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Permadeath in Star Citizen! Yup, this game will be hardcore!

2

Comments

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    Since characters in the game are mere cosmetic entities, or so they claim, I guess it would be fine for perma death of that character. However, there needs to be a balance between being realistic and being fun. 

    I dont find Eve combat very fun because, if you die, you lose ALOT of time doing mindnumbing ISK gathering activities. For some ships you lose only the time to get your ship back together, which could be anything from 10 to 30 minutes of flying around to get the parts.

    However if you lose a T2 Battleship, you are looking at weeks, if not months of time to recouperate the cost. That is NOT fun and I hope Star Citizen does not go that route. Because then only the people who spend every waking hour playing the game will be able to enjoy the most powerful ships or you would have to spend hundreds of euro/dollars every month to replace all those ships. Again NOT fun.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,447Member Uncommon

    It is not really perma death and is imo just a cheap copy of Eve.I call it cheap not because it does it worse than Eve but cheap because it is still copying the same basic idea.Insurance is an Eve idea,why go the EXACT same route?

    Ejecting from your ship out into space,how on earth would you actually survive or make it anywhere with no engine or propulsion method.He basically  talked up a storm for several paragraphs just to say you COULD die but probably won't and even your ship will be replaced,so ya just like Eve and really you lose nothing  dependent on how costly insurance is.I see it as a really bad design and one that could probably recreate the very blemish Eve has  and that is RMT .

    Furthermore once you have that SYSTEM in place that  either encourages a ton of RMT or done via cash shop,you have now ruined the entire game economy again points finger at Eve.

    This also points again to a copy of Eve because it sounds like the ONLY combat and ONLY REAL character you have is your ship.So your player  can't be killed on any planet or anywhere outside of the ship.There goes that long speech about immersion he was building towards.

    Simple truth about this type of game is it could be an absolute great game to play and even i would paly it IF it was done right.The other simple fact is that this type of game is like building two games in one,first the ship universe and content and then the needed support  content that proves you are actually a player and not just a ship avatar.

    I am a STRONG believer in that if you can't do a genre or game properly,you should not be doing it at all,otherwise it is just more F2p spam on an already over saturated market.I want to start seeing quality games that push the envelope and really open some eyes.A good solid game would bring players from all genres and all aspects of gaming if it were just done right.


    Samoan Diamond

  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Sounds really neat to me.  But yeah, it's a well thought out work-around to permadeath, not really permadeath.  I mean, according to your character's story it surely is, but functionally.. you lose faction standing and resources.
  • redcappredcapp brook, NYPosts: 722Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    It is not really perma death and is imo just a cheap copy of Eve.I call it cheap not because it does it worse than Eve but cheap because it is still copying the same basic idea.Insurance is an Eve idea,why go the EXACT same route?

    Ejecting from your ship out into space,how on earth would you actually survive or make it anywhere with no engine or propulsion method.He basically  talked up a storm for several paragraphs just to say you COULD die but probably won't and even your ship will be replaced,so ya just like Eve and really you lose nothing  dependent on how costly insurance is.I see it as a really bad design and one that could probably recreate the very blemish Eve has  and that is RMT .

    Furthermore once you have that SYSTEM in place that  either encourages a ton of RMT or done via cash shop,you have now ruined the entire game economy again points finger at Eve.

    This also points again to a copy of Eve because it sounds like the ONLY combat and ONLY REAL character you have is your ship.So your player  can't be killed on any planet or anywhere outside of the ship.There goes that long speech about immersion he was building towards.

    Simple truth about this type of game is it could be an absolute great game to play and even i would paly it IF it was done right.The other simple fact is that this type of game is like building two games in one,first the ship universe and content and then the needed support  content that proves you are actually a player and not just a ship avatar.

    I am a STRONG believer in that if you can't do a genre or game properly,you should not be doing it at all,otherwise it is just more F2p spam on an already over saturated market.I want to start seeing quality games that push the envelope and really open some eyes.A good solid game would bring players from all genres and all aspects of gaming if it were just done right.

    Reading the article, it states that your character can be killed while off the ship.

  • AsheramAsheram Posts: 1,971Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simplius
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by desdecardo

     Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

    Thanks for the laugh.

    And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

    yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

    and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

     

    They should be making it a mix of space sim and the ability to land on planets and get out of your ship and explore the planet on foot and the possibility of encountering others there as well, then it would take it away from just competing with Eve. If it was like that I would have pledged in a heartbeat as I have no interest in just flying ships around.  

    image
  • AreWeLiveAreWeLive Brockville, ONPosts: 115Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asheram
    Originally posted by simplius
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by desdecardo

     Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

    Thanks for the laugh.

    And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

    yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

    and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

     

    They should be making it a mix of space sim and the ability to land on planets and get out of your ship and explore the planet on foot and the possibility of encountering others there as well, then it would take it away from just competing with Eve. If it was like that I would have pledged in a heartbeat as I have no interest in just flying ships around.  

     I really do not see this as targeting eve at all, the play styles are so different, in eve your a the commander of the ship and in SC your a fighter in fps... (BTW freelancer was once of my fav games, I actually came to eve from there (beta testing) cause i wanted more and it took me a long time to accept i was the commander and not the fighter).

     As for the permadeath,,this can make or break a game, i know lots of games have backed off this simply because if you have this system there is a lot of ppl out there that will not play it at all. I am not a big fan of "total permAdeath", variations of it like eves or maybe darkfalls would be fine to me.

     I am really looking forward to this game and hope the idea of permadeath does not kill this game.

     

     

     

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by AreWeLive
    Originally posted by Asheram
    Originally posted by simplius
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by desdecardo

     Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

    Thanks for the laugh.

    And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

    yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

    and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

     

    They should be making it a mix of space sim and the ability to land on planets and get out of your ship and explore the planet on foot and the possibility of encountering others there as well, then it would take it away from just competing with Eve. If it was like that I would have pledged in a heartbeat as I have no interest in just flying ships around.  

     I really do not see this as targeting eve at all, the play styles are so different, in eve your a the commander of the ship and in SC your a fighter in fps... (BTW freelancer was once of my fav games, I actually came to eve from there (beta testing) cause i wanted more and it took me a long time to accept i was the commander and not the fighter).

     As for the permadeath,,this can make or break a game, i know lots of games have backed off this simply because if you have this system there is a lot of ppl out there that will not play it at all. I am not a big fan of "total permAdeath", variations of it like eves or maybe darkfalls would be fine to me.

     I am really looking forward to this game and hope the idea of permadeath does not kill this game.

     

     

     

    im a little confused on something your talking about, you are aware that in eve its not that your a commander of the ship so mauch as your the only person in the ship right?, eve ships are all controlled by one person due to some plot item i ant rember, there is no crew or anything.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • AvsRock21AvsRock21 Denver, COPosts: 256Member
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    Originally posted by AreWeLive
    Originally posted by Asheram
    Originally posted by simplius
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by desdecardo

     Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

    Thanks for the laugh.

    And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

    yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

    and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

     

    They should be making it a mix of space sim and the ability to land on planets and get out of your ship and explore the planet on foot and the possibility of encountering others there as well, then it would take it away from just competing with Eve. If it was like that I would have pledged in a heartbeat as I have no interest in just flying ships around.  

     I really do not see this as targeting eve at all, the play styles are so different, in eve your a the commander of the ship and in SC your a fighter in fps... (BTW freelancer was once of my fav games, I actually came to eve from there (beta testing) cause i wanted more and it took me a long time to accept i was the commander and not the fighter).

     As for the permadeath,,this can make or break a game, i know lots of games have backed off this simply because if you have this system there is a lot of ppl out there that will not play it at all. I am not a big fan of "total permAdeath", variations of it like eves or maybe darkfalls would be fine to me.

     I am really looking forward to this game and hope the idea of permadeath does not kill this game.

     

     

     

    im a little confused on something your talking about, you are aware that in eve its not that your a commander of the ship so mauch as your the only person in the ship right?, eve ships are all controlled by one person due to some plot item i ant rember, there is no crew or anything.

    You couldn't be more incorrect. Have you even played EVE? In EVE you are a capsuleer, which is synonymous with a commander. If you have played EVE, it's obvious you didn't read much of anything. Multiple times I have come across references, in-game, that talk about your ships crew. Also, it is uniformly accepted through the EVE community that you are the commander of a ship. The larger ships are stated to carry crews that number in the thousands. It makes no sense otherwise. Even the frigates are very big and require a crew. Also, the control scheme is that of a commander, and not a pilot / one-man crew... The only single pilot ships in the game are drones. 

  • Lovely_LalyLovely_Laly genevaPosts: 734Member

    sorry to ask but perma death means you need to create new char daily?=D

    and why it so exiting, by the way?

    try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
    Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  • vveaver_onlinevveaver_online stockholmPosts: 274Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sea.shell

    In star citizen, you don't learn skills <........> no 3% more weapon damage <.....>, if you lose a character permanently it's more about the name and the assets including your kill / death ratio for dogfight hungry players. That is for the persistent server.


    It's a fun metagame for those who like that kind of gameplay, the rest shrugs the lost ships off, and creates xXxDeathsnip0rXxX20 in the "proud" legacy of xXxDeathsni0rXxX19 and continues to suicide gank :)


    Others will play the multiplayer deadmatch modes where everyone has 20 respawns in a 15 minute dogfight match / Capture the cargo etc etc.


    Again, others will play the singleplayer part and load the game when they die.

    this is on the point. thanks sea.shell!

  • Ladrann27Ladrann27 ValkenburgPosts: 43Member

    This is very good, I like this idea. There needs to be some form of consequence when dying, because that is the only way to really make you care about winning or losing a fight. I have had so many adrenaline rushes when playing EVE, especially in an expensive ship. It makes winning a fight so much better, but if you loose, the penalty's are not as hard that you cannot overcome them.

     

    Looking forward to getting more info on this game!

  • Quazal.AQuazal.A PrestonPosts: 498Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    Originally posted by AreWeLive
    Originally posted by Asheram
    Originally posted by simplius
    Originally posted by FromHell
    Originally posted by desdecardo

     Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  

    Thanks for the laugh.

    And thanks to the Star Citizen team for not making SC another overcasual carebear game. Market is filled with this stuff already. Time for change.

    yup lets make another niche game,,we never get enough of those

    and, since this game will be targeting the EVE crowd, they have to split a niche population

     

    They should be making it a mix of space sim and the ability to land on planets and get out of your ship and explore the planet on foot and the possibility of encountering others there as well, then it would take it away from just competing with Eve. If it was like that I would have pledged in a heartbeat as I have no interest in just flying ships around.  

     I really do not see this as targeting eve at all, the play styles are so different, in eve your a the commander of the ship and in SC your a fighter in fps... (BTW freelancer was once of my fav games, I actually came to eve from there (beta testing) cause i wanted more and it took me a long time to accept i was the commander and not the fighter).

     As for the permadeath,,this can make or break a game, i know lots of games have backed off this simply because if you have this system there is a lot of ppl out there that will not play it at all. I am not a big fan of "total permAdeath", variations of it like eves or maybe darkfalls would be fine to me.

     I am really looking forward to this game and hope the idea of permadeath does not kill this game.

     

     

     

    im a little confused on something your talking about, you are aware that in eve its not that your a commander of the ship so mauch as your the only person in the ship right?, eve ships are all controlled by one person due to some plot item i ant rember, there is no crew or anything.

    If i may link this http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

    this shows you the rough crew per ship, IE 1-2 for shuttles upto 6k-10k for titans, also tells you the what sorta survival rate you would get if these ships where destroyed lol

     

    Gotta say for all the reference to this game and eve about the perma death, people are focussing on the ISK cost in eve , and maybe hassle of replacement of ships etc.

    How about loss of REAL time for instance any T3 skill lost at level 5 is a 4.5days of real time training, heck i have even lost Battleship 5 skill (due to being podded then station i was reborn at didn't have a working clone bay) and lost almost 16days of real time training..

    Now can you tell me ANY game that you lose real time .. heck if you consider its $10 per month then i lost $5 by getting my ass wooped.... Now that is as harsh as it comes...

    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game :) were of course your welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
    Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  • hfztthfztt GlostrupPosts: 839Member Uncommon

    He is over thinking this game so much.

    In a persistent universe its the player behind the character that becomes a legend. Names and looks means nothing. So really there is nothing more harsh about this system than EVE's system.

    The design is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either they will have to make names somehow tell you who the player behind the screen is (think same last name, but new surname) but that eliminates the penalty: The player really becomes the legend. Or they anonymity offered by a complete new name will be the greifers dream. EVE greifers would die for a way to change their characters name.

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAPosts: 1,946Member
    Originally posted by sea.shell

    In star citizen, you don't learn skills <........> no 3% more weapon damage <.....>, if you lose a character permanently it's more about the name and the assets including your kill / death ratio for dogfight hungry players. That is for the persistent server.


    It's a fun metagame for those who like that kind of gameplay, the rest shrugs the lost ships off, and creates xXxDeathsnip0rXxX20 in the "proud" legacy of xXxDeathsni0rXxX19 and continues to suicide gank :)


    Others will play the multiplayer deadmatch modes where everyone has 20 respawns in a 15 minute dogfight match / Capture the cargo etc etc.


    Again, others will play the singleplayer part and load the game when they die.

    That's a downer.

    For those of us who use the same name in various games, having to add numbers and whatever to it is just a turnoff. Furthermore, it'll look spammy.

    And as others pointed out permadeath is a major turn off to most players (and one reason is because they prefer to character develop, not make throw away toons).

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member

    COMPLETELY misleading thread title.

    No way is this Permadeath.  Permadeath is if you die there is no lives, there is no ejection, there is no stem cell research, there is no regain of lives.  While permadeath is a possibility it sounds like a a somewhat reasonable avenues to prevent a permadeath of your character.

    The went away with the no consequences of dying and provided consequences.  It's a give or take thing imo, be intresting how that happens.  Not sure if bounties are all that great of a deterrent.  Plenty of bounties out in EVE but one can be self sufficient or just get an alt to make a supply run.

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ohura75

    I just became a 65.00 pledger, which gives access to all alpha and beta's.  Does anyone know when those might be?  Was poking around on the game site and didn't see anything about beta or alpha testing and/or a date.  

     

    Thanks

    Here it is.

    Interpret as you will: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=XDLEIBheqYU#t=268s

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • spankybusspankybus Orlando, FLPosts: 1,154Member Uncommon

    I read the article from start to finish...all I can say i BADASS!

     

    i am seriously considering funding this puppy now.

    Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
    www.spankybus.com
    -3d Artist & Compositor
    -Writer
    -Professional Amature

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by simplius
    Originally posted by Boardwalker
    Originally posted by desdecardo

    ...failure like Eve.  Money wasted...Its why Eve never took off....

    Hmmm, EVE currently has over 450K subscribers, and it's population has been booming over the past couple months. Quite the failure? I think not, especially because it's been around for 10 years in an industry that chews up lesser games.

    And when you're talking death systems, EVE's is actually quite good. Even Chris Roberts said as much. For me, the only "harsh" mechanic to EVE's system is the loss of your ship, although if your ship is destroyed it makes sense that you would lose it. And getting podded is hardly a "harsh" penalty.

    EVE has been "booming" since the 90s, yet the player numbers are roughly the same

    EVE is a great game, and no failure,,,but booming? hardly

    and this game will be a direct competitor for EVEs customers,,lets see, how that turns out

    not many mmos from 2003 record slow but steady growth in 2013, sir. 

     

    hell, not many MMOs from 2013 dont. 

    image

  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied -, WAPosts: 2,080Member Uncommon

    I don't have any interest in pure gaming permadeath where you have to start a new game over from scratch. It was an idea people clamored over a long time ago, but I think it's just a poor concept. Hardcore? Sure, but still a poor concept.

    I like the legacy/heritage system RSI has proposed. If you don't want to play as your current characters son or nephew, don't get killed.

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by FromHell

    check this out:

    best death system in a game ever

    http://robertsspaceindustries.com/death-of-a-spacema/

     

    Very misquoted title.

     

    It is not even really permadeath if you read the article...

     

    Try to scare people more?

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Hephzibah, GAPosts: 1,946Member
    Originally posted by denshing

    I like the legacy/heritage system RSI has proposed. If you don't want to play as your current characters son or nephew, don't get killed.

    Might as well put that on their website, so to kill the game before it's even released.

    It's cute on alts, but mains that will die (as you're going to in games) as you play them the most, not fun at all.

  • william0532william0532 portland, ORPosts: 251Member

    Star Citizen will now have an arena mode as well. 

     

    My "It's going to be hardcore" thought is now rescinded. 

    Arena's, a slider(for PvP preference), this game is probably going to be a fun single player game(the sq42), but I'm getting a feeling that it's going to miss completely on the mmo portion of the game.

  • CaldicotCaldicot StockholmPosts: 432Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by william0532

    Star Citizen will now have an arena mode as well. 

     

    My "It's going to be hardcore" thought is now rescinded. 

    Arena's, a slider(for PvP preference), this game is probably going to be a fun single player game(the sq42), but I'm getting a feeling that it's going to miss completely on the mmo portion of the game.

    Can you elaborate on that? I'm also confused by this mixed single-player/MMO thing. All I know is that I want a good MMO space-sim. You know like EVE but actually fun to play.

    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  • Attend4455Attend4455 BirminghamPosts: 161Member
    Originally posted by desdecardo

    Wish I had known about this.  Now I feel like my pledge has gone to a game that will flail just above failure like Eve.  Money wasted.  Perma Death = Failure in MMOs and RPGs.  It wont succed once people know about this.  All it takes is one epic failure and the game gets a fail amongst the mass of gammers out there.  So long Star Citizen and thanks for all the fish, before the fish have even been handed out.

     

    Its not a successful format for MMOs and gets changed the moment developers realize that any form of perma death = game failure.  Its why Eve never took off.  Im sure Star Citizen will change this garbage before launch.  Otherwise it will fail and people will be upset that they wasted money on funding a developer that doesnt know MMOs or RPGs or Space games period.

     

    Could I ask you to explain a bit more about how Eve never took off? it seems to have taken off quite well to me. Thanks.

    I sometimes make spelling and grammar errors but I don't pretend it's because I'm using a phone

  • FlaebFlaeb Cookie, NYPosts: 91Member
    Jesus all the whiners, and they didn't even read it properly. It's not exactly perma death, everything gets transferred to your "next of kin" after you die a certain amount of times. You can get cloned like in EVE, but there are times where you can't get cloned, so everything gets TRANSFERED to your "next character". It's perma death....but you DON'T LOSE EVERYTHING. HUGE DIFFERENCE!
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