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Are we happy that its free to play? What about Buy to Play?

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  • IadienIadien Charleston, WVPosts: 638Member
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Iceman8235
    I think F2P will work fine for EQ next.  It'll help keep the servers full longer.  Having a stable income, if I enjoy the game I'll most likely sub to it if there are time saving bonuses involved in subbing.

     

     

    F2p does not provide stable income. It provides a quick in rush and then in 2 months the income is gone. That's what the devs want not what the players want.

    SoE clearly disagrees with you. Maybe you should alert them, and tell them that their numbers are wrong and to switch back to their old business model.

    Also, League of Legends (AKA money machine) disagrees. =p

    There are many examples of F2P being a huge success.

    Check out Yoshida's recent quotes about sustainable payment models

    Is the opinion of someone that hasn't proven a damn thing in terms of MMOs supposed to mean more than a company that has been creating MMOs for more than 15 years?

    Originally posted by killahh

    all i see are rumors about ftp, ill just wait for the soe live announcement.

     

    would be nice though to stick it to all the ftp  cheapskates out there though and offer sub, but thats my opinion.

    might not be politicaly correct, but imho, if you can afford a computer, afford internet, then you can afford to pay for a game.

     

    F2P

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member

    F2P is the reason I doubt I'll get vested in the game....unless they pull off something truely remarkable.

     

    F2P is good to try out new games. But in the long run, it "usually" costs more. So we will see.

  • IadienIadien Charleston, WVPosts: 638Member
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64

    F2P is the reason I doubt I'll get vested in the game....unless they pull off something truely remarkable.

     

    F2P is good to try out new games. But in the long run, it "usually" costs more. So we will see.

    It depends on how a person plays and how much a person "needs" cosmetic crap in the MP.

    What I do is subscribe when I can be active, and redeem 2-3 station cash Wal-Mart cards on double and triple station cash events in between new expansions. For me, it works out to spending around $60 a year ($100 if an expansion releases). Though, I won't need to purchase station cash for quite some time since I have so much saved up from the last triple SC event, and I don't purchase cosmetic items.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    They'll have a sub, er mambership, I'm sure so hopefully the majority of the content will be gained in game.

    My concern has two facets. First, that there won't be a sub option which opens the blank check avenue and two, all the UGC they seem to imply will be a big aspect of the game will have costs associated outside a sub.
  • DullahanDullahan Posts: 2,059Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Latronus
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Iceman8235
    I think F2P will work fine for EQ next.  It'll help keep the servers full longer.  Having a stable income, if I enjoy the game I'll most likely sub to it if there are time saving bonuses involved in subbing.

     

     

    F2p does not provide stable income. It provides a quick in rush and then in 2 months the income is gone. That's what the devs want not what the players want.

    SoE clearly disagrees with you. Maybe you should alert them, and tell them that their numbers are wrong and to switch back to their old business model.

    Umm the MARKET disagrees with him since almost every game that goes F2P makes more money after they go that.  Want examples?  DDO and SW:TOR just to name 2.

    According to reports and their evaluation of F2P models in the past, they can't afford NOT to use the F2P model in all future games.  Its increased the populations of all the games its been used in, and population means more potential paying customers.  The quote was something like, I wish we would have gone F2P a long time ago.


  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I have personally had the best experience with B2P games, whether they started as subscription games or not. However, that doesn't mean that EQN being F2P would affect my enjoyment of the game. It would just depend on how they setup the cash shop. I would assume it's setup like EQ2's cash shop. I have no idea how that's setup, but that's what I would assume.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • OberholzerOberholzer Hasbrouck Heights, NJPosts: 498Member
    I'd be ok with F2P if it's not too restrictive and I'd hope there is at least the option to sub if people so desired. Guess it just depends on the F2P plan they come up with.
  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by observer
    I would rather have it as buy to play, because EQ2's F2P system is awful, and i wouldn't want EQN to copy that model.  The best f2p i've seen so far is Rift's system, despite the pay to win gear in their shop.  The upsides to a F2P system though is that it will bring so many players to the game as opposed to a buy to play option.  Both have their positives and negatives.  It's best to wait to see SOE reveal it.

    Please tell me what P2W gear is in the EQ2 shop? I have about 15k SC sitting around from my subs to EQ, EQ2, PS2 etc and I have yet to see this magical epic P2W gear for sale in the EQ2 shop to grab. Give me a list of the names for it so I can start picking it up.

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Iadien
    Originally posted by Battlerock
    Originally posted by Iceman8235
    I think F2P will work fine for EQ next.  It'll help keep the servers full longer.  Having a stable income, if I enjoy the game I'll most likely sub to it if there are time saving bonuses involved in subbing.

     

     

    F2p does not provide stable income. It provides a quick in rush and then in 2 months the income is gone. That's what the devs want not what the players want.

    SoE clearly disagrees with you. Maybe you should alert them, and tell them that their numbers are wrong and to switch back to their old business model.

    Also, League of Legends (AKA money machine) disagrees. =p

    There are many examples of F2P being a huge success.

    Check out Yoshida's recent quotes about sustainable payment models

    Is the opinion of someone that hasn't proven a damn thing in terms of MMOs supposed to mean more than a company that has been creating MMOs for more than 15 years?

    Originally posted by killahh

    all i see are rumors about ftp, ill just wait for the soe live announcement.

     

    would be nice though to stick it to all the ftp  cheapskates out there though and offer sub, but thats my opinion.

    might not be politicaly correct, but imho, if you can afford a computer, afford internet, then you can afford to pay for a game.

     

    F2P

    He knows more than you and what he is saying is the truth. Perhaps if you had ever played a real mmorpg you might have a higher expectation. All these f2p crap titles must have messed up people's heads and now all they expect is crap. It's all about shaping culture I suppose.

    Battlerock besides opinions you are spewing and trying to masquerade as truth(as well as opinions of others that you are trying to say are facts) how about you put real numbers and facts out there. Actual performance and revenue numbers of games that were P2P and then their numbers when they went F2P.

     

    Until you are just looking like the blathering town fool spewing their anti-F2P lies. Your ignorance also shows when saying that someone you do not know has never played a "real mmorpg" when you obviously do not know what games we have all played.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,787Member Uncommon

    i prefer to purchase the game and play without a sub. Thats never going to happen since SOE lately is all about "F2P, your way".

    I would definitelly be happier purchasing the box but keeping it without a sub. A box price guarantees no crap in the cash shop. Fully Free guarantees a lot of crap in the cash shop to atract the weak minded shopping addicts and give too little options to non payers.

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  • quseioquseio stevens, PAPosts: 222Member
    id prefer a btp witha light fluffy cash shop since its not sub, imo youjust cant get the same quality in expansions otherwise
  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Vutar
    Originally posted by observer
    I would rather have it as buy to play, because EQ2's F2P system is awful, and i wouldn't want EQN to copy that model.  The best f2p i've seen so far is Rift's system, despite the pay to win gear in their shop.  The upsides to a F2P system though is that it will bring so many players to the game as opposed to a buy to play option.  Both have their positives and negatives.  It's best to wait to see SOE reveal it.

     

    The "upside" that you list for F2P is in reality the downside. "Bringing in many players" is code for bringing in thousands of children who otherwise would not be allowed to play.

    Why should you be more "warranted" to play a game than a 15 year old?

     

    Just curious. Unless youre just saying "I dont want to play with young people" then just say it. Sorry to tell you, but companies dont value you more than any other person who plays their game.

     

    And dont tell me someone is quoting a FFXIV developer/lead guy. A game so bad they had to literally remake it and re-release it because it was so terrible its first time around. The same people are going to play FFXIV:ARR that played version 1.0, they likely won't see growth with that title.

  • PsychoticHamsterPsychoticHamster Brooklyn, NYPosts: 97Member Common
    As long as the $14.99 sub comes with the promise, "we will not let this game languish" Im all for a monthly sub. Also, they had better not include an ingame store if they want to charge a sub, biggest slap to the face to say "yea will take a sub, but also charge you for things that should be  in the game from the get go".

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    I'm fine with it being F2P, as long as they offer a sub option that imparts significant advantage.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,763Member Uncommon
    I have no problem with  it being f2p at all...I figure I spent so much on EQ1 for 5 years tha tthey owe me a few years of free time now.
  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Darkarai79
    idk about you but id rather not waste 60-70$ on a game that might or might not suck. Reading reviews doesn't do it for me either, people will always have opinions so now that F2P has come around im glad i get to try something before hand, you wouldn't buy a box at a restaurant and trust the waiter's opinion saying its amazing deal! lol you might get some crap on a stick and your down 60$....

    Yea, except now you get 1 bite of steak to decide if you like it or not. If you like it you have to pay 20$ for each new bite of steak, which costs you more than if you just spent 60$ on it in the first place

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,787Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Latronus
     

    I'd pay a sub no problem.  I can't stand what comes with F2P (pay-to-win mechanics) and B2P (GW2) isn't much better.  I'm sure they will use the same cash shop as they do in EQ2 so no big deal for me... that is as long as it IS just like EQ2s.

    if the game is worth a sub its ok. But im curious about something here. Why isnt the GW2 model much better than a p2w free to play? You say F2P are pay to win but dont give examples of how the B2P is bad..... How is it bad? If you dont have facts as examples dont say something is bad just because your preference is a different one. You are only making your own comments less credible and your b2p claim is false. GW2 is successful with that model and they are not p2w. So its a good model mainly because everyone purchased the box in order to play, and when they decide to release expansions everyone will buy it if they want that content.

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  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member

    I dont mind thats its F2P..

     

    I end up spending less money when its F2P anyway.

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member

    I didn't mind paying $60 and $15 a month, I never have.  Even on bad games, MMO or other, even if a game wasn't good, I generally got at least $60 worth of entertainment out of it (For example, it costs $10 to go to the movies, so if I played a $60 video game for 6-8 hours, and never played it again, I still wouldn't feel "ripped off", and very few games over the years have only given me that little entertainment)

    F2P model works great because it's no risk.  Come on in and try us out.  If you like us, buy stuff, if not, no harm done.  It works like advertising on crack.

    It also tends to bring in more money from the people who are really dedicated to the game (Instead of $15 a month, they might spend $20, $30, $50, whatever).

    So F2P gets the game into the hands of a lot more people, and then the people who do spend money on it end up being a larger pool of players, and they tend to spend more.

    It's a great business model.  It can cost us hardcore players more cash, so we sometimes get sour about it.  But in the end, if you really like a game, what's a few hundred bucks every few months to support a great game you really enjoy?

    You probably spend more money on that useless cable package you got just to watch Game of Thrones lol.

    Also, as proven by SOE, they don't really do Pay 2 Win.  Planetside 2 is a great example.  You can earn everything in the game, and even the things you can buy aren't really "improvements", they're just different.  Different firing rates on guns, different skins for vehicles and armor, etc.  But they're all balanced with the starting gear.

    Buying things in the game is nice to get that unlock a little quicker, but a lvl 1 nooby is statistically almost as powerful as even the most hooked up veteran.

    I hear people complain about EQ2, but to me it doesn't sound that bad.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • SinakuSinaku Austin, TXPosts: 481Member Uncommon

    I wouldn't say SE has the best or worst F2P system so I am not too bummed about this. While I am on the fence until I get more info being F2P will mean I will definitely try it out. F2P is the market right now whether we like it or not (not really a big fan of F2P cause I'd rather pay a sub). The only problem I forsee is that there are too many chances for extremely economical harms in a cash shop for sand box based games :/

  • HokieHokie Vancouver Wa.Posts: 1,063Member Uncommon

    My biggest fear and one of the main reason I dislike F2P is that it encourages companies to start charging for everything.

    Well maybe not charging for everything. But it encourages them to limit things in game so that you have to buy it instead.

    "Want more storage space, well we (the devs) were going to give you 40 slot backpack and a 100 slot bank, but we decided to give you a 20 backpack and you can spend 2.99 per 10 slots added. And your bank tab, you can have 50 slots and then buy extra slots at 1.99 per 10. And if you want an extra bank tab its 9.99 but each 10 row is only .99 for the second and third tabs."

    "Want a riding mount, no problem. You can get one without using RL money (or currency that can only be purchased with RL money), but it only increases speed by 25%. want to got 50% faster than run speed well thats only 2.99. Want to got 100% well its only another 2.99 after you purchase the 50% boost."

     

    This is what has always worried me about F2P games. And they will do it, because they have to have a source of income. And then there is the problem of what happens when the people have bought all the convience purchaces?  They'll have to come up with more expensive ones, or start charging for every little thing.

     

     

     

     

    "I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member
    If it weren't F2P I wouldn't even try it. This way, I'll try it eventually, not at launch, but eventually, and if it's a good game, I'll spend $20 or so on it. And if it's not, well, nothing lost.
  • AnthurAnthur StolbergPosts: 686Member Uncommon

    I don't mind F2P as long as there is a subscription option too. If the game is worth it I will subscribe anyway. If it is crap even F2P won't make me stay.

    Usually I play F2P games as long as they are really free. But of course there is the moment where you have to buy from the cash shop to keep playing (or you want to do some insane grinding). Then I check how much it would cost me to keep playing which most of the time is much more than any subscription plan. So I usually stop playing then.

    Another factor is that when I spend money I always check in my mind if it is still worth the money. As I have to spend money much more often in F2P (although in smaller doses of course) I usually quit them much sooner than a subscription game. Actually I know no F2P MMO where I kept playing for more than a few weeks or max. months where I didn't either subscribe or quit the game.

    But that's just me.

  • GholosGholos GenovaPosts: 209Member
    I prefer to pay a montly subscription and have no items shop in game

    image


    "Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
    -Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.

  • VutarVutar BaghdadPosts: 773Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hMJem
    Originally posted by Vutar
    Originally posted by observer
    I would rather have it as buy to play, because EQ2's F2P system is awful, and i wouldn't want EQN to copy that model.  The best f2p i've seen so far is Rift's system, despite the pay to win gear in their shop.  The upsides to a F2P system though is that it will bring so many players to the game as opposed to a buy to play option.  Both have their positives and negatives.  It's best to wait to see SOE reveal it.

     

    The "upside" that you list for F2P is in reality the downside. "Bringing in many players" is code for bringing in thousands of children who otherwise would not be allowed to play.

    Why should you be more "warranted" to play a game than a 15 year old?

     

    Just curious. Unless youre just saying "I dont want to play with young people" then just say it. Sorry to tell you, but companies dont value you more than any other person who plays their game.

     

    And dont tell me someone is quoting a FFXIV developer/lead guy. A game so bad they had to literally remake it and re-release it because it was so terrible its first time around. The same people are going to play FFXIV:ARR that played version 1.0, they likely won't see growth with that title.

     

     

     I don't want to play with children, the immature, the trolls that populate F2P games. The reason those games have such a high population of those types is because they are free. They do not require payment. There is no investment into the game for these people so they can act however they like. If there account gets banned they simply make a new one for free and continue on.

     

    I find it comical that you use FFXIV to try and prove a point while ignoring the number of F2P failures that are too numerous to count.

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