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Originally posted by maplestone Originally posted by DamonVile So if f2p is like your alcoholic brother in law does that make p2p your bitch ex-wife ?
That's sort of the point of this discussion, isn't it? It's the cash shop / item mall that's that problem. Catagorizing games by the barrier to entry is putting the emphasis in the wrong place.
I think to answer that properly I'd have to know where you stand on the whole free thing.
I'm fine with it because I know what it really means. I don't really think the name is all that important. Like some others have said people know what I'm saying if I say f2p they know what I mean when I say p2p. Does it matter if I think p2p is a rip off and a scam ? it's not really why you're using the word in the first place.
So do you want the name to describe what you think of f2p games or do you actually think that free word is misleading people ?
Originally posted by jtcgs Games like AoC, SWTOR...Rift are not F2P, they are freemium.
The games you list can be played for free. They're free to play.
Implying they're not F2P is nonsense. They're free to play.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Originally posted by DamonVile I think to answer that properly I'd have to know where you stand on the whole free thing.
Well, there go my fears that I've been spamming my opinions too much.
Yes, because no game out there is free to play to the fullest without paying a penny nowadays.
I could understand if you were talking about a certain type of "free to play" games, SWTOR for example. I'm not sure what's up with this community and wanting to throw their money at games serving the same thing every few months, such as WoW. On the other hand, you bash games that give you the game free of charge, unless you want to pay money.
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by jtcgs Games like AoC, SWTOR...Rift are not F2P, they are freemium.
Personally I don't see calling a game freemium as a negative and would rather people called them that over free to play. If that's how they're set up.They're not like other free to play games. They are much more focused on try it for free but it's designed to be played with a sub. They tend to offer much more for the sub than most free to play games do for theirs
Freemium to me sits between p2p and f2p.
It is free to play though... no they don't say how much you can play. Your point is like saying a state park isn't free to enter because they might have an ice cream shop and a souvenir stand in there. ZOMG IT'S NOT REALLY FREE I HAZ TO PAY FOR ICE CREAMZ AND T-SHIRT!!! RAWR!!!!
Just get over it, seriously.
Maybe sub games should be called buy to pay to play or B2P2P because you have to buy in order to pay to play. Saying it's just pay to play is misleading.Because you can buy to play a B2P game without having to P2P but you cannot P2P a P2P game without having to first B2P, yes you heard it here first. Then there's expansions its more like buy to pay to play to buy to play for higher level.
The ultimate and most accurate model.
You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!
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Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy? :P
f2p = failed to pay.
AAA f2p is the last step in the process: how to squeeze some money out of the failed initial investment.
I am always amazed how failed subscription based games are considered so much "better" once they go free to pay.
The human species : so easely squeezed.
Originally posted by DamonVile Personally I don't see calling a game freemium as a negative and would rather people called them that over free to play. If that's how they're set up.They're not like other free to play games. They are much more focused on try it for free but it's designed to be played with a sub. They tend to offer much more for the sub than most free to play games do for theirs Freemium to me sits between p2p and f2p.
If that's the term you want to use, that's fine.
But almost everyone is calling free to play games "free to play" (because they're free to play.)
Until there are free to play games which aren't free to play, they will be free to play games. These discussions always strike me as completely ridiculous because the term is so straightforward.
Originally posted by Tierless I prefer the terms "life support" (LS) or "jumped the shark" (JTS) or "grasping at straws" (GAS)
Ahahahh............you made my day.
ftp reminds me of food marketing
LESS IS MORE! (no salt potato chips!)
Kickstarter: Stuff I'm supporting
And for B2P, we should label it more like "Buy to Play and then Buy Some More After Paying Almost LIke its a 'F2P' Title just with an initial price tag!"
Though I guess that would be to long compared to B2P... but hey, since F2P needs to not use the term due to its cash shop (which btw mmos NEED cash to exist, fyi) it only seems right B2P stop pretending you pay once when they are set up to have you pay AFTER for cash shop goods (aka Secret World and Guild Wars 2 as the two recent big ones).
I know nit picky but hey! Which you can also bring to P2P games with WOW having mounts you buy so could be P2P with expensive mounts and future cash shop in game as well with subscription!
Sorry whew I went off topic, guess thats what happens when people make a silly topic when you basically would have to label EVERY TYPE OF PAYMENT MODEL for what they do.
I have always used P2E
Pay to Enjoy
they give you an excrutiatingly boring/painful experience, and then point you to the cash shop and tell you "see, this could be so much better, if you want to remove the obstacles that we purposedly put in your way, and actually enjoy the game, you'll have to open your wallet"
thats why F2P games rarely have top level players that have been playing for long, for free. the game is designed to get rid of them halfway. F2P gamers are endless game hoppers, hit the paywall, feel "forced" to leave game regardless they were having fun and were considering to stay long term, start again in another f2p just to have the same repeated.
I have played UO for 4 years straight, then L2 for another 4, and a couple years on and off in other p2p games, like Rift, FFXI or WAR
I dont think I have ever endured more than 1 month in any f2p game. I'd say 90% of them were uninstalled from my system before 1 week.
Im sure most people here could relate similar experiences
Originally posted by Arskaaa"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by bestever Originally posted by doodphace Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by lizardbones Originally posted by Arclan One only need look at threads here to see "F2P" is hated by many and loved (dearly) by a few. But the term "F2P," is a marketing term coined by the very industry it serves. Saying "Free to Play" is about as useful as a grocery store claiming "Free to Shop." I propose anyone who dislikes F2P to stop using that term since it only furthers their cause. Use "Monetization Model," instead or simply MM.
F2P is obviously free for most players, and for me.
Name me a F2P MMO that provides access to the exact same content for both F2Pers and Subscribers?
Im not talking XP boosts and the like, im tlaking access to all of the same zones, gear, raids, dungons, races, classes etc. Any game that doesnt offer both, are not F2P..they are simply extended trials...there really is no debate here.
Tera, you can play the entire game for free. Rift is pretty much the same but they charge for the new souls if you want them and that's the only thing you would need to buy for rift, nothing else stops you from playing the entire game.
Swtor is the perfect example of what you state and many others. These two mmo's have done F2P perfectly.
In the end they still need money to run the servers and pay the people that work at these company's.
Fallen earth as well. and @dood no I don't agree with your version of f2p defintion. If I can play the game for free, it is f2p. If you consider being able to log thousands upon thousands of hours in a game access all zones, craft... but be limited by races or classes an extended trial. Well thats just too bad, you're wrong.
Well, im personally a raider first and foremost....therefore Rift seems to be the only legit "F2P" option for me.
If I cant equip raid gear, or even step into the raids without paying, then the game is not F2P.
Thousands upon thousands of hours playing single player content because 5 man dungons are capped at 3 per week unless you pay....is an extended free trial...
Originally posted by Axehilt Originally posted by DamonVile Personally I don't see calling a game freemium as a negative and would rather people called them that over free to play. If that's how they're set up.They're not like other free to play games. They are much more focused on try it for free but it's designed to be played with a sub. They tend to offer much more for the sub than most free to play games do for theirs Freemium to me sits between p2p and f2p.
It's the same reason people call some games mmoarpgs or mmotps mmofps ect ect. They're all just mmos so why not call them all mmos ? It's our nature to want to use our language to help give more detail to a name that actually describes what it is.
If I tell someone it's a freemium game and you say it's f2p who told the third party more about what to expect. If I say a game is a mmofps and you call it a mmo ...same thing. Nether is wrong or lied to anyone but one name is far more specific about the nature of the game.
Originally posted by Muntz Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose, Nothing don't mean nothing honey if it ain't free, now now.
Did you "date" yourself with that reference?
Did I "date" myself by knowing it?
Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by Axehilt If that's the term you want to use, that's fine. But almost everyone is calling free to play games "free to play" (because they're free to play.) Until there are free to play games which aren't free to play, they will be free to play games. These discussions always strike me as completely ridiculous because the term is so straightforward.
I believe that's the main thing. The language. We strive to give absolute definition to ideas and concepts. Is it to clearly define something or a way to categorize and segregate things we don't wish to have in our 'preferred' definition.
Language is always changing, new words introduced into the dictionary, words morphed so the usage can encompass new meanings. The lines sometimes become blurred.
I agree with both of you because to me you are debating the same side of the coin.
Some good acronyms, lol
Originally posted by azmundaiCMTP : costs more to playCSG : cash shop gameNWS : not worth a subscriptionTMC : two months of content
Originally posted by WaterlilyIAT: it's a trap
I'll stick with MM, but here are a couple more:
DPM: Deceptive pricing modelAMTS: Alot more than subscriptionNADTYB: Nickle and dime til you're bankruptNFLF: NO free lunch, foolF2L: Free to loginTIMGY: Time is money, gimme yours.G: Gotcha
Originally posted by Waterlily...A F2P game is like your alcoholist brother in law who nags you for money each time you see him.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by lizardbones This is just another version of the "F2P games aren't actually free" thread.
I agree. It gets a little tired after awhile.
Thanks,MikeWorking on Social Strategy MMORTS (now Launched!) http://www.worldalpha.com
Originally posted by Four0Six Originally posted by Muntz Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose, Nothing don't mean nothing honey if it ain't free, now now.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Why keep arguing what "free" means in "free-to-play" or "F2P"?
Both F2P and "free-to-play" are not in the common dictionaries so don't just pick whatever meaning of "free" from them and say that's the meaning of F2P or "free-to-play".
Every online game has an EULA. That's what it counts, not what you think it should count.
Originally posted by Waterlily Originally posted by boxsnd F2P haters are kind of funny. They are people who refuse when offered free things and insist on paying for them.
Or they have some brain cells left and realise very few things in life are free.
Very few .. but F2P games are one of those.
Let me see ... i played STO, Marvel Heroes, and DCUO. I have not paid a cent. Tell me how it is not free for me? (And let's not hair splitting about whether i have to pay for electricity. I am talking about paying the owner of those games).