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Are F2P models more successful with a declined socioeconomic society?

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  • AxehiltAxehilt San Francisco, CAPosts: 8,719Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by danwest58

    That Higher Pay ceiling you are talking about is going to go away.  A few of my old school MMO buddies played Runes of Magic for several years and spent well over $30K in about 4 years.  Today they no longer play Runes of Magic or any other MMO because they realized how much they spent in MMOs and now with kids they no longer feel the genera is worth the effort because F2P.  The whole F2P deal is a fade that will cause many publishers to close in the coming years due to the fact there are more people playing for free requiring these publishers to spend money to support FREE than Whales spending endless amounts of cash.  

    Um, that doesn't make the pay ceiling shrink.  What you're describing is:

    • Old gamers sometimes die.  Often aging gamers spend less time in games about massive timesinks as they get older.  I could provide an example of friends who stopped playing subscription MMOs, but like your anecdotal evidence it wouldn't really describe the much larger market forces at work which are well known to anyone who's spent any significant amount of time seriously researching this stuff.
    • Mediocre games result in lower ARPU.  If those players felt like $30k didn't provide a worthy amount of entertainment, they'll be less likely to have a high ARPU in future games
    • And finally you correctly imply that ARPU matters more than a high pay ceiling.  (Because if I make a free to play Tic Tac Toe game with a $100,000 microtransaction to make your pieces gold-colored, the pay ceiling is high but the ARPU probably hasn't actually increased because nobody will actually purchase that.)  But of course you can't increase ARPU without having a high enough pay ceiling, and you will massively gimp your ARPU if your pay ceiling is $15/mo (plus box).
    You can dislike F2P games if you'd like, but the fact is the model works and certainly isn't a fad.

    "Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
    "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." -Socrates

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Axehilt

    You can dislike F2P games if you'd like, but the fact is the model works and certainly isn't a fad.

    And so far, all evidence is pointing to F2P working fine. It is making more money than p2p and it is growing. That is the definition of "work".

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Subscription puts a cap on what a person can spend. Microtransactions allows people who want to send more to do so. Such is the reason for concession and souvenier stands at games/concerts, and Pay Per View content above and beyond your monthly service.

    You guys really do overthink this, rather than just look at every other form of entertainment and see it's being adopted because both buyer and seller seems to like it.

     

    No, subscriptions put a minimum on what a player *MUST* spend.  You *MUST* spend $15 a month.   You can spend more in the shop.  F2P says you don't have to spend anything, but you *CAN* if you want.  You are very correct that there is a reason many entertainment venues are going that way, because more people like it than don't.

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  • Cephus404Cephus404 Redlands, CAPosts: 3,675Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Rediculous thread, Rhino. Truth is that most people in F2P are paying a lot more than $15 a month. Deception denied.

    I'm not, I've never paid a penny in a F2P game and neither have the majority of people who play them.

    Do try again though.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Cephus404
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Rediculous thread, Rhino. Truth is that most people in F2P are paying a lot more than $15 a month. Deception denied.

    I'm not, I've never paid a penny in a F2P game and neither have the majority of people who play them.

    Do try again though.

    He has no truth. All evidence points to most players don't pay a dime.

    http://www.playnomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Playnomics-Q1-Engagement-Report.pdf

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195806/chasing_the_whale_examining_the_.php

     

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon

    People just don't want to pay for things ahead if they are not certain they will use it to it's full value or not.

     

    It is the same reason why a lot of people don't join a gym or martial arts or yoga classes - it is not because people don't want to get fit and exercise but it is because they are not certain they can have the free time to go frequent enough to make their membership worthwhile, so they instead join the ones that can be pay by per lesson/session. Modern day people's lives are hectic and it is not easy to have regular schedule time to do things.

     

    That's why pay-as-you-go system tends to popular, unless there is significant benefit to going sub (ie. it is very cheap).

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,762Member Uncommon
    When times are hard people want things cheaper. If we had a real recession you have to wonder how much more cheaper than free they would want to play a game?
  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,705Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rhinotones

    Originally posted by ste2000

    This.

    When I was playing Eve and Darkfall I had 2 Account each running at the same time for a long time.

    Now I am playing Rift, not just because it is F2P but because there's nothing going on at the moment until, EQNext, Shroud of the Avatar, Archeage, Pathfinder, which are the games I am really looking forward to.

    By the way I wouldn't have played Rift if it had a monthly subscription, because it is not good enough to deserve my 15$ a month.

     

    So all this theories about F2P being the future and Subscriptions going extinct it is Bulls.

    Truth is that Developers cannot make a good MMORPGs anymore, they make Online Games which die after a month and need F2P to survive.

    That's the truth.

    I've had a similar experience to you where I have played Rift only because it was F2P while waiting for the next game I'm wanting to play and invest in.

    If your last point holds any truth it raises a very interesting question to me. Why can't they make MMORPGs to your expectations anymore? Is it because the risk v return is too great because of the funding required to develop it, or do you have an alternative reason?

    Well, to answer your question, it is actually very simple.

    All AAA MMORPGs are made by medium to big size companies, which means the rely on Marketing rather than Creativity.

    When the Game Producer need to explain to the Board of Directors why his game will be successful, he has to talk about numbers, not theories.

    The numbers comes from the Marketing Department that through a marketing research, decide what game design will work and what won't.

    If the Game Producer start describing his theory to the Board based on his gut feelings, that's not what the board wants to hear............they want solid numbers, hence why all recent MMORPGs look so similar, because they are made to satisfy certain marketing criteria.

     

    The thing is though that games are Art, and need Creativity, Passion, and Gut instinct to be successful.

    The Marketing approach in MMORPGs and Gaming in general, do not work too well.

    The most succesful games are made by Indie Developers simply because they put creativity ahead of marketing when they make their game.

    Think about Bioware, how much they changed since they've been bought by EA, so much that even their founders "retired" in order to avoid being associated with EA+Bioware.

    The latest Dragon Age and Mass Effect are still good, but not as good as the previous ones, and I am sure that we will see the full destructive force of EA in the next instalment of those games, now that the original founders of Bioware left.

     

    Big Companies need to trust more Game Producers/Designers, only this way we can see innovative new games.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,658Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rhinotones

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Subscription puts a cap on what a person can spend. Microtransactions allows people who want to send more to do so. Such is the reason for concession and souvenier stands at games/concerts, and Pay Per View content above and beyond your monthly service.

    You guys really do overthink this, rather than just look at every other form of entertainment and see it's being adopted because both buyer and seller seems to like it.

    Are you suggesting that a game would earn more revenue being F2P over Subscription? If so, in your opinion, why haven't all games adopted the F2P model? 

    Like any other product or service, there's no universally perfect MMO business model. Some MMOs are better suited to one model than another.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by Arclan Rediculous thread, Rhino. Truth is that most people in F2P are paying a lot more than $15 a month. Deception denied.
    I'm not, I've never paid a penny in a F2P game and neither have the majority of people who play them. Do try again though.
    He has no truth. All evidence points to most players don't pay a dime.

    http://www.playnomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Playnomics-Q1-Engagement-Report.pdf

    http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/195806/chasing_the_whale_examining_the_.php



    The only evidence I've seen is a poster on this site telling us the results of his self administered in-game poll which showed most players were paying $60 a month or much much more. I encourage others do their own poll. Look, I can quote gamasutra too:


    Originally posted by gamasutra: F2P Gaming - Removing the StigmaIf you haven't done so, glance over Ramin Shokrizade's recent article on F2P monetization tricks. Even though this only touches some of the techniques used, it should start you towards recognizing a theme. F2P monetization is rarely about telling the customer up front "this is what you get for how much, and this is how your experience will be affected by paid mechanics."

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

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