They aren't doing anything legally fraudulent calling it F2P because enough of it is free even if what is free isn't great.It's up to consumers to do product research and use their money wisely.Not up to us to coddle stupid people.
Originally posted by Arclan One only need look at threads here to see "F2P" is hated by many and loved (dearly) by a few. But the term "F2P," is a marketing term coined by the very industry it serves. Saying "Free to Play" is about as useful as a grocery store claiming "Free to Shop."
I propose anyone who dislikes F2P to stop using that term since it only furthers their cause. Use "Monetization Model," instead or simply MM.
You're assuming that people don't understand what the term means. Everyone here understands what the term means. If I use the term "F2P" to describe a game, then people have an idea of what to expect. For instance, if EQN is F2P, people know they can download, install and start playing the game without spending any upfront money.
This is just another version of the "F2P games aren't actually free" thread.
Yeh.
F2P is obviously free for most players, and for me.
Name me a F2P MMO that provides access to the exact same content for both F2Pers and Subscribers?
Im not talking XP boosts and the like, im tlaking access to all of the same zones, gear, raids, dungons, races, classes etc. Any game that doesnt offer both, are not F2P..they are simply extended trials...there really is no debate here.
F2P is obviously free for most players, and for me.
Name me a F2P MMO that provides access to the exact same content for both F2Pers and Subscribers?
Im not talking XP boosts and the like, im tlaking access to all of the same zones, gear, raids, dungons, races, classes etc. Any game that doesnt offer both, are not F2P..they are simply extended trials...there really is no debate here.
What does that have to do with anything? I said "free", not "same amount of content as paid".
50% of content free is still free. In fact, that 50% is the whole game for me. For all i am concern, the paid content may as well be DLC that i am not interested in buying.
One only need look at threads here to see "F2P" is hated by many and loved (dearly) by a few. But the term "F2P," is a marketing term coined by the very industry it serves. Saying "Free to Play" is about as useful as a grocery store claiming "Free to Shop."
I propose anyone who dislikes F2P to stop using that term since it only furthers their cause. Use "Monetization Model," instead or simply MM.
Why would we stop using something accurate and useful (F2P) and replace it with something vague and useless (MM)?
All games have a monetization model. Subscription fees are part of a monetization model.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
One only need look at threads here to see "F2P" is hated by many and loved (dearly) by a few. But the term "F2P," is a marketing term coined by the very industry it serves. Saying "Free to Play" is about as useful as a grocery store claiming "Free to Shop."
I propose anyone who dislikes F2P to stop using that term since it only furthers their cause. Use "Monetization Model," instead or simply MM.
Why would we stop using something accurate and useful (F2P) and replace it with something vague and useless (MM)?
All games have a monetization model. Subscription fees are part of a monetization model.
And arguing about labels and definition is moot.
It is about common usage. Arclan can argue until his finger bleeds, and tomorrow, everyone is still going to use "F2P".
Originally posted by Arclan One only need look at threads here to see "F2P" is hated by many and loved (dearly) by a few. But the term "F2P," is a marketing term coined by the very industry it serves. Saying "Free to Play" is about as useful as a grocery store claiming "Free to Shop."
I propose anyone who dislikes F2P to stop using that term since it only furthers their cause. Use "Monetization Model," instead or simply MM.
You're assuming that people don't understand what the term means. Everyone here understands what the term means. If I use the term "F2P" to describe a game, then people have an idea of what to expect. For instance, if EQN is F2P, people know they can download, install and start playing the game without spending any upfront money.
This is just another version of the "F2P games aren't actually free" thread.
Yeh.
F2P is obviously free for most players, and for me.
Name me a F2P MMO that provides access to the exact same content for both F2Pers and Subscribers?
Im not talking XP boosts and the like, im tlaking access to all of the same zones, gear, raids, dungons, races, classes etc. Any game that doesnt offer both, are not F2P..they are simply extended trials...there really is no debate here.
Tera, you can play the entire game for free. Rift is pretty much the same but they charge for the new souls if you want them and that's the only thing you would need to buy for rift, nothing else stops you from playing the entire game.
Swtor is the perfect example of what you state and many others. These two mmo's have done F2P perfectly.
In the end they still need money to run the servers and pay the people that work at these company's.
Fallen earth as well. and @dood ;no I don't agree with your version of f2p defintion. If I can play the game for free, it is f2p. If you consider being able to log thousands upon thousands of hours in a game access all zones, craft... but be limited by races or classes an extended trial. Well thats just too bad, you're wrong.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Shadowguy64 It should be F2T- Free to Try
At what point are you not playing, but rather trying, a F2P game? Not all of them are the same, nor are the expectations of every player. Some games have been truly free to play for me, because I didn't spend money on them. At the risk of sounding old, when I was growing up you had to pay 50 bucks just to decide if you even liked the game, to say nothing of how little content there was compared to even today's most casual F2P's. People expect a lot more these days it seems, but fun is where you find it IMO.
Originally posted by Shadowguy64 It should be F2T- Free to Try
At what point are you not playing, but rather trying, a F2P game? Not all of them are the same, nor are the expectations of every player. Some games have been truly free to play for me, because I didn't spend money on them. At the risk of sounding old, when I was growing up you had to pay 50 bucks just to decide if you even liked the game, to say nothing of how little content there was compared to even today's most casual F2P's. People expect a lot more these days it seems, but fun is where you find it IMO.
And how is it "trying' when you can play to the end of the game in some F2P games?
Originally posted by Shadowguy64 It should be F2T- Free to Try
At what point are you not playing, but rather trying, a F2P game? Not all of them are the same, nor are the expectations of every player. Some games have been truly free to play for me, because I didn't spend money on them. At the risk of sounding old, when I was growing up you had to pay 50 bucks just to decide if you even liked the game, to say nothing of how little content there was compared to even today's most casual F2P's. People expect a lot more these days it seems, but fun is where you find it IMO.
And how is it "trying' when you can play to the end of the game in some F2P games?
Well, using 100% free as a requirement, (almost) all F2P games hinder you in some form or another via inventory limitations, item quality limitations, skill/talent limitations, etc.
So, for me to le able to enjoy the game in the same manor I would in a subscription game, I would need to PAY for the unlocks on those items....which removes the "free" part. But I am able to "try" the game before I decide to pump money into it. That's where I made up the Free to Try thing.
Honestly, I'm not too caught up in the semantics. I enjoy messing around with a F2P game just like everyone else. I just haven't found one that I was vested in that made putting money into seem worthwhile.
Well, using 100% free as a requirement, (almost) all F2P games hinder you in some form or another via inventory limitations, item quality limitations, skill/talent limitations, etc.
So, for me to le able to enjoy the game in the same manor I would in a subscription game, I would need to PAY for the unlocks on those items....which removes the "free" part. But I am able to "try" the game before I decide to pump money into it. That's where I made up the Free to Try thing.
That is the point. No one (except my be you) use 100% free as a requirement. It is just relative. If a restaurant give you a free desert, but not the whole meal, would you complain?
And who says you need to enjoy the game in the same manner as a sub game? Enjoy it differently. In fact, i am happier be able to game hop at will, not shackled by the feeling that i paid a sub and i need to play more.
EQ can play the entire game free all content every zone, race, class, raid, quest all free. In fact in EQ and EQ2 you can buy kronos for plat which give 30 days of a sub so the time you spend in game doing stuff you're earning a subscription cost if you wanted to buy that item for plat.
EQ2 ^^^^^
Vanguard ^^^^^
PS2 I play it took me 2 weeks to unlock a better weapon that is reasonable you want every single unlock in the game instantly without earning it ? Spend the cash or earn it otherwise don't play the game if you don't like it. You're not useless because you do not have the unlocks maybe you just suck at the game.
F2P works when the company sees free players as a positive instead of a negative. Most of them want everyone to spend $ while companies like SOE see players as content they make the world living and encourage the people who want to spend $ to spend it more often because the game is active.
Dead games do not promote spending.
Aside from the political slant at the start and calling SOE's system the best ( it is one of the best ones but not the only one) I agree with this post. Also I am pretty sure the OP was mostly just trolling for shits and giggles... either that or was under some chemical induced cognitive impairment... no one could be that narrow-minded while being lucid.
I don't see how using the term "MM" is going to help me have a meaningful conversation about about a game. There are currently three prevalent models - P2P, B2P and F2P for MMOs. ALL those are "monetization models", just different ones. If someone tells me that "game X is using a monetization model", that tells me absolutely nothing. I'll still need an elaboration, which will usually come in the shape of P2P/Sub, B2P or F2P.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Well, using 100% free as a requirement, (almost) all F2P games hinder you in some form or another via inventory limitations, item quality limitations, skill/talent limitations, etc.
So, for me to le able to enjoy the game in the same manor I would in a subscription game, I would need to PAY for the unlocks on those items....which removes the "free" part. But I am able to "try" the game before I decide to pump money into it. That's where I made up the Free to Try thing.
That is the point. No one (except my be you) use 100% free as a requirement. It is just relative. If a restaurant give you a free desert, but not the whole meal, would you complain?
And who says you need to enjoy the game in the same manner as a sub game? Enjoy it differently. In fact, i am happier be able to game hop at will, not shackled by the feeling that i paid a sub and i need to play more.
So would that be a F2E - free to eat restaurant? I was actually going to close this thread and not pay any attention because I don't care what developers call F2P games, but this was too funny to pass up.
If you got dessert for free at a restaurant, no one would call it a free to eat restaurant. It wouldn't be true. Nor would that restaurant allow people in and only serve them the free dessert as it was complimentary for having dinner there.
One only need look at threads here to see "F2P" is hated by many and loved (dearly) by a few. But the term "F2P," is a marketing term coined by the very industry it serves. Saying "Free to Play" is about as useful as a grocery store claiming "Free to Shop."
I propose anyone who dislikes F2P to stop using that term since it only furthers their cause. Use "Monetization Model," instead or simply MM.
Or, or...we could just call ACTUAL F2P games F2P and Freemium games Freemium and stop being tools of game makers!
Games like AoC, SWTOR...Rift are not F2P, they are freemium.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
One only need look at threads here to see "F2P" is hated by many and loved (dearly) by a few. But the term "F2P," is a marketing term coined by the very industry it serves. Saying "Free to Play" is about as useful as a grocery store claiming "Free to Shop."
I propose anyone who dislikes F2P to stop using that term since it only furthers their cause. Use "Monetization Model," instead or simply MM.
From now on I'll refer to F2P as FTT (Free to Try) as i've hated the term "Free-To-Play" when it has NEVER EVER been free, and always rips the soul out of the game and puts it into their shop for you to pay for.
F2P haters are kind of funny. They are people who refuse when offered free things and insist on paying for them. They even refuse to try things before buying them. They prefer to go in blind! In my country we call them victims.
One only need look at threads here to see "F2P" is hated by many and loved (dearly) by a few. But the term "F2P," is a marketing term coined by the very industry it serves. Saying "Free to Play" is about as useful as a grocery store claiming "Free to Shop."
I propose anyone who dislikes F2P to stop using that term since it only furthers their cause. Use "Monetization Model," instead or simply MM.
From now on I'll refer to F2P as FTT (Free to Try) as i've hated the term "Free-To-Play" when it has NEVER EVER been free, and always rips the soul out of the game and puts it into their shop for you to pay for.
I still prefer a flat LOW LOW rate of $15/month.
OMG THEY RIPPED THE HEART OUT OF THE GAME BY MAKING ME BY A BAG FOR $5 ONE TIME!
its soo much better to pay $15 a month every month than have to go through that horrible pain.
Odds are, you have never played a F2P game, only freemium games which only use the term F2P because most western players have no clue what it is.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by Arclan One only need look at threads here to see "F2P" is hated by many and loved (dearly) by a few. But the term "F2P," is a marketing term coined by the very industry it serves. Saying "Free to Play" is about as useful as a grocery store claiming "Free to Shop."
I propose anyone who dislikes F2P to stop using that term since it only furthers their cause. Use "Monetization Model," instead or simply MM.
You're assuming that people don't understand what the term means. Everyone here understands what the term means. If I use the term "F2P" to describe a game, then people have an idea of what to expect. For instance, if EQN is F2P, people know they can download, install and start playing the game without spending any upfront money.
This is just another version of the "F2P games aren't actually free" thread.
I agree with Lizardbones. People already know what it means. There's no hidden surprise.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Well, using 100% free as a requirement, (almost) all F2P games hinder you in some form or another via inventory limitations, item quality limitations, skill/talent limitations, etc.
So what? That's like saying P2P games hinder players because they allow upgrades in their shops. In most F2P games you never hit a wall that you cannot get around, it just might not be as simple as if you paid to get around it.
So, for me to le able to enjoy the game in the same manor I would in a subscription game, I would need to PAY for the unlocks on those items....which removes the "free" part. But I am able to "try" the game before I decide to pump money into it. That's where I made up the Free to Try thing.
So you buy all of the inventory upgrades and the optional mounts and everything else in most P2P games? I can't think of many P2P games that don't have shops now. If you have to have everything to be happy, you must be whipping out the credit card a lot.
Honestly, I'm not too caught up in the semantics. I enjoy messing around with a F2P game just like everyone else. I just haven't found one that I was vested in that made putting money into seem worthwhile.
I haven't found a P2P game worth playing either. What does that mean?
Comments
Nothing don't mean nothing honey if it ain't free, now now.
Caveat emptor.
They aren't doing anything legally fraudulent calling it F2P because enough of it is free even if what is free isn't great.It's up to consumers to do product research and use their money wisely.Not up to us to coddle stupid people.
Name me a F2P MMO that provides access to the exact same content for both F2Pers and Subscribers?
Im not talking XP boosts and the like, im tlaking access to all of the same zones, gear, raids, dungons, races, classes etc. Any game that doesnt offer both, are not F2P..they are simply extended trials...there really is no debate here.
What does that have to do with anything? I said "free", not "same amount of content as paid".
50% of content free is still free. In fact, that 50% is the whole game for me. For all i am concern, the paid content may as well be DLC that i am not interested in buying.
Yeh. And they don't need the free player like me to pay because there are whales.
Why would we stop using something accurate and useful (F2P) and replace it with something vague and useless (MM)?
All games have a monetization model. Subscription fees are part of a monetization model.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
to play
verb
to engage in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose
And arguing about labels and definition is moot.
It is about common usage. Arclan can argue until his finger bleeds, and tomorrow, everyone is still going to use "F2P".
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DavidParis/20130710/195974/F2P_Gaming__Removing_the_Stigma.php
more from Gamasutra
that is relevant to the OP's point about monetisation etc.
I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone
Fallen earth as well. and @dood ;no I don't agree with your version of f2p defintion. If I can play the game for free, it is f2p. If you consider being able to log thousands upon thousands of hours in a game access all zones, craft... but be limited by races or classes an extended trial. Well thats just too bad, you're wrong.
F2P are like Lawyers. Just call them the Lawyers model.
Beware the sharks of the gaming industry.
At what point are you not playing, but rather trying, a F2P game? Not all of them are the same, nor are the expectations of every player. Some games have been truly free to play for me, because I didn't spend money on them. At the risk of sounding old, when I was growing up you had to pay 50 bucks just to decide if you even liked the game, to say nothing of how little content there was compared to even today's most casual F2P's. People expect a lot more these days it seems, but fun is where you find it IMO.
And how is it "trying' when you can play to the end of the game in some F2P games?
Well, using 100% free as a requirement, (almost) all F2P games hinder you in some form or another via inventory limitations, item quality limitations, skill/talent limitations, etc.
So, for me to le able to enjoy the game in the same manor I would in a subscription game, I would need to PAY for the unlocks on those items....which removes the "free" part. But I am able to "try" the game before I decide to pump money into it. That's where I made up the Free to Try thing.
Honestly, I'm not too caught up in the semantics. I enjoy messing around with a F2P game just like everyone else. I just haven't found one that I was vested in that made putting money into seem worthwhile.
That is the point. No one (except my be you) use 100% free as a requirement. It is just relative. If a restaurant give you a free desert, but not the whole meal, would you complain?
And who says you need to enjoy the game in the same manner as a sub game? Enjoy it differently. In fact, i am happier be able to game hop at will, not shackled by the feeling that i paid a sub and i need to play more.
Aside from the political slant at the start and calling SOE's system the best ( it is one of the best ones but not the only one) I agree with this post. Also I am pretty sure the OP was mostly just trolling for shits and giggles... either that or was under some chemical induced cognitive impairment... no one could be that narrow-minded while being lucid.
I don't see how using the term "MM" is going to help me have a meaningful conversation about about a game. There are currently three prevalent models - P2P, B2P and F2P for MMOs. ALL those are "monetization models", just different ones. If someone tells me that "game X is using a monetization model", that tells me absolutely nothing. I'll still need an elaboration, which will usually come in the shape of P2P/Sub, B2P or F2P.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
So would that be a F2E - free to eat restaurant? I was actually going to close this thread and not pay any attention because I don't care what developers call F2P games, but this was too funny to pass up.
If you got dessert for free at a restaurant, no one would call it a free to eat restaurant. It wouldn't be true. Nor would that restaurant allow people in and only serve them the free dessert as it was complimentary for having dinner there.
Or, or...we could just call ACTUAL F2P games F2P and Freemium games Freemium and stop being tools of game makers!
Games like AoC, SWTOR...Rift are not F2P, they are freemium.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
From now on I'll refer to F2P as FTT (Free to Try) as i've hated the term "Free-To-Play" when it has NEVER EVER been free, and always rips the soul out of the game and puts it into their shop for you to pay for.
I still prefer a flat LOW LOW rate of $15/month.
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
OMG THEY RIPPED THE HEART OUT OF THE GAME BY MAKING ME BY A BAG FOR $5 ONE TIME!
its soo much better to pay $15 a month every month than have to go through that horrible pain.
Odds are, you have never played a F2P game, only freemium games which only use the term F2P because most western players have no clue what it is.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
I agree with Lizardbones. People already know what it means. There's no hidden surprise.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So what? That's like saying P2P games hinder players because they allow upgrades in their shops. In most F2P games you never hit a wall that you cannot get around, it just might not be as simple as if you paid to get around it.
So you buy all of the inventory upgrades and the optional mounts and everything else in most P2P games? I can't think of many P2P games that don't have shops now. If you have to have everything to be happy, you must be whipping out the credit card a lot.
I haven't found a P2P game worth playing either. What does that mean?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None