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Would you play EQNext if it was as brutal as GoD?

WaterlilyWaterlily parisPosts: 2,973Member Uncommon
Would you stick around or bail on the game?
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  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,530Member Uncommon

    GoD wasn't that brutal, it sure was ugly and uninspiring imo.

    One of my least favorite expansion not for difficulty but for sheer ugliness.

  • WaterlilyWaterlily parisPosts: 2,973Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    GoD wasn't that brutal, it sure was ugly and uninspiring imo.

    It's the only MMO expansion I know of that wasn't beaten before the next one came out. Tunat wasn't killed on any server before OOW.

    Would people be ok if an expansion is unbeatable nowadays?

  • TygranirTygranir Colordo Springs, COPosts: 741Member
    GoD was not tuned for current max level at release, thus was released nearly unplayable. If the game is released nearly unplayable, that speaks for itself.

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  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common
    I've no idea what GoD is but i'm all for brutality.  Loved AoC.

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  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Edison, NJPosts: 457Member
    Originally posted by arieste
    I've no idea what GoD is but i'm all for brutality.  Loved AoC.

    I'm with this poster. Even down to the AoC part. So... what is GoD?

    image

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Waterlily
    Would you stick around or bail on the game?

    Depends on how repetitive it was. I'm fine with things being hard, but being repetitive will get me to play another game faster than nearly anything else.

    Though, I think it's appropriate to mention that I have no real plans to play EQN. I'm just kind of fantasy gamed out.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • IadienIadien Charleston, WVPosts: 638Member
    Originally posted by Vayman
    Originally posted by arieste
    I've no idea what GoD is but i'm all for brutality.  Loved AoC.

    I'm with this poster. Even down to the AoC part. So... what is GoD?

    EQ expansion, Gates of Discord

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,073Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by arieste
    I've no idea what GoD is but i'm all for brutality.  Loved AoC.

    It's an EQ expansion called Gates Of Discord, it's nothing to do with how brutal the game was like AOC. The expansion came after Lost Dungeons Of Norrath. It was a mess with unfinished content or unbeatable content, some would actually say it was the nail in the coffin for some top EQ guilds and normal players.

    This was the same year that WOW came out and the OOW was delayed till later in the year, basically 2 months before WOW came out.

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  • wizardanimwizardanim Apple Valley, CAPosts: 278Member
    Originally posted by Waterlily
    Originally posted by DMKano

    GoD wasn't that brutal, it sure was ugly and uninspiring imo.

    It's the only MMO expansion I know of that wasn't beaten before the next one came out. Tunat wasn't killed on any server before OOW.

    Would people be ok if an expansion is unbeatable nowadays?

    From what I remember - numerically, it was nearly impossible to beat because content was designed for the next expansion.  

    With that said, having some content that is numerically too hard may spark some unique strategy, as it did in EQ1, it could be fun.  We had a turnout of over 100 people for elemental bosses in PoPower - multiple guilds and participants.  Yes, GoD even drove elite guilds to quit - but the content in question was far out of reach from the general population (progression and gear), and no one wanted to collaborate. 

    Though, I'm not saying that I'd prefer to not allow a single group/guild to complete content of an expansion - I would prefer it if content like this was implemented (too hard), that it was an additional feature for fun, not a primary point in the games progression.

  • CamoebCamoeb Goshen, CTPosts: 53Member

    Originally posted by Waterlily

    Originally posted by DMKano

    GoD wasn't that brutal, it sure was ugly and uninspiring imo.

    It's the only MMO expansion I know of that wasn't beaten before the next one came out. Tunat wasn't killed on any server before OOW.

    Would people be ok if an expansion is unbeatable nowadays?

    Originally posted by Tygranir
    GoD was not tuned for current max level at release, thus was released nearly unplayable. If the game is released nearly unplayable, that speaks for itself.

    It's true, the devs came out and said the level cap was supposed to be 70 for GoD. The encounters were actually alot of fun the major issues with the expansion were the large number of bugs at launch along with the fact that every zone was pretty much cut & paste.

    Also if I remember correctly Overlord Mata Muram from OoW wasn't killed until after the launch of the DoN expansion.

  • sirphobossirphobos Ames, IAPosts: 614Member Common

    No, and neither would anyone else aside from a small handful of players.  Hard content is good, but content so poorly tuned that it literally is unbeatable is not.

    That being said, after OoW came out and the max level went up to 70 GoD was still hard, but doable and thus pretty fun.

    GoD and OoW probably should have been one expansion that shipped at the same time, then GoD wouldn't have been so horrible.

  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Edison, NJPosts: 457Member

    Thanks for the clarifications. I can't say I'm familiar with it, so my reply may mean little. At any rate, I wouldn't say "no" to difficult content at all. I wouldn't want the entire game to have such difficulty because variety is good. As long as risk vs. reward dynamics are observed, everything should be on the table as far as what could be implemented.

     

    One thing that "impossible" content does is bring together the community. Even a large guild might need to send out word for more people to ally with to take down Big Impossible Boss X. Everyone working together - strangers, even - tends to build camaraderie. Especially once the bad guy drops.

     

    A lot of MMOs could use some community building features, in my opinion. Bring on (some) brutality then!

    image

  • WaterlilyWaterlily parisPosts: 2,973Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wizardanim

    From what I remember - numerically, it was nearly impossible to beat because content was designed for the next expansion.  

    With that said, having some content that is numerically too hard may spark some unique strategy, as it did in EQ1, it could be fun.  We had a turnout of over 100 people for elemental bosses in PoPower - multiple guilds and participants.  Yes, GoD even drove elite guilds to quit - but the content in question was far out of reach from the general population (progression and gear), and no one wanted to collaborate. 

    Though, I'm not saying that I'd prefer to not allow a single group/guild to complete content of an expansion - I would prefer it if content like this was implemented (too hard), that it was an additional feature for fun, not a primary point in the games progression.

    I liked GoD because you had something to work upto, you knew no one could beat it easily and you slowly made progress.

    In new MMO I feel like everyone is just racing agains the clock, walsing through content as fast as possible, there's no time to reflect and invent a new strategy, it's just GO GO GO. I like progress that takes some time.

    It's not so much the content that is hard, it's more the pace that is slow because of the hard content, I don't feel rushed.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    I like high difficulty if it is done right (right from my subjective perspective).

    I would not be so excited if I was fighting for life every time I get involved in a fight.

    However, I appreciate if the game offers plenty of difficult content which you are unable to beat for a very long time, but if you are able to get to the point where this content is actually doable through years of vertical progression regardless whether it is skill based + gear based, level based + gear based, etc.

    I would love a game which is more realistic in this regard. In most current games, you start and one hour later you fight with dragons, demons, and other creatures which would require a godlike person for them to get killed.

    It would be nice if you were struggling to kill a boar or a wolf at the beginning and by slowly progressing with your character, you would be able to kill better / stronger monsters....stronger not only because they have higher stats, but also because they would probably be stronger in real world.

    I always found it weird that I am able to kill level 10 dragon at the moment when level 30 dog kills me instantly...it breaks immersion for me that I can kill a dragon, but a dog kills me. On the other hand, I find it great when the power progression in this regard is realistic and possibly very long. I like it when I know that I can hardly kill a single wolf in the party with my friend, but there are actually dragons in the game that I may one day be able to kill if I still play the game several years from now.

    I guess I got off topic pretty hard. An answer to you question would be "yes", I would play it, I like challenge.

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  • WaterlilyWaterlily parisPosts: 2,973Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vayman

     

    One thing that "impossible" content does is bring together the community. Even a large guild might need to send out word for more people to ally with to take down Big Impossible Boss X. Everyone working together - strangers, even - tends to build camaraderie. Especially once the bad guy drops.

    True, I think most EQ players made their best friends in the game during hardship, at least I did.

  • Trudge34Trudge34 Stevens Point, WIPosts: 392Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Camoeb

    Originally posted by Waterlily

    Originally posted by DMKano

    GoD wasn't that brutal, it sure was ugly and uninspiring imo.

    It's the only MMO expansion I know of that wasn't beaten before the next one came out. Tunat wasn't killed on any server before OOW.

    Would people be ok if an expansion is unbeatable nowadays?

    Originally posted by Tygranir
    GoD was not tuned for current max level at release, thus was released nearly unplayable. If the game is released nearly unplayable, that speaks for itself.

    It's true, the devs came out and said the level cap was supposed to be 70 for GoD. The encounters were actually alot of fun the major issues with the expansion were the large number of bugs at launch along with the fact that every zone was pretty much cut & paste.

    Also if I remember correctly Overlord Mata Muram from OoW wasn't killed until after the launch of the DoN expansion.

    I remember hearing that the EQ devs had thought no one would be able to kill AoW before Luclin came out too. Someone surprised them right before the next expansion I believe.

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  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,073Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Waterlily
    Originally posted by wizardanim

    From what I remember - numerically, it was nearly impossible to beat because content was designed for the next expansion.  

    With that said, having some content that is numerically too hard may spark some unique strategy, as it did in EQ1, it could be fun.  We had a turnout of over 100 people for elemental bosses in PoPower - multiple guilds and participants.  Yes, GoD even drove elite guilds to quit - but the content in question was far out of reach from the general population (progression and gear), and no one wanted to collaborate. 

    Though, I'm not saying that I'd prefer to not allow a single group/guild to complete content of an expansion - I would prefer it if content like this was implemented (too hard), that it was an additional feature for fun, not a primary point in the games progression.

    I liked GoD because you had something to work upto, you knew no one could beat it easily and you slowly made progress.

    In new MMO I feel like everyone is just racing agains the clock, walsing through content as fast as possible, there's no time to reflect and invent a new strategy, it's just GO GO GO. I like progress that takes some time.

    It's not so much the content that is hard, it's more the pace that is slow because of the hard content, I don't feel rushed.

    Yeah but you don't want that type of difficulty all the way through. In this day and age most would simply leave the game, can you imagine the GW2 players or any of these latest mmo playing EQN if it was like GOD all the way through.

     

    I think early EQ2 was pretty good for hard content, you really stayed in the cities and leveled up as much as you could before  venturing out and then you needed a group to really get a head. I also like Vanguards level of hard or easy scale, you can solo but you really have to group to get ahead and earn the big results.

    Relying on other players is great.

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  • kniltsolkniltsol Brillion, WIPosts: 10Member
    YES! if content gets beat too quickly or leveling is too fast it will just get dropped like every non aaa ftp mmo out there.
  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by arieste
    I've no idea what GoD is but i'm all for brutality.  Loved AoC.

    It's an EQ expansion called Gates Of Discord, it's nothing to do with how brutal the game was like AOC. The expansion came after Lost Dungeons Of Norrath. It was a mess with unfinished content or unbeatable content, some would actually say it was the nail in the coffin for some top EQ guilds and normal players.

    This was the same year that WOW came out and the OOW was delayed till later in the year, basically 2 months before WOW came out.

    People complain games are too easy.

    Then they make an expansion hard and people call it broken and quit the game. lol

    It's cute.

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  • RoguewizRoguewiz Lampasas, TXPosts: 614Member Uncommon

    You know, I'm not sure.  GoD wasn't that bad.  Granted, I didn't raid everything in the expansion.  I quit halfway through.

    I want a game to be difficult, scrub that, I want it to be challenging; but not Dark Souls difficult (albeit, Dark Souls is freaking awesome) and certainly not WOW easy.

    Would I jump ship if EQN was that brutal?  Probably not.  It really depends on how good/bad the character advancement is.  If I can offset the brutal aspect of the game by making "the build", then I'll stick around.

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  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by Waterlily
    Originally posted by wizardanim

    From what I remember - numerically, it was nearly impossible to beat because content was designed for the next expansion.  

    With that said, having some content that is numerically too hard may spark some unique strategy, as it did in EQ1, it could be fun.  We had a turnout of over 100 people for elemental bosses in PoPower - multiple guilds and participants.  Yes, GoD even drove elite guilds to quit - but the content in question was far out of reach from the general population (progression and gear), and no one wanted to collaborate. 

    Though, I'm not saying that I'd prefer to not allow a single group/guild to complete content of an expansion - I would prefer it if content like this was implemented (too hard), that it was an additional feature for fun, not a primary point in the games progression.

    I liked GoD because you had something to work upto, you knew no one could beat it easily and you slowly made progress.

    In new MMO I feel like everyone is just racing agains the clock, walsing through content as fast as possible, there's no time to reflect and invent a new strategy, it's just GO GO GO. I like progress that takes some time.

    It's not so much the content that is hard, it's more the pace that is slow because of the hard content, I don't feel rushed.

    Yeah but you don't want that type of difficulty all the way through. In this day and age most would simply leave the game, can you imagine the GW2 players or any of these latest mmo playing EQN if it was like GOD all the way through.

    Most people couldn't even beat the 5 man exploration mode dungeons in GW2 and many that did slogged through it zerging with multiple deaths lol.  Even on the first lvl 30 dungeon lolol.

    I hope EQN is like that, personally. :)

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  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    wiki has a good overview in the "controversy" writeup

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_Gates_of_Discord

    Matters came to a head when Woody Hearn, a notable gamer and cartoonist of GU Comics website called for the boycott of the next planned expansion Omens of War.[2]

    When released, some of the content was nearly unplayable for most of the player base. Numerous bugs were discovered in the game with the release of the expansion, which also updated the graphics and geometry engine. Old content seemingly unrelated to the new expansion "broke", requiring the immediate attention of the new developers or online guides and GMs. One explanation offered is that during expansion developments there was a "changing of the guard" in the staff at SOE, leading or contributing to these issues. It was also revealed that a management mistake had been made in which some of the content was meant for the next tier cap of player levels - level 70. A SOE game developer confirmed that SOE designed Gates of Discord with level 70 in mind, but SOE did not include the planned tier cap increase from 65.[1] This management mistake ensured that several critical points of the expansion were unbeatable by most players at that time, both for single groups and raids. Whatever the cause, these issues were eventually addressed, but too late to prevent controversy.

    Several "uberguilds" (highly powerful and influential groups of players), including Fires of Heaven, Afterlife, Ascent, and Keepers of the Faith, departed from EverQuest around this time. Many of these players acted as beta testers for World of Warcraft, which was in development for release later in the year, although by spring of 2005 some returned. This possibly had something to do with EQ becoming a game with fairer competition due to instanced raids.

    In response to player criticism, SOE organized a summit in the summer of 2004 to hear the main concerns of the playerbase towards Gates of Discord and EverQuest in general.[1] The summit's guests included influential players and gamers from guild leaderships and fan websites, notably among them Woody Hearn (of GU Comics). SOE also delayed the release the next expansion Omens of War by several months to give time for the GoD quality issues to be addressed.[3]

     

     

    http://www.gucomics.com/20040607

     

  • AntariousAntarious Greenville, SCPosts: 2,802Member

    I don't really care how harsh a game is... If through learning the systems of the game etc things make sense.   Which means you can smart.. you can win.   Or if you are game smart you do have a chance to recover from a bad (not suicidal) encounter.

     

    Most MMO's just seem to go to some system which makes zero sense and then declare it "difficult" or a challenge.   God mode on a NPC (as an example) isn't a challenge in my opinion.   Games used to be a lot more interesting at least my memory tells me they were.

     

    Basicly what I mean is.. I don't mind figuring stuff out at all.   I don't mind if I die while in that process.   Dying simply because that's the script no matter what I do.. is not going to interest me.   I played Ultima Online up until EQ came out and then went back and forth (all but one friend moved to EQ) so I don't exactly find current games harsh in comparison to what UO was like in 97/98.

    Moderator's on this site allow certain posters to create endless troll threads. Yet "warn" people for giving recommendations... account *pending* deletion because.. why bother.

  • kniltsolkniltsol Brillion, WIPosts: 10Member

    "It's cute"

    LOVE IT!

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    I agree. They just dont make hardcore games like they used to. LOK made UO look like a baby's toy. Ahhh the good ol days.

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