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Housing system is REALLY bad, needs to change

muchavezmuchavez asdf, VAPosts: 200Member

So apparently the way housing works is you bid for a housing spot.  That's not bad, however after 3 moths, even if you have been paying rent your house goes up for bid and if someone outbids you your house gets destroyed and all your assets get sent to your bank.  This seems really lame.  I want to have a long term house, not one that gets demolished every 3 months.  Almost every other mmo that has housing (archeage, darkfall, the repopulation, xsyon, wurm) lets you keep your house if you pay rent/upkeep.

I am hoping I am just mistaken here and someone can straighten this out for me.  I was really excited for this game but their housing system is a complete turn off

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Comments

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon

    sounds reasonable to me.

    if the owner wants to do a 3 month lease and his house is worth 10x what you are paying at the end of the 3 months I wouldn't blame him if he booted you for the rich guy.

    edit: i guess what i'm trying to say is.  wanting permanent things is normal but that doesn't always work well given a certain economic context. 

  • muchavezmuchavez asdf, VAPosts: 200Member
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

    sounds reasonable to me.

    if the owner wants to do a 3 month lease and his house is worth 10x what you are paying at the end of the 3 months I wouldn't blame him if he booted you for the rich guy.

    But I am the owner, I just bought the house.  If i am paying upkeep it shouldn't be up for grabs in 3 months regardless.  Plus all the work I put into it is now gone.

    I don't see why they wouldn't just do a similar setup like every other mmo that has housing where you pick a spot and pay upkeep.

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by muchavez
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

    sounds reasonable to me.

    if the owner wants to do a 3 month lease and his house is worth 10x what you are paying at the end of the 3 months I wouldn't blame him if he booted you for the rich guy.

    But I am the owner, I just bought the house.  If i am paying upkeep it shouldn't be up for grabs in 3 months regardless.  Plus all the work I put into it is now gone.

    I don't see why they wouldn't just do a similar setup like every other mmo that has housing where you pick a spot and pay upkeep.

     

    it sounds to me like you're a renter not an owner.  maybe they need to change their language.

  • muchavezmuchavez asdf, VAPosts: 200Member
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by muchavez
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn

    sounds reasonable to me.

    if the owner wants to do a 3 month lease and his house is worth 10x what you are paying at the end of the 3 months I wouldn't blame him if he booted you for the rich guy.

    But I am the owner, I just bought the house.  If i am paying upkeep it shouldn't be up for grabs in 3 months regardless.  Plus all the work I put into it is now gone.

    I don't see why they wouldn't just do a similar setup like every other mmo that has housing where you pick a spot and pay upkeep.

     

    it sounds to me like you're a renter not an owner.  maybe they need to change their language.

    I hope the offer permanent housing, what they have now could this could also be used as a form of greifing, dont like someone outbid him with 20 people so his house gets destroyed.

    The only way I would want my house getting destroyed is through pvp, not RMT.

    I just don't see why they don't use the system thats already been proven to work better.

  • benseinebenseine HaarlemPosts: 243Member
    Originally posted by muchavez

    So apparently the way housing works is you bid for a housing spot.  That's not bad, however after 3 moths, even if you have been paying rent your house goes up for bid and if someone outbids you your house gets destroyed and all your assets get sent to your bank.  This seems really lame.  I want to have a long term house, not one that gets demolished every 3 months.  Almost every other mmo that has housing (archeage, darkfall, the repopulation, xsyon, wurm) lets you keep your house if you pay rent/upkeep.I am hoping I am just mistaken here and someone can straighten this out for me.  I was really excited for this game but their housing system is a complete turn off

     

    If I was them I would add an option to the cashshop so you could extent that bidding for another 3 months. And so adding a realestate market to their game, giving them a steady income without making the game pay to win. If you wanna own in pvp or pve you can for free. Own a house or more you buy it in yhe cashshop.
    Maybe they've planned it already but cashshop isn't inplemented yet, who knows :)
  • ShauneepeakShauneepeak Biddeford, MEPosts: 421Member
    Originally posted by muchavez

    So apparently the way housing works is you bid for a housing spot.  That's not bad, however after 3 moths, even if you have been paying rent your house goes up for bid and if someone outbids you your house gets destroyed and all your assets get sent to your bank.  This seems really lame.  I want to have a long term house, not one that gets demolished every 3 months.  Almost every other mmo that has housing (archeage, darkfall, the repopulation, xsyon, wurm) lets you keep your house if you pay rent/upkeep.

    I am hoping I am just mistaken here and someone can straighten this out for me.  I was really excited for this game but their housing system is a complete turn off

    Um... there is no rent it's one lump payment and it does not get destroyed the house remains exactly how it is right where it is they're premade houses you don't change anything about them except the furniture.

    Pearl Abyss has also stated that they want the houses to be a luxury not a necessity if you want a house you better work your ass off and not get lazy soon as you purchase one that is the whole point of the 3 month auction if you save up to buy some massive mansion in the best part of the city but then do nothing to try and keep the house it sort of makes sense that you would lose it to someone who actually makes enough money too maintain it every 3 months.

  • muchavezmuchavez asdf, VAPosts: 200Member
    Originally posted by Shauneepeak
    Originally posted by muchavez

    So apparently the way housing works is you bid for a housing spot.  That's not bad, however after 3 moths, even if you have been paying rent your house goes up for bid and if someone outbids you your house gets destroyed and all your assets get sent to your bank.  This seems really lame.  I want to have a long term house, not one that gets demolished every 3 months.  Almost every other mmo that has housing (archeage, darkfall, the repopulation, xsyon, wurm) lets you keep your house if you pay rent/upkeep.

    I am hoping I am just mistaken here and someone can straighten this out for me.  I was really excited for this game but their housing system is a complete turn off

    Um... there is no rent it's one lump payment and it does not get destroyed the house remains exactly how it is right where it is they're premade houses you don't change anything about them except the furniture.

    Pearl Abyss has also stated that they want the houses to be a luxury not a necessity if you want a house you better work your ass off and not get lazy soon as you purchase one that is the whole point of the 3 month auction if you save up to buy some massive mansion in the best part of the city but then do nothing to try and keep the house it sort of makes sense that you would lose it to someone who actually makes enough money too maintain it every 3 months.

    Oh, that's a shame so we cant actually change the house in any way other than decorations?  I guess we wont lose much then, but we also wont be able to create much either.

    Also, i think there is a fault in your logic, I don't mind working (lol video game) a long time in order to hold up a mansion.  Archeage and several other MMOs accomplish this by charging more upkeep on the size of the house per month.  What I don't like is my house going up for grabs regardless in 3 weeks.

    You're going to find most people wont like this system as its the same thing as wow's old honor system where only people who play 16 hours a day or (since this game will be F2P) RMT will have access to housing.

    Why should these 2 groups of people be the only ones allowed to have houses?

    Every other mmorpg out there that currently does player housing does the tried and true method of paying upkeep per month or some variation.  None of them make you lose your house after a set amount of time regardless. 

  • ArakaziArakazi OxfordPosts: 889Member
    I don't mind it, there are practical reasons behind it. If a player leaves a game for months with no intention of coming back it will be in better hands with a player that's actually playing the game. It's might be a good cash sink for the game, which will be good for the overall economy. Plus I like the idea that the housing isn't in some instance on floating islands way up in the sky, but actually in a city. Hopefully they are actually cities with player owned houses and shops rather than some glorified square with a few shops and a couple of NPC's with exclamation marks above their heads.
  • RavenRaven LondonPosts: 1,974Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arakazi
    I don't mind it, there are practical reasons behind it. If a player leaves a game for months with no intention of coming back it will be in better hands with a player that's actually playing the game. It's might be a good cash sink for the game, which will be good for the overall economy. Plus I like the idea that the housing isn't in some instance on floating islands way up in the sky, but actually in a city. Hopefully they are actually cities with player owned houses and shops rather than some glorified square with a few shops and a couple of NPC's with exclamation marks above their heads.

    But if you had to pay upkeep for it, it will eventually run out if you dont play the game and the house could go back to auction, so its not like it could be abandoned forever, what this will actually stop is houses becoming a madly expensive commodity that rarely changes hands, like the clan halls in Lineage 2, where a handful of people have owned clan halls since like forever, and  if by some miracle it goes on the market someone from that same pool of people will just bid the maximum amount of money for it ( which is a ridiculous amount ).

    Saying that I wouldnt be surprised if they allow construction outside of cities where you will be able to build your own house and customize it, it seems this is just a parallel system, which is pretty sweet because it gives a purpose to all of the "show homes" you get in an MMORPG. If the houses are 1:1 and looking at the average size of cities in fantasy RPGs  and the number of them, im guessing there might be a reasonable number of homes for people that save up for them.

    image

  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 956Member Uncommon

    1. It's a new feature.  Every game tries to come up with new stuff.  Either so they aren't called a WoW clone, or so they aren't sued for IP copy write infringement.

    2. Housing is one of those vanity items that PvP players tolerate being in the cash shop.

    3. You are free to play or not play.  Your are free to attempt to make change by talking about the feature.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.

  • nikobellicnikobellic bangkokPosts: 10Member

    I am sure that the devs are not explaining this correctly. so far it does NOT look like a "player housing system", it is rather a "player rental of non-player house/shop system".

    a player house is when you can store your items permanently, as long as you keep upkeep. also it suggests that the house would be built by the player.

    well, it looks like the game will NOT have such player houses, they just want the town to be maintained by players. it's a good idea to have most town buildings ran by players, i admit, but don't mix this with player housing.

    sure some players would be happy to fight for a temporary house that gives them some better status and popularity in the game, but all player would love to have their own permanent houses as well. if the devs worry that players may make the game ugly by placing houses all over the map they should choose a way to control the permited zones, which is not hard at all - the ugliest swamp or a distant part of the desert would still be a million times better than nothing.

     

    i am a SWG hardcore veteran and i can say that that was the only true house system in a mmorpg ever. i've spent maybe at least 4-5 hours every week just decorating my houses (in 5 years) lol.. i know - i'm a nerd... but my houses trully represented me, most of my achievements, class, and so much more..

     

  • SawlstoneSawlstone barrie, ONPosts: 301Member
    I will never play/buy a game that offers player housing but puts such a restriction like this on it. It'd be like moving to England.
  • draugadandraugadan Reisterstown, MDPosts: 3Member
    This game had me a bit interested until I heard about the housing concept.  Sillyness like this will make me avoid a game.  I know there are hard core players that love systems like this so they can prove how awesome they are.  It also will allow powerful guilds to show how awesome they are.  Frankly I don't care about stuff like that.  Meh... maybe not the game for me.
  • Sorien88Sorien88 , ALPosts: 15Member
    Personally I like the idea.. The problem with current mmo's is that everything is safe you have your [mod edit] instanced house ill take this.
  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sorien88
    Personally I like the idea.. The problem with current mmo's is that everything is safe you have your [mod edit] instanced house ill take this.

    what if you lived in a house for 2 years and some kid you kill in pvp got all his buddy's to out bid you the next time the auction happened?

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • alyosha17alyosha17 ergftmjhkPosts: 156Member

    Every other mmorpg out there that currently does player housing does the tried and true method of paying upkeep per month or some variation.  None of them make you lose your house after a set amount of time regardless. 

    They only have a limited amount of houses though.  So how do you deal with this scarcity of resources while also making it fair to everyone?

    It's unfair if it's on  a first come/first serve basis because then people can sit on a house and pay rent almost indefinitely, supposing they had enough money in their coffers to keep the rent up, even well after they've quit playing.

    The developers have said that they want to make the housing open-world (as opposed to instanced) and as such, they can only create so many houses with the manpower they have at their disposal, development-wise.  With these factors in mind, that is limited house numbers, and being non-instanced, it's only logical that the decision they've chosen is the optimal one purely in terms of fairness. 

    This way everyone has a shot at getting a house with the limited amount available.  In a perfect world, there would be enough houses for everyone, but you know, they can only do so much.

  • BatCakezBatCakez None O''ya Business, CAPosts: 127Member
    Guess you'll be moving around a lot, eh? I know what you mean though, it's good to come 'home' to your little piece of privilege and privacy after a long day of adventuring. That's something I loved about UO and EQ2. You cannot grow attached to it if you aren't there very long. EQ2 had renting, and you could still stay in it. Just poor implementation of the housing system, IMHO. It indicates to me that they don't really know how to do it right.
  • alyosha17alyosha17 ergftmjhkPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by BatCakez
    Guess you'll be moving around a lot, eh? I know what you mean though, it's good to come 'home' to your little piece of privilege and privacy after a long day of adventuring. That's something I loved about UO and EQ2. You cannot grow attached to it if you aren't there very long. EQ2 had renting, and you could still stay in it. Just poor implementation of the housing system, IMHO. It indicates to me that they don't really know how to do it right.

    But what do you think the alternative is? 

     

    People against Black Desert's decision need to realise that the alternative is worse.  Would you people rather that someone buys a house in a prime location of the game, then quit, and then have nobody ever be able to use the house thereafter?

     

    You might think that Pearl Abyss should at least let you keep your house if you're an active player or maintaining upkeep payments.  However, what happens to those people who land-grab early on in the game's life for relatively cheap prices?  Then it's increasingly unfair for everyone else who won't have access to housing as the game matures, as those with houses continue to pay their cheap rent and never put them on the market, leaving everyone else to squabble for the few houses to come on the market every now and then.

     

    The point is: the auction system allows people to participate in the market fairly, rather than on a first-come/first-serve basis.

     

    Also, I think with more expansions, there will be more housing added to the game to the point where there's a surplus.  At that point, the housing system will become more appealing to people who don't like competition because it will be easier to secure a house for the desired duration (i.e. indefinitely). 

     

    Also, 3 months is a long time when you think about it anyway.  Personally, I really like the fact that in Black Desert you can have a home in the open game world even if you have to compete with others to secure it.  The issue with games like ArcheAge (where this is also possible) is that the housing that can be built by players does not compare to that made by developers.  So until such a time as player-placed housing can emulate developer-placed housing, then I would rather go with Black Desert's systems, despite its limitations.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    Anyone that's played a game with non-instanced player housing knows there has to be a way to get rid of houses people don't use anymore. The monthly payment thing doesn't work because the cost is never enough to deter people from dumping multiple years worth of money into it. And if it is it becomes a job to even own a house instead of something fun to have in a game.

    I guess a fair solution would be to make it so you can't put more then 3 months rent into a house so people who quit no matter how much money they had can't hold a spot past 3 months time.

    The auction system they're putting in does bring some competition into the market though. That could make things interesting. I do hope the calls of " I'll never play a game that doesn't do things like everyone else does " falls on deaf ears from the devs. It's a sad truth of mmos that everyone complains about games all being the same but try and change anything and you get a riot.

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,544Member Uncommon

     

    This has actually made me question why I was looking forward to the game.  It made me realize that I was only interested due to the housing system more so than anything else.  Therefore if there's no guaranteed way to maintain one's house (either through hard work or something else), then I will likely not be playing.

     

    The possibility to troll someone by getting one's friends or guild to bid on something conjointly seems to destroy the core appeal that I had for the game as a whole.  Though as I mentioned previously, it seems that my interest was purely shallow to begin with and it's just a case of seeing how this turns out and what other systems are offered to curtail both my fears and assumptions.

     

    If I know some people have it out for me then I won't likely even try to earn enough money to maintain my plot of land.  Waste of time and energy and it will just become a job.  If I keep my housing a secret, then there's no use as you won't be able to show it to your friends, and people will likely see what area you're in and follow you around to find out anyway.

     

    I enjoyed the Ultima Online setting whereby you had to refresh your house frequently by just clicking on the doors when you logged in. 

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • Kuro1nKuro1n GothenburgPosts: 771Member

    We do not know the reasoning behind this yet, and don't judge before you try it out. There might be some point to this system although it sounds a bit odd.

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Ul''dah, CAPosts: 1,544Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuro1n

    We do not know the reasoning behind this yet, and don't judge before you try it out. There might be some point to this system although it sounds a bit odd.

     

    It's kind've funny as I imagine those who have the houses will want some way to keep them, while those who don't will want some way to get them.  The idea of renting isn't exactly the most enticing thing to me as a whole.  Though if they implemented a way to ensure everyone has a chance regardless of when they decided to play... Well, okay.  It will just make a lot of people who intended to play it hardcore from the start and secure land to probably not even bother -- which may actually have some benefits as well as potentially losing that hardcore demographic that plays games religiously.

     

    I'd imagine important plots of land such as mansions or castles or places in popular towns will have renting systems.  Hopefully some outlying places will have more permanent solutions akin to games like Ultima Online.  Maybe they'll even do as someone suggested and make the most valuable real estate be held by cash shop purchases or whatnot.  Who knows, though either way we're not entering territory that could put people off irregardless of their reasons.

     

    Maybe they'll even release instanced neighborhood housing for those want something permanent while maintaining the overworld renting system for those who want something that isn't instanced and in a town.  The place where the elite of the server might congregate and show their status by winning bids.

    When faced with strife or discontent, the true nature of a man is brought forth. It is then when we see the character of the individual. It is then we are able to tell if he is mature enough to grin and bare it, or subject his fellow man to his complaints and woes.

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,869Member Uncommon

    This system was talked about in ArcheAge but it had nothing to do with housing. It was the system they planned to use for PvP targets.

    You could bid on a PvP target claim on your own plot as an option to protect assets.

     

    I don't see it working on general housing. One it tells me they aren't going to have enough lots to fill needs and that in itself is just a stupid idea. Creating competition for the sake of competition has a side effect. It creates a throttle on population. I don't think BP want to throttle their player base right out of the gate.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    WTF that sounds terrible!

  • alyosha17alyosha17 ergftmjhkPosts: 156Member
    Originally posted by free2play

    This system was talked about in ArcheAge but it had nothing to do with housing. It was the system they planned to use for PvP targets.

    You could bid on a PvP target claim on your own plot as an option to protect assets.

     

    I don't see it working on general housing. One it tells me they aren't going to have enough lots to fill needs and that in itself is just a stupid idea. Creating competition for the sake of competition has a side effect. It creates a throttle on population. I don't think BP want to throttle their player base right out of the gate.

    Would you rather they make instanced housing then?  That's basically the only alternative for Pearl Abyss.

     

    You act like they have infinite resources to make enough houses for every person who plays the game.  Did you ever think that they are an indie startup and can't do that?

     

    Sometimes you have to compromise.  At launch they expect there to be enough houses for half the population.  As the game grows and they add more cities, they will inevitably add more houses to decrease the competition.

     

    Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.  And if this is the alternative to instanced housing, then I would rather have this.

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