I would like an MMO more my style for once,as Im sure you already have ton you already like,that has fast travel to boot.
Originally posted by ragz45 Surprising results so far, but the pool needs to be a lot larger for any real results.
Incorrect. You only need a sample size of around 30 to do start doing confidence intervals.
Unfortunately what you also need is an unbiased sample, which this is not. I'm in favor of the third option as well, but I'm a realist, I know it's never going to happen.
There's a reason they're not calling it EQ3. They are going to cater to casual players who have short play sessions and that precludes a 30 minute playing session being "get half-way to where I will play in 2 more days".
They're just not going to do it, or they'll do it and make it so druids and wizards (or whatever) have group teleport at level 5, so you can make an alt account to teleport you around quite easily.
Originally posted by Gallus85 Originally posted by arieste Of course it's not all bad, and it does open all kinds of possibilities. But for every interesting adventurer that does a fabulous elvish accent, you're likely to run into 100 d00dz discussing what their WoW character did to the other's mom in intimate detail.
DDO did this 7 years ago. I like it, but let's not pretend like it's a paradigm shift.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Options for all 3, and Flight.
Hmm but what kind of travel do you want in EQNext? After all that was the question.
I want slow travel like Everquest pre-PoP, where a run could take 10 to 30 minutes, and where you would stay in a far away zone for days.
I know others want different things but the poll asked about what I want.
Originally posted by craftseeker Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Options for all 3, and Flight.
And he gave 3 options. I want all three
#1 and 2 instant travel - via ports from druids wizards, maybe potions. I"m not opposed to the book idea (pok type although I don't want a single area with all of them), for instanced dungeons if there are some summoning stones would be good to grab other players, or an ability for whoever is leading the raid to summon them.
# 3 Running by foot would be relatively slow and take time.
What is the fun part of the long 30 minute run?
(I'm seriously asking)
Originally posted by Shadowguy64 What is the fun part of the long 30 minute run? (I'm seriously asking)
.....that is the thing, you never know until you take it. Who will you meet? What will you encounter? Will there be shinies? Resource nodes to harvest?
The 30 minute run is a great time to chat to friends, make new ones all sorts of things. As for the 30 minute boat ride, well chat go get a drink, bio break come back and into a new adventure. Slow travel is a meander through the world smelling the roses and enjoying the view.
By itself nothing, a run just to get from point a to b would be totally boring.
But I still have hope that someone will make a game with interesting things that happen on your way to a particular area.
If I'm just looking to travel to a place I'll fly or port every time.
But if I'm looking for adventure I'll walk/ride.
e.g. first time I was in kithicor woods in EQ was at night, was very fun, a bit spooky. Then I learned to hug the wall and it became boring. So do things like that, give us random events, random npcs, pop-ups, a weird note spawns on the trail. Make the travel interesting other than just getting mobbed and we'll do it.
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Note I haven't read the entire thread so I apologize if I repeating sentiments already expressed or already established to be invalid for whatever reason.
That out of the way, I couldn't decide based on the options available. I would pick the middle option if I had to pick one but I don't want slow travel just for the sake of it and I certainly don't want to have to fight trash mobs or anything of that nature in order to try and slow me down devouring content.
Hopefully EQN won't be that type of game and the middle option will make sense for the world and they won't need to send me on insignificant journeys to slow me down playing the game but still make it worth while exploring the landscape.
I want to travel somewhere on my own volition because at the end of the journey I expect to have fun (if that be obtaining something that gives me joy or an activity of some kind). Ideally traveling in itself would be fun but I don't need unnecessary obstacles to have it. If I want to fight mobs for whatever reason I will do just that. Every bit of landscape in the world shouldn't be covered with them but they should migrate and have behavioural characteristics that one expects from that type of mob and fitting to the lore. If I don't want to fight mobs but need to get from A to B to harvest resources, explore or whatever than combat shouldn't be forced on me with a possible exception or running into a migrating flock of hostile mobs or because someone jumps me (aka PVP but I don't want to get into that).
Portals make sense in a magic world and they reduce tedium. That said don't just give me a loading screen. Make it visually spectacular to travel through a portal. Show me the journey through dimensions while the next zone loads. Think worm holes in sci fi movies and so on or at the very least do a thing similar to the warp drive in EVE in a fantasy and lore appropriate way.
That's all I care to say about it. Sorry for being late to the party and not reading the entire thread.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by Shadowguy64 What is the fun part of the long 30 minute run? (I'm seriously asking)
Do not hug the wall experience the fun of the zone, maybe you encounter a couple of players that have pulled a little too much, so give them a buff or two, ask if they need help. Throw them a heal be part of the community, participate.
Originally posted by craftseeker Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by Shadowguy64 What is the fun part of the long 30 minute run? (I'm seriously asking)
There are no zones , no levels . It's a sandbox. You create
Originally posted by Grailer Originally posted by craftseeker Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by Shadowguy64 What is the fun part of the long 30 minute run? (I'm seriously asking)
Most games, even sandboxs, still have zones. I'm not talking about instances and there aren't always loading screens and so on but zones are the norm.
Originally posted by ClassicEQ Originally posted by Gallus85 Originally posted by ClassicEQ It's been proven that you decide to walk in every game. So why have fast travel systems already made? It just takes away from players being in charge of the traveling and speed. Those in-game portals could be player Wizards or Druids (or what ever spell/class we haven't been introduced to). This could be strengthening the community, something MMO's these days are lacking.
I have no issues with some sort of player run fast travel. But it's not needed.
There are also lots of great MMORPG communities. GW2 again is a great example. The public events, personal player loot and level scaling made it so high levels didn't have to exclusively play with high levels. You didn't get mad when you saw more people show up for an event (You got excited because it was going to be even more epic). No one ever "Stole your mob".
In return people were extremely awesome to each other. High levels always running around and helping fresh players, lvl 80s helping lvl 30s learn how to do their first dungeon.
GW2's mechanics fostered an amazing and friendly community.
Just as EQ corpse runs and heavy group content fostered a friendly community.
Again, my point is that you can do things different and get the same desired effects. You can craft a game that appeals to a wide audience, instead of alienating people outside a tight niche.
And the thing I proved is that fast travel doesn't kill open worlds. A boring, lifeless and pointless open world kills it's self.
Other games have proven that you can have fast travel, and if you make the world worth exploring, people will only use the fast travel out of necessity, not as a main-method of getting around.
Fast travel does kill open worlds. The only thing you proved is that it doesn't bother you.
Game quality dies fast when you create "god mode" traveling systems.
PoP ruined EQ for a lot of players. In WoW, Wizards used to make use of their porting abilities. These days you don't hear anyone requesting a Wizard. Everything can be done in 1 player mode. GW2 was a great game, but due to fast travel (one of many reasons, but a big one) a lot of people got bored very fast.
Edit - I think you've missed what I said earlier. You can't make games for everyone anymore. You'll end up making the SAME game over and over again...
Here is my earlier post...
I'm tired of these notions that games have to be "dumbed down" or "easier" in order to cater to certain types of players. This notion that the game has to be for everyone. Obviously the MMO genre has divided and now it is time to make games for target audiences. Not for "everyone". When you make games for "everyone" they become watered down and eventually you're bowling in the bumper lanes again. That way no one gets hurt. But is it fun?
If the world is interesting and worth exploring, then other people using fast travel should not bother you, and the world will draw in a lot more than just you to the open world.
Even in games that don't meet this criteria, how does other people choosing to use fast travel bother you in the slightest?
Sounds to me like you just want to make a quick plat but sitting in town and spamming a taxi service all day. You have no basis for what you say, at all. Hell, GW2 has the most liberal fast travel system out of just about any game ever and it's got one of the most populated and living open world's I've seen in years. (Why? Because the game mechanics bring people together and don't trivialize sub lvl 79 content)
As for "People getting bored with GW2". The only people who got bored with GW2 are the ones who require gear treadmills to be happy. That's the #1 main reason people stopped playing GW2(And that's fine, but it's not a fault* on GW2, there are hundreds of gear treadmill MMORPGs, there was no need for GW2 to be another one). Those who find enjoyment in the game play itself, who enjoy the dynamic events, enjoy the WvWvW pvp, enjoy the tPvP, are still playing and the Dev team releases new content / holiday events just about every other month.
In fact, GW2's populations are beyond healthy. There are still times where you got to sit in a que just to get into WvW.
All this is a moot point though, you've already been educated.
In most games it's not at all.
In EQ most of the time it was not interesting past the 1st or 2nd run. It was neat to see new places and such, but every once in a while something weird would happen. Some super high lvl boss would be mixed in with low / equal level stuff and kill you. The Kithicor woods example is a good one. Run through during the day and it's super easy. Run through at night and it's full of high lvl undead that will one shot you lol.
Overall, just running is not fun. It's a barrier between experiences, it was not an experience itself. However, if you think to games like GW2, Skyrim or DayZ, the traveling is a part of the experience and it makes the game really fun.
In GW2, you got dynamic events that pop up and you end up in epic fights and big boss battles as you run around and explore.
In Skyrim, random events happen that make the traveling interesting (Dragon's attack, people beg you for help, An NPC stops you and ends up leading you on an epic quest with unique loot, bandits jump out and attack you, thieves stop you on the road and tell you to hand over your coins, etc etc.)
In Skyrim, traveling is a major part of the experience. It's fun and exciting because you never know what you're going to run into or what you're going to find.
In DayZ, traveling around is also a part of the game experience. You're most likely to be PKed while traveling around. Knowing how and when to move, keeping an eye out, avoiding bandits, etc etc. It's all a part of the game. Every time you venture out from where you're camping there is a high chance you're going to be PKed (or maybe meet a new friend, rarely). Hopefully in the Stand Alone zombie NPCs will also be more a part of the danger, but right now the only real threat are the other survivors.
But in any case, you get the point. In some games, traveling is fun because it's a part of the game's experience. In most MMORPGs, even EQ, traveling wasn't really much of an experience (Once in a while it was, which is what people tend to remember) , but in many MMORPGs, travel is about as cerebral as holding W for 30 minutes....
Point is, traveling isn't automatically fun. The game needs mechanics and features in play to make it fun.
Originally posted by Grailer I dont wanna be waiting 2 hrs for players to turn up to raid. Need fast travel. Even Ultima Online had fast travel
Not uh! Back in my day we walked from Freeport to Kelethin barefoot up hills both ways, every day.
Originally posted by azzamasin Originally posted by Myrdynn still like how Asheron's Call did fast travel better than any other game. In case you didnt know, you could be tied to one portal, and have the ability to summon that portal. You had to visit the portal to tie to it
Yup the best fast travel in any MMO ever. It had all the things needed in an MMO to work. Not only did anyone have the ability but you were pretty much required to have social interaction to be able to travel around Dereth because the individual only had the ability to portal to 2 places.
yes I loved that system,and you could allways learn the routs of World portals and use the subway, Lovely game best ever.