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What Role Play Means

craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 848Member Uncommon

In MMORPG we have two terms  "Role" and "Role Play" that people seem to confuse.

"Role" refers to a task performed in a group: Tank, Healer, DPS, Utility, Crowd Control etc.

Please do not confuse this with "Role Play" which is about acting out a personal story in conjunction with others: as in my Female Ranger flirts with your Male Troubador, we both go and have a few drinks together in a bar.  We meet a dwarf and get involved in a discussion about the evil orcs etc.

The RP in MMORPG is "Role Play" it has nothing to do with TANKS, HEALERS and DPS. It is a term about social activity not combat.

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Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,676Member Uncommon

    Do many people make that mistake? It seems the division is between whether it means roleplaying a character in the game world or the associated progression system.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon

    i don't know anyone who has ever thought that it had to do with tank heals or dps.

     

    except quite a few developers. 

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 848Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Do many people make that mistake? It seems the division is between whether it means roleplaying a character in the game world or the associated progression system.

    Well I do not see how it has anything to do with progression.

    YES people make that mistake, I see it at least twice a day on these forums.

    No there is no question, MMORPG and "Role Play" emerged as terms before the "Holy Trinity" and roles like TANK and HEALER came into existence in the way they are used today.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Do many people make that mistake? It seems the division is between whether it means roleplaying a character in the game world or the associated progression system.

    Well I do not see how it has anything to do with progression.

    YES people make that mistake, I see it at least twice a day on these forums.

    No there is no question, MMORPG and "Role Play" emerged as terms before the "Holy Trinity" and roles like TANK and HEALER came into existence in the way they are used today.

    I don't know about twice a day but it is quite often and It's my personal  mission to correct them each time...I have no idea why lol.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    I've never heard anyone say the role in role play meant tank,healer ect but I'd argue it has to be someone acting out a characters personality.

    There are role players who create whole persona's for their character but most people who play off of RP servers play the role of the character in the story without ever actually giving that character any personality what-so-ever. Much like what you see in a single player rpg.

  • KarbleKarble San Diego, CAPosts: 741Member

    This is a tricky subject. Not quite as cut and dry as you make it seem.

    In a game you have classes/archtypes/professions/jobs etc.

    If you from character creation decide you want to play as a halfling druid, then you are, in a way role playing from the very beginning.

    From there it's what you do and how you identify your avatar within the gaming world that takes you deeper into the role play or pulls you further away.

    If you mainly just /ooc  heals/cc lfg   then you are taking your avatar away from the role play and more into just filling a role and a spot.

    However, if you build a house and adopt 2 lower level druids under your wing and marry an Erudite and build a home in the game world. Form a band of adventuring friends and go out into the dangerous hillsides to find this dragon den you heard about at the local pub....that is digging deeply into the Role Play side and not so much the holy trinity side.

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member

    I have to agree with the OP, I've seen a few people just recently that seemed to insinuate that RPG equated to having specific roles in the combat mechanic system.  I believe they were trash talking GW2 because the design of the combat mechanics and character development gave every class freedom in their role and didn't require tanks or healers to be successful.

    This is not what the RPG in MMORPG stands for.  Or in single player RPGs either.

    Though hopefully not too many people on these forums are making that mistake.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 848Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Karble

    This is a tricky subject. Not quite as cut and dry as you make it seem.

    In a game you have classes/archtypes/professions/jobs etc.

    If you from character creation decide you want to play as a halfling druid, then you are, in a way role playing from the very beginning.

    From there it's what you do and how you identify your avatar within the gaming world that takes you deeper into the role play or pulls you further away.

    If you mainly just /ooc  heals/cc lfg   then you are taking your avatar away from the role play and more into just filling a role and a spot.

    However, if you build a house and adopt 2 lower level druids under your wing and marry an Erudite and build a home in the game world. Form a band of adventuring friends and go out into the dangerous hillsides to find this dragon den you heard about at the local pub....that is digging deeply into the Role Play side and not so much the holy trinity side.

    Two totally separate meanings the bit highlighted in blue is about your "Role" in a group/raid the rest is about "Role Play" as in mmoRPg.

    Not saying that group roles (holy trinity:TANK,HEALER, DPS) are good or bad.  I am saying they are not "Role Play" as in mmoRPg. What defines the genre is the ability to "Role Play" the "Holy Trinity" does not define the genre, you can have a combat system that eliminates one or more of the "Group Roles" without effecting whether or not it is a "Role Playing Game".

  • EyrothathEyrothath Phoenix, AZPosts: 198Member

    To put it simply, role-playing is playing the role of your character. Role-playing is a form of gaming that is not entirely dependent on game mechanics and game rules. Role-playing spans from sci-fi to fantasy games, and is popular in many online worlds. Some people even take role-playing to real life, taking part in LARPs, or Live Action Role-Play games. Role-playing can be a fulfilling and enjoyable hobby for the casual gamer, considering that, to role-play, you do not need to spend hours completing quests or amassing wealth to be competitive. In a role-play environment, a players reputation depends on their role-play ability and the personality of their character, which is completely independent of any game mechanics or other governing variables.

    The Oxford English Dictionary defines role-play as deliberately assuming or acting out a particular role.

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member

    Originally posted by craftseeker

    Originally posted by Karble

    This is a tricky subject. Not quite as cut and dry as you make it seem.

    In a game you have classes/archtypes/professions/jobs etc.

    If you from character creation decide you want to play as a halfling druid, then you are, in a way role playing from the very beginning.

    From there it's what you do and how you identify your avatar within the gaming world that takes you deeper into the role play or pulls you further away.

    If you mainly just /ooc  heals/cc lfg   then you are taking your avatar away from the role play and more into just filling a role and a spot.

    However, if you build a house and adopt 2 lower level druids under your wing and marry an Erudite and build a home in the game world. Form a band of adventuring friends and go out into the dangerous hillsides to find this dragon den you heard about at the local pub....that is digging deeply into the Role Play side and not so much the holy trinity side.

    Two totally separate meanings the bit highlighted in blue is about your "Role" in a group/raid the rest is about "Role Play" as in mmoRPg.

    Not saying that group roles (holy trinity:TANK,HEALER, DPS) are good or bad.  I am saying they are not "Role Play" as in mmoRPg. What defines the genre is the ability to "Role Play" the "Holy Trinity" does not define the genre, you can have a combat system that eliminates one or more of the "Group Roles" without effecting whether or not it is a "Role Playing Game".

    Originally posted by Eyrothath

    To put it simply, role-playing is playing the role of your character. Role-playing is a form of gaming that is not entirely dependent on game mechanics and game rules. Role-playing spans from sci-fi to fantasy games, and is popular in many online worlds. Some people even take role-playing to real life, taking part in LARPs, or Live Action Role-Play games. Role-playing can be a fulfilling and enjoyable hobby for the casual gamer, considering that, to role-play, you do not need to spend hours completing quests or amassing wealth to be competitive. In a role-play environment, a players reputation depends on their role-play ability and the personality of their character, which is completely independent of any game mechanics or other governing variables.

    The Oxford English Dictionary defines role-play as deliberately assuming or acting out a particular role.

    Exactly. 

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • KarbleKarble San Diego, CAPosts: 741Member
    Originally posted by craftseeker
    Originally posted by Karble

    This is a tricky subject. Not quite as cut and dry as you make it seem.

    In a game you have classes/archtypes/professions/jobs etc.

    If you from character creation decide you want to play as a halfling druid, then you are, in a way role playing from the very beginning.

    From there it's what you do and how you identify your avatar within the gaming world that takes you deeper into the role play or pulls you further away.

    If you mainly just /ooc  heals/cc lfg   then you are taking your avatar away from the role play and more into just filling a role and a spot.

    However, if you build a house and adopt 2 lower level druids under your wing and marry an Erudite and build a home in the game world. Form a band of adventuring friends and go out into the dangerous hillsides to find this dragon den you heard about at the local pub....that is digging deeply into the Role Play side and not so much the holy trinity side.

    Two totally separate meanings the bit highlighted in blue is about your "Role" in a group/raid the rest is about "Role Play" as in mmoRPg.

    Not saying that group roles (holy trinity:TANK,HEALER, DPS) are good or bad.  I am saying they are not "Role Play" as in mmoRPg. What defines the genre is the ability to "Role Play" the "Holy Trinity" does not define the genre, you can have a combat system that eliminates one or more of the "Group Roles" without effecting whether or not it is a "Role Playing Game".

    I am happy we agree on the subject in general, which is what the area in green shows. However I have marked for you a few areas where some explanation is needed.

    The areas in red 

     mmorpg  simply refers to massively multiplayer online role-playing game.

    Combat system  you actually don't even need a combat system at all to be called an mmorpg.

    Hope this helps further clarify things for everyone. :)

     

  • AkerbeltzAkerbeltz Vitoria-GasteizPosts: 161Member Uncommon

    "A role-playing game is a game in which the participants assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create stories. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterisation, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines. Within the rules, they may improvise freely; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the games."

     

    Ergo, RPG are not linear spoon-fed arcades, neither lobby games, neither Pavlov's dog exercises (say hello to WoW/STO/WAR/SWTOR/Rift/GW2... and the rest of the themeparkish crap published in the last 8 years).

    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by craftseeker

    In MMORPG we have two terms  "Role" and "Role Play" that people seem to confuse.

    "Role" refers to a task performed in a group: Tank, Healer, DPS, Utility, Crowd Control etc.

    Please do not confuse this with "Role Play" which is about acting out a personal story in conjunction with others: as in my Female Ranger flirts with your Male Troubador, we both go and have a few drinks together in a bar.  We meet a dwarf and get involved in a discussion about the evil orcs etc.

    The RP in MMORPG is "Role Play" it has nothing to do with TANKS, HEALERS and DPS. It is a term about social activity not combat.

    Hmm, I'm not sure that too many people that play EQ need these two items defined.  Its a pretty savvy community that has lived with this knowledge of definition for many years.  Granted, every other blue moon I see someone asking what a RP server is for, so there are exceptions.

    image
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,619Member Uncommon

    Lol. Why is it always the "go to the bar, meet a dwarf and talk about Orcs" example or something similar? That is the most boring type of RP imaginable to me...right up there with silly slow walking.

    The real fun of RP is to play the game, using all the game mechanics, following a story line and doing so while "in character." That's RP that enhances the game experience. The hang-out at the bar and invent story lines bit is imaginative and all but it also ignores the game.

    it really is OK to be an achiever, explorer and/or killer and RP while you do so you know... kids these days! image

     

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Lol. Why is it always the "go to the bar, meet a dwarf and talk about Orcs" example or something similar? That is the most boring type of RP imaginable to me...right up there with silly slow walking.

    The real fun of RP is to play the game, using all the game mechanics, following a story line and doing so while "in character." That's RP that enhances the game experience. The hang-out at the bar and invent story lines bit is imaginative and all but it also ignores the game.

    it really is OK to be an achiever, explorer and/or killer and RP while you do so you know... kids these days! image

     

    When I'm in character, I stay far away from the places (taverns) like you mentioned.  There are people who like to do that, and good on them.  I'm just one of those people who likes to roam the world, stumble across someone or a small group, and get in character for a bit then head off back to the wilderness (or dungeon depths).  The great thing is that people have fun doing it, and it helps to build community and immersion.

    image
  • SenadinaSenadina San Diego, CAPosts: 896Member Uncommon
    Single-player RPGs existed before MMORPGs. There was no one else to "roleplay" with. In the world of video games, RPG refers to the type of gaming mechanics one can expect in the game...i.e : levels, loot, inventory management. It is solely a term to distinguish it from FPS, RTS, platformers etc....when referring to video games at least.

    image
  • mos0811mos0811 Sacramento, CAPosts: 173Member
    Originally posted by Senadina
    Single-player RPGs existed before MMORPGs. There was no one else to "roleplay" with. In the world of video games, RPG refers to the type of gaming mechanics one can expect in the game...i.e : levels, loot, inventory management. It is solely a term to distinguish it from FPS, RTS, platformers etc....when referring to video games at least.

    Tabletop games like D&D existed before single player console/PC RPGs; which is really where the RP in RPG comes from.  Roleplaying games started as table top, and game companies started to make single player RPGs because the technology wasn't developed yet for the group settings like today.

    RPG refers to role playing in a group around a table - at least that's the historical roots.  MMORPG then in as extension of the earlier tabletop games; the RP in MMORPG is a role playing game done with a lot of people in a digital setting.  The type of roles a person plays (tank/healer etc.) has nothing to do with single player or multi player RPGs.

  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Edison, NJPosts: 457Member
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Lol. Why is it always the "go to the bar, meet a dwarf and talk about Orcs" example or something similar? That is the most boring type of RP imaginable to me...right up there with silly slow walking.

    The real fun of RP is to play the game, using all the game mechanics, following a story line and doing so while "in character." That's RP that enhances the game experience. The hang-out at the bar and invent story lines bit is imaginative and all but it also ignores the game.

    it really is OK to be an achiever, explorer and/or killer and RP while you do so you know... kids these days! image

     

    Agreed. Well said. When I first go into online roleplaying games, I thought it would be as you said: Going out and enjoying the game and it's world while being in character. As an old school pen and paper gamer, I was excited about that idea.

     

    But then I realized that RP in an MMO is just everyone slow walking around, acting polite and bland, sipping imaginary drinks, flipping coins to the NPC barkeep of the most convenient and populated area pub, and sometimes having having a "fight" that doesn't use the actual dueling/fighting system of the game. (I don't even...)

     

    Worse, I sometimes see RP-ers following some pre-written script. Worse still, I've seen other (usually newbie) RPers trying to get involved in said script and being completely ignored or belittled.

     

    I've long ago taken down my "roleplay" flag indicator in MMOs and have stopped roleplaying.

    image

  • jdnycjdnyc Long Island City, NYPosts: 1,696Member
    Hopefully World of Darkness will give what you seek.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,676Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mos0811
    Originally posted by Senadina
    Single-player RPGs existed before MMORPGs. There was no one else to "roleplay" with. In the world of video games, RPG refers to the type of gaming mechanics one can expect in the game...i.e : levels, loot, inventory management. It is solely a term to distinguish it from FPS, RTS, platformers etc....when referring to video games at least.

    Tabletop games like D&D existed before single player console/PC RPGs; which is really where the RP in RPG comes from.   

    Correct, however in the transition to CRPG, two key elements changed. The DM was replaced by the computer and control of the story shifted away from the player. This was primarily due to limitations of software, memory, AI, etc. As a result, when introduced to the computer environment, the player roleplay aspect was less of a defining factor, as it was often absent. As such FF, Faxanadu, Zelda, etc are considered RPGs. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common

    It means playing "in character", meaning giving your character a name appropriate to the game environment, talking "in character", etc....

    That's all it ever meant.

  • AkerbeltzAkerbeltz Vitoria-GasteizPosts: 161Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Lol. Why is it always the "go to the bar, meet a dwarf and talk about Orcs" example or something similar? That is the most boring type of RP imaginable to me...right up there with silly slow walking.

    The real fun of RP is to play the game, using all the game mechanics, following a story line and doing so while "in character." That's RP that enhances the game experience. The hang-out at the bar and invent story lines bit is imaginative and all but it also ignores the game.

    it really is OK to be an achiever, explorer and/or killer and RP while you do so you know... kids these days! image

     

     

    I see you refer to the kind of fake roleplay that takes place in themepark game. I say this because that's not really RPG, it's people performing a dramatization, like a theater play. This happens because themepark doesn't support RPG due to its constrained and linear nature: it's just a linear arcade with some gross RPG features (leveling...) to give a sensation of character development, and a bunch of skinner's box minigames at the end  of the personal story. Talking about personal story, once it's implemented kills any possibility for RPG, as the one making choices about the character is the game instead of the player himself/herself.

     

    In games like EVE or UO RPG is fully integrated with the game's mechanics, there is no necessity for "theatre play". In these games a player can be a trader and decide to recruit some mercenaries (who are played by actual players) to protect him/her from bandits (who may be actual players or npcs). This RPG is for real as is embedded in the actual game and there are real consequences fro the players' actions as well as value in their tasks.

     

    Now you might understand why sandbox OWPvP is the only viable model for RPG. And why i've become interested in EQN...

    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by Akerbeltz
    Originally posted by Iselin

    Lol. Why is it always the "go to the bar, meet a dwarf and talk about Orcs" example or something similar? That is the most boring type of RP imaginable to me...right up there with silly slow walking.

    The real fun of RP is to play the game, using all the game mechanics, following a story line and doing so while "in character." That's RP that enhances the game experience. The hang-out at the bar and invent story lines bit is imaginative and all but it also ignores the game.

    it really is OK to be an achiever, explorer and/or killer and RP while you do so you know... kids these days! image

     

     

    I see you refer to the kind of fake roleplay that takes place in themepark game. I say this because that's not really RPG, it's people performing a dramatization, like a theater play. This happens because themepark doesn't support RPG due to its constrained and linear nature: it's just a linear arcade with some gross RPG features (leveling...) to give a sensation of character development, and a bunch of skinner's box minigames at the end  of the personal story. Talking about personal story, once it's implemented kills any possibility for RPG, as the one making choices about the character is the game instead of the player himself/herself.

     

    In games like EVE or UO RPG is fully integrated with the game's mechanics, there is no necessity for "theatre play". In these games a player can be a trader and decide to recruit some mercenaries (who are played by actual players) to protect him/her from bandits (who may be actual players or npcs). This RPG is for real as is embedded in the actual game and there are real consequences fro the players' actions as well as value in their tasks.

     

    Now you might understand why sandbox OWPvP is the only viable model for RPG. And why i've become interested in EQN...

    Sandbox games don't need pvp to be "viable".  I love pvp, but lets not fool ourselves in thinking that EQN is going to be some FFA pvp gang warfare extravaganza.  I hope it is lol, but until we see something, assume it's going to follow suite of the EQ franchise by being largely a PVE experience.

    Also, by your definition of sandbox, you'd have to call Vanguard's FFA pvp server a sandbox lol.  The game played exactly how you described, yet no one would call Vanguard a sandbox.  No one I know, anyway.

     

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,869Member Uncommon

    In my view, we are all role playing. The second you pretend to be a pixel animation or have abilities a pixel animation has, you are role playing. I can't shoot fire balls out of my ass, I don't own a Super Carrier, I die if you shoot me. I take on a false role when I log in.

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by free2play

    In my view, we are all role playing. The second you pretend to be a pixel animation or have abilities a pixel animation has, you are role playing. I can't shoot fire balls out of my ass, I don't own a Super Carrier, I die if you shoot me. I take on a false role when I log in.

    Exactly.  People confuse more game play freedom with "role playing".  Just because a person is doing a personal story quest in some linear themepark game, doesn't make it any more or less of a "Role playing" game than anything else.

    I agree that more freedom is better.  I prefer open worlds and freedom to play how I want.  But what role playing specifically means, themeparks are also role playing games.  Even if they force certain mechanics on to you.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

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