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End Game testing?

MoodsorMoodsor HerningPosts: 650Member Uncommon

So I will first like to say I love ARR, I have played the last many betas and I have bought CE and will be playing at launch, but I am a bit concerned that theres been zero endgame testing, theres supposed to be dungeons, raids, 3 faction pvp and coliseum and ive seen games drown before because the endgame was broken at release.

I dunno I just felt like voicing my concern here.

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Comments

  • VolgoreVolgore Posts: 2,210Member Uncommon

    ARR would be the first game i'd preorder in a very long time, but your point is exactly why i rather wait it out.

    I've been hearing the "there'll be enough endgame ready at release, don't worry"-phrase way too often to fall for it another time.

    Unless someone in the beta has experienced it and can give info about not only it's quality, but also it's quantity, i rather pass then being bored with no options 1 week after max level again.

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  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,462Member Uncommon

    Square has NEVER been about end game until late in FFXI because they feel it is easier to focus on end level content only rather than a whole game.To be honest that is what most devs do and it is a huge mistake.

    All end game is in ANY and every game is a time sink,and that should be the last thing we want.it is suppose to be a game to enjoy the ride,then if you enjoyed it,you go and enjoy it playing a different class.You don't enjoy a game hanging out on a character that is already done leveling unless you are farming gear for your other classes.

    What i fear more is how Square did the crafting/harvesting.Example you are going to need a high tier zone while on say a mining class that would never be able to survive if it had to fight off aggro.IMO they should not have separated the classes,they SHOULD have kept it exactly like FFXI design.

    The last thing i want to see is Square start concentrating on dungeons and end game because i can tell you what happens and it is 100% a guarantee.If players all want end game,Square is going to create such a massive grind it will ruin the game,exactly what they did with Abyssea and gear grinding in FFXI.

    What the game SHOULD do is  create lots of various content throughout all levels all zones.I am quite certain they will end up going down the same paths as either Wow or FFXI,i don't like either idea.I am going to give Yoshi the benefit,they say he is smart,i think he is also,i hope he is going to do more than just copy other games.It does worry me though because what he did was make his staff play other games to get a feel for what works in other games.personally i don't want other games,i want FFXIV and ONLY FFXIV. 


    Samoan Diamond

  • MoodsorMoodsor HerningPosts: 650Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Square has NEVER been about end game until late in FFXI because they feel it is easier to focus on end level content only rather than a whole game.To be honest that is what most devs do and it is a huge mistake.

    All end game is in ANY and every game is a time sink,and that should be the last thing we want.it is suppose to be a game to enjoy the ride,then if you enjoyed it,you go and enjoy it playing a different class.You don't enjoy a game hanging out on a character that is already done leveling unless you are farming gear for your other classes.

    What i fear more is how Square did the crafting/harvesting.Example you are going to need a high tier zone while on say a mining class that would never be able to survive if it had to fight off aggro.IMO they should not have separated the classes,they SHOULD have kept it exactly like FFXI design.

    The last thing i want to see is Square start concentrating on dungeons and end game because i can tell you what happens and it is 100% a guarantee.If players all want end game,Square is going to create such a massive grind it will ruin the game,exactly what they did with Abyssea and gear grinding in FFXI.

    What the game SHOULD do is  create lots of various content throughout all levels all zones.I am quite certain they will end up going down the same paths as either Wow or FFXI,i don't like either idea.I am going to give Yoshi the benefit,they say he is smart,i think he is also,i hope he is going to do more than just copy other games.It does worry me though because what he did was make his staff play other games to get a feel for what works in other games.personally i don't want other games,i want FFXIV and ONLY FFXIV. 

    Yeah well thats too late :) They already talked about dungeons, raids, 3 faction pvp at endgame, so its gonna be there, my concern was about if it will be in a working state, and while i appreciate your input on FFXI, even Yoshida himself realizes we live in different times now :) FFXIV is a different beast from FFXI.

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  • jabhamanojabhamano Hong KongPosts: 22Member

    3 faction pvp in ff14 end game ? 

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by Moodsor
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Square has NEVER been about end game until late in FFXI because they feel it is easier to focus on end level content only rather than a whole game.To be honest that is what most devs do and it is a huge mistake.

    All end game is in ANY and every game is a time sink,and that should be the last thing we want.it is suppose to be a game to enjoy the ride,then if you enjoyed it,you go and enjoy it playing a different class.You don't enjoy a game hanging out on a character that is already done leveling unless you are farming gear for your other classes.

    What i fear more is how Square did the crafting/harvesting.Example you are going to need a high tier zone while on say a mining class that would never be able to survive if it had to fight off aggro.IMO they should not have separated the classes,they SHOULD have kept it exactly like FFXI design.

    The last thing i want to see is Square start concentrating on dungeons and end game because i can tell you what happens and it is 100% a guarantee.If players all want end game,Square is going to create such a massive grind it will ruin the game,exactly what they did with Abyssea and gear grinding in FFXI.

    What the game SHOULD do is  create lots of various content throughout all levels all zones.I am quite certain they will end up going down the same paths as either Wow or FFXI,i don't like either idea.I am going to give Yoshi the benefit,they say he is smart,i think he is also,i hope he is going to do more than just copy other games.It does worry me though because what he did was make his staff play other games to get a feel for what works in other games.personally i don't want other games,i want FFXIV and ONLY FFXIV. 

    Yeah well thats too late :) They already talked about dungeons, raids, 3 faction pvp at endgame, so its gonna be there, my concern was about if it will be in a working state, and while i appreciate your input on FFXI, even Yoshida himself realizes we live in different times now :) FFXIV is a different beast from FFXI.

     

    They have never publicly tested endgame content, and it has always been in a working state.  FFXIV 1.0 was their test for endgame content I suppose with Darnus, etc.

     

    Hopefully in phase 4 we at least get access to some of that old endgame content to see how combat/job dynamics truly work out in ARR, however they have repeatedly said there is no way in hell they are going to let us see Crystal Tower or Labyrinth of Bahamut until official release.

     

    The battle team seems to take it somewhat personally when groups beat new endgame encounters faster than they expected, so they definitely don't want any spoilers or hints going out (as they could just re-adjust them as many games that do public endgame testing).  Anyways seeing as how other than the BLM stacking exploit at Garuda (allowing you to skip final 2 phases of the fight if you had enough damage).  Which took them a couple weeks to fix I haven't encountered any major problems with endgame content this team has released I'm not too worried about it being broken.

     

    If you are non-legacy the legacy players will be beta testing all your endgame content for you pretty quickly after launch, and if you are legacy then you probably won't mind even if it does have bugs since you suffered through Tanaka's version.  I'm hoping it is top quality, but there sure is a lot of launch content we haven't seen yet.  Nothing to do but wait and see.

     

    Also to wizardry FFXI was pure tedium and grind prior to endgame.  Everything about it I loved was related to endgame, even CoP missions which despite being level capped were so clearly endgame (no one brought "noobs" to CoP missions).  The final 10 levels of XI were the most painful because you had been grinding so long that most people wanted to quit, the only thing that kept most playing was the promise of endgame.  Talking NA launch here, maybe now it is a blast doing Field of Valor book burns up to level 99 /sarcasm.

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon
    I'm pretty sure there will be Grand Company content and the Primal stuff. Maybe if we are "lucky" they will murder crafting and add a .005% enchantment system for our relic gear.
  • MoodsorMoodsor HerningPosts: 650Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by Moodsor
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Square has NEVER been about end game until late in FFXI because they feel it is easier to focus on end level content only rather than a whole game.To be honest that is what most devs do and it is a huge mistake.

    All end game is in ANY and every game is a time sink,and that should be the last thing we want.it is suppose to be a game to enjoy the ride,then if you enjoyed it,you go and enjoy it playing a different class.You don't enjoy a game hanging out on a character that is already done leveling unless you are farming gear for your other classes.

    What i fear more is how Square did the crafting/harvesting.Example you are going to need a high tier zone while on say a mining class that would never be able to survive if it had to fight off aggro.IMO they should not have separated the classes,they SHOULD have kept it exactly like FFXI design.

    The last thing i want to see is Square start concentrating on dungeons and end game because i can tell you what happens and it is 100% a guarantee.If players all want end game,Square is going to create such a massive grind it will ruin the game,exactly what they did with Abyssea and gear grinding in FFXI.

    What the game SHOULD do is  create lots of various content throughout all levels all zones.I am quite certain they will end up going down the same paths as either Wow or FFXI,i don't like either idea.I am going to give Yoshi the benefit,they say he is smart,i think he is also,i hope he is going to do more than just copy other games.It does worry me though because what he did was make his staff play other games to get a feel for what works in other games.personally i don't want other games,i want FFXIV and ONLY FFXIV. 

    Yeah well thats too late :) They already talked about dungeons, raids, 3 faction pvp at endgame, so its gonna be there, my concern was about if it will be in a working state, and while i appreciate your input on FFXI, even Yoshida himself realizes we live in different times now :) FFXIV is a different beast from FFXI.

     

    They have never publicly tested endgame content, and it has always been in a working state.  FFXIV 1.0 was their test for endgame content I suppose with Darnus, etc.

     

    Hopefully in phase 4 we at least get access to some of that old endgame content to see how combat/job dynamics truly work out in ARR, however they have repeatedly said there is no way in hell they are going to let us see Crystal Tower or Labyrinth of Bahamut until official release.

     

    The battle team seems to take it somewhat personally when groups beat new endgame encounters faster than they expected, so they definitely don't want any spoilers or hints going out (as they could just re-adjust them as many games that do public endgame testing).  Anyways seeing as how other than the BLM stacking exploit at Garuda (allowing you to skip final 2 phases of the fight if you had enough damage).  Which took them a couple weeks to fix I haven't encountered any major problems with endgame content this team has released I'm not too worried about it being broken.

     

    If you are non-legacy the legacy players will be beta testing all your endgame content for you pretty quickly after launch, and if you are legacy then you probably won't mind even if it does have bugs since you suffered through Tanaka's version.  I'm hoping it is top quality, but there sure is a lot of launch content we haven't seen yet.  Nothing to do but wait and see.

     

    Also to wizardry FFXI was pure tedium and grind prior to endgame.  Everything about it I loved was related to endgame, even CoP missions which despite being level capped were so clearly endgame (no one brought "noobs" to CoP missions).  The final 10 levels of XI were the most painful because you had been grinding so long that most people wanted to quit, the only thing that kept most playing was the promise of endgame.  Talking NA launch here, maybe now it is a blast doing Field of Valor book burns up to level 99 /sarcasm.

    Useful reply as always Murugan, thank you :)

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  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Danbury, DEPosts: 390Member Uncommon

    You've seen games drown before because the endgame was broken at release?

     

    Really?  How hard did you have to look?  FFXIV is that game.  That is the whole reason they had to re-do the entire game.  1.0 wasn't a "test" to see if their endgame worked.  1.0 was one of the great failures in all of Video Games.  That is the reason the entire game was scrapped and the people in charge were moved OUT of their positions and a whole new set of people were brought in.

     

    Can you imagine if they went through the entire process all over, and once again decided to release a half-baked product?

     

    This game had better be totally 100% finished August 27th.  Even if it is, there is such a small chance that this game will even come back from the dead.  If they release another crappy product, or give us the whole "we will address that issue in a later patch" do you think anyone will bother logging in again?

  • deveilbladdeveilblad Saint-Constant, QCPosts: 177Member
    Originally posted by Wizardryt on a character that is already done leveling unless you are farming gear for your other classes.

    What i fear more is how Square did the crafting/harvesting.Example you are going to need a high tier zone while on say a mining class that would never be able to survive if it had to fight off aggro.IMO they should not have separated the classes,they SHOULD have kept it exactly like FFXI design.

    You get a stealth ability when you start getting higher into mining, for example, don't you ?

  • intrinscintrinsc EGG HARBOR CITY, NJPosts: 91Member

    A couple of things:

    1) Judging by how long it takes to level a good core of the players, besides those who can devote 16 hours at launch to the game, will take a while to level to endgame.

    2) Because they aren't publicly testing it doesn't mean they aren't privately. A lot of games do this, specially if they are high-profile games, because it's not a lot of content at the start and it allows them to focus the testing to few players to get better feedback. I guarantee you they have some guilds in there testing it privately with maxxed out toons or have been doing it in-house for a very long time.

     

     

     

     

  • MoodsorMoodsor HerningPosts: 650Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

    You've seen games drown before because the endgame was broken at release?

     

    Really?  How hard did you have to look?  FFXIV is that game.  That is the whole reason they had to re-do the entire game.  1.0 wasn't a "test" to see if their endgame worked.  1.0 was one of the great failures in all of Video Games.  That is the reason the entire game was scrapped and the people in charge were moved OUT of their positions and a whole new set of people were brought in.

     

    Can you imagine if they went through the entire process all over, and once again decided to release a half-baked product?

     

    This game had better be totally 100% finished August 27th.  Even if it is, there is such a small chance that this game will even come back from the dead.  If they release another crappy product, or give us the whole "we will address that issue in a later patch" do you think anyone will bother logging in again?

    I dont need a lecture on what 1.0 was, I bought the CE, im Legacy, thats not the point of this thread, even if you are right about ppl not putting up with the same shit once again.

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  • psysentionpsysention BrisbanePosts: 17Member

    played this game since cbt1

    i think its old-gen mmorpg, nicely polished visually.. but as gameplay its terrible.. especially combat is one of the worst i have ever played.. there are games out there with action combat.. after playing those games, tab target/spam 123 feels noobish..

    also 2.50 sec global cd totally kills all the fun and excitement from the game.. not to mention even counter-attack skills (for example, skills that unlocks after you dodge, or block, or whatever.) effected by global CD.. this is a game where every skills including COUNTER attacks gots affected by global cd.. combat is slow and boring..

     

    Yeah there are gamers out there who plays turn based combat games etc.. they would like this game, since combat is slow and noob-friendly..

  • Agrias34Agrias34 new salem, PAPosts: 147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Square has NEVER been about end game until late in FFXI because they feel it is easier to focus on end level content only rather than a whole game.To be honest that is what most devs do and it is a huge mistake.

    All end game is in ANY and every game is a time sink,and that should be the last thing we want.it is suppose to be a game to enjoy the ride,then if you enjoyed it,you go and enjoy it playing a different class.You don't enjoy a game hanging out on a character that is already done leveling unless you are farming gear for your other classes.

    What i fear more is how Square did the crafting/harvesting.Example you are going to need a high tier zone while on say a mining class that would never be able to survive if it had to fight off aggro.IMO they should not have separated the classes,they SHOULD have kept it exactly like FFXI design.

    The last thing i want to see is Square start concentrating on dungeons and end game because i can tell you what happens and it is 100% a guarantee.If players all want end game,Square is going to create such a massive grind it will ruin the game,exactly what they did with Abyssea and gear grinding in FFXI.

    What the game SHOULD do is  create lots of various content throughout all levels all zones.I am quite certain they will end up going down the same paths as either Wow or FFXI,i don't like either idea.I am going to give Yoshi the benefit,they say he is smart,i think he is also,i hope he is going to do more than just copy other games.It does worry me though because what he did was make his staff play other games to get a feel for what works in other games.personally i don't want other games,i want FFXIV and ONLY FFXIV. 

    Yep, this is exactly what Guild Wars 2 did, except all my friends, guild, and family all quit playing the game after about 3 weeks because it got boring and nobody wanted to grind out leveling the *dynamic content* over and over because it basically is the same thing.

    Even if there is some dynamic questing and leveling process involved, I'd much rather have 1 character who can interchange all of the classes and crafting, and do whatever I want.  I think it is being executed well in FFXIV for this exact reason.

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deveilblad
    Originally posted by Wizardryt on a character that is already done leveling unless you are farming gear for your other classes.

    What i fear more is how Square did the crafting/harvesting.Example you are going to need a high tier zone while on say a mining class that would never be able to survive if it had to fight off aggro.IMO they should not have separated the classes,they SHOULD have kept it exactly like FFXI design.

    You get a stealth ability when you start getting higher into mining, for example, don't you ?

    Stealth is for below 30. Aggro can be avoided in most places above 30 for exploration but based on the node placement I have seen so far, they are in fact using aggro to slow down the level speed of Gathering and it's pretty slow without the aggro.

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Square has NEVER been about end game until late in FFXI because they feel it is easier to focus on end level content only rather than a whole game.To be honest that is what most devs do and it is a huge mistake.

    All end game is in ANY and every game is a time sink,and that should be the last thing we want.it is suppose to be a game to enjoy the ride,then if you enjoyed it,you go and enjoy it playing a different class.You don't enjoy a game hanging out on a character that is already done leveling unless you are farming gear for your other classes.

    What i fear more is how Square did the crafting/harvesting.Example you are going to need a high tier zone while on say a mining class that would never be able to survive if it had to fight off aggro.IMO they should not have separated the classes,they SHOULD have kept it exactly like FFXI design.

    The last thing i want to see is Square start concentrating on dungeons and end game because i can tell you what happens and it is 100% a guarantee.If players all want end game,Square is going to create such a massive grind it will ruin the game,exactly what they did with Abyssea and gear grinding in FFXI.

    What the game SHOULD do is  create lots of various content throughout all levels all zones.I am quite certain they will end up going down the same paths as either Wow or FFXI,i don't like either idea.I am going to give Yoshi the benefit,they say he is smart,i think he is also,i hope he is going to do more than just copy other games.It does worry me though because what he did was make his staff play other games to get a feel for what works in other games.personally i don't want other games,i want FFXIV and ONLY FFXIV. 

    That is also the only way the p2p mmorpg (or any mmorpg) will ever work. MMORPGs are designed for profit and the only way to create profit is to make players play the game as much and as for long as possible, you know, to pay subscription or new xpansions. MMORPGs are not single player games  ... Good luck making mmorpg just for fun without any time sink, it will work for few weeks, then hello offlilne servers.

  • ResiaResia Glen Rock, NJPosts: 119Member
    Stealth has tiers, you get one for 50 critters eventually

    "Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better." parrotpholk

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member
    End game content will be one of those they will fix if it needs fixing along the way of released game, players will eventually dribble into end game and report any problems that arise.  I'm sure many people including myself don't want to see to much of the game before release
  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Pretty sure its going to take me forever to get a job to 50, let alone a Main job + sub jobs + crafting + gathering.
  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Resia
    Stealth has tiers, you get one for 50 critters eventually

    There might be one in the Botany tree but I looked at all the skills in the Miner tree. There were none for stealthing over 30.

     

    On the other topics

    900 levels

    Materia

    Materials

    Jobs

    Grand Companies

    Guild points

    Hunting/ Crafting/ Gathering Journals

    Achievements

     

    Yep, loads of stuff to do. If you don't burn out trying to do it all in the first month.

  • ZenTaoYingYangZenTaoYingYang BahrainPosts: 354Member

    I should state that you will be satisfied with end game content , why? its simple, the way the dev team works is the key given how interactive and responsive they are with community.

     

    for example, open beta will be for the 80% of end game content, during release they will implement the remaining 20% and treat it like beta, if mistakes happen, they already said their will be full dev support team working on weekly patches not to fix bugs only but to fix content if enough players voice their opinion.

     

     

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