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Were sheep, developers decide what we like.

page975page975 Scranton, PAPosts: 312Member

Games.  I call them games because most are not mmos. People will argue the definition of what an mmo is, I DON'T CARE ABOUT THIS ARGUEMENT.....We now have two styles :

 

Community style ( mmo )

- Open world, no dungeon finders, free to do what you like, no mega servers or phasing, most of all hard where you need others. After all where are these people asking for easy ?......Are moms really calling Blizzard saying their 5 year old would like easy ?. Come on developers are making this crap up to make you rush to the next expantion....were sheep believing this. It's all about marketing.

 

Games you play with others around you ( non-mmo )

- Zoned, carrot on a stick, going from one quest hub to the next, follow a leaner path, smart servers that are not smart for community building. Instant fun videoing.

 

 

Here is where I disagree with 90% of the people on this site. They call " Community style " old school. However Community style was never expanded upon ( made better ). Instead Developers took it upon them selfs to decide what is good and new.

Players were lead like sheep down this path and scratch their heads trying to figure out why they jump from one game to the next. It does not matter who makes the game or graphics,abilities,classes, factions, PvP, PvE end game none of it. PEOPLE WILL NOT STAY IF ITS NOT MADE FOR A COMMUNITY.....Community is the ONLY thing that would make a player of an mmo log in five months down the road. 

 

I'm playing Darkfall UW right now. This MMO is going strong right now, even the boards here are very active.

Is the game great ?...No........It has a lot of missing features, it has a major harvesting and crafting grind, its hard to compete in PvP with the higher end players until you play hard core for weeks to be the least bit completive.

So why is this mmo going strong with so many flaws ?.....Because, it's the only real mmo out their !.....You go where you feel, You don't know what you would run into each time you log in.  Most of all you REALLY PLAY WITH A COMMUNITY.

We would have a WoW killer if a developer would step back and think, really think of what would make a long standing mmo PvE PvP instead of a non community, full of feature carrot on a stick crap of a game like every game on the list.

 

 

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Comments

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,779Member Uncommon

    no developer decide what i like. I support a game if i like it and deem it worthy of my money. Very few of them these past few years are worthy of  seeing my wallet opening to them, but i am not a developer to make the game i would love eternally. So i have to stick with supporting the very few games i like until something better (and different) comes out. As long as i like it and enjoy playing it, ill support it. As soon as it feels like a chore, im out. If its faceroll easy, im also out unless i can find a way to make it challenging for myself.

    image
  • BjelarBjelar RullumpPosts: 384Member

    I completely disagree.

    Developers have got access to numbers. Numbers don't lie. Players are drawn to solo-content like flies. PvPers go to great lenghts to avoid PvP. If players CAN grind stuff for months they WILL.

     

    I think games would be so much better if developers stopped listening to what players SAY they want, and do what the numbers tell them players DO do. 

     

    And to some extent it does make sense. If I feel extra social one day, I go to the pub. I meet up with friends real life. To be painfully honest, I don't think I have ever considered gameing and MMOs to be a social activity. I play computer games when I don't feel very social, or when my friends are too busy to go to the pub.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,553Member Uncommon

    You have it backwards - we are telling developers what we want and they in turn create it by popular demand.

    Key word is popular, as in majority.

    Majority want MMO *games* not alternate life online requiring another 40+ hours a week spent in game.

    Its about convenience - example - dungeon finders, most disliked spendig 30min or more just putring a group together, or phasing - done to improve performance, heck even putting in 1000s of quests - all these took additional work to program and implement, it would have been much easier for devs to leave them out and do it the old way.

    So why did Dev studios spend all the extra time adding features - because the majority wanted them, wanted convenience, they wanted a game to be played for a short period.

     

    The Dev studios are adjusting to the ever changing market, as the majority swing back to more sandbox gameplay, this is why you see more sandbox elements added to upcoming games.

    Games will continue to shape shift as the players wants and needs evolve.

    There is not a single major MMORPG that gets developed without market research supporting that it will be viable in the market, devs don't sit around and say - well we have $50 million, let's throw a game together - it doesn't happen like that, every game has to be greenlit before it gets OK for major funding.

     

     

     

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid hell, NJPosts: 6,779Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bjelar

    I think games would be so much better if developers stopped listening to what players SAY they want, and do what the numbers tell them players DO do. 

     

    Activision follows their numbers (like you say) and what do we have? the same CoD every year because thats what people buy.

    I think big publishers have the worst influence over developers making bad games. Not the players.

    image
  • Athena_StarfireAthena_Starfire AucklandPosts: 195Member Uncommon

    Well, I know what I like, I try most the new MMO's then I go back to working on my NWN1 World.

    The will never be another game like it.

     

     

  • DocBrodyDocBrody EldridgePosts: 1,820Member
    No they are scared of being "niche"

    they rather like to make games "for everyone", then go F2P and shut down
  • page975page975 Scranton, PAPosts: 312Member

    WoW : 

    Easy, don't need others until end game.

    Dungeon finder, don't need others.

     

    Rift :

    Quest hubs, Cant play with others because you have to match each other quest for quest in a carrot on a stick fashion, until end game.

     

    Guild Wars 2 :

    Quest hub, carrot on a stick

    Auto grouping

    Smart servers, but you will eventually make it to your server, but don't make any sudden moves because your off your server again.

     

    D&D Online, LOTRO, EQ2, Neverwinter :

    F2P....Who has purchased what package ? who is gimped ?....I can't play with you, you will not spend a penny.

     

    Defiance :

    The chat is screwed up, best to play by yourself anyway after all it's auto grouping....Developers don't care anyway.

     

    Aion :

    They actually drop popcorn on the ground where to go next !

     

    Warhammer :

    Remember that mess, remember the marketing. RvR, yet they game all the exp to scenarios leaving RvR and the open world a ghost town.

     

    Wildstar :

    They are keeping the cash shop a secret....Why ?

     

    I could sit here all day with every game ( most are not mmos ). something in common NOT BUILT FOR COMMUNITY !

     

  • GatlanGatlan Elkton, FLPosts: 120Member Uncommon

    .image

    weresheep

  • Quazal.AQuazal.A PrestonPosts: 498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by page975

    So why is this mmo going strong with so many flaws ?.....Because, it's the only real mmo out their !.....You go where you feel, You don't know what you would run into each time you log in.  Most of all you REALLY PLAY WITH A COMMUNITY.

     

    The rest of your post made my eyes glaze over.. so meh,

    But in terms of this you are saying the UO is only game were community counts, have you never seen / tried / played (and by play i mean more than the 14/21 day trial) EvE Online

    This game is built on what the players want, around 50% of the structure of the game has been developed from player ideas if this is not community gaming i have no idea what your expecting

    Eve has a council that deals directly with the developers, heck CCP pay for them to go to Iceland (from anywhere in the world they live) to meet face to face to discuss how the game will be moved, there have been a few instances where the council has thrown out some ideas from these meetings and CCP has followed this.

    If you really dont believe me google "monoclegate Eve online" and see the power that players have in EvE.

    So please come back when you have done more research, because even with my limited (about 15-20 games) volume of games played i know 1 other straight away, im sure there are other , smaller/more focussed mmo out there that are also the same

    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
    Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  • InFlamestwoInFlamestwo HindPosts: 662Member
    Most developers give the majority what they want.

    image

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,553Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by InFlamestwo
    Most developers give the majority what they want.

    True and to the point. 

    MMORPGs average cost is $50+ million (AAA game) - catering to 30,000 players is not gonna work, basic economics.

     

     

  • ScivaSciva NonePosts: 299Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by page975

    Guild Wars 2 :

    Quest hub, carrot on a stick

    Auto grouping

    Smart servers, but you will eventually make it to your server, but don't make any sudden moves because your off your server again

    You either haven't played GW2 or have no idea what you're talking about. There are no quest hubs, there are no carrots on a stick, the community comes together for meta events (gasp! which is a good thing). Maybe if sandbox communities were not full of 40 year old men acting like 12 year old chavs more people would play

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    You have it backwards - we are telling developers what we want and they in turn create it by popular demand.

    Key word is popular, as in majority.

    Majority want MMO *games* not alternate life online requiring another 40+ hours a week spent in game.

    Its about convenience - example - dungeon finders, most disliked spendig 30min or more just putring a group together, or phasing - done to improve performance, heck even putting in 1000s of quests - all these took additional work to program and implement, it would have been much easier for devs to leave them out and do it the old way.

    So why did Dev studios spend all the extra time adding features - because the majority wanted them, wanted convenience, they wanted a game to be played for a short period.

     

    The Dev studios are adjusting to the ever changing market, as the majority swing back to more sandbox gameplay, this is why you see more sandbox elements added to upcoming games.

    Games will continue to shape shift as the players wants and needs evolve.

    There is not a single major MMORPG that gets developed without market research supporting that it will be viable in the market, devs don't sit around and say - well we have $50 million, let's throw a game together - it doesn't happen like that, every game has to be greenlit before it gets OK for major funding.

    A rather accurate overview of how it all works.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • madazzmadazz A town, ONPosts: 1,564Member Uncommon

    I am responding to the title due to its absurdity.

    I 100% disagree with you. The problem with MMO's is developers are listening to what people want. They aren't making a game that they think will be engaging. They aren't being artistic or creative. Instead, they are following guidelines set out by a shit-ton of whiners on forums that end up manifested in games that are run of the mill clone copies of one another. 

    You can't please everybody. And that is the developers problem. If developers could choose what players liked then MMO's wouldn't be losing players/shutting down, and I sure as hell would be active in one right now.

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bjelar

    I completely disagree.

    Developers have got access to numbers. Numbers don't lie. Players are drawn to solo-content like flies. PvPers go to great lenghts to avoid PvP. If players CAN grind stuff for months they WILL.

     

    I think games would be so much better if developers stopped listening to what players SAY they want, and do what the numbers tell them players DO do. 

     

    And to some extent it does make sense. If I feel extra social one day, I go to the pub. I meet up with friends real life. To be painfully honest, I don't think I have ever considered gameing and MMOs to be a social activity. I play computer games when I don't feel very social, or when my friends are too busy to go to the pub.

    This.

    Developers have track data on what players do. You have to ask yourself, why a developer would willing look at the data, see what most of the players are doing and then ignore that information completely in order to work on a portion of the game very few players are interested in.

     

  • page975page975 Scranton, PAPosts: 312Member
    Originally posted by madazz

    I am responding to the title due to its absurdity.

    I 100% disagree with you. The problem with MMO's is developers are listening to what people want. They aren't making a game that they think will be engaging. They aren't being artistic or creative. Instead, they are following guidelines set out by a shit-ton of whiners on forums that end up manifested in games that are run of the mill clone copies of one another. 

    You can't please everybody. And that is the developers problem. If developers could choose what players liked then MMO's wouldn't be losing players/shutting down, and I sure as hell would be active in one right now.

    I 100% disagree with you.  They are giving us what they want and telling us players asked for it.

    - Do you ask for easy ?....Do you know anyone that does ?

    - Do you ask for Mega servers and copies of realms, if it effects the community ?

    - Do you ask for crazy out of hand F2P, P2W and heavy cash shops ?....well, maybe you are one of the totally free players that jumped on the mmo band wagon because its one of the only ways to get something for free !

     

    Yet we see thousands of post, post after post of how everyone hates every mmo......... Are you so blind to not know that developers are telling you how to play ? 

     

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon

    Lol, but for a MMORPG it's stupid to not building for the long term vs. building for what players want now.

     

    Its like find out what's the most desired food and then serve this exclusively.  Not only would we have a bad diet we'd be tired of eating the same crap.  Essentially this is what MMORPG's are.  

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Rohnert Park, CAPosts: 848Member

    We're

     

     

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    Originally posted by page975
    Originally posted by madazz

    I am responding to the title due to its absurdity.

    I 100% disagree with you. The problem with MMO's is developers are listening to what people want. They aren't making a game that they think will be engaging. They aren't being artistic or creative. Instead, they are following guidelines set out by a shit-ton of whiners on forums that end up manifested in games that are run of the mill clone copies of one another. 

    You can't please everybody. And that is the developers problem. If developers could choose what players liked then MMO's wouldn't be losing players/shutting down, and I sure as hell would be active in one right now.

    I 100% disagree with you.  They are giving us what they want and telling us players asked for it.

    - Do you ask for easy ?....Do you know anyone that does ?

    - Do you ask for Mega servers and copies of realms, if it effects the community ?

    - Do you ask for crazy out of hand F2P, P2W and heavy cash shops ?....well, maybe you are one of the totally free players that jumped on the mmo band wagon because its one of the only ways to get something for free !

     

    Yet we see thousands of post, post after post of how everyone hates every mmo......... Are you so blind to not know that developers are telling you how to play ? 

     

    Do you pay for things you don't want ? do you play games you don't like ?

    they're not forcing anyone to do anything. Like ppl have told you those features are in games because people are paying for them. If no one liked them and it was all the devs forcing it on people...the games would be shut down.

    People ask for easy by playing longer and paying longer for games that are. They ask for it by quitting games that aren't. You don't have to say you want something...no one cares what you say. Players "talk" with their wallet and their wallet says people enjoy winning.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,752Member Uncommon
    Theres little doubt that a high percentage of gamers are sheep...They go where other sheep go and follow along.....Why do you think there are so many threads on this site asking "What game has a high population?"......This is why so many of the MMOs are dumbed down to a 5 year olds level also.
  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    As others have said big game companies give us what their research and feedback has told them the majority want.You and I and others here can keep arguing till r blue in the face about community driven worlds or whatever we personally believe MMORPGs should be.In then end publishers will make developers deliver games they believe have the broadest appeal get the most sales.

    MMOs of AAA quality are expensive to make  and the publishers that can afford these budgets usually have investors to answer to so are not gonna risk their investment on niche ideas or unproven feedback.SO if your looking for something to really blame  for the lack of imagination and ideas in MMOs today look no further than our screwed up stock exchange economy where making a profit isn't enough you have to make more profit than you previously did or it's seen as a loss which will downgrade your stock and thus lead to REAL losses.

  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Theres little doubt that a high percentage of gamers are sheep...They go where other sheep go and follow along.....Why do you think there are so many threads on this site asking "What game has a high population?"......This is why so many of the MMOs are dumbed down to a 5 year olds level also.

    This and the OPs opening argument always read to me like this :

    People who don't like exactly what I like = Sheep.

    I say that as someone who is not currently playing an MMO or likes what's out there currently.

  • Electro057Electro057 Guelph, ONPosts: 658Member
    Weresheep, one of the deadliest garden capering beasts. Second only to the Wererabbit! Be sure to be vaccinated against these lame forms of Zoanthropy.

    --Custom Rig: Pyraxis---
    NZXT Phantom 410 Case
    Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz
    Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard
    Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0
    Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB

  • STYNKFYSTSTYNKFYST Sacramento, CAPosts: 290Member
    Originally posted by page975

    WoW : 

    Easy, don't need others until end game.

    Dungeon finder, don't need others.

     

    Rift :

    Quest hubs, Cant play with others because you have to match each other quest for quest in a carrot on a stick fashion, until end game.

     

    Guild Wars 2 :

    Quest hub, carrot on a stick

    Auto grouping

    Smart servers, but you will eventually make it to your server, but don't make any sudden moves because your off your server again.

     

    D&D Online, LOTRO, EQ2, Neverwinter :

    F2P....Who has purchased what package ? who is gimped ?....I can't play with you, you will not spend a penny.

     

    Defiance :

    The chat is screwed up, best to play by yourself anyway after all it's auto grouping....Developers don't care anyway.

     

    Aion :

    They actually drop popcorn on the ground where to go next !

     

    Warhammer :

    Remember that mess, remember the marketing. RvR, yet they game all the exp to scenarios leaving RvR and the open world a ghost town.

     

    Wildstar :

    They are keeping the cash shop a secret....Why ?

     

    I could sit here all day with every game ( most are not mmos ). something in common NOT BUILT FOR COMMUNITY !

     

    You have opinions...that's for sure. But they seem so very slanted IMO.

     

    "Guild Wars 2 :

    Quest hub, carrot on a stick

    Auto grouping

    Smart servers, but you will eventually make it to your server, but don't make any sudden moves because your off your server again."

     

    Huh?

    No quest hub. You go around helping areas. Communities of ppl. You don't ever even have to talk to anyone to get them done.

    Auto grouping? You mean how they improved the experience by letting everyone get some credit for participating? No more camping for special mobs?

    Smart servers? Your server? Sudden moves? Not even sure what you are on about here....

    In fact, I guess I just don't even get your point. If you think the majority of players are sheep....I got news for ya. It aint so...

  • SoulStainSoulStain Tampa, FLPosts: 202Member
    Originally posted by Roderan

    .image

    weresheep

    LOL!!! I was going to do the same thing.

    If I were a Weresheep  I would regularly wash and use conditioner after I turn . Then I would shave myself , turn back to human form and sell my accumulated bounty of soft , unusually silky wool  every weekend at the market.

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