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From 2010 Fan Faire announcement - EQN is "designed from ground up with pvp in mind."

BidwoodBidwood Toronto, ONPosts: 554Member

http://eq2wire.com/2010/08/06/live-blog-eq-next/#more-5112

 

I know a lot has changed and they scrapped a couple of iterations of the game since then, but I think this is significant. The strongest counter-arguments against PVP as a pillar for the game have been that EQ was never about PVP and SOE wouldn't risk losing legacy players. But based on the link above it looks like they weren't weren't too concerned about that 3 years ago.

 

This comes back to all the hints SOE has been giving us about how this game is not a direct sequel like EQ2 but a parallel universe - something new and different. And they're going to continue to support all three games...

 

Several people here have pointed out that the kind of sandbox Smedley described needs PVP to work, but we didn't have much to support it other than ambiguous statements from him on twitter. I think this info from the very conception of EQN is important and we should all keep it in mind in order to not be too disappointed if it ends up being the case on Aug. 2.

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Comments

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    http://eq2wire.com/2010/08/06/live-blog-eq-next/#more-5112

     

    I know a lot has changed and they scrapped a couple of iterations of the game since then, but I think this is significant. The strongest counter-arguments against PVP as a pillar for the game have been that EQ was never about PVP and SOE wouldn't risk losing legacy players. But based on the link above it looks like they weren't weren't too concerned about that 3 years ago.

     

    This comes back to all the hints SOE has been giving us about how this game is not a direct sequel like EQ2 but a parallel universe - something new and different. And they're going to continue to support all three games...

     

    Several people here have pointed out that the kind of sandbox Smedley described needs PVP to work, but we didn't have much to support it other than ambiguous statements from him on twitter. I think this info from the very conception of EQN is important and we should all keep it in mind in order to not be too disappointed if it ends up being the case on Aug. 2.

    I personally enjoy PVP, but many people, I'd wager the majority of MMORPG players, don't.  If they were building a PVP heavy game, it probably wouldn't generate the amount of players and attention they're hoping to get (especially considering the amount of money and time spent on this flagship product).

    You can make a sandbox experience work without PVP.  You can make it work with it.  You can have both (different server rule sets).

    I hope EQN does support PVP in a major way, but if it's by and large a PVE game, I'll still be playing it non-stop.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • Jadedangel1Jadedangel1 Newark, NJPosts: 184Member

    I'm not saying PvP won't be heavily involved as we just don't know enough about the game yet for me to speculate, but you can't base your assumption off three year old information. So much has changed since then in the gaming world, not least of which the rise of F2P and ever increasing caual players. Both things have a substantial effect on how PvP is handled in games and the ability of the company to profit from it. 

     

  • IadienIadien Charleston, WVPosts: 638Member
    SoE will not force PVP on everyone. They would be foolish to do so.
  • BidwoodBidwood Toronto, ONPosts: 554Member
    Originally posted by Gallus85
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    http://eq2wire.com/2010/08/06/live-blog-eq-next/#more-5112

     

    I know a lot has changed and they scrapped a couple of iterations of the game since then, but I think this is significant. The strongest counter-arguments against PVP as a pillar for the game have been that EQ was never about PVP and SOE wouldn't risk losing legacy players. But based on the link above it looks like they weren't weren't too concerned about that 3 years ago.

     

    This comes back to all the hints SOE has been giving us about how this game is not a direct sequel like EQ2 but a parallel universe - something new and different. And they're going to continue to support all three games...

     

    Several people here have pointed out that the kind of sandbox Smedley described needs PVP to work, but we didn't have much to support it other than ambiguous statements from him on twitter. I think this info from the very conception of EQN is important and we should all keep it in mind in order to not be too disappointed if it ends up being the case on Aug. 2.

    I personally enjoy PVP, but many people, I'd wager the majority of MMORPG players, don't.  If they were building a PVP heavy game, it probably wouldn't generate the amount of players and attention they're hoping to get (especially considering the amount of money and time spent on this flagship product).

    You can make a sandbox experience work without PVP.  You can make it work with it.  You can have both (different server rule sets).

    I hope EQN does support PVP in a major way, but if it's by and large a PVE game, I'll still be playing it non-stop.

    I also hope for awesome PVP AND PVE.

     

    While I'm sure there's a way to make a PVE sandbox work, I can't see it working with the sandbox Smedley has been hyping - with the ability to destroy large portions of the world - almost all of it.

  • Gallus85Gallus85 Winter Park, FLPosts: 1,092Member
    Originally posted by Bidwood
    Originally posted by Gallus85
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    http://eq2wire.com/2010/08/06/live-blog-eq-next/#more-5112

     

    I know a lot has changed and they scrapped a couple of iterations of the game since then, but I think this is significant. The strongest counter-arguments against PVP as a pillar for the game have been that EQ was never about PVP and SOE wouldn't risk losing legacy players. But based on the link above it looks like they weren't weren't too concerned about that 3 years ago.

     

    This comes back to all the hints SOE has been giving us about how this game is not a direct sequel like EQ2 but a parallel universe - something new and different. And they're going to continue to support all three games...

     

    Several people here have pointed out that the kind of sandbox Smedley described needs PVP to work, but we didn't have much to support it other than ambiguous statements from him on twitter. I think this info from the very conception of EQN is important and we should all keep it in mind in order to not be too disappointed if it ends up being the case on Aug. 2.

    I personally enjoy PVP, but many people, I'd wager the majority of MMORPG players, don't.  If they were building a PVP heavy game, it probably wouldn't generate the amount of players and attention they're hoping to get (especially considering the amount of money and time spent on this flagship product).

    You can make a sandbox experience work without PVP.  You can make it work with it.  You can have both (different server rule sets).

    I hope EQN does support PVP in a major way, but if it's by and large a PVE game, I'll still be playing it non-stop.

    I also hope for awesome PVP AND PVE.

     

    While I'm sure there's a way to make a PVE sandbox work, I can't see it working with the sandbox Smedley has been hyping - with the ability to destroy large portions of the world - almost all of it.

    You never know.

    I agree though, I'm hoping for both.  In my opinion, PVP is more rewarding in a game that has meaningful and fun PVE to go with it and build your character with.

    Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    Of course they should design it with PvP in mind from the ground up, Smed said he would make sure of it when responding to a question about it not seeming "tacked on". I'm not sure why else you are adding into that.

    As with almost every thread made about this no one is saying PvP isn't important or shouldn't be in game at all. Most are arguing that it won't be forced on everyone.

    OP could you elaborate a little farther as to what you think a EQN with PvP done right means?
  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member

    Most of the arguments spew from the vocal PvPers constantly clamoring that EQN will be all bout PvP with non-consensual open world PvP which naturally gonna stir the pot for yet another pissing contest on these forums.

    Most like to have the PvP option but what they don't want is non-consensual open world PvP which is the prime ingredients for a griefing gankfest MMO. 

    But I just don't see any company with any sort of intelligence going for a open-world non-consensual PvP model as you are drastically limiting your audience as polls have shown here if they are worth any evidence.  If your making a niche game sure I think that will suite the company just fine but I really doubt SOE will fund EQN for only a niche audiance, they are in for the money not the ideal game for a certain crowd.

    But really all that could mean is that they will be making the game with PvP having depth along with PvE.  Too much do MMOs just tack on PvP as an afterthought that really doesn't have any depth.  Queue for BGs or Arenas is not a PvP system with any depth.

    EQN will be the next iteration of the EQ series not just a parallel universe.  The MMO genre has evolved so much so naturally a replica of the old EQ games is outdated and obsolete so there will be some major differences and feel from the past titles.

  • KuanshuKuanshu Des Moines, IAPosts: 272Member

    Yes many threads on consensual vs non-consensual PvP. I prefer to contemplate what would be consensual vs non-consensual and this involve many broad interpretations.

    If I was a betting man I would bet its going to have PvP in some way that doesn't degenerate the population as many PvP servers and MMOs have succumbed to this unfortunately. EvE Online has been referred to alot and I figure its going to be along the same lines yet in more of an EQesque environment, yet sandboxy....uh ya thats it, LOL

    Less then a month to go for the big reveal...and if they are hoping to release this year its gotta be big!

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    Well, it could mean that they made it with PvP in mind, so that they could balance pve and pvp, no matter the server rule set, if they did traditional server types for SoE.

     

    It could also mean anything else, or nothing now, but I would at least say they are planning for a pvp server or area(s), with balancing pve/pvp, so that you do not ruin one or the other when you do fixes/tweaks.

     

  • AticusWellesAticusWelles Beverly hills, CAPosts: 152Member
    I'm curious if there has been a single AAA MMO that didnt include PVP in the last several years?

    PVP will indeed be an important part of EQN (IMO), just like most new MMOs, but I seriously doubt SOE won't give people who don't want it an out.

    My guess is PVP server(s) and "Normal" server(s) with flagged PVP.
  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,853Member Uncommon
    I'm hoping for a PvP system that doesn't force it on you, but is so fun you want to do it anyway. If they can do that then you'll lessen that % tht don't gr involved and make PvP better for everyone since you need players for PvP :)
  • BidwoodBidwood Toronto, ONPosts: 554Member
    Originally posted by AticusWelles
    I'm curious if there has been a single AAA MMO that didnt include PVP in the last several years?

    PVP will indeed be an important part of EQN (IMO), just like most new MMOs, but I seriously doubt SOE won't give people who don't want it an out.

    My guess is PVP server(s) and "Normal" server(s) with flagged PVP.

    Maybe. I'm really curious to see what they meant by "built from the ground up with PVP in mind". Seems like that could go either way.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Bidwood

     

    This is not trolling or spam. This is new information that no one has presented before to the best of my knowledge.

     

     

    According to your thread title the information is three years old.  you could have easily put it in one of your other threads.  

  • AticusWellesAticusWelles Beverly hills, CAPosts: 152Member
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    Originally posted by AticusWelles
    I'm curious if there has been a single AAA MMO that didnt include PVP in the last several years?

    PVP will indeed be an important part of EQN (IMO), just like most new MMOs, but I seriously doubt SOE won't give people who don't want it an out.

    My guess is PVP server(s) and "Normal" server(s) with flagged PVP.

    Maybe. I'm really curious to see what they meant by "built from the ground up with PVP in mind". Seems like that could go either way.

     

    IMO it means that PVP is a cornerstone of the game, a pillar if you will. But that doesnt mean they are going to force PVEers to pvp. Encourage them to PVP is a different story though. I won't be surprised if there will be lots of encouragement to PVP.

    Remember WAR was built from the ground up as a PVP/RVR game, and even it had PVP servers and consentual PVP servers with RVR lakes.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,269Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iadien
    SoE will not force PVP on everyone. They would be foolish to do so.

    You can run, not fight, or even not buy the game. Better yet, play as to not put yourself in a pvp situation. You are never "forced to pvp." You choose to pvp.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Bidwood

    Maybe. I'm really curious to see what they meant by "built from the ground up with PVP in mind". Seems like that could go either way.

    Here is what the logical, common sense mind would say about this:

    This was in response to a question about if the PvP would be just tacked on (like EQ2).

    Smedley is just saying they know from day 1 the game will support PvP of some form.  Which we all know anyway.  It doesn't tell us if PvP will play a big role, a small role, have its own servers, anything like that.  It just tells us the game won't be PvE only.

  • BidwoodBidwood Toronto, ONPosts: 554Member
    Originally posted by AticusWelles
    Originally posted by Bidwood
    Originally posted by AticusWelles
    I'm curious if there has been a single AAA MMO that didnt include PVP in the last several years?

    PVP will indeed be an important part of EQN (IMO), just like most new MMOs, but I seriously doubt SOE won't give people who don't want it an out.

    My guess is PVP server(s) and "Normal" server(s) with flagged PVP.

    Maybe. I'm really curious to see what they meant by "built from the ground up with PVP in mind". Seems like that could go either way.

     

    IMO it means that PVP is a cornerstone of the game, a pillar if you will. But that doesnt mean they are going to force PVEers to pvp. Encourage them to PVP is a different story though. I won't be surprised if there will be lots of encouragement to PVP. Remember WAR was built from the ground up as a PVP/RVR game, and even it had PVP servers and consentual PVP servers with RVR lakes.

    I'm glad to hear you think it means PVP is a pillar. Georgeson talked about how they put a lot of thought into the pillars that would lead to the holy grail MMO.

     

    This could also go into the comment Smedley made about factions being important. It would probably be a lot more pallatable for many people if they had "strength in numbers" in a faction and weren't sitting ducks for anyone who wants to attack.

     

    As far as encouraging to PVP...  I'm hoping PVP is turned on in the areas where people can build and destroy stuff.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Iadien
    SoE will not force PVP on everyone. They would be foolish to do so.

    You can run, not fight, or even not buy the game. Better yet, play as to not put yourself in a pvp situation. You are never "forced to pvp." You choose to pvp.

    Indeed.

    I would just add that It should also have some consequences for the person that decides to attack someone who is minding their own business.

    I think that the system where player can attack anyone, but would be forced to face consequences is the best.

    In L2 for instance, when you killed someone for no reason, you became player killer, your name turned red and anyone could kill you without becoming a PK themselves. Also you had increased chance of dropping items upon death. A system like this is so simple, yet effective. You think twice before you decide to attack someone. Also it does not create a feeling of some artificial restrictions like when you simply cannot attack people running around you which is total nonsense, imo.

    In reality you can attack anyone as well. You would just have to face the consequences. I prefer relatively large amount of realism in my games and it definitely includes this issue.

    People who argue against non-consensual PvP usually imagine a system in which you can grief / gank them as much as you like laughing like crazy while doing so. There can be non-consensual PvP without this implication. It is enough to implement the right regulatory mechanisms.

    I do not think it would be a good move to limit PvP to certain areas / BGs. It unnecessarily takes away an exciting aspect of the game. Besides that,  how would you explain that you cannot hit the person next to you.

     

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Iadien
    SoE will not force PVP on everyone. They would be foolish to do so.

    exactly, i would be shocked if they forced pvp on everyone. i will be surprised if there isn't pvp in the game to some extent though.

  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALPosts: 1,099Member Uncommon
    All the quote says is they have pvp in mind. It does not say it will focus on PvP. I'm sure it will be an afterthought like most AAA games.
  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,836Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by Iadien SoE will not force PVP on everyone. They would be foolish to do so.
    You can run, not fight, or even not buy the game. Better yet, play as to not put yourself in a pvp situation. You are never "forced to pvp." You choose to pvp.

    he is right, though.

    fans of the original EQ are PVE players, very few were interested in pvp and if EQN has pvp everywhere in the game that you cant avoid, that will turn off a lot of the fans.

    this is coming from someone who played EQ on a pvp server, just being realistic.

  • DauzqulDauzqul Detroit, MIPosts: 1,402Member Uncommon

    I don't see a problem at all.

    PvE Server

    RP-PvE Server

    PvP Server

    RP-PvP Server

     

     

    As long as they don't have to terrible Battleground-Arena system that works between servers and rewards players with gear, the game will probably do well.

  • OberholzerOberholzer Hasbrouck Heights, NJPosts: 498Member
    I think this info is about as important as ambiguous twitter statements. Not that it can't be right but it's not anymore telling than anything else being how long ago it was and versions of the game have been scrapped since then. Just hoping for an awesome game whatever form it takes.  
  • ScalplessScalpless SnowballvillePosts: 1,395Member Uncommon
    This could mean practically anything. You could say GW2 and TESO were designed from the ground up with PvP in mind, because "PvP" isn't the same as "FFA full-loot PvP".
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,062Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AticusWelles
    I'm curious if there has been a single AAA MMO that didnt include PVP in the last several years?

    PVP will indeed be an important part of EQN (IMO), just like most new MMOs, but I seriously doubt SOE won't give people who don't want it an out.

    My guess is PVP server(s) and "Normal" server(s) with flagged PVP.

    This, it's like these people forget that EQ had ffa open world pvp with different rule sets, no problem with that at all. EQN with PVP servers is what i think Smed&co will do, the pvp should be happy with that.

     

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