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Why FF14 ARR won't be a success

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  • GrayGhost79GrayGhost79 Webster, MAPosts: 4,813Member
    Originally posted by neobahamut20

    First, we must define what a success is. In this case success is attaining or surpassing the goals set by developers and the expectations for the game. The goals are set by the developper, the expectations come from the fans. Final Fantasy fans don't expect a playable game, they expect a new adventure, a ground-breaking innovative game and new game mechanics. Why? Because in the past, that is what Final Fantasy has been all about.

     

    The goals, we can only speculate on, but the seem to be along the line of "people play X so lets do X or something similar to that, as long as we make money". While it is normal for a company to want to make money, it is also when you focus on making money instead of meeting expectations that you lose money. When you do not meet a customer's expectations, few customers will stay and hope you improve. Players in this day and age want much more than "a playable game".

     

    So what does this game offer? Does it offer groundbreaking, new, innovative combat? No. Does it offer a new, groundbreaking, innovative story? At the moment, it seems not. Does it offer new, groundbreaking, innovative dungeons, reasons for grouping, reasons to interact? No. Does it offer new classes? No. New controls? No. So what does this game offer? Nothing new, just the old content all MMO players looking for a new game do not want. So right off the bat, they simply step back and understand that the game isn't meant for them.  Unless, of course, a playstation release is considered new, then there is something, but it is hard to imagine how that will draw enough attention to attract people.

     

    So who is the target audience? It seems it is new players, newcomers to the MMO world. Veterans are being forced through boring design principles from the beginning. MMOs are just like stores. If a customer walks into a store and sees nothing of interest within 5 minutes, you most likely lost him for a very, very long time if not forever. MMOs get more than 5 minutes though, they get 2 hours to impress. If they can't, he's gone. Likewise, if he gets bored within the first week, he's gone. I guess such a display of ignorance is the price to pay when you let someone who is not an analyst lead production.

     

    So the big question really is, are there enough newcomers to sustain a game long enough for it to stay afloat especially after the 3rd month exodus (that happens even in successful games, but it seems like an interesting phenomenon - Every 3rd month of a new game is where players seem to give up on it the most)? The last game that lacked innovation, which was touted as the next big thing, was SW:TOR. It barely made it thanks to going F2P and it is still very far from a success, it is only playable.

     

    Given that nostalgic Final Fantasy fans will still give the game a try, it still seems like FF11 is the better game of the two. There is no reason for a max level player from FF11 to switch over to FF14 at this point in time. For this reason and those listed above, this game will never be a success, but, with some luck, it might be able to stay afloat. Best of luck to them, but for me, its time to move on and wait for something else as this will never meet my expectations.

    This game is directed at Final Fantasy fans, not MMO gamers. With that said yes, it does offer innovations and such over FFXI and many changes are implemented that players have asked for. 

    As someone still playing FFXI I can tell you that most I know from several linkshells have been playing in the beta and have already informed their respective LS's that they are moving to FFXIV when it launches. Many LS's are even moving the entire LS over to the new game while leaving the XI one open for the few that do not wish to migrate to the new game. 

     

    No FFXIV isn't going to be for everyone and it won't be for every FFXI fan or Final Fantasy fan but... they have made a lot of changes and such that were requested by their target audience and most that are in the beta (In XI at least) seem to be happy with the new game and are already making plans for their move. 

     

    I have no idea what you are basing your opinions on but I think XIV will do well and will be considered a success this time around. Overall feedback seems to be good from those in the beta, the videos are looking good, the level of communication, etc. As of right now things are looking good. 

     

    You seem to be confusing FFXIV with a standard MMO which would make your above opinions understandable. The problem here is that FFXIV is offering a fairly different type of game and experience than your standard MMO and it appeals to a very specific playerbase just as FFXI did. It definitely won't be setting any records but it should definitely do very well in its niche. 

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member

    Why your OP is just more of the same MMORPG.com drivel:

     

    99% of GAMERS want a GAME they simply enjoy.  Many people playing the beta are enjoying it, a clear majority.  You could have posted this thread two months ago, but since people have actually gotten to play the game the game has skyrocketed in attention and popularity.  This didn't happen because everyone who played it thought it was as lackluster as you obviously.

     

    Keep droning on about features, and revolutions and what is not groundbreaking and what is.  Or how FF fans will all go play FFXI (here's a tip most of us who played XI quit long ago, and we aren't going back) and even more FF fans hate FFXI. 

     

    A million people didn't register for a beta simply because of the FF name.  This game fell off the face of the earth after 1.0, it got/gets little attention in the press.  The entirety of its hype is driven by new people trying the game and discovering to their surprise how much they like it.  You don't like it, but no one is crying over that fact.  As long as the game keeps these players entertained, as they are entertained by a limited beta so far it will do just fine.

     

    Also Square Enix cares enough to build an entirely new game and continuously update 1.0 while they built it, subscriptions rose threefold during 1.0 (despite the game still have a number of serious issues, hence why they had to remake it).  I wouldn't bet so hard on the game failing, i'm not sure what you have invested in its failure.

     

    Then again what do you people ever have invested in a game's failure?  Other than bitterness and longing for some kind of parroting of your hate to make your regular lamentations seem slightly less a desperate waste of everyone's time.  I remember being told what a failure 1.0 was and how that was the death of Final Fantasy and Square Enix making MMORPG's, well that worked out pretty well for me as a fan, and it really must sting you that the game got a second chance and is being received as well as has been.  All that wasted time of yours making threads like these.

     

    /comfort

  • neobahamut20neobahamut20 ste-julie, QCPosts: 336Member
    Originally posted by oGMo

    Buh? FF hasn't ever been about any of those things. If anything, Final Fantasy has been about sticking to traditions literally from the first game on the NES. Really .. it's surprising, go back and play FF1 and see how many things are actually in there that are still in more modern/traditional Final Fantasies (including FFXIV and FFXI).

    If anything, the FFs that have broken with tradition (FF13, FF14 v1) have been less successful (and also crap games).

    This invalidates your entire post.

    Additionally, the reason for high-level FFXI players to play FFXIV is to play a game that will have the same development as XI, build the same community as XI, and have a lot of new things to do with much better gameplay. XIV looks to succeed here quite handily. No, it doesn't have the complexity of XI yet, but neither did XI at launch.

    So why would they leave the game with complexity to join the one that may or may never reach the complexity they expect? I mean, they may try it, but there is no reason to stay at the moment. A lot of them stuck to FFXI when WoW came out because they thought it retarded to do silly quests, which is the main focus of XIV.

     

    Also, I've played all FF until 12, didn't really play 13 because I pretty much stopped console gaming now,  and the innovations are quite subtle but they are there. Some have entirely new battle systems. Just the fact you could change character classes at the time was huge.  When materia came out it was refreshing. FF8 had a bad magic system, but that was still innovating. You need to understand what innovation is before saying it doesn't innovate. It doesn't always have to work, but it has to be tried. You can still follow a tradition and innovate. They are not mutually exclusive.

     

    Copying systems from other games and putting a FF Skin on it, is not innovation, especially when done worse.

    Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  • free2playfree2play Toronto, ONPosts: 1,868Member Uncommon

    ARR might very well flop in 3 months but I think by then it will have made its money. Play Station users will be dropping between $50 and $80 to own the game. Pretty average for any console game. If they can sell a million copies, they made money hand over fist.

     

    I don't know what the objectives are in terms of the game but I don't think people really appreciate the grind they are getting in to with this game. So you leveled your Archer to 50, you are done now, right? Not even close.

     

    5 x 50 War

    2 x 50 Magic

    8 x 50 Hand

    3 x 50 Land

     

    They all tie in as well. Getting all the War to 50 will tie them in. A 50 Archer will open limited amounts of end game. A 50 Archer, Pug, Glad, Marauder, Lancer will allow you to mix and match your specials to be a true War class character.

     

    If you are enjoying the ride, they have created a game with longevity. If it turns in to a grind nightmare, things will turn to shit. Content in ARR isn't much different than content in 1.00 with the exception, ARR content is rammed down your throat. Proof in the all 50's people, there was enough content in 1.00 to level. They just didn't spoon feed it to you. In ARR they do, forced feeding it but the point is, you have enough spoon fed content to get that first 50. Then you are on your own.

     

    Once the masses get 50 X 1 and they have no hand holding for the other 17 things are going to change in the climate of the game and belly flop can happen.

  • Reza82Reza82 Ottawa, ONPosts: 40Member Uncommon
    I haven`t played a FF game since playstations FF7.. played everything before that.. I am looking forward to the release of this game..
  • SephzSephz BredaPosts: 37Member

    Only time will tell. In the meanwhile, I'll be enjoying this game.

     

  • dadante666dadante666 buford, GAPosts: 404Member Common
    true like others say it a ff fan game whit really dont need to offer nothing new from others mmorp games ,in mi opionion till this day old mmo are way better than new ones ,and ic nothing wrong whit it

    image

  • BattlerockBattlerock Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,393Member
    Originally posted by neobahamut20

    First, we must define what a success is. In this case success is attaining or surpassing the goals set by developers and the expectations for the game. The goals are set by the developper, the expectations come from the fans. Final Fantasy fans don't expect a playable game, they expect a new adventure, a ground-breaking innovative game and new game mechanics. Why? Because in the past, that is what Final Fantasy has been all about.

     

    The goals, we can only speculate on, but the seem to be along the line of "people play X so lets do X or something similar to that, as long as we make money". While it is normal for a company to want to make money, it is also when you focus on making money instead of meeting expectations that you lose money. When you do not meet a customer's expectations, few customers will stay and hope you improve. Players in this day and age want much more than "a playable game".

     

    So what does this game offer? Does it offer groundbreaking, new, innovative combat? No. Does it offer a new, groundbreaking, innovative story? At the moment, it seems not. Does it offer new, groundbreaking, innovative dungeons, reasons for grouping, reasons to interact? No. Does it offer new classes? No. New controls? No. So what does this game offer? Nothing new, just the old content all MMO players looking for a new game do not want. So right off the bat, they simply step back and understand that the game isn't meant for them.  Unless, of course, a playstation release is considered new, then there is something, but it is hard to imagine how that will draw enough attention to attract people.

     

    So who is the target audience? It seems it is new players, newcomers to the MMO world. Veterans are being forced through boring design principles from the beginning. MMOs are just like stores. If a customer walks into a store and sees nothing of interest within 5 minutes, you most likely lost him for a very, very long time if not forever. MMOs get more than 5 minutes though, they get 2 hours to impress. If they can't, he's gone. Likewise, if he gets bored within the first week, he's gone. I guess such a display of ignorance is the price to pay when you let someone who is not an analyst lead production.

     

    So the big question really is, are there enough newcomers to sustain a game long enough for it to stay afloat especially after the 3rd month exodus (that happens even in successful games, but it seems like an interesting phenomenon - Every 3rd month of a new game is where players seem to give up on it the most)? The last game that lacked innovation, which was touted as the next big thing, was SW:TOR. It barely made it thanks to going F2P and it is still very far from a success, it is only playable.

     

    Given that nostalgic Final Fantasy fans will still give the game a try, it still seems like FF11 is the better game of the two. There is no reason for a max level player from FF11 to switch over to FF14 at this point in time. For this reason and those listed above, this game will never be a success, but, with some luck, it might be able to stay afloat. Best of luck to them, but for me, its time to move on and wait for something else as this will never meet my expectations.

    People are doing it everyday. There are doing it and doing it and doing it and making new babies that have never experienced what you have and they dont have this out of this world expectation that you have and what seems like pure junk to you may seem like pure gold to them. Final fantasy ARR is going to be just fine. You know why? Because people are doing it.

  • neobahamut20neobahamut20 ste-julie, QCPosts: 336Member
    Originally posted by Murugan

    Why your OP is just more of the same MMORPG.com drivel:

     

    99% of GAMERS want a GAME they simply enjoy.  Many people playing the beta are enjoying it, a clear majority.  You could have posted this thread two months ago, but since people have actually gotten to play the game the game has skyrocketed in attention and popularity.  This didn't happen because everyone who played it thought it was as lackluster as you obviously.

     

    Keep droning on about features, and revolutions and what is not groundbreaking and what is.  Or how FF fans will all go play FFXI (here's a tip most of us who played XI quit long ago, and we aren't going back) and even more FF fans hate FFXI. 

     

    A million people didn't register for a beta simply because of the FF name.  This game fell off the face of the earth after 1.0, it got/gets little attention in the press.  The entirety of its hype is driven by new people trying the game and discovering to their surprise how much they like it.  You don't like it, but no one is crying over that fact.  As long as the game keeps these players entertained, as they are entertained by a limited beta so far it will do just fine.

     

    Also Square Enix cares enough to build an entirely new game and continuously update 1.0 while they built it, subscriptions rose threefold during 1.0 (despite the game still have a number of serious issues, hence why they had to remake it).  I wouldn't bet so hard on the game failing, i'm not sure what you have invested in its failure.

     

    Then again what do you people ever have invested in a game's failure?  Other than bitterness and longing for some kind of parroting of your hate to make your regular lamentations seem slightly less a desperate waste of everyone's time.  I remember being told what a failure 1.0 was and how that was the death of Final Fantasy and Square Enix making MMORPG's, well that worked out pretty well for me as a fan, and it really must sting you that the game got a second chance and is being received as well as has been.  All that wasted time of yours making threads like these.

     

    /comfort

    Something that stays afloat does not fail, but is not a success. There is a middle ground and this is what this game is heading for. I don't see why you have to automatically call something that is profitable a success, it is not. No one really invests in game failures, people just laugh when it happens especially when a company defends bad choices, like they did in SW:TOR.

     

    Also, what happened to Warhammer Online? I mean, there were 1.5 million beta registrations, so it must be great! Beta registrations mean nothing if the company does not deliver. Like it or not, the game is said to be an MMO. If it's an MMO that doesn't appeal to MMO players, you have a huge problem. Lets build a bicycle and promote it as a truck, so truckers can buy it instead, trucks sell for much more than bicycles, right?

    Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  • NobleNerdNobleNerd Wolcott, NYPosts: 671Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by HakudoJoe

    I swore off WoW-style games forever, and then tried FFXIV. Guess what? FFXIV is doing things right to the point that I'm completely into the game on a level I never thought I would be.  The game arguably has the most polish of any MMO ever released (including vanilla WoW), and it puts things together in an extremely entertaining package.  The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts in this case. 

     

    If FFXIV puts out a compelling end game, I could easily see it becoming the #2 MMO in the world behind WoW. It won't dethrone WoW, but it's going to come a lot closer than SWTOR ever did.  

    I agree with you. I have played 1.0 for a short time and 2.0 since beta release. The game engine is the smoothest of any MMO I have played and I started out during EQ days. The graphics are spot on and few glitches that I have encountered. The combat could be more diverse, but is entertaining and challenging at times. The story has been the BEST with limited cutscenes that are not intrusive. I applaud Yoshi and his team! It is not a WoW clone either....YES some elements that WoW made popular are in the game (Yoshi already told the fans he was going to do that), BUT it is by far not a WoW clone... there are many elements of Final Fantasy that makes this game stand out: Limit Breaks, Compelling story throughout the game, dual-multi class system with advance class unlocking, etc.

     

    This game will be well received and will be subscription based ONLY (thank you Yoshi). I look forward to playing the launched version.

    image

  • oGMooGMo Seattle, WAPosts: 89Member


    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    So why would they leave the game with complexity to join the one that may or may never reach the complexity they expect? I mean, they may try it, but there is no reason to stay at the moment. A lot of them stuck to FFXI when WoW came out because they thought it retarded to do silly quests, which is the main focus of XIV.

    I sense someone didn't get into the Beta. If you think the "main focus of XIV" is "silly quests", you have merely read a few poor second-hand accounts and never actually played. Or not even done the level 5 story mission. I mean seriously.

    And, why would anyone ever try a new game? I can't possibly imagine!
     



    Also, I've played all FF until 12, didn't really play 13 because I pretty much stopped console gaming now,  and the innovations are quite subtle but they are there.
    <snip>

    You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

    There are subtle evolutions to the battle system ... ones you don't seem to remember, like ATB ... but job changing was actually done in Dragon Warrior 3 before FF3, and Enix and Dragon Warrior being their major competitor at the time, you can be sure they were paying attention.

    Also, FF3 was still early enough to be establishing things for the series; for instance, chocobos didn't appear until FF2, but they're a well-accepted staple.

    Materia was simply a finer-grained version of jobs.

    There have been changes, but Final Fantasy has definitely not been about making genre-defining gameplay so much as using established gameplay and having a singular story. One which FFXIV very much picks up on (to say more would be spoilers).



    Copying systems from other games and putting a FF Skin on it, is not innovation, especially when done worse.

    No, but it's pretty much the story of Final Fantasy; however, FF tends to do things quite well, though it's been going downhill since the FFX days. Fortunately, YoshiP has brought a fresh breath of what Final Fantasy really is to FFXIV.

  • Reza82Reza82 Ottawa, ONPosts: 40Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Murugan

    Why your OP is just more of the same MMORPG.com drivel:

     

    99% of GAMERS want a GAME they simply enjoy.  Many people playing the beta are enjoying it, a clear majority.  You could have posted this thread two months ago, but since people have actually gotten to play the game the game has skyrocketed in attention and popularity.  This didn't happen because everyone who played it thought it was as lackluster as you obviously.

     

    Keep droning on about features, and revolutions and what is not groundbreaking and what is.  Or how FF fans will all go play FFXI (here's a tip most of us who played XI quit long ago, and we aren't going back) and even more FF fans hate FFXI. 

     

    A million people didn't register for a beta simply because of the FF name.  This game fell off the face of the earth after 1.0, it got/gets little attention in the press.  The entirety of its hype is driven by new people trying the game and discovering to their surprise how much they like it.  You don't like it, but no one is crying over that fact.  As long as the game keeps these players entertained, as they are entertained by a limited beta so far it will do just fine.

     

    Also Square Enix cares enough to build an entirely new game and continuously update 1.0 while they built it, subscriptions rose threefold during 1.0 (despite the game still have a number of serious issues, hence why they had to remake it).  I wouldn't bet so hard on the game failing, i'm not sure what you have invested in its failure.

     

    Then again what do you people ever have invested in a game's failure?  Other than bitterness and longing for some kind of parroting of your hate to make your regular lamentations seem slightly less a desperate waste of everyone's time.  I remember being told what a failure 1.0 was and how that was the death of Final Fantasy and Square Enix making MMORPG's, well that worked out pretty well for me as a fan, and it really must sting you that the game got a second chance and is being received as well as has been.  All that wasted time of yours making threads like these.

     

    /comfort

    Something that stays afloat does not fail, but is not a success. There is a middle ground and this is what this game is heading for. I don't see why you have to automatically call something that is profitable a success, it is not. No one really invests in game failures, people just laugh when it happens especially when a company defends bad choices, like they did in SW:TOR.

     

    Also, what happened to Warhammer Online? I mean, there were 1.5 million beta registrations, so it must be great! Beta registrations mean nothing if the company does not deliver. Like it or not, the game is said to be an MMO. If it's an MMO that doesn't appeal to MMO players, you have a huge problem. Lets build a bicycle and promote it as a truck, so truckers can buy it instead, trucks sell for much more than bicycles, right?

    I can`t wait to experience the middle ground.. it will be great for some and not great for others.. all in the eye of the beholder.. either way, after lurking on this site for a long time, I`ve grown sick and tired of all the negativity that surrounds the community and instead of looking in these forums for information regarding upcoming games and finding nothing but fanboys and trolls bickering on either end I`m gonna put on my rose colored glasses, pick something I might be interested in and give it a fair shake...what`s the worst that could happen? I spend a few bucks and spend a few days or nights playing a game i eventually get bored of?  which is what happens to 98% of the games anyways,even successful ones we all eventually move on

    Just out of spite, I hope you never find a game you enjoy...

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Murugan

    Why your OP is just more of the same MMORPG.com drivel:

     

    99% of GAMERS want a GAME they simply enjoy.  Many people playing the beta are enjoying it, a clear majority.  You could have posted this thread two months ago, but since people have actually gotten to play the game the game has skyrocketed in attention and popularity.  This didn't happen because everyone who played it thought it was as lackluster as you obviously.

     

    Keep droning on about features, and revolutions and what is not groundbreaking and what is.  Or how FF fans will all go play FFXI (here's a tip most of us who played XI quit long ago, and we aren't going back) and even more FF fans hate FFXI. 

     

    A million people didn't register for a beta simply because of the FF name.  This game fell off the face of the earth after 1.0, it got/gets little attention in the press.  The entirety of its hype is driven by new people trying the game and discovering to their surprise how much they like it.  You don't like it, but no one is crying over that fact.  As long as the game keeps these players entertained, as they are entertained by a limited beta so far it will do just fine.

     

    Also Square Enix cares enough to build an entirely new game and continuously update 1.0 while they built it, subscriptions rose threefold during 1.0 (despite the game still have a number of serious issues, hence why they had to remake it).  I wouldn't bet so hard on the game failing, i'm not sure what you have invested in its failure.

     

    Then again what do you people ever have invested in a game's failure?  Other than bitterness and longing for some kind of parroting of your hate to make your regular lamentations seem slightly less a desperate waste of everyone's time.  I remember being told what a failure 1.0 was and how that was the death of Final Fantasy and Square Enix making MMORPG's, well that worked out pretty well for me as a fan, and it really must sting you that the game got a second chance and is being received as well as has been.  All that wasted time of yours making threads like these.

     

    /comfort

    Something that stays afloat does not fail, but is not a success. There is a middle ground and this is what this game is heading for. I don't see why you have to automatically call something that is profitable a success, it is not. No one really invests in game failures, people just laugh when it happens especially when a company defends bad choices, like they did in SW:TOR.

     

    Also, what happened to Warhammer Online? I mean, there were 1.5 million beta registrations, so it must be great! Beta registrations mean nothing if the company does not deliver. Like it or not, the game is said to be an MMO. If it's an MMO that doesn't appeal to MMO players, you have a huge problem. Lets build a bicycle and promote it as a truck, so truckers can buy it instead, trucks sell for much more than bicycles, right?

    Stays afloat?

    I don't count a threefold increase in subscriber numbers from the time 1.0 charged subs in January till the final patch "stagnation".  That is called growth, and yet it is dwarfed by the reception of ARR so far.

     

    But to entertain your little comparison so Warhammer got all of its systems drastically changed to fix the player base's complaints?  I mean nothing was the same by 1.23 as 1.0. 

     

    Guildleve focus: gone

    Fatigue/Surplus: gone

    Original Armory system: completely revamped

    No chocobos/airships: Added

    Lag: Greatly reduced (as much as they could)

    No content->6 dungeons, 3 primals fights, 3 beastmen strongholds, Darnus, a whole new storyline through Grand Companies.  All GC content, skirmish, relic weapon quests, jobs (with AF quests).

     

    Oh and did Warhammer or any other MMO for that matter have their company rebuild the entire game, new server/client/engine/all new maps/features/gameplay in order to satisfy their fans?  Does that fall under failure or stagnation.  Here we are almost three years later, I still have my character/progression, and I'm getting a new experience vastly improved over the one I originally paid for beyond what any other MMO to date has ever attempted with one game.  I dont' have to rebuy the game, it isn't an expansion pack I get it for free along with several perks, a unique storyline, and everything I thought was missing in 1.0.

     

    Please continue your rambling if you must, but I just want to point out that as a 1.0 player I most definitely WON and your hate towards the game failed hard to produce its intended results of "ruining the game" or whatever was/is the purpose of this little crusade of yours.

     

    Square Enix is neither EA or Mythic, and their treatment of their MMORPG properties are not at all comparable.

     

    Also I'm an MMO player not a single player game FF fan, and this game is for me it has everything I look for in an MMO (endgame raiding, challenging content, jobs I enjoy, multi-class system, an interesting story/plot/world/lore, long term progression, encouraged grouping and community ineraction).  [mod edit]

  • RaxeonRaxeon cedar falls, IAPosts: 2,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by dadante666
    true like others say it a ff fan game whit really dont need to offer nothing new from others mmorp games ,in mi opionion till this day old mmo are way better than new ones ,and ic nothing wrong whit it

    i duno the gold saucer will be something new the housing will be diffreant from some other games

  • RaxeonRaxeon cedar falls, IAPosts: 2,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Murugan

    Why your OP is just more of the same MMORPG.com drivel:

     

    99% of GAMERS want a GAME they simply enjoy.  Many people playing the beta are enjoying it, a clear majority.  You could have posted this thread two months ago, but since people have actually gotten to play the game the game has skyrocketed in attention and popularity.  This didn't happen because everyone who played it thought it was as lackluster as you obviously.

     

    Keep droning on about features, and revolutions and what is not groundbreaking and what is.  Or how FF fans will all go play FFXI (here's a tip most of us who played XI quit long ago, and we aren't going back) and even more FF fans hate FFXI. 

     

    A million people didn't register for a beta simply because of the FF name.  This game fell off the face of the earth after 1.0, it got/gets little attention in the press.  The entirety of its hype is driven by new people trying the game and discovering to their surprise how much they like it.  You don't like it, but no one is crying over that fact.  As long as the game keeps these players entertained, as they are entertained by a limited beta so far it will do just fine.

     

    Also Square Enix cares enough to build an entirely new game and continuously update 1.0 while they built it, subscriptions rose threefold during 1.0 (despite the game still have a number of serious issues, hence why they had to remake it).  I wouldn't bet so hard on the game failing, i'm not sure what you have invested in its failure.

     

    Then again what do you people ever have invested in a game's failure?  Other than bitterness and longing for some kind of parroting of your hate to make your regular lamentations seem slightly less a desperate waste of everyone's time.  I remember being told what a failure 1.0 was and how that was the death of Final Fantasy and Square Enix making MMORPG's, well that worked out pretty well for me as a fan, and it really must sting you that the game got a second chance and is being received as well as has been.  All that wasted time of yours making threads like these.

     

    /comfort

    Something that stays afloat does not fail, but is not a success. There is a middle ground and this is what this game is heading for. I don't see why you have to automatically call something that is profitable a success, it is not. No one really invests in game failures, people just laugh when it happens especially when a company defends bad choices, like they did in SW:TOR.

     

    Also, what happened to Warhammer Online? I mean, there were 1.5 million beta registrations, so it must be great! Beta registrations mean nothing if the company does not deliver. Like it or not, the game is said to be an MMO. If it's an MMO that doesn't appeal to MMO players, you have a huge problem. Lets build a bicycle and promote it as a truck, so truckers can buy it instead, trucks sell for much more than bicycles, right?

    warhammer wasnt a good game i could bearly play it. i know osme people like it thats fine but really ><

  • WicoaWicoa LondonPosts: 1,602Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Raxeon
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Murugan

    Why your OP is just more of the same MMORPG.com drivel:

     

    99% of GAMERS want a GAME they simply enjoy.  Many people playing the beta are enjoying it, a clear majority.  You could have posted this thread two months ago, but since people have actually gotten to play the game the game has skyrocketed in attention and popularity.  This didn't happen because everyone who played it thought it was as lackluster as you obviously.

     

    Keep droning on about features, and revolutions and what is not groundbreaking and what is.  Or how FF fans will all go play FFXI (here's a tip most of us who played XI quit long ago, and we aren't going back) and even more FF fans hate FFXI. 

     

    A million people didn't register for a beta simply because of the FF name.  This game fell off the face of the earth after 1.0, it got/gets little attention in the press.  The entirety of its hype is driven by new people trying the game and discovering to their surprise how much they like it.  You don't like it, but no one is crying over that fact.  As long as the game keeps these players entertained, as they are entertained by a limited beta so far it will do just fine.

     

    Also Square Enix cares enough to build an entirely new game and continuously update 1.0 while they built it, subscriptions rose threefold during 1.0 (despite the game still have a number of serious issues, hence why they had to remake it).  I wouldn't bet so hard on the game failing, i'm not sure what you have invested in its failure.

     

    Then again what do you people ever have invested in a game's failure?  Other than bitterness and longing for some kind of parroting of your hate to make your regular lamentations seem slightly less a desperate waste of everyone's time.  I remember being told what a failure 1.0 was and how that was the death of Final Fantasy and Square Enix making MMORPG's, well that worked out pretty well for me as a fan, and it really must sting you that the game got a second chance and is being received as well as has been.  All that wasted time of yours making threads like these.

     

    /comfort

    Something that stays afloat does not fail, but is not a success. There is a middle ground and this is what this game is heading for. I don't see why you have to automatically call something that is profitable a success, it is not. No one really invests in game failures, people just laugh when it happens especially when a company defends bad choices, like they did in SW:TOR.

     

    Also, what happened to Warhammer Online? I mean, there were 1.5 million beta registrations, so it must be great! Beta registrations mean nothing if the company does not deliver. Like it or not, the game is said to be an MMO. If it's an MMO that doesn't appeal to MMO players, you have a huge problem. Lets build a bicycle and promote it as a truck, so truckers can buy it instead, trucks sell for much more than bicycles, right?

    warhammer wasnt a good game i could bearly play it. i know osme people like it thats fine but really ><

     

    I agree, theres way more content than what warhammer offered.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    I wish people who keep saying this game is the same as "all the others" would have showed me a game that had ALL of these things:

     

    • One character=ALL THINGS POSSIBLE (every piece of content, every class/job/any type of progression not just different "specs" you can choose from for your ONE class)
    • FATE like open world system, and LOADS of trinity based party dependent content for both leveling and endgame progression
    • Armory chest to make changing jobs painless/not a complete drain on inventory like well even gearing on single class MMO's can be (first MMO ever 80% + of my inventory space at endgame is not taken up by my gear)
    • Multiple 24 person raid zones, and varied single group endgame (Primals, Dungeons etc.) with many things to progress/do
    • Some kind of Limit Break like party based combat system (EQ2, Vanguard, and other "weakness/sync/symbiotic" etc. half assed ignored features don't count)
    • crafts/gathering professions as separate classes rather than tacked on experiences
    • Beautiful art/graphics
    • A story/setting as good as FFXIV

     

    I would have had something to play in between betas.  Yet all these games: WoW, Rift, GW2, EQ2 that I have played don't really seem to be the exact same experience.  Obviously.

     

    I don't think many people parroting the term on internet forums know what the word clone even means.  To be a clone you have to be the same in every aspect, so obviously this game is not a clone of any game ever.  It is also not a "reskin" (which still wouldn't be a clone) as no other game on the market even has all of FFXIV's features in one package.

     

    Just more buzz words for people to troll with because they don't like a game and for some reason feel the need to justify their hate to everyone so people understand them and more importantly agree with them. 

  • goozmaniagoozmania chino, CAPosts: 145Member Uncommon
    Given that the game is not only being advertised more than 1.0 ever was, but being advertised as an entire new game, for that matter, I think it has a chance to do pretty well. I personally believe that like such as and... the people holding a grudge against it will be in the minority; and as long as the gameplay isn't 100% solo and instant gratification, it has a chance for mass appeal.
  • evilizedevilized columbus, OHPosts: 564Member Uncommon

    i don't know why you seem to think final fantasy has always been about ground breaking innovation... they have stuck to the same formula for pretty much the entire run of the series minus a couple less-than-stellar outliers.

     

    this game will do fine. it will have a decent playerbase in the west and the japanese will more than likely eat it up. go home OP, you're drunk.

  • EhllfhireEhllfhire Sacramento, CAPosts: 597Member
    Originally posted by Murugan
    I wish people who keep saying this game is the same as "all the others" would have showed me a game that had ALL of these things:

     

    • One character=ALL THINGS POSSIBLE (every piece of content, every class/job/any type of progression not just different "specs" you can choose from for your ONE class) TSW and Rift to a lesser extent do this
    • FATE like open world system, and LOADS of trinity based party dependent content for both leveling and endgame progression Rift and Guildwars 2 do this
    • Armory chest to make changing jobs painless/not a complete drain on inventory like well even gearing on single class MMO's can be (first MMO ever 80% + of my inventory space at endgame is not taken up by my gear) Rift has this
    • Multiple 24 person raid zones, and varied single group endgame (Primals, Dungeons etc.) with many things to progress/do No evodence FFXIV has this in endgame yet, no one kmnows so terrible point.
    • Some kind of Limit Break like party based combat system (EQ2, Vanguard, and other "weakness/sync/symbiotic" etc. half assed ignored features don't count) Really, this is a unique system?
    • crafts/gathering professions as separate classes rather than tacked on experiences Crafting is tacked on, its easymode.
    • Beautiful art/graphics Plenty of games with equal or better.
    • A story/setting as good as FFXIV SWTOR and TSW have story too.

     

    I would have had something to play in between betas.  Yet all these games: WoW, Rift, GW2, EQ2 that I have played don't really seem to be the exact same experience.  Obviously.

     

    I don't think many people parroting the term on internet forums know what the word clone even means.  To be a clone you have to be the same in every aspect, so obviously this game is not a clone of any game ever.  It is also not a "reskin" (which still wouldn't be a clone) as no other game on the market even has all of FFXIV's features in one package.

     

    Just more buzz words for people to troll with because they don't like a game and for some reason feel the need to justify their hate to everyone so people understand them and more importantly agree with them. 

    Geez, I guess FFXIV isnt unique as you thought?

    Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
    PS3

  • oGMooGMo Seattle, WAPosts: 89Member


    Originally posted by goozmania
    <...> as long as the gameplay isn't 100% solo and instant gratification, it has a chance for mass appeal.

    It should be noted that while it feels instant-gratification-ish in the beginning, far moreso than FFXI's "well you're in town now, have fun figuring it out", this only applies to the very beginning .. once you start working on your second class, you can't just redo all those level 1 mission, it's all up to you.

    Dungeons apparently require a party (I haven't played too much because I'm waiting for P4/early launch).

    I'm just hoping there's some death penalty, because games without just feel like they're trivializing good play.

  • WittenWitten Austin, TXPosts: 48Member
    Originally posted by Murugan
    I wish people who keep saying this game is the same as "all the others" would have showed me a game that had ALL of these things:

     

    • One character=ALL THINGS POSSIBLE (every piece of content, every class/job/any type of progression not just different "specs" you can choose from for your ONE class)
    • FATE like open world system, and LOADS of trinity based party dependent content for both leveling and endgame progression
    • Armory chest to make changing jobs painless/not a complete drain on inventory like well even gearing on single class MMO's can be (first MMO ever 80% + of my inventory space at endgame is not taken up by my gear)
    • Multiple 24 person raid zones, and varied single group endgame (Primals, Dungeons etc.) with many things to progress/do
    • Some kind of Limit Break like party based combat system (EQ2, Vanguard, and other "weakness/sync/symbiotic" etc. half assed ignored features don't count)
    • crafts/gathering professions as separate classes rather than tacked on experiences
    • Beautiful art/graphics
    • A story/setting as good as FFXIV

     

    I would have had something to play in between betas.  Yet all these games: WoW, Rift, GW2, EQ2 that I have played don't really seem to be the exact same experience.  Obviously.

     

    I don't think many people parroting the term on internet forums know what the word clone even means.  To be a clone you have to be the same in every aspect, so obviously this game is not a clone of any game ever.  It is also not a "reskin" (which still wouldn't be a clone) as no other game on the market even has all of FFXIV's features in one package.

     

    Just more buzz words for people to troll with because they don't like a game and for some reason feel the need to justify their hate to everyone so people understand them and more importantly agree with them. 

    sup bro what's good.

    I think I saw you on Marlboro once lololol

  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,066Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nihilist

    I think you are right on all points. After the 1.0 disaster it seems SE's approach is to play it as safely as possible by creating yet another generic wow-clone that is at least decently polished and playable with better graphics.

    The game is getting good traction from the crowd that hops from MMO to MMO, and there is a lot of hunger out there for a new game as there has not been a major MMO release for nearly a year.

    A lot of people are curious to see is SE can really revive a dead game, and how big the PS3 market will be for a wow-clone remains to be seen.

     

    That said you are 100% correct about how people should be concerned about the 3 month exodus. Tons of people have made it to the middle 30s in only a few days of limited beta and that is with a story that stops at lvl 20. Its safe to say loads of people will be maxed and doing raids in under a week.

    If the endgame content isn't extremely good, the exodus will happen and  SE will be scrambling to keep a playerbase by time Wildstar and TESO roll out.

     Agreed.

     

    I also predict mass exodus after 3 months.  IMO FFXIV is just another MMO in a long line of "just another" MMO. 

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • IridescentOrkIridescentOrk Ellicott City, MDPosts: 157Member
    I think the game will do better than Warhammer. But it's not a WoW killer.

    gameplay > graphics

  • ILanedraexIILanedraexI FortalezaPosts: 3Member
    Originally posted by neobahamut20

    First, we must define what a success is. In this case success is attaining or surpassing the goals set by developers and the expectations for the game. The goals are set by the developper, the expectations come from the fans. Final Fantasy fans don't expect a playable game, they expect a new adventure, a ground-breaking innovative game and new game mechanics. Why? Because in the past, that is what Final Fantasy has been all about.

    Since when a Final Fantasy game was about innovation? Only if you think making more than 10 turn based RPGs something creative. FF has innovated very little, maybe with FF Tactics or that other FF game that had classes you could choose (FF3 or 4, can't remember).

    Final Fantasy always was about story (and even then, all stories have a guy who wants to destroy the world). So we played each one of those because we liked what we were getting. Final Fantasy was almost a Call of Duty during most of it's existence, only recently FF has been trying to break it's own formula and that's probably the reason Square Enix is making less money than before.

    Gamers like tradition, it's been proven time and time again, that if you follow a formula you just need to do better at something inside said formula than the other games. You may get more players with turn based rpgs if you put better graphics than the others turn based rpgs, or you may get more players if your quests are more enjoyable than the others MMOs.

    If people really wanted innovation, WoW would've been dead by now, not because it wasn't innovative, no, but because it exists for a really long period of time.

    I've played FFXIV and I would say it hits the mark for a modern succesful MMORPG , it has WoW elements that the people want, it has GW2 elements that people liked and it's inside of a really well stabilished franchise that is Final Fantasy, where you can expect a good story and the other good things FF does.

    It won't be the best game ever, but it's a really solid game and I can speak from my experience (played the betas and V1).

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