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Anyone else find the combat lacking?

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Comments

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon
    RYL, never forget.
  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

    in Wow?

    or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

    1-4 buttons?

    This game has the same amount.

    I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

    I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

    This was never a discussion about the number of skills early / late game.

    No? The number of skills have nothing to do with why you find the combat bland?

    You can bother to post about how you think that I'm off topic asking you questions, yet you cannot be bothered to answer them... when they pertain directly to your complaint.

    I was just wondering why you thought it was bland... I guess you yourself do not know.

  • PulsarManPulsarMan Tampa, FLPosts: 289Member
    I enjoy it for what it is. I do hope they add a bit more diversity with the limit breaks. Or something similar to skill chains. 
  • BatCakezBatCakez None O''ya Business, CAPosts: 127Member

    I've found the combat to be very stale. I nearly did not go through with the beta because I felt so disappointed with this 'rebirth' conclusion. However, I figured I shouldn't be so biased and thought to give it another chance. I think some other things make up for the combat lacking.. like the crafting. The quests are not as annoying as WoW, either. Some of the armor is cute or interesting,  and so on. Bits and pieces but I'm still finding myself curious as to whether I should play this game on launch or not.

    I personally miss the old animations from FFXIV 1.0, just my two cents, they were a million times better and combat was not as stiff in appearance.

     

    I'll admit though, the lack of action combat is very close to actuall FF games, so it brings some nostalgia and novelty with it.

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by PulsarMan
    I enjoy it for what it is. I do hope they add a bit more diversity with the limit breaks. Or something similar to skill chains. 

    On the flip side, what do you enjoy about it?

    I myself think it's combat is pretty standard, which I don't think is a bad thing.  It mimics a lot of other game's combat systems and yet comes up with its own mixture of things.

    It has combos, it has a lot of the standard fare in MMOs, like global cool down based attacks, auto attacks, it seems like it doesn't try to reinvent the wheel, just polish it.  Which I like that mentality.

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,171Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

    in Wow?

    or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

    1-4 buttons?

    This game has the same amount.

    I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

    I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

    This was never a discussion about the number of skills early / late game.

    No? The number of skills have nothing to do with why you find the combat bland?

    You can bother to post about how you think that I'm off topic asking you questions, yet you cannot be bothered to answer them... when they pertain directly to your complaint.

    I was just wondering why you thought it was bland... I guess you yourself do not know.

    No, the number of skills have nothing to do with visceral combat. People want games where you hit someone they feel it in their chair. What makes this possible? Good animation frames, hit boxes, and super armor/flinching systems. The combat is simply dated, not sure why people can't see that.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    You get gear that lowers global cool downs too so the speed of combat will be much faster as you progress.
  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Posts: 758Member Uncommon
    Nothing seems lacking to me the combat is traditional but a little slower. I don't know what you think is lacking, running around doesn't make sense with the slower paced combat. If you want action combat, then wait for FFXV cause combat isn't changing in this game. If you don't like the combat now, then you most likely won't like it later on in the game either.
  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    No, the number of skills have nothing to do with visceral combat. People want games where you hit someone they feel it in their chair. What makes this possible? Good animation frames, hit boxes, and super armor/flinching systems. The combat is simply dated, not sure why people can't see that.

    Dated how? 

    Personally the animations DO look 'VISCERAL' to me, when you savage blade it looks like you just cut the monster up, the combat animations look fantastic... 

    What's a super armor flinching system?  I have no idea what that is...

    Hit boxes?  This game has that... every game does.. do you mean collision detection? 

  • F2PlagueF2Plague Toronto, ONPosts: 57Member
    FFXIV may not be for you if you don't like the combat. Although it will pick up as you level, a lot of the game is built around grouping and team combat. Which a lot of people including myself like. But I also liked action combat, not many people will admit that Tera actually had great combat. Some of the best times I've had on an MMO were doing clan wars. That being said, I will be playing FFXI, but what I am really waiting for is Black Desert. If you haven't taken a look at that I suggest you do, sounds like its right up your alley. No release date yet, as its in closed beta in Korea. But many Western publishers are interested in making it happen already.
  • django-djangodjango-django ElthamPosts: 115Member
    I really enjoy the combat, the animations especially brings it to life and makes the battles much more interesting, quite the opposite of bland to be honest.
  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

    in Wow?

    or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

    1-4 buttons?

    This game has the same amount.

    I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

    I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

     

    By level 20 in XIV you are 40% of the way to cap. Just so someone doesn't jump down my throat; I don't mean in terms of experience, but in terms of skill progression for a single job. Lancer, for example, has eight abilities and four or five passive traits by 20. I don't remember how many cross-class abilities you get at 20, but I'm pretty sure it's not more than four or so. So, to recap we have eight abilities plus four (give or take) from another job, and four passive skills by level 20(40% of the way to cap) in FFXIV:ARR. 

     

    To contrast, a level 50 (55% of the way to cap) Shaman in WoW has 27 base abilities and three passive abilities. There are three specs. One adds, two new abilities and 10 passives. The second spec adds four abilities and six passives. The third adds six abilities and seven passives. On top of that there are three talent points with a total of nine choices and a bunch(15+) of glyphs to choose from. 

     

    ARR just does not offer a very deep and/or complex combat system for someone to sink their teeth into which is fine, but let's not try to put lipstick on a pig. 

     

    edit: I forgot about advanced job skills for ARR which would add a few more abilities. 

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

    in Wow?

    or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

    1-4 buttons?

    This game has the same amount.

    I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

    I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

     

    By level 20 in XIV you are 40% of the way to cap. Just so someone doesn't jump down my throat; I don't mean in terms of experience, but in terms of skill progression for a single job. Lancer, for example, has eight abilities and four or five passive traits by 20. I don't remember how many cross-class abilities you get at 20, but I'm pretty sure it's not more than four or so. So, to recap we have eight abilities plus four (give or take) from another job, and four passive skills by level 20(40% of the way to cap) in FFXIV:ARR. 

     

    To contrast, a level 50 (55% of the way to cap) Shaman in WoW has 27 base abilities and three passive abilities. There are three specs. One adds, two new abilities and 10 passives. The second spec adds four abilities and six passives. The third adds six abilities and seven passives. On top of that there are three talent points with a total of nine choices and a bunch(15+) of glyphs to choose from. 

     

    ARR just does not offer a very deep and/or complex combat system for someone to sink their teeth into which is fine, but let's not try to put lipstick on a pig. 

    At level 50 (level cap right now in ARR) you have 27 abilities as any given job.

    That is far more than you probably will actually need.

    Lets look at my Paladin on WoW and check out how many abilities it has that are rarely if ever used... quite a few...

    My point isn't that 'oh wow this game has A LOT of skills'.  My point was it has enough to do what it needs, which is create a compelling combat system.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77

     

    By level 20 in XIV you are 40% of the way to cap. Just so someone doesn't jump down my throat; I don't mean in terms of experience, but in terms of skill progression for a single job. Lancer, for example, has eight abilities and four or five passive traits by 20. I don't remember how many cross-class abilities you get at 20, but I'm pretty sure it's not more than four or so. So, to recap we have eight abilities plus four (give or take) from another job, and four passive skills by level 20(40% of the way to cap) in FFXIV:ARR. 

     

    To contrast, a level 50 (55% of the way to cap) Shaman in WoW has 27 base abilities and three passive abilities. There are three specs. One adds, two new abilities and 10 passives. The second spec adds four abilities and six passives. The third adds six abilities and seven passives. On top of that there are three talent points with a total of nine choices and a bunch(15+) of glyphs to choose from. 

     

    ARR just does not offer a very deep and/or complex combat system for someone to sink their teeth into which is fine, but let's not try to put lipstick on a pig. 

     

    edit: I forgot about advanced job skills for ARR which would add a few more abilities. 

    In vanilla WoW when the game was released the level cap was 60 so 50% would be level 30 not 50 before all the expansions. Maybe that would be a more fair comparison?

  • ChrisboxChrisbox Monroe, NJPosts: 1,707Member Uncommon

    I just can't go back to tab target, I think your on the same boat as me.  

     

    Played-Everything
    Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

    in Wow?

    or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

    1-4 buttons?

    This game has the same amount.

    I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

    I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

     

    By level 20 in XIV you are 40% of the way to cap. Just so someone doesn't jump down my throat; I don't mean in terms of experience, but in terms of skill progression for a single job. Lancer, for example, has eight abilities and four or five passive traits by 20. I don't remember how many cross-class abilities you get at 20, but I'm pretty sure it's not more than four or so. So, to recap we have eight abilities plus four (give or take) from another job, and four passive skills by level 20(40% of the way to cap) in FFXIV:ARR. 

     

    To contrast, a level 50 (55% of the way to cap) Shaman in WoW has 27 base abilities and three passive abilities. There are three specs. One adds, two new abilities and 10 passives. The second spec adds four abilities and six passives. The third adds six abilities and seven passives. On top of that there are three talent points with a total of nine choices and a bunch(15+) of glyphs to choose from. 

     

    ARR just does not offer a very deep and/or complex combat system for someone to sink their teeth into which is fine, but let's not try to put lipstick on a pig. 

    At level 50 (level cap right now in ARR) you have 27 abilities as any given job.

    That is far more than you probably will actually need.

    Lets look at my Paladin on WoW and check out how many abilities it has that are rarely if ever used... quite a few...

    My point isn't that 'oh wow this game has A LOT of skills'.  My point was it has enough to do what it needs, which is create a compelling combat system.

     

    I don't think it's very compelling at all. I think it's probably one of the most boring combat systems I've ever experienced. 

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77

    I don't think it's very compelling at all. I think it's probably one of the most boring combat systems I've ever experienced. 

    What did you find boring about it?

    The GCD being too long?

    You don't like tab targeting any more?

    I'm just wondering, its hard to have a discussion when the only things given to discuss are 'I think its boring'

     

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by simsalabim77
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by Impulse47
    First and foremost, I am an oldschool Final Fantasy nerd.  When I heard the prologue music for this game I nearly burst into actual tears of nostalgia.  I -want- to like and play this game.  That being said, recently I have played TERA, Guild Wars 2, and DCUO, to name a few MMOs.  So I've rolled an Archer in FF14, and it is by far the most bland combat I've experienced in years.  It feels like a huge step backwards from other modern titles.  Is there really no active dodging?  I can shoot an arrow through a crowd of mobs and it will hit my tabbed target way in the back?  Combat so far is peg target and kite in circles mashing 1 and occasionally other skills.  Does combat ever get better, or even compare to these other games?

    How many buttons do you hit at level 10 in TERA?

    in Wow?

    or what ever other game you are comparing this game to.

    1-4 buttons?

    This game has the same amount.

    I've played  TERA, GW2, and their combat systems are quite similar. 

    I don't understand why people play new games and then try to compare level 1-20 to level 50-90 on whatever game they were playing, but that seems to happen all the time...

     

    By level 20 in XIV you are 40% of the way to cap. Just so someone doesn't jump down my throat; I don't mean in terms of experience, but in terms of skill progression for a single job. Lancer, for example, has eight abilities and four or five passive traits by 20. I don't remember how many cross-class abilities you get at 20, but I'm pretty sure it's not more than four or so. So, to recap we have eight abilities plus four (give or take) from another job, and four passive skills by level 20(40% of the way to cap) in FFXIV:ARR. 

     

    To contrast, a level 50 (55% of the way to cap) Shaman in WoW has 27 base abilities and three passive abilities. There are three specs. One adds, two new abilities and 10 passives. The second spec adds four abilities and six passives. The third adds six abilities and seven passives. On top of that there are three talent points with a total of nine choices and a bunch(15+) of glyphs to choose from. 

     

    ARR just does not offer a very deep and/or complex combat system for someone to sink their teeth into which is fine, but let's not try to put lipstick on a pig. 

    At level 50 (level cap right now in ARR) you have 27 abilities as any given job.

    That is far more than you probably will actually need.

    Lets look at my Paladin on WoW and check out how many abilities it has that are rarely if ever used... quite a few...

    My point isn't that 'oh wow this game has A LOT of skills'.  My point was it has enough to do what it needs, which is create a compelling combat system.

    ... except the number of skills does not equal a compelling combat system. It certain can help, but it's all about the complexity of the combat mechanics that determines whether or not it's compelling or not. Not the number of skills. WoW is a good example of this (as it has a ton of skills, but many of them are redundant, or function more or less the same).

  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by aesperus

    ... except the number of skills does not equal a compelling combat system. It certain can help, but it's all about the complexity of the combat mechanics that determines whether or not it's compelling or not. Not the number of skills. WoW is a good example of this (as it has a ton of skills, but many of them are redundant, or function more or less the same).

    I agree, didn't say it was, my point was you need a few skills at least to make a compelling system.  This game has a variety of skills, I feel the number you are expected to know / learn / master at high level is a rather good number.

     

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77

     

    I don't think it's very compelling at all. I think it's probably one of the most boring combat systems I've ever experienced. 

    Your comparison with XIV and WoW is not fair at all since your comparing a mmo with raised level cap after several expansion to something thats only about to be released.  You gotta compare it to vanilla WoW when the cap was 60 and mid level was a level 30 character.

  • jabhamanojabhamano Hong KongPosts: 22Member

    archer being too simple ? :-) its most complex combat style in game so far. i played all classes and its offensive how easy, plain and simple they are. 

    Lets call things as they are. this combat system is plain, simple and boring. Way too easy. 

    Target-lock system can be fun, interesting and challenging to play, but only if there is really alot of skills to choose from. So you can work on your personal skill as player of controlling your character to its fullest potential. So In games like that comes in mind human skill factor besides being geared or not.  In ff14 you have only few skills at max class level and half of them has really long cooldowns. So every class gameplay looks like 1,2,3,4 again 1,2,3,4,, or 1,2,3 , 1 ,2,4, 1 ,2 ,3 ... you have the idea.

    in free target combat games like tera, you might be using relatively same amount of skills as in ff14, but at least there you have to position yourself all the time, and use at right moment those abilities which makes you either avoid or block attacks which would kill you with single hit. Target lock with very limited amount of skills cant be compared to this kind of gameplay at all. I dont know why some people are trying to set them as equal. Bad taste comparison.

  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Somewhere, CAPosts: 627Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Laughing-man
    Originally posted by simsalabim77

    I don't think it's very compelling at all. I think it's probably one of the most boring combat systems I've ever experienced. 

    What did you find boring about it?

    The GCD being too long?

    You don't like tab targeting any more?

    I'm just wondering, its hard to have a discussion when the only things given to discuss are 'I think its boring'

     

     

    The GCD does feel way too long to me. I don' t need almost 3 seconds between abilities. I don't think very many people actually do unless they're playing one handed while a cat blocks the monitor or something. It feels extremely sluggish. 

    It is mechanically uninteresting to me. For instance, it lacks interesting interplay between skills IMO. There aren't very many skill resets, or counters to care about, DOT clipping, buff duration, buff potency etc. There aren't any "clutch" skills like BOP, LOH, throwing a powerful offheal to save a wipe etc. It pretty much boils down to pressing the few buttons that do the most damage while pre-buffing before your most damaging skill. 

    I'd like to see way more situation skills that you found you never used on your Pally like some of the Hands or macroing on a shield, using RF and taunting a raid boss at 1% after the main tank died. There's just no skills in ARR that make me think, "How can I use this in an interesting way?" 

     

    Now, please don't mistake this as me saying the game is bad, as I enjoy nearly every aspect besides the combat. 

  • Odinthedark1Odinthedark1 Linden, NJPosts: 330Member
    its not "Action packed" but the basic mmo combat, nothing wrong with the classic combat either i actually prefer over to hybrid garbage stuff like gw2, neverwinter, etc...but thats my opinion. I love the game so far but the start is so very slow paced i refuse to get into it till OB when we keep our chars....i could go on about all the things i love about the game, but in short i find the classic combat to be fun and have nothing against.
  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Dublin, OHPosts: 3,415Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jabhamano

    archer being too simple ? :-) its most complex combat style in game so far. i played all classes and its offensive how easy, plain and simple they are. 

    Lets call things as they are. this combat system is plain, simple and boring. Way too easy. 

    Target-lock system can be fun, interesting and challenging to play, but only if there is really alot of skills to choose from. So you can work on your personal skill as player of controlling your character to its fullest potential. So In games like that comes in mind human skill factor besides being geared or not.  In ff14 you have only few skills at max class level and half of them has really long cooldowns. So every class gameplay looks like 1,2,3,4 again 1,2,3,4,, or 1,2,3 , 1 ,2,4, 1 ,2 ,3 ... you have the idea.

    in free target combat games like tera, you might be using relatively same amount of skills as in ff14, but at least there you have to position yourself all the time, and use at right moment those abilities which makes you either avoid or block attacks which would kill you with single hit. Target lock with very limited amount of skills cant be compared to this kind of gameplay at all. I dont know why some people are trying to set them as equal. Bad taste comparison.

    Ok, so you don't like FFXIV because it has tab targeting.  (I love TERA, played 3 toons to level cap, fun game)  This game is tab target, and if you don't like that type of game then I completely understand why you don't like FFXIV.

    Don't pretend though that in TERA you don't just hit 1 2 3 4 a lot too...  There are plenty of times when bosses sit still long enough for you to repeatedly do the same combo several times to it.

    And to be honest this game's healing is VERY similar to TERA's (at least as a mystic) I had a very limited number of healing spells and I mostly ran around casting the same hand full of spells with a few situational abilities to help keep the party up in emergencies.

    There are a lot of skills in 14 that require timing, and there are lots of reactionary abilities, just like most mmos these days.

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simsalabim77

     

    The GCD does feel way too long to me.

    You do get gear that lowers GCD as you progress

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