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[Preview] Firefall: The Miracle Patch?

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Comments

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,205Member Uncommon
    Scot, it's the players' moral responsibility...YES, nariseildon, moral responsibility, you heard it right...to not use the cash shop until the game is launched.

    image

  • DigitallyEndowedDigitallyEndowed PortsmouthPosts: 125Member
    Originally posted by HakudoJoe
    Originally posted by sbarra1x

    Just to chime in on the whole “Open Beta Vs release” issue: it’s not so black and white! Try not to have such a two dimensional perspective.

    Having a cash shop open and choosing not to wipe characters does not automatically class a game as released, finished, ready; you should make your judgements based on the games features and current state of development as opposed to these “hidden rules” that have been imagined up.

    Yes. It does make your game released.  I don't think people understand the amount of word manipulation that's going on here.   Beta by it's definition (in the past) means that the product is not content complete, and is filled with bugs that need working out.    It meant that if the game was "officially" released in that state, it wouldn't be up to the standards of the game industry at large.   

    .                                                                                                                                                                           

    The problem is that PR teams have taken to the idea of applying the beta tag to a released product. Why? Because there's a large contingent of people who will be directly fooled into thinking that it's ok if a released product is incomplete if it has the mythical beta tag on it.   People aren't ok with an incomplete product if it's deemed release, but they can be fooled if you call a release product beta.  It's nothing more than hardcore deception of people who don't know any better. 

    .                                                                                                                                                                      

     

    Thankfully, there's plenty of people in the games journalism world who aren't giving companies a pass when they try to release woefully incomplete games and call them a beta.    Whatever reviews Firefall may get in the next week will be the reviews it deserves, make no mistake. 

     

     

    I understand perfectly the level of manipulation hence the mention of Neverwinter. I still disagree. As I said the fact that you charge for a service does not necessarily mean that the said service is “finished;” it’s simply not as black and white as that.

     

    As you say yourself a beta is not content complete, still has many bugs and so forth. You can launch an open beta that meets these requirements while also choosing to open your cash shop and opting not to wipe any progression; this does not automatically mean that the game is a finished and refined live service.

     

    For Example, what if there were to be a game on Kickstarter and the proposed “launch” version will have 7 races, 7 classes, 7 continents, 7 dungeons, 7 raids and 7 warzones. Now, at some point within this hypothetical game’s development the company decide to launch an open beta, for real “open beta reasons.” At this point in said game’s development there is 1 race, 1 class, 1 continent, 1 dungeon, 1 raid and 1 warzone; we can clearly see that it is nowhere near finished and that the open beta is genuine, but guess what? The company have also decided to keep all character progression permanent as a sort of perk for beta testers, and they have opted to open their cash shop to the public to generate more revenue for further development. Does this suddenly mean that this clearly incomplete game is now complete?

     

    This is what I am getting at; you need to use judgement and logic as opposed to an unwritten blanket rule.


    I agree entirely that it is poor business practice to release a game and pretend it is beta. I see why some companies do this and the advantages are clear, and yes many people do get “suckered” into it. Does this mean that every game with a  live cash shop is automatically finished even if it is very clearly not? Come on now.

  • ZorgoZorgo Deepintheheartof, TXPosts: 2,226Member
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    Originally posted by Dakirn

    Bill.. for the love of god, don't compare the FireFall Open Beta to Neverwinter. Never, ever.. EVER do that.

    Seriously, the Neverwinter launch/open beta fiasco is making it harder for games to do a beta without people expecting it to be in a release state and then complaining everywhere the game isn't finished... and things like you mentioned in the article aren't helping.

    I've already spoken to Red 5 and their PR.  While they're calling it Open Beta, and want people to know it's still "Beta", they also know that letting anyone and everyone in, not wiping characters, and taking money and treating it like a live service means we're going to review it.

    It's that simple.  They can call it what they want to call it, but when it hits Open Beta on the 9th, we'll be treating it like a live product and reviewing it because it's taking money and will for all intents and purposes be "live".

    It's not just Neverwinter that did this either.  But oh-so-many F2P games across the board.  Just because they're higher profile doesn't mean they get a pass.  In fact, it likely means they'll be more under the microscope, and from what I can gather Red 5 is prepared for that.

    I guess Bill doesn't love God...../wink.

  • Squeak69Squeak69 Colorado Springs, COPosts: 956Member
    Originally posted by sbarra1x
    Originally posted by HakudoJoe
    Originally posted by sbarra1x

    Just to chime in on the whole “Open Beta Vs release” issue: it’s not so black and white! Try not to have such a two dimensional perspective.

    Having a cash shop open and choosing not to wipe characters does not automatically class a game as released, finished, ready; you should make your judgements based on the games features and current state of development as opposed to these “hidden rules” that have been imagined up.

    Yes. It does make your game released.  I don't think people understand the amount of word manipulation that's going on here.   Beta by it's definition (in the past) means that the product is not content complete, and is filled with bugs that need working out.    It meant that if the game was "officially" released in that state, it wouldn't be up to the standards of the game industry at large.   

    .                                                                                                                                                                           

    The problem is that PR teams have taken to the idea of applying the beta tag to a released product. Why? Because there's a large contingent of people who will be directly fooled into thinking that it's ok if a released product is incomplete if it has the mythical beta tag on it.   People aren't ok with an incomplete product if it's deemed release, but they can be fooled if you call a release product beta.  It's nothing more than hardcore deception of people who don't know any better. 

    .                                                                                                                                                                      

     

    Thankfully, there's plenty of people in the games journalism world who aren't giving companies a pass when they try to release woefully incomplete games and call them a beta.    Whatever reviews Firefall may get in the next week will be the reviews it deserves, make no mistake. 

     

     

    I understand perfectly the level of manipulation hence the mention of Neverwinter. I still disagree. As I said the fact that you charge for a service does not necessarily mean that the said service is “finished;” it’s simply not as black and white as that.

     

    As you say yourself a beta is not content complete, still has many bugs and so forth. You can launch an open beta that meets these requirements while also choosing to open your cash shop and opting not to wipe any progression; this does not automatically mean that the game is a finished and refined live service.

     

    For Example, what if there were to be a game on Kickstarter and the proposed “launch” version will have 7 races, 7 classes, 7 continents, 7 dungeons, 7 raids and 7 warzones. Now, at some point within this hypothetical game’s development the company decide to launch an open beta, for real “open beta reasons.” At this point in said game’s development there is 1 race, 1 class, 1 continent, 1 dungeon, 1 raid and 1 warzone; we can clearly see that it is nowhere near finished and that the open beta is genuine, but guess what? The company have also decided to keep all character progression permanent as a sort of perk for beta testers, and they have opted to open their cash shop to the public to generate more revenue for further development. Does this suddenly mean that this clearly incomplete game is now complete?

     

    This is what I am getting at; you need to use judgement and logic as opposed to an unwritten blanket rule.


    I agree entirely that it is poor business practice to release a game and pretend it is beta. I see why some companies do this and the advantages are clear, and yes many people do get “suckered” into it. Does this mean that every game with a  live cash shop is automatically finished even if it is very clearly not? Come on now.

    if you are confident enough in a game to take people money for in game stuff, and state you will not need to do a char whipe again, then it is a finished product.

    don't let the lack of a sub fool you, cause the cash shop is the replacement for the subs.

    you can argue aginst it all you want but in the end, companies that do tis are ether idiots or mone grubbing.

    F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used toimage
    Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.

  • DerrosDerros Posts: 1,077Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sbarra1x

     

    For Example, what if there were to be a game on Kickstarter and the proposed “launch” version will have 7 races, 7 classes, 7 continents, 7 dungeons, 7 raids and 7 warzones. Now, at some point within this hypothetical game’s development the company decide to launch an open beta, for real “open beta reasons.” At this point in said game’s development there is 1 race, 1 class, 1 continent, 1 dungeon, 1 raid and 1 warzone; we can clearly see that it is nowhere near finished and that the open beta is genuine, but guess what? The company have also decided to keep all character progression permanent as a sort of perk for beta testers, and they have opted to open their cash shop to the public to generate more revenue for further development. Does this suddenly mean that this clearly incomplete game is now complete?

     

    This is what I am getting at; you need to use judgement and logic as opposed to an unwritten blanket rule.

     

    Yes, that game is released, it may not be "feature complete" but it IS released. 

     

    And I honestly get what Red5 is trying to say, but at this point its like PETA trying to get fish renamed Sea Kittens.

  • granfadragranfadra FinspangPosts: 1Member
    This Place is full of the same stupid ppl that spam every gameforum out there /OMG THEY TAKE MY MONEY AND SAY ITS BETA OMG/ its beta if they still test the game get a grio on what beta is guys
  • g4m3sh4rkg4m3sh4rk Fairfield, MTPosts: 40Member
    This game is doomed to fail. There is just enough game here to get you to want to pay for their beans. If I were you I would steer clear of this money sink.. After a week or two this game becomes nothing more then what it was truly meant to be... a money pit. 
  • g4m3sh4rkg4m3sh4rk Fairfield, MTPosts: 40Member
    Originally posted by granfadra
    This Place is full of the same stupid ppl that spam every gameforum out there /OMG THEY TAKE MY MONEY AND SAY ITS BETA OMG/ its beta if they still test the game get a grio on what beta is guys
     

    ^ This

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by granfadra
    This Place is full of the same stupid ppl that spam every gameforum out there /OMG THEY TAKE MY MONEY AND SAY ITS BETA OMG/ its beta if they still test the game get a grio on what beta is guys

    Yeah I bet they are the same people that believe a test server is not really a test server cause the game is charging them money! I can hear thousands of frustrated devs across the world screaming in the words of Bill O'reilly during his epic meltdown:

    F-K IT! WE'LL DO IT LIVE!!

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  • aligada87aligada87 Queens, NYPosts: 219Member

    after playing ff since the patch, i have enjoyed my time. open beta broke the server but red 5 did their thing and fixed them. i'm actually impressed with how much it has improved. the game forces you to craft but i think they did that to make it more rewarding and that it didn't feel like you was just grinding for exp. the auction house is a nice way to finally make income so crafters and farmers both will make great profits. the lgv recipe is a nice addition because now it has given me a goal besides lvling my character to max. but even though i'm having fun right now i still feel that once you reach endgame it will be lacking. so far from what ive done is play all ares missions which i can easily solo with my bastion engineer and do the other dynamic events like tornadoes lgv crash thumpers and such. i've done all the stuff you can see on the map.

    my bastion is almost nearing its cap and the only thing i can see myself really doing in endgame is making lots of cash, defending my towns, and craftng. other then that i don't see much else to do in endgame. i do fear for the future of firefall and i hope they do have a remedy for this issues asap because it takes people alot faster to burn through all that upgrades if they play it 24/7. oh and if i haven't mentioned i have been playing since the game was first released.

  • HeafstaggHeafstagg Edmonton, ABPosts: 170Member Uncommon
    Bleh, I don't get why some people still refuse to get why MMO's being released in open beta that are taking money from customer's wallets, get reviewed. Stop arguing it and get over it. Nice write up again Bill, your reviews are always objective and entertaining to read :D.

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  • Xanth1asXanth1as Round Rock, TXPosts: 2Member
    Firefall definitely doesn't spoon-feed you anything.  The dynamic content is something I really like about it.  You can be headed to something on one side of the map.  Along the way, missions will pop up and you knock them out since you're already there anyway.  My friends and I really dig this game!!
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