Mistmoore and Lower Guk! Who is with me who wants cool dungeons full of mystery, mis-adventure and crazy learning curves?
What other cool puzzles or classic game content would you love to see in EQN?
I gotta say Dejo- you come up with some great topics to talk about, and you don't get everyone all indignant by bringing up any thing negative. Kudos!
I loved EQ's dungeons. Even at low levels they were fun and kind of scary at times. Especially when it's your first time in one and you are on the low side of the level range for it and almost anything can kill you quick one-on-one.
As to having all the info about dungeons on the net, I agree that can suck the life out of grouping and exploring. The main thing that ruined DDO for me was that every group had at least one person that knew every nook and cranny of a dungeon or quest. I loved the rogue skills, but every time I would try to range ahead and spot a trap or secret door, someone would tell me before I got near it and would even point out where the box was to disarm it. Really took the fun and surprise out of everything. That was great thing about EQ dungeons- you might know your way around or where named bosses were located but that didn't really make it easier to navigate it, as trains or mobs running away to get help still made it perilous and unpredictable.
Thanks :0
I gotta say that traps are something I miss from DDO. Even WoW has them but they dont use them except one time in BWL suppression room...
Treasure chests are another. A bunch of mobs camped around a treasure chest is great incentive, even tho you know it has a few copper and some flasks of water in it, lol.
A lot of these experiences we've had, and have been talked about in this thread, stems from an open world and required travel.
I think added on top of this was a death penalty that stung. Knowing that if I died running through Kithicor I'd be all the way back in Freeport, naked, and with a drop in XP - I was very careful to take my time because I valued my characters life.
If it was set up more like a modern game, where you simply start back at the entrance of the zone with everything intact, a lot of the excitement and fear would have been removed. The need to group for buffs and protection would be removed. And some of the coveted skills such as summon corpse and teleport would be useless.
It's strange, but the mechanics in the original everquest are more closely aligned with DayZ than they are with current MMO's - and DayZ also happens to be the game that has given me the most excitement while simply exploring since the original EQ.
A lot of these experiences we've had, and have been talked about in this thread, stems from an open world and required travel.
I think added on top of this was a death penalty that stung. Knowing that if I died running through Kithicor I'd be all the way back in Freeport, naked, and with a drop in XP - I was very careful to take my time because I valued my characters life.
If it was set up more like a modern game, where you simply start back at the entrance of the zone with everything intact, a lot of the excitement and fear would have been removed. The need to group for buffs and protection would be removed. And some of the coveted skills such as summon corpse and teleport would be useless.
It's strange, but the mechanics in the original everquest are more closely aligned with DayZ than they are with current MMO's - and DayZ also happens to be the game that has given me the most excitement while simply exploring since the original EQ.
Yup. I think there's a lot to be learned from the mechanics of the original EQ. Things like the death penalty and corpse runs were harsh, but they had a drastic effect on the way the community was and how you played. Same with traveling. The travel time in EQ was extremely long, and that made seeking out druid and wizard friends a huge part of the game.
Same with corpse runs. They basically forced community cooperation and encouraged good behavior (GL getting help on a corpse run when you're the guy spamming racial slurs in OOC)
I honestly don't think that they need to clone EQ to get these same effects though. The harsh mechanics of EQ could be modernized to be less severe (so to not scare away players) but still be incorporated so they have the same community building effects.
Originally posted by Rusque Only if the puzzles are google-proof. Otherwise they'll just get looked up by someone in the group and that's it. No fun.
I really enjoy puzzles in single player games because I know that I won't look it up. I'll just keep trying until I solve it, but as soon as puzzles show up online, they're already solved even if it's the first time you've seen it.
THIS. A thousand times this!
You should probably cancel your internet if you think the best crafting materials/grinding spots/etc wont be on the internet once they are discovered. That is a big difference people dont associate with EQ1 releasing in 1999 and a game releasing now. You can only create so many random variables/loadouts that it eventually becomes predictible in MMORPG's and even single player games like Rogue Legacy where the layout changes every time.
This. It is impossible to make something "google proof". Back in 1999 people really didn't automatically go online and search for all the answers, well simply because they weren't there. It was more expensive to run a website, games didn't have the coverage that they do today. If you remove the map, then people will post a map online, if you have invisible walls, hidden chests, crazy mazes people will just find a way to post all that information online. I'm sure there will still be the people who want to do it without google or the internet, and that's fine. But if they are open world dungeons, you can sure expect guilds who do want to go online will have that dungeon on farm. Make it bigger, and it becomes like the cata's in Lineage 2 where people would basically call a room and farm that room all day long, and every single room is taken by two people.
I think you're correct, but part of what could help would be a general change in design philosophy. Diminishing returns is one way to reduce farming in open world dungeons. The other is a strong death penalty and high rate of failure - simply make it non-profitable to grind dungeons.
I remember in the original everquest the first raids, more often than not, ended up in failure (fairly large loss of experience, hours of lost time, etc). The reason we ran them wasn't to farm (most items were bind on acquire, and there was no auction house), but because we genuinely wanted to help our friends and guildmates progress their characters. I knew going in I was probably going to come out in the negative (as well as some dungeons which didn't even have equipment for my character) but I loved going along to try to help my cleric friend get that res stick, or to help my warrior friend get an executioners axe.
I guess what I'm trying to say is it's important what a game designs as the 'carrot'. Titles, account points, achievements, and daily's have all detracted from playing the game to have fun with friends. I personally especially loathe speed runs - it seems like you're defeating the purpose of playing the game if you want to blast through the content using every means and exploit possible. I'll be interested to see what the 'vision' for everquest next is, it should help inform us about the focus of the game and what our immediate goals will be.
If the game has a dynamic ecology, the issues from farming becomes irrelevant. If you clear a dungeon, it stays cleared until repopulated by something else that fills the vacuum.
Originally posted by Gholos All, but not jumping puzzle as GW2 PLZ
plz no "jumping puzzles" just give me the ability to scales walls.
I'd like to 3rd this. Not a fan of jumping puzzles in MMO's especially when the camera can be hit or miss with them (can I zoom in on my character and NOT see where I'm going GW2?). To be honest, if I want to do jumping style gameplay, I will just throw in super mario brothers.
Exactly, i think that jumping puzzles are not part of a fantasy world, if i want to do something like that i will play a platform, not a MMORPG. I normaly play plate classes and big races, i dont like to see my char. jumping to left and to the right wearing an heavy armor, is ridicolous.
I would not like to see in EQN other things i have seen in GW2: absurd dungeons like Super Adventure Box, stupid games like the one with crabs (cant remember the name atm), dragon ball and so on, i think that those things ruin the immersion in a fantasy world and the lore of the game.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it" -Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.
Comments
Thanks :0
I gotta say that traps are something I miss from DDO. Even WoW has them but they dont use them except one time in BWL suppression room...
Treasure chests are another. A bunch of mobs camped around a treasure chest is great incentive, even tho you know it has a few copper and some flasks of water in it, lol.
I think added on top of this was a death penalty that stung. Knowing that if I died running through Kithicor I'd be all the way back in Freeport, naked, and with a drop in XP - I was very careful to take my time because I valued my characters life.
If it was set up more like a modern game, where you simply start back at the entrance of the zone with everything intact, a lot of the excitement and fear would have been removed. The need to group for buffs and protection would be removed. And some of the coveted skills such as summon corpse and teleport would be useless.
It's strange, but the mechanics in the original everquest are more closely aligned with DayZ than they are with current MMO's - and DayZ also happens to be the game that has given me the most excitement while simply exploring since the original EQ.
Yup. I think there's a lot to be learned from the mechanics of the original EQ. Things like the death penalty and corpse runs were harsh, but they had a drastic effect on the way the community was and how you played. Same with traveling. The travel time in EQ was extremely long, and that made seeking out druid and wizard friends a huge part of the game.
Same with corpse runs. They basically forced community cooperation and encouraged good behavior (GL getting help on a corpse run when you're the guy spamming racial slurs in OOC)
I honestly don't think that they need to clone EQ to get these same effects though. The harsh mechanics of EQ could be modernized to be less severe (so to not scare away players) but still be incorporated so they have the same community building effects.
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This. It is impossible to make something "google proof". Back in 1999 people really didn't automatically go online and search for all the answers, well simply because they weren't there. It was more expensive to run a website, games didn't have the coverage that they do today. If you remove the map, then people will post a map online, if you have invisible walls, hidden chests, crazy mazes people will just find a way to post all that information online. I'm sure there will still be the people who want to do it without google or the internet, and that's fine. But if they are open world dungeons, you can sure expect guilds who do want to go online will have that dungeon on farm. Make it bigger, and it becomes like the cata's in Lineage 2 where people would basically call a room and farm that room all day long, and every single room is taken by two people.
I think you're correct, but part of what could help would be a general change in design philosophy. Diminishing returns is one way to reduce farming in open world dungeons. The other is a strong death penalty and high rate of failure - simply make it non-profitable to grind dungeons.
I remember in the original everquest the first raids, more often than not, ended up in failure (fairly large loss of experience, hours of lost time, etc). The reason we ran them wasn't to farm (most items were bind on acquire, and there was no auction house), but because we genuinely wanted to help our friends and guildmates progress their characters. I knew going in I was probably going to come out in the negative (as well as some dungeons which didn't even have equipment for my character) but I loved going along to try to help my cleric friend get that res stick, or to help my warrior friend get an executioners axe.
I guess what I'm trying to say is it's important what a game designs as the 'carrot'. Titles, account points, achievements, and daily's have all detracted from playing the game to have fun with friends. I personally especially loathe speed runs - it seems like you're defeating the purpose of playing the game if you want to blast through the content using every means and exploit possible. I'll be interested to see what the 'vision' for everquest next is, it should help inform us about the focus of the game and what our immediate goals will be.
Exactly, i think that jumping puzzles are not part of a fantasy world, if i want to do something like that i will play a platform, not a MMORPG. I normaly play plate classes and big races, i dont like to see my char. jumping to left and to the right wearing an heavy armor, is ridicolous.
I would not like to see in EQN other things i have seen in GW2: absurd dungeons like Super Adventure Box, stupid games like the one with crabs (cant remember the name atm), dragon ball and so on, i think that those things ruin the immersion in a fantasy world and the lore of the game.
"Brute force not work? It because you not use enought of it"
-Karg, Ogryn Bone'ead.